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Who does not believe in freedom of choice in religion?
- Thread starter Piculet
- Start date
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
In my latest search for an answer to how an atheist would be "judged" if they was to be judged by a God, it would not be from how the believed, but about how morally good they had lived. So not judged by any religious teaching. Only by how they had acted and spoken in life
But I have no idea if God would judge someone who did not believe there is Gods
most lightly only by actin and words.
Pakistan's blasphemy laws call for the death penalty for those criticizing Islam. This is supported by the hardliners in Pakistan and has been used to prosecute anyone who even wants to reform those laws.
Do you consider this to be 'freedom of religion'?
But let's bring it closer to home.
Do you support the right of a Moslem to change their religion to, say Christianity, Judaism, or to become an atheist? What does the Quran say about those doing so?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I picture God and heaven laughingIn my latest search for an answer to how an atheist would be "judged" if they was to be judged by a God, it would not be from how the believed, but about how morally good they had lived. So not judged by any religious teaching. Only by how they had acted and spoken in life
But I have no idea if God would judge someone who did not believe there is Gods
and when the giggles fade......
a good firm slap up side the head
so to speak
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
I heartily believe in it. I just would like that more people would choose "none" of their own accord. They are free to choose it... and even promote it. Just as I am free to inform them exactly why I think they are wrong to do so.
I feel there is a whole realm of complaint from people of "you're infringing on my religious rights" when all the person is doing is criticizing their ideas or calling them out on their BS. Is that really an infringement on your rights? Wouldn't it be more an infringement on someone's rights to try and stifle lines of questioning and attempts to criticize or scrutinize religion?
In the end... I wholeheartedly believe that your religious choice is no better than OPINION. And as such, you should remain free to express your opinion, and I should remain free to express mine.
exchemist
Veteran Member
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I think "Freedom of Religion" in essence means "you are free to choose the (non) Religion you prefer"; it has nothing to do with Criticizing Religions
I think "Freedom of Speech" in essence means "You are free to speak how you feel"; here comes the freedom to criticize
To criticize (non) Faith (meaning belief as in thoughts) of others is rather idiotic in my opinion, as it goes against "Freedom of Religion"
To criticize (non) Faith based actions of others, which are harmful (to others) is good, that has nothing to do with "Freedom of Religion"
I disagree. To critique the beliefs of others is part of the exploration process involved in finding one's own religious beliefs. it is a crucial part of freedom of religion. To find that some religious ideas are harmful or destructive and to be allowed to publicly state such is at the heart of religious freedom.
But, again, if someone is Moslem and decides to convert to Christianity, is that allowed? or is it considered an insult to Islam and held to be worthy of death? What if someone has pagan beliefs? is there freedom to choose and exercise such beliefs?
Piculet
Active Member
I agree, which is why I think proselytising of religion should be permitted in as much as proselytising of atheism is permitted.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
Yes... permitted. Just as criticism of the practice should also be permitted.
To be sure - I don't go out looking for Jehovah's Witnesses going door to door, and try to stop them from doing what they are doing. But I might engage them in conversation, and ask them why it is they are so sure about what they believe, and let them know the reasons I cannot believe what they are peddling. Do you see the difference? They are free to roam the streets - even free to knock on my door. Yet when they do the latter, they can expect to have a staunch opponent to their views and ideas, and a jolly good debate we may have!
They are, of course, free to leave, and stop listening to me at any time, but make no mistake, I reserve my right to target their ideas with my wit, and attempt to rend them to pieces as long as they are there conversing with me. After all... it was they that expected me to listen to them in the first place, was it not?
The UK's Kings of the past. They were very insistent that everyone join their new Anglican church.
Any time the government states it has a religion. Look at the government of Saudi Arabia. Look at China. Yeah, there are a lot of people who don't believe it.
We have to take, to seize that freedom. We have to endure these governments as they come and go.
Piculet
Active Member
Wait — don't you do this? I, btw, think it's okay. Just wondering about your position.
Piculet
Active Member
I don't think it's in the same category as freedom of choice in religion. At the same time everyone has a free will.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I agree "exporation process in finding one's own (non) beliefs" is needed and important
I agree that to be critical towards how others live and do things (beliefs) and not copy all of it blindly, is important in the learning process
Seems I define "freedom of religion" a little different. I can live with that
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
IF a country has "Freedom of Religion" I would think there is no problem, otherwise there would not be "Freedom of Religion"
BUT if a country has a law that prohibits Muslims to convert to Christianity, then I see there no "Freedom of Religion". Just follow Law of country
(And I might try to get out of such a country as fast as possible; I love freedom of thought/Religion; and I find being imposed/forced inhumane)
If a country has a Law allowing to kill those that convert from Islam to Christianity, that country has no "Freedom of Religion"
Unless you consider "Freedom of Religion" to be "All are free to express a Religion (imposed by Law)", so not "free to choose their own religion"
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Freedom of Religion means to me a Pagan is free to choose and exercise his beliefs, unless he goes against the Law in the country
As long as you keep your religion in your mind, then there is no problem. The moment you exhibit, impose or hurt others, then other Laws apply
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Sure, people are free to believe in stupid superstitious things. It is a free world.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Physical torture and loss of community are deep seated terrors for most people. The religions that inculcate those fears into their adherents from childhood prey upon those human vulnerabilities. The condemnations for apostasy are an attempt to abridge free will through coercion and fear under the guise of love.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I don't criticize other's thoughts here
I criticize others who verbally criticize my thoughts
My thoughts/feelings (unexpressed) are personal, none of your (or others) business
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
well, that is not true with Abrahamic religions. Good deeds are not enough to save one from eternal hell.
I do not think atheist proselytize. But they answer when the theists trumpt their religions, its propagators and their books. The theists give them a chance and they do not hold back.
Be careful. The Saudis gave a dissenter an acid bath. Hacking down or shooting down dissenters is so very common, even in court premises, in some countries.
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