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Classic failed science predictions and a faulty cosmological model exposed

dad

Undefeated
First, to call it "religion" as if it's a bad word is insanely hypocritical for a religious person to do.
I am not religious. It is a bad thing for something to be offered as true and factual and known and a part of scientific knowledge when it is actually based only in beliefs. That is a con job and a fraud.

No matter how hard you try it will always be reasonable to believe the laws of physics have been the same during the age of the Earth and the radiometric dating, several methods all used to confirm each other, is reliable.
That is fine, it is fine to believe that for ignorant people who don't know either way. It is not fine to pretend you know and use that belief in godless anti bible anti creation fables and call it science.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
Belief in a same nature in the past does not work. Be honest. You just have this crank reason why it's valid - a blind faith that nature was the same in the past.. You cannot demonstrate dating methods to be valid.
Great, if you say it doesn't work you have to demonstrate that. You can't.
I can demonstrate that the current laws work because they do. Arbitrarily assuming something was different "just because" is crank. I cannot prove I wasn't a female rock star yesterday. I could have been and this new me just started today complete with memories of the past.
This works for an infinite of things. Everything was different yesterday.
It's all exactly as pointless as your idea.





Hundreds of specific prophesies prove He was the One.
Except for the ones that "haven't happened yet". Oh and the ones written to look like this fictional character fulfilled the OT prophecies.



False. You just have no written records, except from the Persian copycats.
We have the OT, those are the written records. The stuff they copied from Persia all appeared during or after the Persian invasion.


The many people nation groups that rejected God had similar stories passed down.
Yup, that myth was very popular even before Christianity.

We knew our history long before the Persians were a gleam in their parent's eyes.
Right, except ooops, they forgot to write it down until after. Huh.

Willingly ignorant moron might be the operative words for a doubt compiler who truly doesn't know what he is talking about.

He just uses scripture. It speaks for itself.

This is not the thread to teach prophesy 101. Prophets in the OT generally had prophesies fulfilled locally in their time so that people would know the things they spoke about in the future also would come true. Most already have and are now history also. Of course many are yet to be fulfilled. (though of these many have already been partially fulfilled, so we have a taste already)
This is whatever thread I want it to be. You can refrain from answering if you don't like it.
The prophecy thing is done. Vague, not yet fulfilled or written after the fact. Same as all religions.
As with every single topic we covered, you had plenty of chances to provide evidence. It's a complete fail 100%. All you can show is what you believe to be true.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
I am not religious.


"the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods."
ooopsy, looks like you are.

Worshiping a myth is being religious. Even if it was real you would still be religious.


It is a bad thing for something to be offered as true and factual and known and a part of scientific knowledge when it is actually based only in beliefs. That is a con job and a fraud.

Yup it would be. Except all the science you deny does have evidence. You just reject it.
It's also not as factual as you say. It's a model based on evidence but there is always room for new evidence to dictate a new direction. So even your wrong is wrong.

That is fine, it is fine to believe that for ignorant people who don't know either way. It is not fine to pretend you know and use that belief in godless anti bible anti creation fables and call it science.

If using all available evidence is "ignorant" I'll stick with ignorance.
There is no such thing as "anti-bible" science. It's just what evidence shows. When scientists look at evidence they do not consider all of the myths people have created and make sure not to contradict any of them.
Science doesn't "pretend to know" anything. They just examine things and make theories and models around it. Then the theories and models make predictions and if they turn out wrong then they move on. If they are correct then they move forward with that.
 

dad

Undefeated
Great, if you say it doesn't work you have to demonstrate that. You can't.
How can anything 'work' unless we know whether or not it existed?
I can demonstrate that the current laws work because they do.
Big deal. I can demonstrate how long an ice cream cone takes to melt, doe that mean Noah had a cone?


Arbitrarily assuming something was different "just because" is crank. I cannot prove I wasn't a female rock star yesterday. I could have been and this new me just started today complete with memories of the past.
This works for an infinite of things. Everything was different yesterday.
It's all exactly as pointless as your idea.

Except for the ones that "haven't happened yet". Oh and the ones written to look like this fictional character fulfilled the OT prophecies.
The nature of a prophesy is that is is future. It's been so long since most bible prophesies were given most are history now. That does not mean all are supposed to be finished.


We have the OT, those are the written records. The stuff they copied from Persia all appeared during or after the Persian invasion.
No, written records were kept for the heathen at the time. That does not mean they had the exclusive and were not plagiarizing the known records that were not in writing yet.

Right, except ooops, they forgot to write it down until after. Huh.
No one probably wrote anything before Babel. Later written communication became needed. Probably those inferior heathen nations needed it quicker! Not like God would help them to remember, or they were not too busy embellishing and making stuff up anyhow.

This is whatever thread I want it to be.
No it is a thread about failed so called science predictions coming out the ying yang.
 

dad

Undefeated
"the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods."
ooopsy, looks like you are.

Worshiping a myth is being religious. Even if it was real you would still be religious.
In some sense of the word, yes. In the modern sense of the word, not so much.

"Religion is a social-cultural system of designated behaviors and practices, morals, worldviews, texts, sanctified places, prophecies, ethics, or organizations, that relates humanity to supernatural, transcendental, or spiritual elements.[1] However, there is no scholarly consensus over what precisely constitutes a religion"


Yup it would be. Except all the science you deny does have evidence.
Except it has zero and you can't post any.

You just reject it.
Nothing to reject but pure belief. That ain't evidence.

It's also not as factual as you say. It's a model based on evidence but there is always room for new evidence to dictate a new direction.
False it is built on belief only when it comes to origin science claims.

There is no such thing as "anti-bible" science.
I don't see science trying to be pro bible.

It's just what evidence shows
False, it is what they choose to believe.

. When scientists look at evidence they do not consider all of the myths people have created and make sure not to contradict any of them.
Why would the heathen myth makers of so called science look to any other myth or belief? They accept only the narrow minded little in box beliefs and belief based methodology they worship.

Science doesn't "pretend to know" anything.
Many origin claims are taught and spread as if they were matter of fact.

They just examine things and make theories and models around it.
Have you examined the inside of the sun, or earth? No. The edges of the universe? No. Anything spiritual? No. etc etc.
Then the theories and models make predictions and if they turn out wrong then they move on.
When their wrong beliefs result inevitably in being caught one day, of course they scramble and use the same belief set to conjure up any other 'believable' story they can.
 

Onoma

Active Member
"All indications are that the standard model needs revision "

If you couldn't revise a model it wouldn't be science

*shrugs*
 

Onoma

Active Member
Yuh, I was just a little confused at your indignance at the fact they have to revise the model because that's how science works, and also the reason there's no such thing as " scientific proof "

*shrugs again*
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
Except it has zero and you can't post any.

science is built only on evidence. Yu know there is evidence for the big bang. You reject it by inventing your turtles/fishbown crank. You have already failed to show evidence so I do not care about your personal beliefs.

Nothing to reject but pure belief. That ain't evidence.

Right. Oh, except we can see all sorts of evidence. Your fantasy reasons about how this light we see is really an "illusion" from Yahweh is a nice little story. You go with that.

False it is built on belief only when it comes to origin science claims.

Right because the light coming to us isn't really showing us what's out there, we see a fake illusion cuz...magic. Cool. Buh bye.

I don't see science trying to be pro bible.
For the same reason science isn't pro-Illiad and pro-ushanipad or pro-Scientology or pro-Lord of teh Rings.
Those are fictional myths. Science does not care what 2000 year old fiction says.



Why would the heathen myth makers of so called science look to any other myth or belief? They accept only the narrow minded little in box beliefs and belief based methodology they worship.

I know and look what happened, YOUR COMPUTER! And your car and endless other technologies. OOOPS, guess the scientific method works. So they apply that to all areas.
Hmm, they used science to predict black holes...found them. Used science to predict gravity waves...found them. Guess it works with deep space as well.

Your reason that light from deep space isn't accurate....CRANK. Evidence for this crank.......ZERO.

Easest debate ever.

Many origin claims are taught and spread as if they were matter of fact.
Really, let's see....nope. They are clear it's a theory based on evidence and our current best guess based on observation.

Space.com:
"
The Big Bang Theory is the leading explanation about how the universe began. At its simplest, it says the universe as we know it started with a small singularity, then inflated over the next 13.8 billion years to the cosmos that we know today.

Because current instruments don't allow astronomers to peer back at the universe's birth, much of what we understand about the Big Bang Theory comes from mathematical formulas and models. Astronomers can, however, see the "echo" of the expansion through a phenomenon known as the cosmic microwave background.

Wiki:
"The Big Bang theory is a cosmological model of the observable universe from the earliest known periods through its subsequent large-scale evolution.[1][2][3] The model describes how the universe expanded from an initial state of extremely high density and high temperature,[4] and offers a comprehensive explanation for a broad range of observed phenomena, including the abundance of light elements, the cosmic microwave background (CMB) radiation, and large-scale structure."
Big Bang - Wikipedia

there is a list of evidence there as well. Your fishbowl crank is your own personal issue, there is no reason to look out into space and believe it's all some Yahweh illusion so good luck with that.



Have you examined the inside of the sun, No. Anything spiritual? No. etc etc.

They can examine the Sun in different wavelengths of light to see its surface and corona. They can use spectroscopy to see the elements produced in different parts of the Sun. They can study its radiation using radar, or its interior using techniques such as acoustic interferometry.

The reflection of the sound waves off the inside of the photosphere causes the surface to pulsate very slightly, and the rising and falling of the photosphere can be measured to give information on the density and motions of the material within the Sun. ... Many telescopes on the Earth study the Sun in white light.

Then we use these measurements to make predictons about the size, temperature etc.. of the sun and guess what....they work!


Spiritual? In a way, prayer has been studied as well as ESP. Doesn't work. At all.
How about a vast experiment where prophets from all times compare notes and we see 100% completely different myths and spiritual concepts. OOPS, so clearly channeling gods doesn't work.





When their wrong beliefs result inevitably in being caught one day, of course they scramble and use the same belief set to conjure up any other 'believable' story they can.

There is a rocket in space right now. Is the rocket powered by "belief"?
Did they conjure up the ship with any belief they can? HA! Your ideas are one big fail.
 

dad

Undefeated
science is built only on evidence.
That is why so called sciences that deal with origins are not science at all, but more akin to religion. They have no evidence and pretend they do, and when pressed they offer beliefs as the evidence.
Yu know there is evidence for the big bang
None at all. There is misapplied beliefs.


Right. Oh, except we can see all sorts of evidence. Your fantasy reasons about how this light we see is really an "illusion" from Yahweh is a nice little story. You go with that.
Your posts are descending into insanity and bogus strawman arguments. The light God ordained from stars to come to earth to be seen is not some illusion. When we look at that light here and apply a cavalcade of false science beliefs on it, that is when the delusions and illusions begin.


For the same reason science isn't pro-Illiad and pro-ushanipad or pro-Scientology or pro-Lord of teh Rings.
Like any religion, so called science is only pro self, and pro so called science beliefs. We would not expect them to adopt other religious beliefs generally. Although, they do embrace old demonic gods in naming many things! The imaginary planet that they say made the moon, for example.


I know and look what happened, YOUR COMPUTER! And your car and endless other technologies. OOOPS, guess the scientific method works. So they apply that to all areas.
Hmm, they used science to predict black holes...found them. Used science to predict gravity waves...found them. Guess it works with deep space as well.
No prediction of gravity in deep space has been offered or supported by you here. No prediction of gravity in the fishbowl matters.

Really, let's see....nope. They are clear it's a theory based on evidence and our current best guess based on observation.
Fishbowl observations blended with a plethora of beliefs.

, much of what we understand about the Big Bang Theory comes from mathematical formulas and models. Astronomers can, however, see the "echo" of the expansion through a phenomenon known as the cosmic microwave background.
No they can't. The creation echo is not a BB echo. Your claim of the lumpy CMB being a BB remnant is belief based in the extreme. Example:
"When the CMB was initially emitted it was not in the form of microwaves at all, but mostly visible and ultraviolet light. Over the past few billion years.."

The Cosmic Microwave Background

So besides the foolish inflation epoch claim where it all inflated in a teensy fraction of a second, that you could never prove, you claim that some light changed over billions of years to microwave light! Etc. Total religion.

Wiki:
"The Big Bang theory is a cosmological model of the observable universe from the earliest known periods through its subsequent large-scale evolution.[1][2][3] The model describes how the universe expanded from an initial state of extremely high density and high temperature,[4] and offers a comprehensive explanation for a broad range of observed phenomena, including the abundance of light elements, the cosmic microwave background (CMB) radiation, and large-scale structure."
Big Bang - Wikipedia

there is a list of evidence there as well. Your fishbowl crank is your own personal issue, there is no reason to look out into space and believe it's all some Yahweh illusion so good luck with that.
As explained, the beliefs about the CMB are not evidence. the structure we see out there is not evidence of some BB either. (no more than the structure of atoms and molecules and cells are). All temperature, radiation and etc are seen only here in the fishbowl, and do not deal with the BB.
They can examine the Sun in different wavelengths of light to see its surface and corona. They can use spectroscopy to see the elements produced in different parts of the Sun.
Great let's test this claim.

Please show us the elements say at precisely one million km deep in the sun?!

They can study its radiation using radar, or its interior using techniques such as acoustic interferometry.
What do you think that tells you about a million km down in the sun? Example?

The reflection of the sound waves off the inside of the photosphere causes the surface to pulsate very slightly, and the rising and falling of the photosphere can be measured to give information on the density and motions of the material within the Sun. .
.. Yeah yeah, yet science can't explain why the surface of the sun behaves as it does. Gong!
Many telescopes on the Earth study the Sun in white light.
So?

Then we use these measurements to make predictons about the size, temperature etc.. of the sun and guess what....they work!
I suspect if you knew what you were talking about and could provide the details, it would be circular reasoning. ('if the light is this way, it must mean that so many imaginary years and things had to have happened to make it that way')

Spiritual? In a way, prayer has been studied as well as ESP. Doesn't work. At all.
Foolish pretend prayers to no one do not work. Real ones have been shown to work.

How about a vast experiment where prophets from all times compare notes and we see 100% completely different myths and spiritual concepts.
There are God's prophets, and all the others. The others do not matter and are a joke as far as prophesy fulfillment go.

There is a rocket in space right now. Is the rocket powered by "belief"?
There is a fish in a pet store tank swimming right now. Does that mean it swims to infinity and beyond?
Ha. Your rockets do not leave the fishbowl.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
That is why so called sciences that deal with origins are not science at all, but more akin to religion. They have no evidence and pretend they do, and when pressed they offer beliefs as the evidence.
None at all. There is misapplied beliefs.
We have already done this.
I list the evidence.
You say it doesn't count because of some unproven crank "fishbowl" Yahweh illusion nonsense.
You fail to provide evidence for this.
Ok, cool. Good luck with that, don't care about your beliefs. bye.




Your posts are descending into insanity and bogus strawman arguments. The light God ordained from stars to come to earth to be seen is not some illusion. When we look at that light here and apply a cavalcade of false science beliefs on it, that is when the delusions and illusions begin.

Nope. When we look at the sun the light is showing us a star. When we look into deep space the light is showing us many other stars. You claim that is an illusion.
I said the laws of physics operate in deep space because for one, we see stars, as well as gravity at work and many other things that demonstrate physics is the same.
You deny this and say what we are seeing isn't really what we are seeing. (illusion).
This is how you invoke your phony reason to deny what we see coming from space. Now you are claiming there is no illusion?

My posts haven't changed at all. I show you are wrong. That's it. Nothing has changed.


Like any religion, so called science is only pro self, and pro so called science beliefs. We would not expect them to adopt other religious beliefs generally. Although, they do embrace old demonic gods in naming many things! The imaginary planet that they say made the moon, for example.

So all science is now a religion. Cool, please take a photo of your computer you created from prayer using your phone you created from prayer.
What OS does your prayer computer use? Can you get Photoshop with it?


No prediction of gravity in deep space has been offered or supported by you here. No prediction of gravity in the fishbowl matters.
All of the predictions made from gravitational equations have shown to be actual things in the universe. GR predicted the expansion of space, black holes, clusters of galaxies, gravity waves, gravitational lensing...all of these things have been seen.


No they can't. The creation echo is not a BB echo. Your claim of the lumpy CMB being a BB remnant is belief based in the extreme. Example:
"When the CMB was initially emitted it was not in the form of microwaves at all, but mostly visible and ultraviolet light. Over the past few billion years.."
you claim that some light changed over billions of years to microwave light! Etc. Total religion.

http://cosmology.berkeley.edu/Education/CosmologyEssays/The_Cosmic_Microwave_Background.html
http://cosmology.berkeley.edu/Education/CosmologyEssays/The_Cosmic_Microwave_Background.html

Wait, you don't even know that when light loses energy it moves from the high energy spectrum to a lower energy state?
The predictions were that the light from the BB were initially in the highest spectrum and based on the time scale they would now have cooled down to the microwave spectrum. Which is EXACTLY WHAT THEY FOUND!?


Wiki:
As explained, the beliefs about the CMB are not evidence. the structure we see out there is not evidence of some BB either. (no more than the structure of atoms and molecules and cells are). All temperature, radiation and etc are seen only here in the fishbowl, and do not deal with the BB.
Great let's test this claim.

See, I told you, you try to deny evidence using your "Yahweh fishbowl illusion" crank. Thank you, you just made my point.
Again, I do not care about your fiction. You cannot provide evidence. Cool.
That is all I care about.

Please show us the elements say at precisely one million km deep in the sun?!

The sun isn't one million km deep?

"Over the past 4.6 billion years, the amount of helium and its location within the Sun has gradually changed. Within the core, the proportion of helium has increased from about 24% to about 60% due to fusion, and some of the helium and heavy elements have settled from the photosphere towards the center of the Sun because of gravity. The proportions of metals (heavier elements) is unchanged. Heat is transferred outward from the Sun's core by radiation rather than by convection (see Radiative zone below), so the fusion products are not lifted outward by heat; they remain in the core and gradually an inner core of helium has begun to form that cannot be fused because presently the Sun's core is not hot or dense enough to fuse helium. In the current photosphere the helium fraction is reduced, and the metallicity is only 84% of what it was in the protostellar phase (before nuclear fusion in the core started). In the future, helium will continue to accumulate in the core, and in about 5 billion years this gradual build-up will eventually cause the Sun to exit the main sequence and become a red giant."

What do you think that tells you about a million km down in the sun? Example?

That you would be on the other side of the sun.

.. Yeah yeah, yet science can't explain why the surface of the sun behaves as it does. Gong!
They might but science never claims to know everything so this is a strawnman.



Foolish pretend prayers to no one do not work. Real ones have been shown to work.

First, prove it. Second prove the prayers in the studies were "fake prayers".
"
Prayers offered by strangers had no effect on the recovery of people who were undergoing heart surgery, a large and long-awaited study has found.

And patients who knew they were being prayed for had a higher rate of post-operative complications like abnormal heart rhythms, perhaps because of the expectations the prayers created, the researchers suggested.

Because it is the most scientifically rigorous investigation of whether prayer can heal illness, the study, begun almost a decade ago and involving more than 1,800 patients, has for years been the subject of speculation."
Long-Awaited Medical Study Questions the Power of Prayer

They also did all variables. The recipients knew they were being prayed for, they didn't know and so on.
We don't need a study to know this. Religious people have the same mortality rate as everyone. When them or a family member are ill everyone prays. People recover, or not. If they did they say it's an answered prayer. If not they say God had a different plan.
That is exactly the same as random chance. If prayer worked mortality rates for terminal illnesses would be skewed all over the place due to intervention. That isn't the case. If a cancer has a 40% mortality rate then that statistic will always play out. There is no agent involved here beyond random stats being played out.

There are God's prophets, and all the others. The others do not matter and are a joke as far as prophesy fulfillment go.
Actually all religions have prophecies that are equally as silly.

"The year 4800.3969 of the Hindu calendar is the year 1844 A.D. of the Christian calendar. This prophecy says that Kali Yug will end in the year 1844 A.D. It also promises that by the end of Kali Yug age (or 1844 A.D.) there will appear a Manifestation of God Who will inaugurate a new "krityug" or a new "age of deeds".


Two hours and eleven minutes after sunset on May 23rd, 1844 A.D. this great and long-standing prophecy was fulfilled when the Bab announced to his first disciple that he was the long awaited Promised One."

Oh look, the Hindu have "exact" prophecies also. Wow.

All prophets are spinning about the same amount of fraud. Still people love to believe made up stories.

There is a fish in a pet store tank swimming right now. Does that mean it swims to infinity and beyond?
Ha. Your rockets do not leave the fishbowl.

Then I'll ask again. What is powering this rocket? Belief in myths and prayer or science.
Since you completely missed the point, it's science. Clear evidence science works. Now pray and make anything happen. Go ahead, which sea are you going to part? Provide evidence.
 

dad

Undefeated
I list the evidence.
You list beliefs.


Nope. When we look at the sun the light is showing us a star. When we look into deep space the light is showing us many other stars. You claim that is an illusion.
The light from the sun in in the fishbowl. Gong!

I said the laws of physics operate in deep space because for one, we see stars, as well as gravity at work and many other things that demonstrate physics is the same.
Tell us how you could tell gravity in objects of UNKNOWN size and distance works?


So all science is now a religion. Cool, please take a photo of your computer you created from prayer using your phone you created from prayer.
What OS does your prayer computer use? Can you get Photoshop with it?
Fishbowl science that deals in reality and actual knowledge is real science. Projecting elsewhere is not.



All of the predictions made from gravitational equations have shown to be actual things in the universe. GR predicted the expansion of space, black holes, clusters of galaxies, gravity waves, gravitational lensing...all of these things have been seen.
Blather. Black holes are theory. We see things happeneing out there and need to explain it using things we know here. Clusters of galaxies do not help you either. On the contrary actually.


Wait, you don't even know that when light loses energy it moves from the high energy spectrum to a lower energy state?
No I do not know this is true is deep space.

Proof?

The predictions were that the light from the BB were initially in the highest spectrum and based on the time scale they would now have cooled down to the microwave spectrum. Which is EXACTLY WHAT THEY FOUND!?
Based on a belief based phony time scale. That and assuming no creation. Your religion is apparent.


The sun isn't one million km deep?
The issue is not how big we see the sun is. The issue is what is really down there and how you think you know!
"Over the past 4.6 billion years, the amount of helium and its location within the Sun has gradually changed.
Horse manure.
Within the core, the proportion of helium has increased from about 24% to about 60% due to fusion, and some of the helium and heavy elements have settled from the photosphere towards the center of the Sun because of gravity. The proportions of metals (heavier elements) is unchanged.
In your dreams. Science doesn't even know why the outer SURFACE is hotter!
Heat is transferred outward from the Sun's core by radiation rather than by convection (see Radiative zone below), so the fusion products are not lifted outward by heat; they remain in the core and gradually an inner core of helium has begun to form that cannot be fused because presently the Sun's core is not hot or dense enough to fuse helium
Woulda coulda shoulda. Prove that is what goes on down there.

. In the current photosphere the helium fraction is reduced, and the metallicity is only 84% of what it was in the protostellar phase (before nuclear fusion in the core started).
Circular reasoning/religion. Prove it.

In the future, helium will continue to accumulate in the core, and in about 5 billion years this gradual build-up will eventually cause the Sun to exit the main sequence and become a red giant."
Pagan false prophesy!

First, prove it. Second prove the prayers in the studies were "fake prayers".
We need to prove our own experiences. You cannot prove mine.
"
Prayers offered by strangers had no effect on the recovery of people who were undergoing heart surgery, a large and long-awaited study has found.
Recovery is not the measure of answered prayer in all cases! Sometimes death is.Prayer is ansered, but not in the way we demand.

That is exactly the same as random chance.

As far as the blind can see. So what? God knows prayers that are real. He knows how to answer. The ,measure of His reply is beyond the reach of science to see.

.
"The year 4800.3969 of the Hindu calendar is the year 1844 A.D. of the Christian calendar. This prophecy says that Kali Yug will end in the year 1844 A.D. It also promises that by the end of Kali Yug age (or 1844 A.D.) there will appear a Manifestation of God Who will inaugurate a new "krityug" or a new "age of deeds".
He should have read what Jesus said and he would have known that was nonsense.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
The light from the sun in in the fishbowl. Gong!
We see stars in our solar system and in others. This is evidence taht physics is the same across the universe. Your fishbowl crank is unproven and you lost this part of the debate way back when you failed to provide evidence for it.

Tell us how you could tell gravity in objects of UNKNOWN size and distance works?
We see galaxies orbiting each other. We see superclusters in orbit. The fact that there are stars also means that gravity works in all those locations. Stars are a delicate balance between gravitational forces and EM/strong force pressure.
Now we even know there are planets orbiting suns. We also see black holes, neutron stars and pulsars which require gravity in extreme amounts.
This is all evidence that the laws of physics operates in deep space.

Fishbowl science that deals in reality and actual knowledge is real science. Projecting elsewhere is not.
When we see people in other countries does anyone think "those people must be entirely different humans, I wonder if they even have hearts and brains? I wonder how they reproduce?"
That would be stupid.
When we see suns and galaxies in space, they use the same science used in out solar system and galaxy. You have to provide a reason if you think they are entirely different.

I asked you for proof around 20 threads ago. You keep not providing evidence and continuing to embarrass yourself as if you have made any kind of meaningful point. I'm fine with it, it's amusing.


Blather. Black holes are theory. We see things happeneing out there and need to explain it using things we know here. Clusters of galaxies do not help you either. On the contrary actually.

I know, it's all a Yahweh illusion. Cool. Prove it. Oh, you can't?
Those suns we are seeing are a Yahweh trick! That Yahweh, he's too much!
Good thing you know the secret!


No I do not know this is true is deep space.
You can deny science all day. I do not care. The light from the CMB has cooled into the microwave spectrum. You are not even aware light moves from different spectrums as it cools.


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. Besides that we can see it with microwave telescopes, ALL OF YOUR CRANK IDEAS HAVE ZERO PROOF
You haven't provided one single "proof" yet?

Based on a belief based phony time scale. That and assuming no creation. Your religion is apparent.
The time scales are the best guess based on all available evidence. If you disagree then debunk it.
If you can't just continue to troll away.

The issue is not how big we see the sun is. The issue is what is really down there and how you think you know!

Yup we dealt with this science already. You didn't debunk it or provide counter evidence.

Horse manure.

Oh Wow, that's some good counter-argument right there.Why are you even trying to debate?

In your dreams. Science doesn't even know why the outer SURFACE is hotter!
Woulda coulda shoulda.

"Woulda coulda shoulda"? Yet another great point. Wow you are on a roll!
What did I say in the beginning?
"I know you are but what am I".
All of your points are exactly that or as bad. I nailed it.

Ha



Circular reasoning/religion. Prove it.

Sorry, now you debunk the science, provide counter evidence or demonstrate why it's circular.
If you can't you have lost YET AGAIN.
Here you go...

""Over the past 4.6 billion years, the amount of helium and its location within the Sun has gradually changed. Within the core, the proportion of helium has increased from about 24% to about 60% due to fusion, and some of the helium and heavy elements have settled from the photosphere towards the center of the Sun because of gravity. The proportions of metals (heavier elements) is unchanged. Heat is transferred outward from the Sun's core by radiation rather than by convection (see Radiative zone below), so the fusion products are not lifted outward by heat; they remain in the core and gradually an inner core of helium has begun to form that cannot be fused because presently the Sun's core is not hot or dense enough to fuse helium. In the current photosphere the helium fraction is reduced, and the metallicity is only 84% of what it was in the protostellar phase (before nuclear fusion in the core started). In the future, helium will continue to accumulate in the core, and in about 5 billion years this gradual build-up will eventually cause the Sun to exit the main sequence and become a red giant.""

Pagan false prophesy!

Sorry, now you debunk the science, provide counter evidence or demonstrate why it's false prophecy.
If you can't you have lost YET AGAIN.
Here you go...
In the future, helium will continue to accumulate in the core, and in about 5 billion years this gradual build-up will eventually cause the Sun to exit the main sequence and become a red giant."


Recovery is not the measure of answered prayer in all cases! Sometimes death is.Prayer is ansered, but not in the way we demand.

Exactly. Sometimes the answer is death, or "no" or continued illness for years, then death or sometime people get cured.
Thank you for making my point. The results of prayer are the exact same as random events playing out statistically. Adding a god to it is something you can do to make yourself feel better but clearly god = random events playing out exactly as stats would predict.

Hint - there is no God in the mix.


As far as the blind can see. So what? God knows prayers that are real. He knows how to answer. The ,measure of His reply is beyond the reach of science to see.

Right. Which means it's prayer to an imaginary friend who has no influence on the real world.
By far the largest thing people pray for are for themselves or family to be cured during a terminal illness.

Yet mortality rates are consistent among all people, all religions or non-religious.
If 20% of patients die from an illness we will see the stats always play out. If it's 95% we see that.
So there is no entity helping people survive.
"Beyond the reach of science" now you are playing games. People do not say "God please answer my prayer but do it in a way that is beyond science" HA!
They say "PLEASE LET ME OR MY FAMILY MEMBER LIVE from this terminal illness". That is not "beyond science". Your apologetics is even bad.

.
He should have read what Jesus said and he would have known that was nonsense.
Yeah except that prophecy came true. Do you think even a little before you type?
 
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dad

Undefeated
We see stars in our solar system and in others. This is evidence taht physics is the same across the universe.


Let's just look at that crock for now.

Seeing something in our solar system that you want to call a star does not make little lights in the far universe the same as the sun.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
Let's just look at that crock for now.

Seeing something in our solar system that you want to call a star does not make little lights in the far universe the same as the sun.

The Hubble telescope is able to study all types of different properties of the 2nd closest star.
You can read about it here:
Proxima Centauri - Wikipedia
You haven't debunked or even given a counter argument to any of this except for an unsupported idea that what we think we are seeing is actually an illusion so these are not actually stars. Even though we measure wavelengths which show high energy photons which show fusion is happening. The light also shows it's spectral class M5.5.
optical interferometry with the Very Large Telescope (VLTI) found that the angular diameter of Proxima Centauri is 1.02±0.08 mas. From the images we also get a read on the ascension, declination, magnitude, spectral type, color index, radial velocity, parallax, mass, radius, temp, rotation and much more.

Your failed thesis that this light coming from distant stars is not actually what it seems to be (even though it provides very detailed information which just happens to MATCH ALL THEORIES ABOUT STAR BEHAVIOR?)
Huh, that's weird, the Yahweh illusion happens to provide detailed scientific information that matches information about our own sun?
And you have NO evidence or reason why your "fishbowl" idea is reasonable.
So I do not care about your personal beliefs. I only care about evidence.

It's a "crock" because.......what reason? When you stand in a forest and see trees for miles do you say "well these trees I can touch right here are definitely trees. But those far away trees on that mountain. Those are not trees. Not likely. Yeah they look like trees. But the light reaching your eyes is telling a lie. It's really something else".
"Evidence....? No I don't have evidence, but why would those trees over there be the same? It's obviously smarter to believe they are not real.
You can rock your Yahweh illusion fishbowl all day. I do not care about delusions people hold.
 

dad

Undefeated
The Hubble telescope is able to study all types of different properties of the 2nd closest star.
You can read about it here:
Proxima Centauri - Wikipedia
You haven't debunked or even given a counter argument to any of this except for an unsupported idea that what we think we are seeing is actually an illusion so these are not actually stars. Even though we measure wavelengths which show high energy photons which show fusion is happening. The light also shows it's spectral class M5.5.
optical interferometry with the Very Large Telescope (VLTI) found that the angular diameter of Proxima Centauri is 1.02±0.08 mas. From the images we also get a read on the ascension, declination, magnitude, spectral type, color index, radial velocity, parallax, mass, radius, temp, rotation and much more.

Your failed thesis that this light coming from distant stars is not actually what it seems to be (even though it provides very detailed information which just happens to MATCH ALL THEORIES ABOUT STAR BEHAVIOR?)
Huh, that's weird, the Yahweh illusion happens to provide detailed scientific information that matches information about our own sun?
And you have NO evidence or reason why your "fishbowl" idea is reasonable.
So I do not care about your personal beliefs. I only care about evidence.

It's a "crock" because.......what reason? When you stand in a forest and see trees for miles do you say "well these trees I can touch right here are definitely trees. But those far away trees on that mountain. Those are not trees. Not likely. Yeah they look like trees. But the light reaching your eyes is telling a lie. It's really something else".
"Evidence....? No I don't have evidence, but why would those trees over there be the same? It's obviously smarter to believe they are not real.
You can rock your Yahweh illusion fishbowl all day. I do not care about delusions people hold.
Everything Hubble sees is here. The light is here when we see it. All the hooey about how long it took to get here is religion based on a belief time and space are uniform in the universe. That is not known.
 
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