Evidence for “a god” at John 10:33

TrueBeliever37 · Aug 4, 2020

YoursTrue said:
The King James Bible for Titus 2:13 says:
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.
American Standard Version has a different take on it:
"looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;"
All things considered, God AND Jesus are mentioned. That's for starters. And King James Bible says "glorious appearing," while ASV says "appearing of the GLORY of the great God AND our Saviour..." Why do you think those ideas in translations differ?

The problem is there are various ways to translate things. And translators always, whether they intend to or not, have a bias in their translations based on their current beliefs.

For instance in the verse you have mentioned above: the Greek word "kai" can be translated as "and" or "even". So that would mean the verse could have been translated "the great God even our Savior". And that would make sense when you consider the next verse Titus 2:14, which said - who gave himself (singular) for us ...

It would also make sense when you consider that YHWH said there was no Savior beside him. Isaiah 43:11

And also when you consider there is only One God. And that One God was said to have been manifest in the flesh.

And Acts 20:28 said - ...feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

YoursTrue · Aug 4, 2020

TrueBeliever37 said:
The problem is there are various ways to translate things. And translators always, whether they intend to or not, have a bias in their translations based on their current beliefs.

Yes, that would be true.

TrueBeliever37 said:
For instance in the verse you have mentioned above: the Greek word

TrueBeliever37 said:
"kai" can be translated as "and" or "even". So that would mean the verse could have been translated "the great God even our Savior". And that would make sense when you consider the next verse Titus 2:14, which said - who gave himself (singular) for us ...

It would also make sense when you consider that YHWH said there was no Savior beside him. Isaiah 43:11

And also when you consider there is only One God. And that One God was said to have been manifest in the flesh.

And Acts 20:28 said - ...feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

I'd have to spend more time looking at those verses because it does not mean or say in every translational ideology that they are one and the same, or that Jesus is one of the persons of a trinity, each and all equal.
In reference to the above quote about Isaiah 43:11, it was written to the Jews who were looking for other sources of help or salvation, Jehovah reminding them who He was, and since the trinity doctrine says there are three persons of God, each and all God, would you say that God sent himself as Messiah? Do they all have blood? Jesus prayed to the Father, asked to go back to the Father. Therefore the statement that there is no savior besides YHWH (Yahweh or Jehovah) and applying that as if Jesus IS Jehovah and one of the persons of the Trinity of equal persons, doesn't make sense. Because as noted, there is God, and there is Jesus, who is in a very powerful position. Thanks for that. (P.S. By the way, hinging on the subject, do you think God in heaven has blood? Do you think any of the three persons have blood in heaven that flow or flowed through their veins?)

Dogknox20 · Aug 4, 2020

YoursTrue said:
Being that you seem to know so much about Arius, I would like to ask you this question about Arius's viewpoint towards Jesus. Do you know if Arius thought or believed that Jesus was the Son of God, and if he thought he had been in heaven before he came to the earth, and went back to heaven again? (Thanks.)

YoursTrue I reply: Yes yes & yes! I believe Arius thought all of those things! FACT: Arius rejecting the Christian teaching of "Jesus is God"! Arius was removed from AMONG Christians just as the scripture Prophesy foretold! (2 Peter 2:1)

My questions to you is... "Did the Jehovah Witness wrongly prophesied the end of the world"?
1889: “The ‘battle of the great day of God almighty’ (Rev. 16:14) which will end in AD 1914 . . . ” (Studies, Vol. 2, 1908 edition, 101).
1891: “With the end of AD 1914, what God calls Babylon, and what men call Christendom, will have passed away, as already shown from prophecy” (Studies, Vol. 3, 153).
1894: “The end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble” (WT Reprints, 1-1-1894, 1605 and 1677).
1916: “The six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th day, the 1000 years of Christ’s reign began in 1873” (Studies, Vol. 2, p. 2 of foreword).
1918: “Therefore, we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the faithful prophets of old” (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 89).
1923: “1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge” (WT, 4-1-1923, 106).
1925: “The year of 1925 is here. . . . Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year” (WT, 1-1-1925, 3).
1939: “The disaster of Armageddon is just ahead” (Salvation, 361).
1941: “Armageddon is surely near . . . soon . . . within a few years” (Children, 10).
1946: “Armageddon . . . should come sometime before 1972” (They Have Found a Faith, 44).
1968: “The end of the six thousand years of man’s history in the fall of 1975 is not tentative, but is accepted as a certain date” (WT, 1-1-1968, 271).

Dogknox20 · Aug 4, 2020

YoursTrue said:
Actually, McKenzie's comment wasn't taken out of context. That he also said in exactitude that "the word was with THE God," shows that he understood the Greek, however later interpolated some of his own proposals for the trinity. That Thomas exclaimed "My Lord and My God" to the resurrected Jesus and Jesus did not correct him does not mean that Jesus believed, knew, or thought he was (is) "the God." He knew he was not. Jesus has been given power and authority. That does not mean he is, or equates himself with the Father. So for Thomas to call him his Lord and his God and for Jesus not to correct him on that matter means that Jesus knew his elevated position as the one given power and authority by his Father, until all has been accomplished according to God, his Father's, will. Jesus did pray, "Let YOUR will be done." And Jesus is accomplishing that will.

Nice try... But in John 20:28 Thomas says to Jesus, “My Lord and my God.” In the original Greek it literally reads, “The Lord of me and the God of me.” It would be nothing short of blasphemy for Jesus not to rebuke Thomas if he was wrong. Jesus instead accepts Thomas’s profession of his identity as God.
The Bible indicates that God alone created the universe (Is. 44:24), and “he that constructed all things is God” (Heb. 3:4). YoursTrue Jesus created the heavens and the earth (Heb. 1:10). This passage by itself proves that Jesus is God, since an Old Testament reference to God (Ps. 102:25-28) is now given to Jesus.

25 In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
26 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
Like clothing you will change them
and they will be discarded.
27 But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.

YoursTrue Jesus knows without any doubt "Worship is ONLY for God!" He told Satan in the desert "Worship God and him ALONE!"
Matthew 28:17
KJ21 And when they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.
CJB When they saw him, they prostrated themselves before him; but some hesitated.
DRA And seeing him they adored: but some doubted.
GW When they saw him, they bowed down in worship, though some had doubts.

YoursTrue · Aug 4, 2020

Dogknox20 said:
YoursTrue I reply: Yes yes & yes! I believe Arius thought all of those things! FACT: Arius rejecting the Christian teaching of "Jesus is God"! Arius was removed from AMONG Christians just as the scripture Prophesy foretold! (2 Peter 2:1)

...

OK, so you say Arius taught that Jesus had a pre-existence to his earthly life, that he died and was resurrected and went back to heaven? And you don't believe that?

YoursTrue · Aug 4, 2020

Dogknox20 said:
Nice try... But in John 20:28 Thomas says to Jesus, “My Lord and my God.” In the original Greek it literally reads, “The Lord of me and the God of me.” It would be nothing short of blasphemy for Jesus not to rebuke Thomas if he was wrong. Jesus instead accepts Thomas’s profession of his identity as God.
The Bible indicates that God alone created the universe (Is. 44:24), and “he that constructed all things is God” (Heb. 3:4). YoursTrue Jesus created the heavens and the earth (Heb. 1:10). This passage by itself proves that Jesus is God, since an Old Testament reference to God (Ps. 102:25-28) is now given to Jesus.

25 In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
26 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
Like clothing you will change them
and they will be discarded.
27 But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.

YoursTrue Jesus knows without any doubt "Worship is ONLY for God!" He told Satan in the desert "Worship God and him ALONE!"
Matthew 28:17
KJ21 And when they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.
CJB When they saw him, they prostrated themselves before him; but some hesitated.
DRA And seeing him they adored: but some doubted.
GW When they saw him, they bowed down in worship, though some had doubts.

Jesus did not deny that Satan was ruler of this world. Plus Jesus said he HAD a God. Therefore ... he was NOT the God that he was talking about. The One greater than he was. He said he also had a God.

YoursTrue · Aug 4, 2020

Dogknox20 said:
YoursTrue I reply: Yes yes & yes! I believe Arius thought all of those things! FACT: Arius rejecting the Christian teaching of "Jesus is God"! Arius was removed from AMONG Christians just as the scripture Prophesy foretold! (2 Peter 2:1)

My questions to you is... "Did the Jehovah Witness wrongly prophesied the end of the world"?
1889: “The ‘battle of the great day of God almighty’ (Rev. 16:14) which will end in AD 1914 . . . ” (Studies, Vol. 2, 1908 edition, 101).
1891: “With the end of AD 1914, what God calls Babylon, and what men call Christendom, will have passed away, as already shown from prophecy” (Studies, Vol. 3, 153).
1894: “The end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble” (WT Reprints, 1-1-1894, 1605 and 1677).
1916: “The six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th day, the 1000 years of Christ’s reign began in 1873” (Studies, Vol. 2, p. 2 of foreword).
1918: “Therefore, we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the faithful prophets of old” (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 89).
1923: “1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge” (WT, 4-1-1923, 106).
1925: “The year of 1925 is here. . . . Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year” (WT, 1-1-1925, 3).
1939: “The disaster of Armageddon is just ahead” (Salvation, 361).
1941: “Armageddon is surely near . . . soon . . . within a few years” (Children, 10).
1946: “Armageddon . . . should come sometime before 1972” (They Have Found a Faith, 44).
1968: “The end of the six thousand years of man’s history in the fall of 1975 is not tentative, but is accepted as a certain date” (WT, 1-1-1968, 271).

Jehovah's Witnesses have not been correct on certain issues, but Jehovah AND Jesus show the way. Perhaps the end is coming soon. Jesus prayed to his God and Father, "Let your kingdom come." So many, many have looked forward to that, and yes, some interpretations were wrong. But! the end is still coming, unless you don't believe that.

Dogknox20 · Aug 4, 2020

YoursTrue said:
OK, so you say Arius taught that Jesus had a pre-existence to his earthly life, that he died and was resurrected and went back to heaven? And you don't believe that?

YoursTrue "I am the Alpha and the Omega"! Jesus always was! Jesus is God! Yes God became flesh he ALWAYS existed!
Yes Jesus died and resurrected; he died and destroyed death on the cross, he rose again and restored life! THINK: No one can die twice! YoursTrue You can't even kill a stinking mangey no good for nothing dog two times, to each is allotted one death! Jesus has been there and done that; he CANNOT die again - It's impossible for Jesus to die a second time! What you have to do is get yourself inside of the RISEN body of Jesus! IF...
YoursTrue if you would be IMMERSED into the risen body of Jesus then you also cannot die, Jesus has died and will not die again! Separate yourself from Jesus and you separate yourself from LIFE ETERNAL! God became man by being born man; you can not die a man if first you are not born a man! THINK: If God just restored life eternal then Satan would say; God was not perfect. God does ALL things perfectly! Man destroyed life by sin so man had to restore life by NOT sinning! The first PERFECT Man Adam sinned by freely choosing to sin Yes YoursTrue The Perfect man Adam made a freewill choice to commit sin! Jesus the second Perfect man choose Not to sin! Jesus DIED but death could not hold Jesus in the tomb because he was without sin: "The wages of sin is death"! Jesus popped up out of the grave as a cork would pop up in a pool of water! Jesus died and rose because he was sinless!
YoursTrue Do you have any sins?! I know I do; I am IMMERSED into the Body of Jesus I am in Jesus and Jesus is in me.. How do I know? I know because I eat his living forever flesh I drink his living life giving blood!
20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

Dogknox20 · Aug 4, 2020

YoursTrue said:
Jesus did not deny that Satan was ruler of this world. Plus Jesus said he HAD a God. Therefore ... he was NOT the God that he was talking about. The One greater than he was. He said he also had a God.

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

TrueBeliever37 · Aug 7, 2020

YoursTrue said:
Yes, that would be true.

I'd have to spend more time looking at those verses because it does not mean or say in every translational ideology that they are one and the same, or that Jesus is one of the persons of a trinity, each and all equal.
In reference to the above quote about Isaiah 43:11, it was written to the Jews who were looking for other sources of help or salvation, Jehovah reminding them who He was, and since the trinity doctrine says there are three persons of God, each and all God, would you say that God sent himself as Messiah? Do they all have blood? Jesus prayed to the Father, asked to go back to the Father. Therefore the statement that there is no savior besides YHWH (Yahweh or Jehovah) and applying that as if Jesus IS Jehovah and one of the persons of the Trinity of equal persons, doesn't make sense. Because as noted, there is God, and there is Jesus, who is in a very powerful position. Thanks for that. (P.S. By the way, hinging on the subject, do you think God in heaven has blood? Do you think any of the three persons have blood in heaven that flow or flowed through their veins?)

As much interaction as we have had, I would have thought you read my posts. I am not trinitarian, so most of your questions don't even apply to me. Because there aren't three persons in heaven, period.

My belief: The Father, the one and only God, is an eternal Spirit, whose name is YHWH. He didn't have blood to shed for man's sins. So he made himself a body to dwell in and sacrifice for man's sin. He called that body his Son, because he was the Father of that body. But it wasn't another person. YHWH was the one dwelling in the body. He had manifest himself in flesh. Once he did the job he came to do, he raised his body up a glorified spiritual body, ascended and took the throne to reign forever.

TrueBeliever37 · Aug 7, 2020

YoursTrue said:
Jesus did not deny that Satan was ruler of this world. Plus Jesus said he HAD a God. Therefore ... he was NOT the God that he was talking about. The One greater than he was. He said he also had a God.

The flesh was not God or it couldn't die, but God was dwelling in that body. It was the body God had chosen to taken on. So the Spirit was the God of that flesh. But once the flesh was sacrificed, the eternal Spirit raised up his temporary fleshly body as a glorified eternal Spiritual body, and ascended and took the throne to reign as God Almighty forever.

YoursTrue · Aug 7, 2020

TrueBeliever37 said:
The flesh was not God or it couldn't die, but God was dwelling in that body. It was the body God had chosen to taken on. So the Spirit was the God of that flesh. But once the flesh was sacrificed, the eternal Spirit raised up his temporary fleshly body as a glorified eternal Spiritual body, and ascended and took the throne to reign as God Almighty forever.

Jesus did not ask the "God within" his fleshly body to save him.
John 12:27 - "Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? 'Father, save me from this hour'? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour."

YoursTrue · Aug 7, 2020

TrueBeliever37 said:
The problem is there are various ways to translate things. And translators always, whether they intend to or not, have a bias in their translations based on their current beliefs.
...

Going back to John 10:33 for a while, Strong's Concordance says that what is generally translated as God (theos, Greek), can also be translated as "a god." Context must play a part in translating, and, since Jesus countered with the fact that his accusers were also called "god," the context of saying Jesus was "a" god is in harmony with the circumstance.
Theos - (a) God, (b) a god, generally. (Strong's)
Jesus did not say he was God, he said he was the SON of God.
John 10:36 - "do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

YoursTrue · Aug 7, 2020

TrueBeliever37 said:
The flesh was not God or it couldn't die, but God was dwelling in that body. It was the body God had chosen to taken on. So the Spirit was the God of that flesh. But once the flesh was sacrificed, the eternal Spirit raised up his temporary fleshly body as a glorified eternal Spiritual body, and ascended and took the throne to reign as God Almighty forever.

God was with Moses and other prophets, but they were not God and had to be in subjection TO God.

TrueBeliever37 · Aug 8, 2020

YoursTrue said:
Going back to John 10:33 for a while, Strong's Concordance says that what is generally translated as God (theos, Greek), can also be translated as "a god." Context must play a part in translating, and, since Jesus countered with the fact that his accusers were also called "god," the context of saying Jesus was "a" god is in harmony with the circumstance.
Theos - (a) God, (b) a god, generally. (Strong's)
Jesus did not say he was God, he said he was the SON of God.
John 10:36 - "do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

Thomas said "the God of me". John 20:28 There are all kinds of places where you could say it could be translated as "a God" per what you say. Such as the verse that says "No man hath seen God at any time". In just a few minutes of looking I found 20-30 places like that. But I know it is referring to the one and only God. Sure there are make believe god's, but there is only One true and living God. So what does it even mean to try to say a God? You have to go out of your way to make him not be God, because there are so many scriptures and so much proof that he is.

You evidently don't really try to understand my posts. The flesh was the Son, and the eternal Spirit dwelling in that flesh was the Father. But it was not two different persons. God appeared in a body. The body was called the Son.

TrueBeliever37 · Aug 8, 2020

YoursTrue said:
God was with Moses and other prophets, but they were not God and had to be in subjection TO God.

There is so much proof that the Messiah was God manifest in the flesh. Here I will give you another one.

The Father judgeth no man but hath committed all judgement unto the Son. John 5:22

Now lets look at Revelation 20:12 where the small and great are standing before God to be judged. The NT says we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Messiah. Romans 14:10-12 It says so then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

And what about this one in Romans 8:9 where it says: if so be the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Messiah, he is none of his.

YoursTrue · Aug 8, 2020

TrueBeliever37 said:
There is so much proof that the Messiah was God manifest in the flesh. Here I will give you another one.

The Father judgeth no man but hath committed all judgement unto the Son. John 5:22

Now lets look at Revelation 20:12 where the small and great are standing before God to be judged. The NT says we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Messiah. Romans 14:10-12 It says so then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

And what about this one in Romans 8:9 where it says: if so be the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Messiah, he is none of his.

Jesus knew he would be the judge of mankind into the resurrection. He was appointed to, given that position by the Father. Those putting faith in Jesus would be in good standing with God. Jesus was resurrected and then went to heaven.

YoursTrue · Aug 8, 2020

TrueBeliever37 said:
As much interaction as we have had, I would have thought you read my posts. I am not trinitarian, so most of your questions don't even apply to me. Because there aren't three persons in heaven, period.

My belief: The Father, the one and only God, is an eternal Spirit, whose name is YHWH. He didn't have blood to shed for man's sins. So he made himself a body to dwell in and sacrifice for man's sin. He called that body his Son, because he was the Father of that body. But it wasn't another person. YHWH was the one dwelling in the body. He had manifest himself in flesh. Once he did the job he came to do, he raised his body up a glorified spiritual body, ascended and took the throne to reign forever.

So sorry, I can't read everything. Thank you for clarifying. You're not a trinitarian, and you don't believe there are three persons in heaven. Anyway, have a good evening.

YoursTrue · Aug 8, 2020

TrueBeliever37 said:
There is so much proof that the Messiah was God manifest in the flesh. Here I will give you another one.

The Father judgeth no man but hath committed all judgement unto the Son. John 5:22

Now lets look at Revelation 20:12 where the small and great are standing before God to be judged. The NT says we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Messiah. Romans 14:10-12 It says so then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

And what about this one in Romans 8:9 where it says: if so be the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Messiah, he is none of his.

Let me ask you a question, since you don't believe in a trinity. Perhaps I will discuss the scriptures you present later. Do you attend church services somewhere? If so, would you feel free to attend a church where a basis for belief is a triune godhead?

YoursTrue · Aug 9, 2020

Dogknox20 said:
YoursTrue "I am the Alpha and the Omega"! Jesus always was! Jesus is God! Yes God became flesh he ALWAYS existed!
Yes Jesus died and resurrected; he died and destroyed death on the cross, he rose again and restored life! THINK: No one can die twice! YoursTrue You can't even kill a stinking mangey no good for nothing dog two times, to each is allotted one death! Jesus has been there and done that; he CANNOT die again - It's impossible for Jesus to die a second time! What you have to do is get yourself inside of the RISEN body of Jesus! IF...
YoursTrue if you would be IMMERSED into the risen body of Jesus then you also cannot die, Jesus has died and will not die again! Separate yourself from Jesus and you separate yourself from LIFE ETERNAL! God became man by being born man; you can not die a man if first you are not born a man! THINK: If God just restored life eternal then Satan would say; God was not perfect. God does ALL things perfectly! Man destroyed life by sin so man had to restore life by NOT sinning! The first PERFECT Man Adam sinned by freely choosing to sin Yes YoursTrue The Perfect man Adam made a freewill choice to commit sin! Jesus the second Perfect man choose Not to sin! Jesus DIED but death could not hold Jesus in the tomb because he was without sin: "The wages of sin is death"! Jesus popped up out of the grave as a cork would pop up in a pool of water! Jesus died and rose because he was sinless!
YoursTrue Do you have any sins?! I know I do; I am IMMERSED into the Body of Jesus I am in Jesus and Jesus is in me.. How do I know? I know because I eat his living forever flesh I drink his living life giving blood!
20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

No one but Jesus was born perfect. Adam was made from the dust without imperfection. Jesus prayed to his heavenly Father. Of course I have sinned, but God forgives me on the basis of my faith in Jesus Christ's shed blood. Also my desire to be faithful to God and his commandments. It is not easy in this world of sin and trouble.
It is good to realize what sin is, and to pray that we are not led into temptation. It is also good to realize that those blessed by God can see a "new heaven and new earth" in which righteousness is to dwell. Revelation 21:1-5.

Evidence for “a god” at John 10:33

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Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

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Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

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Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

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Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)