• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The LORD is my shepherd

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I hope you have been enlightened Deeje?

I was enlightened a long time ago....and none of your beliefs are held by me. So I have no idea how a person with no brotherhood can enlighten anyone except to render his opinion as to what he believes the scriptures say......your opinion is duly noted.....and dismissed. Sorry.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
I was enlightened a long time ago....and none of your beliefs are held by me. So I have no idea how a person with no brotherhood can enlighten anyone except to render his opinion as to what he believes the scriptures say......your opinion is duly noted.....and dismissed. Sorry.

I realise that the truth can never be revealed to the obedient servants of the church, which sits on the seven hills of Rome and whose denominational daughters, who were spawned from her false doctrines have broken away from their mother body in order to create families of their own.

I wonder, would you kiss the ring of the pope who claims to be Christ in the flesh, who the Lord God our savior, who filled the man Jesus with his spirt, raised up in the Land after he had been paid the majestic wage of thirty pieces of silver, as reveal in Zechariah 11: 12-17. See the New World Translation.

What a pity that you are too afraid to eat the spiritual food that your mother body has declared to be poison, and has not included in her limited canon of holy scriptures. No wonder her descendants are so mentally malnourished.

Bye, bye for now Deeje.
 
Last edited:

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Hosea 13:4...
“But I am Jehovah your God from* the land of Egypt;
You knew no God except me,
And besides me there is no savior.”


Isaiah 43:11.....
“I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.”

Isaiah 45:21-22...
“Make your report, present your case.
Let them consult together in unity.
Who foretold this long ago
And declared it from times past?
Is it not I, Jehovah?
There is no other God but me;
A righteous God and a Savior, there is none besides me.”


In what capacity was Jehovah a Savior to Israel? How often had he “saved” them from many situations? Israel well knew their God as a Savior......but in sending Jesus as Redeemer, he also acted as a Savior.....this time in a more spiritual capacity, by the mission of a physical “servant” who carried out his Father’s instructions to the letter.

Had God acted as a Savior in the past by sending one in physical form?
Judges 3:15...
“Then the Israelites called to Jehovah for help, so Jehovah raised up for them a savior, Eʹhud the son of Geʹra....”

You dwell on words without deeper study. You know what you know, but it is confined to your own narrow view IMO.



You can see that this statement is clearly not true. God can send a Savior who acts on his behalf. He remains the principle Savior, but it does not detract from the faithful actions of the one “sent” in carrying out his instructions. Like Ehud, Jesus had to obey his God’s instructions and carry out his very important role as redeemer. What is a redeemer?

If Jesus was God, why did he need to do his Father’s will, which we know could be different to his own will. (Matthew 26:39)

Why was Jesus called God’s “servant”? How can God be his own servant?



If you know what the Kingdom of God is, are you not under obligation from Christ to preach it in company with your brotherhood? (Matthew 10:11-15)
This commIssion was given to all of Christ’s disciples......and it wasn’t an option, it was a command. (Matthew 28:19-20) It was organised, and the disciples had one united message, not a range of personal interpretations.

So.....what is the message that we are we to preach?

If the Kingdom is to “come”, how does it do that?

Who are the “elect”, and what will they do in heaven?

If the kingdom is in heaven, what is established on earth?

How would you answer?

You have quoted scriptures that clearly state that God is the one and only Saviour from sin and death.

The foreshadowing of God's salvation is found in the 'types' of the Hebrew Scriptures, such as Ehud. But, you and I know that Ehud was not the one and only saviour from sin and death! Ehud was a man and a sinner, not capable of saving mankind from sin and death.

Jesus lived his first thirty years under the law, following the law righteously. Yet, he did not demonstrate the power of God. His anointing as Messiah brought upon him the Holy Spirit, which is God's Spirit (God coming to earth to dwell in a vessel of his own making). Jesus, the vessel, did not pre-exist. He was born. The Spirit of God that descended at baptism is the Spirit that pre-existed and proceeded from the Father, and remained upon Jesus until crucifixion. The Spirit left Jesus Christ temporarily while he bore the sin of mankind. The Spirit of God returned to raise Jesus Christ from the dead. Once raised, Jesus Christ is not only our Saviour, but our Lord and God.

I can understand why JWs and most Jews think alike about Jesus Christ. He has become a stumbling block to belief because it seems impossible that Almighty God, the very God who created the heavens and earth, could possibly come to earth to dwell amongst men. But He has! Coming to earth does not divide the one Spirit, so when the Son comes to dwell on earth, the Father remains in heaven.

The Holy Spirit that fell at Pentecost is the same Spirit that descended upon Jesus at his baptism. The difference is that the one Spirit is now given 'by measure' to a host of believers, not concentrated within one individual, Jesus Christ. The body of Christ is one body; a head and body united as one in Spirit.

You ask about preaching. The message that I preach is straight forward. The king has come, and the kingdom of God is, therefore, present amongst those who recognise and follow Jesus Christ. This is a spiritual kingdom that is constantly growing in size, but it remains spiritual and unseen. The Holy Spirit is the seal of those who belong to the kingdom of God. Unless a person repents, believes and receives the baptism of Christ they cannot count themselves amongst the saved. And accepting Christ as Saviour is just the beginning of a process of glorification, which can be undone, IMO, by backtracking. Only at the return of Christ, or our life's end, is the race complete.

As you know, Jesus taught his disciples to pray, 'Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.' From this we know that God's kingdom already exists in heaven. The Jews have always known this, and have worshipped the king of heaven! But what's new is that the kingdom has come to earth. How can this be unless the king Himself has come to earth to make the kingdom a reality? Jesus Christ made Himself known as the prince and heir, and having received anointing as king, he gathers His flock before returning a second time, as King of Kings to Judge.
 
Last edited:

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
We do not believe that God was “in Christ” the way you suggest.
God’s spirit directed everything Jesus did and taught. His personal communication with his Father was direct because he was sinless, there was no barrier.

What you say here is crucial in determining whether God came to earth.

Would Jesus have been able to communicate freely, as one, with his Father, had he not received the Spirit of his Father? The knowledge that God provides is always transmitted through the Holy Spirit to the mind (soul) of the human recipient. Without the Holy Spirit there is no spiritual channel of communication. This is why all prophets were reliant on God 'coming upon' them with his Holy Spirit - and many trained (fasting, physical hardship etc) for such encounters.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
What you say here is crucial in determining whether God came to earth.

Would Jesus have been able to communicate freely, as one, with his Father, had he not received the Spirit of his Father? The knowledge that God provides is always transmitted through the Holy Spirit to the mind (soul) of the human recipient. Without the Holy Spirit there is no spiritual channel of communication. This is why all prophets were reliant on God 'coming upon' them with his Holy Spirit - and many trained (fasting, physical hardship etc) for such encounters.

The Holy Spirit that fell at Pentecost is the same Spirit that descended upon Jesus at his baptism, and the same Holy Spirit with which Zechariah was filled at the time of the birth of his son John, almost 12 months before the birth of Jesus. See Luke 1: 67.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Jesus is not the LORD; he's the Lord. That's because the Lord is both man and God. The LORD is not man. David's Lord is Jesus Christ. And since David serves the Lord, we should do the same. Jesus Christ is become OUR Lord and God.

Not according to gospel writer John at Revelation 3:12.
The resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him.
Jesus did Not appear in front of himself according to Hebrews 9:24
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The qualifier is that one accepts scripture as inspired.
God is Holy Spirit [John 4:24]
God is one [Deut. 6:4]
The Holy Spirit is one Spirit [Ephesians 4:6] ...............].

God sends forth His holy spirit - Psalms 104:30.
God sends "IT" ( His spirit ) - Numbers 11:17,25; Romans 8:16,26.
(Newer versions changed "IT" to him to try to make a neuter "IT" into Not being a neuter "IT")
We can receive the 'spirit ' which is of God- 1 Corinthians 2:12
God uses his sent spirit "IT" as a helper for us to learn spiritual, biblical matters.

Psalms 110 is inspired.
The two (2) separate LORD/ Lords shows two (2) separate persons Not one.
KJV LORD in all Upper-Case Letters is where the Tetragrammaton (YHWH ) stands.
Lord in some lower-case letters stands for Lord Jesus (No Tetragrammaton )
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I've followed your responses to other well meaning people, as well as my own throughout this thread. My last response to you was very clear, and yet you still choose to avoid acknowledging clear biblical scripture, by changing the subject entirely. Therefore you are showing me that you are not worthy of my time, since there are sincere people still looking for the the truth that our Christ Jesus spoke of.
I have an in-law that uses diversion tactics to try to change the subject or topic at hand so as Not to address what is being discussed.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I have said all I need to say @Redemptionsong...you are entitled to your view but you have no brotherhood who shares your views otherwise you would be worshipping God in company with them in complete agreement. (1 Corinthians 1:10) But you continue to worship Jesus as God which is blasphemy to us. Your choice......your outcome.

It is just rehashing now.....

Peace.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
I have said all I need to say @Redemptionsong...you are entitled to your view but you have no brotherhood , who shares your views otherwise you would be worshipping God in company with them in complete agreement. (1 Corinthians 1:10) But you continue to worship Jesus as God which is blasphemy to us. Your choice......your outcome.

It is just rehashing now.....

Peace.
I have said all I need to say @Redemptionsong...you are entitled to your view but you have no brotherhood who shares your views otherwise you would be worshipping God in company with them in complete agreement. (1 Corinthians 1:10) But you continue to worship Jesus as God which is blasphemy to us. Your choice......your outcome.

It is just rehashing now.....

Peace.

Which brotherhood, did the man Jesus belong to, apart from his disciples and those who were to later believe in his new teachings, which were not those of the Jewish church into which he had been born?
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
The Holy Spirit that fell at Pentecost is the same Spirit that descended upon Jesus at his baptism, and the same Holy Spirit with which Zechariah was filled at the time of the birth of his son John, almost 12 months before the birth of Jesus. See Luke 1: 67.

The Holy Spirit is one and the same, l agree. The difference must, therefore, be the condition of the vessel and the purpose of the Spirit's coming.

The prophets of old, including John the Baptist, lived under old covenant conditions. They received the Spirit by measure for the purpose of speaking God's message and doing God's will.

Those who received the baptism of Jesus Christ, from the day of Pentecost onwards, received the Spirit under new conditions. Let's not forget that all believers under the new covenant are sinners justified through faith in Jesus Christ. As a believer walks by faith, he also walks by the Spirit of Christ.

The vessel under the new covenant is different because the conditions are different. The Holy Spirit, however, remains the one Spirit of God.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Which brotherhood, did the man Jesus belong to, apart from his disciples and those who were to later believe in his new teachings, which were not those of the Jewish church into which he had been born?
I sometime wonder what on earth you have been led to believe when I read replies like this.....

Jesus was Jewish. He lived and died as a Jew. He was sent to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" because their shepherds were neglecting them. The Jewish religious leaders had lost the plot, teaching the commands of men as doctrines. (Matthew 15:7-9)

Jesus led those sheep out of that corrupt system and into new pasture. He did not come to establish a new religion but to inaugurate a new covenant. That brotherhood would serve Jesus on earth by continuing what he started. But they too would be infiltrated by "wolves in sheep's clothing", and not until Christ's "parousia" would truth again be established and the "doing" of God's will on earth would again be seen by Christ's true disciples. (Matthew 24:3-14; Matthew 7:21-23)
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Not according to gospel writer John at Revelation 3:12.
The resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him.
Jesus did Not appear in front of himself according to Hebrews 9:24


The scriptures indicate that Jesus Christ is BOTH man and God. Jesus was made 'a little lower than the angels' and he received the Spirit of God at baptism.

Jump to Revelation. The soul of Jesus was resurrected in a new body, and with the Spirit of God. He is a unique being. His Father is all Spirit, but the Word is now united with the soul of a resurrected Jesus Christ.

Revelation 3:12.'Him [the believer] that overcometh will I [the angel Spirit sent by God to speak to the church, see Rev.1:1] make a pillar in the temple of my God [Jesus Christ], and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God [Jesus Christ], which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God [Jesus Christ]: and I will write upon him my new name.'

To confirm that every mention of 'my God' in this passage is a mention of Jesus Christ, one only has to check out the corresponding scriptures.
Galatians 2:9 refers to Cephas, James and John as 'pillars' of the Church, the body of Christ. They saw the same grace in Paul. We know, therefore, that the temple of Revelation 3:12 is the Church, the body of Christ. Whose name is written upon those in the body of Christ? Simple answer, Christ's name!

Now look at Revelation 21:2. This is about the 'new Jerusalem'. It says, 'And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.' This bride is the Church, the body of Christ!

When you link all the scriptures together, it is clear to see that Jesus Christ is MY GOD.
 
Last edited:

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
The scriptures indicate that Jesus Christ is BOTH man and God. Jesus was made 'a little lower than the angels' and he received the Spirit of God at baptism.

Jump to Revelation. The soul of Jesus was resurrected in a new body, and with the Spirit of God. He is a unique being. His Father is all Spirit, but the Word is now united with the soul of a resurrected Jesus Christ.

Revelation 3:12.'Him [the believer] that overcometh will I [the angel Spirit sent by God to speak to the church, see Rev.1:1] make a pillar in the temple of my God [Jesus Christ], and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God [Jesus Christ], which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God [Jesus Christ]: and I will write upon him my new name.'

To confirm that every mention of 'my God' in this passage is a mention of Jesus Christ, one only has to check out the corresponding scriptures.
Galatians 2:9 refers to Cephas, James and John as 'pillars' of the Church, the body of Christ. They saw the same grace in Paul. We know, therefore, that the temple of Revelation 3:12 is the Church, the body of Christ. Whose name is written upon those in the body of Christ? Simple answer, Christ's name!

Now look at Revelation 21:2. This is about the 'new Jerusalem'. It says, 'And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.' This bride is the Church, the body of Christ!

When you link all the scriptures together, it is clear to see that Jesus Christ is MY GOD.

Jesus, in who were the spirits of the righteous who had been gathered to the bosom of Abraham, was resurrected on the first day after the weekly Sabbath that followed the Passover, which is the festival of “First Fruits,” HE was not the first fruit (Singular) but the FIRST FRUITS (Plural) to be harvested from the body of mankind. He was the first of many brothers and sisters, who are to be conformed to the glorious image of God’s only begotten Son, who is the Spirit, that according to our concept of one direction linear time, is still currently developing within the pregnant androgynous body of mankind=Eve, HE who is to crush the head of our adversary, and who pays the penalty for the sins of the body in which he develops.

John 1: 12/13; “But as many as received him, (The Light of Man) to them gave he the power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name [I Am Who I Am].”

And they, like our brother Jesus, who was the first born of the sons of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, are born sons of God, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but by the Spirit of the Lord, which descended upon the man Jesus in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say: “You are my son, today I have begotten thee.” [My chosen Heir and Successor.]

Jesus, is the first to win the victory and to receive a share of the glorious immortal body of light, which is that of our heavenly saviour, which body of light was torn asunder and poured out as fire on the heads of all those who believed his words as spoken through his servant "Jesus" for our salvation.

In his new glorious body of brilliant and blinding light, He, on the road to Damascus, answered Saul's question, "Who are you Lord?" with these words, "I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you persecute,"

Acts 3: 13; for the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our ancestors has given divine glory to his servant Jesus.

Jesus, your brother, was given divine glory and now sits in the throne of our Father, and all the chosen ones who have born the image of the first Adam, shall also bear the IMAGE of the glorified Jesus, "The Second Adam," (in the eternal process of change/evolution, for mankind does not close the chapter in the book of evolution) a new creation of bodies of Glorious and blinding Light which is the new Temple of your Lord that is to replace God’s old tabernacle =temporary tent (Mankind) as the ruler on this earth of all creation.

First, "MAN" (man (אנושׁ : 'enosh') in English, mortal human beings) was created a little lower than the angels, then he is crowned with glory and all creation is placed beneath his feet. All creation is placed beneath the feet of MAN (man (אנושׁ : 'enosh) in English, mortal human beings) WHO IS CROWNED WITH GLORY.

We have not yet seen this happen. But we have seen Jesus, the first born from the dead, who has won the victory and was given divine glory by your heavenly Father and saviour, and is now incontestably divine and sits in the heavenly throne of Godhead: and who, in Revelation 3: 21; invites those, who win the victory also, to sit with him in your Father’s throne of Godhead within the creation. And all creation Visible and invisible, which, according to Paul, includes even the angels, will bow at their feet.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
God sends forth His holy spirit - Psalms 104:30.
God sends "IT" ( His spirit ) - Numbers 11:17,25; Romans 8:16,26.
(Newer versions changed "IT" to him to try to make a neuter "IT" into Not being a neuter "IT")
We can receive the 'spirit ' which is of God- 1 Corinthians 2:12
God uses his sent spirit "IT" as a helper for us to learn spiritual, biblical matters.

Psalms 110 is inspired.
The two (2) separate LORD/ Lords shows two (2) separate persons Not one.
KJV LORD in all Upper-Case Letters is where the Tetragrammaton (YHWH ) stands.
Lord in some lower-case letters stands for Lord Jesus (No Tetragrammaton )

The neutral gender of Spirit is beyond dispute. The active will of the Spirit to communicate is also without question a reality. How else would a prophet hear the voice of God except through his spirit? We are also told that the Holy Spirit will bring to memory the words of Jesus. An impersonal 'force' is not capable of willing anything!
John 14:26. 'But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.'

You might prefer to say that 'it' will 'teach you', and 'bring to your remembrance', but I fully understand why a translator would prefer that a living and active Spirit be called 'he'!

As regards Psalm 110, I am quite happy to accept that the Spirit of the Son is subordinated to the Father. This is because the Spirit of God lives in a body with a soul and spirit of it's own [Jesus Christ]!

The Lord is the mediator, a unique individual who stands between God and men. This unique individual is the one that has been designated YOUR LORD AND GOD! Read Daniel 7:14 again!
 
Last edited:

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
I find Jesus places witnesses on Earth at our time frame - Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8; Matthew 28:18-20.

Of course. But notice that these witnesses are all born again of the Spirit of God! Notice that Jesus says, 'All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.' [Matthew 28:18]

Who do you serve? 'Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve'.

At some point, you'll have to decide whether Jesus Christ is worthy of your service.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
I have said all I need to say @Redemptionsong...you are entitled to your view but you have no brotherhood who shares your views otherwise you would be worshipping God in company with them in complete agreement. (1 Corinthians 1:10) But you continue to worship Jesus as God which is blasphemy to us. Your choice......your outcome.

It is just rehashing now.....

Peace.

Deeje, you're now making false accusations against me. I do worship with other born again believers, and together we share the same core beliefs. The belief that Jesus Christ is 'My Lord and God' is actually quite common amongst 'Pentecostal' types such as myself!

You say that you do not serve Jesus Christ, and that Jesus Christ is not worthy to be worshipped. I disagree strongly, and I believe that the power that accompanies the Holy Spirit will not be found in churches where the Son is not honoured as the Father!

It's been good chatting. I hope you'll think more about the logic of the syllogism presented in the OP!
 
Last edited:

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
I have an in-law that uses diversion tactics to try to change the subject or topic at hand so as Not to address what is being discussed.

This is not a just accusation. I have not intentionally avoided any question posed. Unfortunately, many of the posts contain multiple questions and it's not easy to address them all.

If you want me to attempt to answer specific questions, then please ask them one at a time!
 
Last edited:

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Jesus, in who were the spirits of the righteous who had been gathered to the bosom of Abraham, was resurrected on the first day after the weekly Sabbath that followed the Passover, which is the festival of “First Fruits,” HE was not the first fruit (Singular) but the FIRST FRUITS (Plural) to be harvested from the body of mankind. He was the first of many brothers and sisters, who are to be conformed to the glorious image of God’s only begotten Son, who is the Spirit, that according to our concept of one direction linear time, is still currently developing within the pregnant androgynous body of mankind=Eve, HE who is to crush the head of our adversary, and who pays the penalty for the sins of the body in which he develops.

John 1: 12/13; “But as many as received him, (The Light of Man) to them gave he the power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name [I Am Who I Am].”

And they, like our brother Jesus, who was the first born of the sons of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, are born sons of God, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but by the Spirit of the Lord, which descended upon the man Jesus in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say: “You are my son, today I have begotten thee.” [My chosen Heir and Successor.]

Jesus, is the first to win the victory and to receive a share of the glorious immortal body of light, which is that of our heavenly saviour, which body of light was torn asunder and poured out as fire on the heads of all those who believed his words as spoken through his servant "Jesus" for our salvation.

In his new glorious body of brilliant and blinding light, He, on the road to Damascus, answered Saul's question, "Who are you Lord?" with these words, "I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you persecute,"

Acts 3: 13; for the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our ancestors has given divine glory to his servant Jesus.

Jesus, your brother, was given divine glory and now sits in the throne of our Father, and all the chosen ones who have born the image of the first Adam, shall also bear the IMAGE of the glorified Jesus, "The Second Adam," (in the eternal process of change/evolution, for mankind does not close the chapter in the book of evolution) a new creation of bodies of Glorious and blinding Light which is the new Temple of your Lord that is to replace God’s old tabernacle =temporary tent (Mankind) as the ruler on this earth of all creation.

First, "MAN" (man (אנושׁ : 'enosh') in English, mortal human beings) was created a little lower than the angels, then he is crowned with glory and all creation is placed beneath his feet. All creation is placed beneath the feet of MAN (man (אנושׁ : 'enosh) in English, mortal human beings) WHO IS CROWNED WITH GLORY.

We have not yet seen this happen. But we have seen Jesus, the first born from the dead, who has won the victory and was given divine glory by your heavenly Father and saviour, and is now incontestably divine and sits in the heavenly throne of Godhead: and who, in Revelation 3: 21; invites those, who win the victory also, to sit with him in your Father’s throne of Godhead within the creation. And all creation Visible and invisible, which, according to Paul, includes even the angels, will bow at their feet.

I get as far as the first paragraph and I am already in disagreement!

Jesus Christ was the first fruits of the harvest [1 Corinthians 15:23] but also the 'firstfruit' [Read Romans 11:16]

Then I read John 1:12, which you interpret as referring to 'I am who I am'. Why do you not see this as referring to Jesus Christ? To 'as many as received him' the name by which he is known is Jesus Christ [or Hebrew equivalent]. Jesus Christ is the 'countenance', or glory of God.
 
Top