RabbiO
הרב יונה בן זכריה
You're leaving the OP to play with himself? Is that proper? Is it even allowed under forum rules? Where is your sense of forum decorum?
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Why Did God Wait?
- Thread starter rrobs
- Start date
You're leaving the OP to play with himself? Is that proper? Is it even allowed under forum rules? Where is your sense of forum decorum?
We understand that sometimes it's the only option people have.
Hmmm. I'm curious then why you wouldn't post this in a DIR. What perspectives from non-believers do you think would help if you aren't wanting to listen to the perspectives of folks outside of the context of your beliefs? Wouldn't you find opinions from your fellow believers more useful for what you're trying to figure out?
eik
Active Member
It wasn't just that Christ had to come. Christ has to come to a nation prepared to receive and believe in him. This entailed coventants in place to lead men to Christ.
Gal 3:24
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.
See also the rest of Gal 3. Mankind had to be made fully aware of the nature of sin, before Christ came, so that mankind could be saved from its sins. Before the law, in times of ignorance, sin is not imputed. Christ did not come to teach children, (i.e. the Israelites prior to the law) but to teach men already versed in theology.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
If you take the ancient Jewish notion of the 'world week', that is the idea that the history of the world was prefigured in the 7 days of creation, with each day being equivalent to 1000 years. The last 1000 years is hinted at in the Sabbath. Then this prophecy is intriguing:
Hosea 6:1-2
“Come, let us return to the Lord;
for he has torn us, that he may heal us;
he has struck us down, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days he will revive us;
on the third day he will raise us up,
that we may live before him.
The Temple was destroyed in the 4th day. The Jewish people were homeless for nearly 2000 years.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
Yeah, his name was Archbishop Ussher. He is often used by fundamentalist to prove the earth is only 6000 years old.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
What law? She was betrothed.
Which law allows a violation of a betrothed?
Knowing very well what four days meant for humans, why did he wait for four?
I can come up with three possible solutions in that context.
~There is the perfect generations option of 14 + 14 + 14 generations to Jesus mentioned early in Matthew. By this argument Matthew claims it takes 42 generations for the Jews to finally have a perfect man: Jesus. If we take Matthew literally, then that was all planned.
~There is the number 4000 which is ten times the number of years that it takes for the iniquity of the Amorites to be filled in Genesis 16:16. Notice it takes 400 years for the iniquity of the Amorites to cause their destruction. The implication is that there is something significant about the 400, so perhaps after 4000 years humanity is near to destruction, rather than merely the Amorites. Something like that...something to do with the 400 x 10. Its a terrible and specious argument but it could provide some link.
~7000 year plan. The 7000 year plan posits that Psalm 90:4 is a hint that the history of the world is meant to be the length of a week with one thousand year long days, because it says "A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night." This is an eschatological argument, and I don't know how to present it.
@rrobs I suggest next time start a fracas like this in biblical debates. That way you can avoid a lot of the less applicable replies.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
How did the Redeemer fail. His job was to come and pay the price for man's sins.
That’s a good question!
But really, whether the Redeemer /Savior / Seed (of Genesis 3:15) came the next day, or eons later, challenges had been raised that needed an answer......
The answer lies in the issues found in Genesis 3:1-6, where God’s Sovereignty was challenged....IOW, can man successfully rule himself, and make his own choices. When A & E chose to disobey, effectively questioning God’s authority and making their own decision, it gave validity to the challenge.
So Jehovah has allowed the time needed to settle the issue..... every form of human government has been tried, and during much of that time, humans have suffered in some way or another.
If you have questions, please ask....it’s nothing I arrived at on my own, only by studying w/ JW’s have I come to some fascinating conclusions and understandings.
But really, whether the Redeemer /Savior / Seed (of Genesis 3:15) came the next day, or eons later, challenges had been raised that needed an answer......
The answer lies in the issues found in Genesis 3:1-6, where God’s Sovereignty was challenged....IOW, can man successfully rule himself, and make his own choices. When A & E chose to disobey, effectively questioning God’s authority and making their own decision, it gave validity to the challenge.
So Jehovah has allowed the time needed to settle the issue..... every form of human government has been tried, and during much of that time, humans have suffered in some way or another.
If you have questions, please ask....it’s nothing I arrived at on my own, only by studying w/ JW’s have I come to some fascinating conclusions and understandings.
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And another thing.....yes, some people have gone through terrible situations. Jehovah God is aware of all we suffer.
You can say “6,000 years of pain is awful!”
But really, for each individual, it’s only been 70-90 years. If someone really went through hard times (say cancer), it’s far less. Only a couple years.
Then, when their life is over I.e., they die, they “RIP” until the Resurrection, promised by our Lord, Jesus, @ John 5:28-29, John 6:44.
When the dead are resurrected back to life on Earth, it will be under the Kingdom rule (Matthew 6:9-10), which will bring blessings like that foretold @ Revelation 21:3-4.
including that at Isaiah 11:6-9, and Isaiah 33:24. (They will be “pardoned for their error.”)
The issue of sovereignty will have been settled, and Jehovah & His Son Jesus will apply the benefits of Jesus’ ransom sacrifice ....sin will be no more. Imperfection and death will be “no more”!
You can say “6,000 years of pain is awful!”
But really, for each individual, it’s only been 70-90 years. If someone really went through hard times (say cancer), it’s far less. Only a couple years.
Then, when their life is over I.e., they die, they “RIP” until the Resurrection, promised by our Lord, Jesus, @ John 5:28-29, John 6:44.
When the dead are resurrected back to life on Earth, it will be under the Kingdom rule (Matthew 6:9-10), which will bring blessings like that foretold @ Revelation 21:3-4.
including that at Isaiah 11:6-9, and Isaiah 33:24. (They will be “pardoned for their error.”)
The issue of sovereignty will have been settled, and Jehovah & His Son Jesus will apply the benefits of Jesus’ ransom sacrifice ....sin will be no more. Imperfection and death will be “no more”!
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
You are born in sin, we are not. We do not need a redeemer.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
What? You are not born in sin? You never put yourself before others? Never was angry? Never wanted revenge? Never took what wasn't yours? Never spent one minute of your life thinking of yourself? Wow... you are the first true saint since Jesus.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
That is not what is understood by 'born in sin'. Of course, I have done things that you mention, but it is your's and mine illusion. In reality all things in the universe, including you and me, are Brahman only, since Brahman has no second. The talk of God and the related things also is an illusion and ignorance.
Jedster
Well-Known Member
PMFJI according to this
2 Peter 3:8 8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the LORD a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
Psalm 90:4 4A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.
So, he only waited 4 days.(He probably had other things to do)
The real riddle is why, knowing exactly what was going to happen, [he] didn't have it all sorted out when [he] made the universe some 13.8 bn years ago, no?
What are omniscience and omnipotence for if not that?
As I said before, it doesn't say "why" - just "in the fulness of time".
Not that it made any difference, everyone before has the same opportunity as did those after.
Honestly not sure what you are asking about "what law?" Can you rephrase or amplify?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I really don't take Adam & Eve to be real people, nor do I believe that only a belief in Jesus can forgive sins.
Ditto, my friend.
rrobs
Well-Known Member
My question is not flawed. It has important meaning for those who want to know the story line of the Bible. It deals with the nature of the main character; was he a man, a god, or a god-man?
Surely you can see that would affect the entire story, whether one believes the story is true or not. It is, after all, a story with a plot, theme, character, setting, and conflict. That much can not be denied.
I don't think you are an idiot. I just assume you've never heard what I said and want to understand.
Here's the info you wanted: https://www.biblechristiansofgod.com/timeline-from-genesis-to-jesus
Take care
rrobs
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info.
I'm all ears: how long did God wait? I'd appreciate scriptures so I can use them to correct other misguided Christians.