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Jesus Said "It Is Finished"
- Thread starter Nova2216
- Start date
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
When one repents of his sins it means he is sorry for his sins and will TRY not to sin again. But no one completely stops sinning. So previous sins may be forgiven but no one is completely dead to sin. Upon baptism, one receives the Holy Spirit which joins with the human spirit to form a new spirit being.
Nova2216
Active Member
I have never said after being saved one never sins.
Anyone who taught that would be wrong.
(Acts 8:22) (1Jn 1:9) (Heb.10:26-31) (2Peter 2:20-22) - says it is possible.
Nova2216
Active Member
Here is what repentance means (Mt. 21:28).
Mt 21:28 ¶ But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. 30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not. 31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
So now I am interested in what happens to those who are saved. Do they go instantly to heaven when they die? So my dear departed grandmother could be looking down rifgt now and watching me? And those who are not saved go immediately to a place where they will be tortured forever? This is all decided in this life? There is no chance to change anything after death?
Nova2216
Active Member
Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. (Rev. 14:13)
Read (Luke 16:19-31)
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
So if you are saved, you will go to Abraham's bosom? Is that another name for heaven?
Nova2216
Active Member
The saved go to paradise (place of disembodied spirits) as (Luke 16:19-31) indicates.
No, Heaven and Abraham's bosom is different.
What Happens When We Die?
What Happens When We Die?
No, Heaven and Abraham's bosom is different.
What Happens When We Die?
What Happens When We Die?
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
I find this is getting more and more interesting. The article mentioned above says that Luke 16:26 shows that our eternal destiny is fixed at death. But that verse simply says that there is a gulf between us. No mention of destiny being fixed. It seems to be a case of putting your own meaning to words. And the Greek word translated as "hell" in 2 Pter 2:4 is talking about a place where angels will be restrained. It does not seem to apply to humans. And the basic question becomes - why would people be judged long after they die if their destiny is fixed at the time of death? A judgement is when quilt or innosence is determined. Jesus is coming back to judge the living and the dead. That is the time when their eternal destiny is determined.
Nova2216
Active Member
Lu 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
Yes I read it and the article you mentioned said that this proves that our destiny is determined at death. I do not see destiny or death mentioned. There is a gulf between us means that we cannot decide to pass from one side to the other. I see no way that " a gulf between us" means "our destiny is determined at death". This is a case of interpreting words to agree with your own beliefs and not basing your beliefs on what the words say.
Nova2216
Active Member
Lu 16:19 ¶ There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
DEATH - 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
thence.
DESTINY - 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Nova2216
Active Member
The text does not address the thoughts of a persons mind, rather the passing from one place to the other.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
People are judged to determine if they are guilty of a crime. Jesus is coming back to judge people which is to determine if they are guilty or not. If the outcome was already decided before they died there would be no reason to determine guilt or innocense. The whole idea of Jesus returning is to judge and determine a person's fate. Not just to repeat something that was decided years before. So apparently my grandmother is not looking down on us but is waiting somewhere to be judged on something that was decided before she died.
Nova2216
Active Member
What we do shows who we serve (Rom. 6:16-18).
16. Decide who to serve.
17. Obey a certain doctrine (Rom. 6:3-6)
18. Being then freed from sin, ye became a servant of righteousness.
Re 14:13 ¶ And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;
In a sense we judge ourselves to be righteous or unrighteous by what we do or do not do (1Jn 2:3-6) (2Thess.1:7-9).
Nova2216
Active Member
In (Luke 16) after death the rich man wants to go back and warn his family members about the torment in which he finds himself. He wants to return to earth and do evangelism work, but it is too late. He is told that is not possible. The rich mans family must listen to the teachers on earth or they will also be lost and find themselves in torment.
... heed to the word of God (Heb. 2:1).
Heb 2:1 ¶ Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. 2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
... heed to the word of God (Heb. 2:1).
Heb 2:1 ¶ Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. 2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
So, let's get back to my grandmother. Let's assume that she believed in Jesus and was baptized and led a good honest life. Is she able to look down and watch us right now? Or is she in some kind of limbo or purgatory situation where she is waiting for it to be decided where she will spend eternity? Or something else? Where do we spend the time waiting for Jesus to come back and judge us?
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
2 Co 5:10 sounds like we are judged according to the good or bad things we have done. If we have done good things, we do not need to believe in Jesus or be baptized. We are judged by works and not by faith.
Nova2216
Active Member
Nova2216
Active Member
"Led a good and honest life" - You say.
Are you implying she had something to do?