• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Do you want Real Truth or convenient Truth?

Choose the responses that apply to you now (multiple allowed, change choice any time)

  • 01: I dare to reject the verse from my own Scripture (if my conscience tells me)

  • 02: I dare to reject the verse from other's Scripture (if my conscience tells me)

  • 03: I have rejected 1 or more verses from my own Scripture

  • 04: I have rejected 1 or more verses from other's Scripture

  • 05: I would not dare to say NO to God, if He told me something personally

  • 06: I would say NO to God, if what He tells me goes against my Conscience

  • 07) I never go against my Conscience

  • 08) I do go against my Conscience sometimes

  • 09) I do go against my Conscience, and feel not bad about it

  • 10) For me it's a challenge in life to purify and follow my Conscience


Results are only viewable after voting.

frbnsn

Member
* What is the Real Truth?
* How do we know if something is the real truth?
* Do you have the guts to reject verses from your Master/Scriptures if they feels wrong?
* Can we rely on our Conscience to know if something is true, and is Conscience sufficient to know The Truth?

Some Truth can be easily proven by Science. When it comes to Spirituality, Science is not always the way to find the answers.
So how do we know if something is true or what is "The Truth"

*) My Master has told us, that we should even reject His statements if they do not correspond to our Conscience. Of course we have to stay vigilent and be willing to accept them again afterwards, IF it turns out that our conscience was wrong, when we rejected them.

*) To reject verses that feel wrong to you, is also advised by the Yoga Vasistha, an Indian Scripture, which I like, because of this honesty (to value our Conscience)

Please feel free to share your views on this or related things. Do you dare to reject verses from your Scripture or Master (Jesus, Boeddha, Shiva, Allah, God....) if they feel bad? Do you rather play safe and skip those? Or do you dare to challenge God and Scriptures, or are you scared to challenge them. Do you fear to be thrown in Hell when rejecting 1 or more verses from your Scripture(s)?
while creating human, some abilities (mind, intuition, conscience ... etc) in him/her; we can understand this with our experience by reading life.
God, all the Scriptures, the heroes we call the propheties, are calling us to use these natural abilities.
So I believe Truth in you!
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
See above for an example of who usefulness, in that context, isn't a subjective critieria.

You are aware that science is prescriptive in that you ought to do as other humans do in order for you to do science. That is subjective. That it is useful for you when you use the word "science" to do as other humans do, is subjective because it is useful to you.
The actual criteria in science are objective, but you follow them, because that is subjectively useful to you.

Any context of usefulness is subjective.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Indeed, if you strongly believe in complete idiocy that makes you an idiot in that specific circumstances.
But who decides what is or is not.... idiocy?

If you believe someone has magical power to cure people by the power of touch and faith, you are an idiot.
So you've never been healed by a healer...... have you ever investigated healing and healers or are you just repeating an indoctrination?
In 1972 I took my very sick wife to Harry Edwards of Leatherhead, England. She did not have any more grand mal seizures for a couple of years (previously every day) and when they restarted I went back to Leatherhead to discover that Harry had just died. Most strange events.

I had healing on Monday 16th October 2017 at a Spiritualist church in Whitstable, England, and two days later at 11am my wife and I heard from the specialist that all my cancer tests (11) had come back negative. He (and I) expected a quite different result.
But the crazy thing is, after having the most dreadful knee problems for over 40 years (couldn't kneel, stand up on my bike pedals, climb steps, etc) after 16/10/17' my blooming knees cleared up. I can kneel, stand up on my bike pedals, the lot.
That Xmas I confided in a close friend about all this. He contacted the next spring because his mother-in-law had been diagnosed with a brain tumour and he wondered if a visit to see this healer might comfort her a bit. She went to this healer. A few months later I asked my friend about his mother-in-law's brain tumour and he replied, 'Oh that.....' that it had just gone away.... or something.

I'm not quite so quick to wave the 'idiot' flag at anybody these days.

If you think you can knock out someone in fight by shouting at them and without touching them, you are an idiot. The only way people fall for those things is because they are taken by those excellent liars (who don't always know they are liars) at a moment of vulnerability, with the help of peer pressure and are kept in the dark by their guru who will discourage all form of skeptical inquiries.
Nope. A person who believes in something that is untrue is NOT A LIAR! :)


Some people are devious enough to make a fool out of others around them. That's what those guru did.
I don't know. Never heard of that kind of thing.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So they exist in non-reality? How does non-reality interact with reality?
Like Sherlock and Mickey they have no objective existence. But roughly like you can draw Sherlock and Mickey on your sketchpad, so you can have the concept of Sherlock and Mickey in your brain ─ which like the sketchpad is entirely physical.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Like Sherlock and Mickey they have no objective existence. But roughly like you can draw Sherlock and Mickey on your sketchpad, so you can have the concept of Sherlock and Mickey in your brain ─ which like the sketchpad is entirely physical.

So there is physical, yet not objective existence? How does that work?
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So there is physical, yet not objective existence? How does that work?
Do you think a drawing of Mickey portrays a real creature?

Do you think a drawing of Sherlock portrays a real human?

Well they don't. They portray concepts of imaginary beings, beings with no objective existence.

Do you think that justice has objective existence? It doesn't. It too is a concept, an abstraction derived from real examples that we onlookers agree are each examples of a just (or unjust) procedure or outcome ─ the examples are real but the abstraction is not. Like the number 2, justice is not a thing but an idea.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Do you think a drawing of Mickey portrays a real creature?

Do you think a drawing of Sherlock portrays a real human?

Well they don't. They portray concepts of imaginary beings, beings with no objective existence.

Do you think that justice has objective existence? It doesn't. It too is a concept, an abstraction derived from real examples that we onlookers agree are each examples of a just (or unjust) procedure or outcome ─ the examples are real but the abstraction is not.

So if the abstraction is not real and has no objective existence, how can we talk about it with words/signs that there are represent on real things; computer monitor.
How can the unreal have a physical representation on something, which is objective?
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Okay, I will try to answer from within the tradition I am a part of, skepticism.
Thanks a lot for your fantastic reply. I liked all of your lines.:)
Skepticism sounds not positive to me, but I like how you phrased it:)
You not only tried but also succeeded to make it very clear (at least to me):)

As for your 2 first ones, the answer is that as a relative conditional truth there is no Real Truth.
It means that in principle you can know Real Truth, but then you are God. If you are not God, you have no access to Real Truth
I came to this conclusion also.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Thanks a lot for your fantastic reply. I liked all of your lines.:)
Skepticism sounds not positive to me, but I like how you phrased it:)
You not only tried but also succeeded to make it very clear (at least to me):)
...

Well, skepticism is a negative in that it marks a limit to understanding, making sense of, knowledge of and so on the world. For the positive you need positive beliefs and you won't find them in skepticism unless you go total non-committal being. I.e. skepticism in that sense is a bit like some forms of Eastern thoughts.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So if the abstraction is not real and has no objective existence, how can we talk about it with words/signs that there are represent on real things; computer monitor.
No, the abstraction is real ─ a particular set of brain states ─ but its contents have no objective existence.

(That's the sense in which it's analogous to a drawing of Mickey or Sherlock.)
How can the unreal have a physical representation on something, which is objective?
There are, I think, two and only two ways in which something can exist. First, the Kremlin can exist both as a building with objective existence, and as a concept in a brain. If the brain dies, that won't affect the real Kremlin. Second, the number 2 can exist as a concept in an individual brain; but search the universe and you won't find an uninstantiated 2 in the wild, because it's an abstraction.
 

idea

Question Everything
As a Christian, I have never found the teachings of Christ as something I ever needed to reject.....it all made perfect sense to me. It creates no hardship whatsoever to me.



It is my personal belief that God is choosing us as much as we are choosing him.
Jesus said “you will know the truth and the truth will set you free”....since no one can come to that truth on their own, it is God who grants access to himself through the teachings of his son. (John 6:44; 65)

If we beg to differ with God, no invitation will be issued. All he has ever asked of his human servants is their obedience out of love and loyalty for who he is, and a sound respect for his wisdom which is so vastly superior to our own. His love shines through in all his creation.

The trouble comes in knowing God's will. Do you rely on the Bible alone? Everyone interprets it differently. Do you rely on one Denomination or some leader? Do not rely on arms of flesh. Do you rely on personal revelation? The devils appears as an angel of light and deceives many... I don't trust any claiming they follow God... I do not see anyone as following God, only those who justify and try to give power to their personal opinions by tacking on "this is what God commands". It is not what God commands of course, it is what that person would like God to command. We all only really follow our own conscience.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
while creating human, some abilities (mind, intuition, conscience ... etc) in him/her; we can understand this with our experience by reading life.
God, all the Scriptures, the heroes we call the propheties, are calling us to use these natural abilities.
So I believe Truth in you
!
Thanks. Interesting, when doing some more introspection

We say "my abilities", so the abilities are different from "who I am".
So, "I" seems to be the Master, more powerful than "I's abilities"
Does "I" need "it's abilities" to figure out Truth?

Or is the trick to realize that "I's abilities" are an obstruction for "I" to know the Truth?
Because the Scriptures do declare "in silence (mind) truth can be found"
Indicating that the mind, which is an ability, seems to be an obstruction
So, if the mind is an obstruction, then why not the other abilities?

Especially considering the advice of some of the Wise to say no to special abilities
because according to them, they are an obstruction in realizing the Truth
(Abilities like clairvoyance, clairaudience, clairsentience...)
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So the non-objective exists?
Yes, of course, but only in the forms created by individual brains. The non-objective exists, in other words (and only exists) as concepts, or things imagined, by the individual, that have no objective counterpart ─ such as Sherlock, Mickey, justice and 2.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Yes, of course, but only in the forms created by individual brains. The non-objective exists, in other words (and only exists) as concepts, or things imagined, by the individual, that have no objective counterpart ─ such as Sherlock, Mickey, justice and 2.

So how do something objective and physical cause the non-objective and physical?
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I.e. skepticism in that sense is a bit like some forms of Eastern thoughts.
Probably that's why I feel okay with skepticism, because I love Eastern thoughts, especially "Neti...neti" concept. Ultimate skepticism I guess.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
The trouble comes in knowing God's will. Do you rely on the Bible alone? Everyone interprets it differently. Do you rely on one Denomination or some leader? Do not rely on arms of flesh. Do you rely on personal revelation? The devils appears as an angel of light and deceives many... I don't trust any claiming they follow God... I do not see anyone as following God, only those who justify and try to give power to their personal opinions by tacking on "this is what God commands". It is not what God commands of course, it is what that person would like God to command. We all only really follow our own conscience.
read and study the bible is a good way to find out what God's will is .
in the states as it is in many countrys is the fredom of religion and peopel take it to mean they can worship the most high God any way they want to . Yet when the bible is read and stuidyed, such an idea is not found.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
in the states as it is in many countrys is the fredom of religion and peopel take it to mean they can worship the most high God any way they want to .

Yet when the bible is read and stuidyed, such an idea is not found.
Seems to me, that the Bible agrees with Freedom of Religion, being "All are free to practise the Religion of their choice."
 
Top