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Resurrection

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
What witnesses? I've read accounts of this, but none of them first person or reliable. Most amount to hearsay and folklore, or religious propaganda.
The biblical gospels themselves report differing accounts of the tomb and resurrection.story
12 different recorded appearances of Jesus:
1st of 12 The appearance of Jesus to Mary Magdalene Sunday 17th or 21st of Nisan Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9-11, John 20:11-18

2nd of 12 The appearance of Jesus to the other women, Matthew 28:1

3rd of 12 The appearance of Jesus to two disciples (Cleophas and another) on the road to Emmaus, Mark 16:12-13, Luke 24:13-32, John 24:33-35, 1 Corinthians 15:5

4th of 12 The news of the appearance of Jesus to Simon Peter, Luke 24:33-35, 1 Corinthians 15:5

5th of 12 The appearance to the astonished disciples (Thomas absent) with a commission, Mark 16:14, Luke 24:36-43, 1 Corinthians 15:5

6th of 12 The appearance of Jesus to the disciples the next Sunday night, John 20:26-31

7th of 12 The appearance of Jesus to seven disciples beside the Sea of Galilee, John 21:1-25

8th of 12 Jesus appears to the eleven disciples on a mountain in Galilee, Matthew 28:16-20, Mark 16:15-18

9th of 12 Jesus appears to about 500 hundred people on a mountain in Galilee, 1 Corinthians 15:6

10th of 12 Jesus appears to James his brother, 1 Corinthians 15:7, Galatians 1:9

11th of 12 Jesus appears to the disciples with another commission, Luke 24:44-49 & Acts 1:3-8

12th of 12 Jesus appears to the disciples with another commission, Luke 24:44-49 & Acts 1:3-8
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Many stories, almost nearly all, even if Jesus was a historical person after his death.
What a funny thing to say! I say destroy the White House and I will build it again in one hour, knowing fully well that they are not going to test me.
The thread is in Religious Debates section, so I discuss.

You can say, "Destroy the White House and I will build it again in one hour," but you would have a rats chance in hell of doing it. Whereas the Lord God our savior, who filled his earthly temple 'Jesus' with his spirit, did so in three days.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Resurrection is a pretty hard pill to swallow. I'm guessing that it's metaphorical to something. I find it hard to say a man rose from the dead 2000 years ago. If one says they saw a human rise from the dead today they would be called delusional. What could his resurrection mean or what does it really mean?

It's probably a metaphor for him going to heaven.
It gets easier when you realize they didn't have EKG's and EEG's and everyone in the stories who get resurrected died of conveniently vague stuff. There's a reason Jesus can't heal John the Baptist after being beheaded. There's a reason King Saul can't be resurrected after getting a sword through him. There's a reason you never hear of people being resurrected when they are buried in the ground without a coffin or something.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
All they had to do was find the body and Christianity would have ceased to exist there and than.
All they had to do was find someone who actually looked like Jesus. It's bizarre that Jesus is resurrected and no one recognizes him, not even people who spent a copious amount of time with him physically. It's almost like they used a twin brother or some other person to make Jesus "live" again. It's not like they ran DNA tests to prove it was him and there weren't photos of him either.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
Resurrection is a pretty hard pill to swallow. I'm guessing that it's metaphorical to something. I find it hard to say a man rose from the dead 2000 years ago. If one says they saw a human rise from the dead today they would be called delusional. What could his resurrection mean or what does it really mean?

It's probably a metaphor for him going to heaven.

(This answer has more than 2 things in it, and a fun twist many might like to read, later.)

That's what I thought in my 20s, 30s. Of course, if there is no such thing as the miraculous -- for something 'impossible' under the ordinary laws of nature to happen -- then 'God' would not exist, in that case (in the way people normally use the title). But....

But, if God does exist, then even this would be possible.

:)

Now, it's fun that in fact we ourselves have technology to 'resurrect' someone dead for more than 4 minutes, if they have been chilled, such as drown in cold water!

That's just fun to consider.

You don't even have to have faith to realize that if we can do this now, something more might be possible in the future.

Not even a faith question.....

heh heh....

Or...well, what kind of faith. Just a fun angle. There is more than just 1 angle.

But, Lazarus was dead for 4 days.
 

Prim969

Member
All they had to do was find someone who actually looked like Jesus. It's bizarre that Jesus is resurrected and no one recognizes him, not even people who spent a copious amount of time with him physically. It's almost like they used a twin brother or some other person to make Jesus "live" again. It's not like they ran DNA tests to prove it was him and there weren't photos of him either.
Kelly there are probably many reasons why people didn’t recognise Jesus straight way after his resurrection firstly because they all thought he was dead. That’s what their mind set would have been. Mary mistook Jesus for the gardener in John 20: 11-18 until Jesus revealed that it was himself. In Luke 24: 13-31 The disciples on the road to Emmaus simply took Jesus as fellow traveler why they did not recognise him, scripture clearly says why, because he chose not to reveal who he was to them until later that evening. You must also take into consideration that Jesus is now in his resurrection body. Kelly in John 21 you also have the disciples out fishing in their boat who did not recognise their resurrected Lord apon the shoreline straight away. But once he spoke they knew who he was straight away. And finally what cannot be disputed is that once revealed they all knew who exactly who he was in whatever passage you choose. Just like doubting Thomas when looking at the nail imprints apon the Lords hand he confessed my Lord and my God There was no mistaking that it was the same Jesus that had been with them prior to his death and resurrection. Certainly no double. And nor did they need DNA at the time to know that it was Jesus the early witness accounts are too many to verify of that.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
You can say, "Destroy the White House and I will build it again in one hour," but you would have a rats chance in hell of doing it. Whereas the Lord God our savior, who filled his earthly temple 'Jesus' with his spirit, did so in three days.
Oh, our Lord Vishwakarma, the divine builder who made the universe at the behest of Lord Brahma, created Lord Vishnu's heaven, Vaikuntha, only with diamonds, pearls, rubies, sapphires, emeralds, gold, silver and semi-precious stones (Quartz, Cat's eye, Zircon, Coral, etc.). Stories and stories. Our Puranas are filled with that.
Kelly there are probably many reasons why people .. accounts are too many to verify of that.
Your faith is strong, but I do not know if it is at the right place. :D
 
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Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Kelly there are probably many reasons why people didn’t recognise Jesus straight way after his resurrection firstly because they all thought he was dead.
If Elvis came back, I would know what the guy looked like, even though he was dead. Besides, who among the twelve knew he was dead? They had all run off (though John says he was there and no one else seems to claim it). They witnessed neither the crucifixion nor the resurrection.

Mary mistook Jesus for the gardener in John 20: 11-18 until Jesus revealed that it was himself. In Luke 24: 13-31 The disciples on the road to Emmaus simply took Jesus as fellow traveler why they did not recognise him, scripture clearly says why, because he chose not to reveal who he was to them until later that evening.
That's a load of bull, though. It's to downplay the fact that someone was claiming to be Jesus and didn't look like him. Mary was very close and John even closer. There's no way they didn't know what the guy looked like. I saw a cousin on my father's side I hadn't seen since we were both kids and we both recognized each other instantly in the airport. It's not that hard.

You must also take into consideration that Jesus is now in his resurrection body.
No. He had holes in him (though he SHOULD have looked like ground up hamburger meat if he had truly been tortured as much as popular imagination says he was). In fact, the fact that he DOESN'T look like ground hamburger meat and only has a few neat holes in him suggests STRONGLY that it's not the same guy. It sounds more like the apostles, having lost their 15 minutes of fame, desperately needed another Jesus to continue getting attention.

Just like doubting Thomas when looking at the nail imprints apon the Lords hand he confessed my Lord and my God There was no mistaking that it was the same Jesus that had been with them prior to his death and resurrection.
Crucifixion nailed people in the wrists, not the hands. That's why you can peg stigmata as BS because the wounds are based on paintings, not history.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
12 different recorded appearances of Jesus:
1st of 12 The appearance of Jesus to Mary Magdalene Sunday 17th or 21st of Nisan Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9-11, John 20:11-18

2nd of 12 The appearance of Jesus to the other women, Matthew 28:1

3rd of 12 The appearance of Jesus to two disciples (Cleophas and another) on the road to Emmaus, Mark 16:12-13, Luke 24:13-32, John 24:33-35, 1 Corinthians 15:5

4th of 12 The news of the appearance of Jesus to Simon Peter, Luke 24:33-35, 1 Corinthians 15:5

5th of 12 The appearance to the astonished disciples (Thomas absent) with a commission, Mark 16:14, Luke 24:36-43, 1 Corinthians 15:5

6th of 12 The appearance of Jesus to the disciples the next Sunday night, John 20:26-31

7th of 12 The appearance of Jesus to seven disciples beside the Sea of Galilee, John 21:1-25

8th of 12 Jesus appears to the eleven disciples on a mountain in Galilee, Matthew 28:16-20, Mark 16:15-18

9th of 12 Jesus appears to about 500 hundred people on a mountain in Galilee, 1 Corinthians 15:6

10th of 12 Jesus appears to James his brother, 1 Corinthians 15:7, Galatians 1:9

11th of 12 Jesus appears to the disciples with another commission, Luke 24:44-49 & Acts 1:3-8

12th of 12 Jesus appears to the disciples with another commission, Luke 24:44-49 & Acts 1:3-8

He was like the dead ringers or nde. Some sadhu's have been recorded doing it. But Jesus said it is the mustard seed that becomes a big thing. So something seemingly insignificant can become the greater part.

Idolatry is the sin above all sins
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
He didn't resurrect, he 'WAS' resurrected by the Lord God our savior, who filled him with his spirit. He may have resuscitated those in a near death situation, but those bodies have long since returned to the elements from which they were created.

“Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up?”

Acts 5: 30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a tree.

Acts 13: 30; But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee, etc.

1st Corinthians 6: 14; And God has both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

2nd Corinthians 1: 9; But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead.

2nd Corinthians 4: 14; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.

Acts 17: 31; For He (The Lord God our saviour) has fixed a day in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

It was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who had filled his earthly temple, (The man Jesus) with his spirit=words, who said through his obedient servant Jesus; “Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up.”

You had better stick to what you know, because you know next to nothing about the christian scriptures.
that spirit fills all beings yet most will not hearken to it. Hear what the Spirit of Love says
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Aupmanyav was Jesus really that important you ask. Seems that he was a very important. At least with his enemies amongst the Jewish religion and Jewish leadership of the time, Even if they only saw him a blasphemer and meaningless rebel. But it seems that this meaningless Rebel that you have mentioned was much more important than others. After all he had the chief priests and Pharisees rather concerned for they did call apon Pilate enquiring of him about Roman soldiers for a guard to seal and protect the tomb for the number of days. Pilate replies you have your watch make sure as you can. And so they did. Matthew 27: 62-66
God is most important. That is why some not of his own loved him and followed him. God is not a respecter of persons
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
OK, then like Muslims, remove all paintings, sculptures of Jesus and Mary, from churches, homes and books.
The problem isn't in pictures, images It's in self. Images don't create idolatry. People create disparity in placing an image above another. God created all mankind in the image of God. Jesus' image is not better/worse than another
 

Prim969

Member
If Elvis came back, I would know what the guy looked like, even though he was dead. Besides, who among the twelve knew he was dead? They had all run off (though John says he was there and no one else seems to claim it). They witnessed neither the crucifixion nor the resurrection.


That's a load of bull, though. It's to downplay the fact that someone was claiming to be Jesus and didn't look like him. Mary was very close and John even closer. There's no way they didn't know what the guy looked like. I saw a cousin on my father's side I hadn't seen since we were both kids and we both recognized each other instantly in the airport. It's not that hard.


No. He had holes in him (though he SHOULD have looked like ground up hamburger meat if he had truly been tortured as much as popular imagination says he was). In fact, the fact that he DOESN'T look like ground hamburger meat and only has a few neat holes in him suggests STRONGLY that it's not the same guy. It sounds more like the apostles, having lost their 15 minutes of fame, desperately needed another Jesus to continue getting attention.


Crucifixion nailed people in the wrists, not the hands. That's why you can peg stigmata as BS because the wounds are based on paintings, not history.
Kelly that’s very true the pegs or nails went into the wrists for more stability the bibles meaning for hand includes the wrist as well. As to the many paintings with the nails in the actual hand. Well point taken but people still got the drift of the suffering that took place. As to Christ being like hamburger meat prior and during the crucifixion. That was no doubt so considering that Jesus was under the blasphemy law where one had their beard ripped from their face along with the many other humiliations like whipping bring naked that one was subjected to. He was probably beyond recognition by the time crucifixion was over. And of course a victim of crucifixion was much closer to ground level and not high up yonder as generally portrayed in our movies and pictures. The reason for that so that victim could face the full brunt of his accusers and often the mob. Not to mention the wild animals who were known to turn up and feast apon the legs of crucifixion victims as well. Kelly you mention the example of meeting your cousin at the airport who you had not seen for many years and still being able to recognise your cousin . Big difference. You were expecting to see someone who was alive and not dead. Mary went to the tomb expecting to prepare a dead corpse not to meet a resurrected Jesus. Do remember that you are now dealing with a resurrection body as the scriptures do say not just a earthly body there was a difference and also that Christ was no longer beyond recognition. Again you say you were able to recognise your cousin after many years. Well again as I pointed out so did Mary the disciples and many others once The risen Christ did allow and they were able to recognise much sooner. I’m sure that many thousands also remembered the ministry of Christ in that time period and of his character and to who he was and to what he looked like just as the apostles and Mary did even with the resurrection body. As to their 15 minutes of fame you mentioned. Well Dear the only fame or renown that many Christians received including most of the apostles was to be stoned to death like Stephen hunted like animals in the arena or to be hung upside down on a cross like Peter. I could think of much more better ways to be appreciated with fame and maybe live to enjoy it much longer as well. Almost all of apostles willingly laid down their lives for the Lord I think it was only John who looked after Mary who lived to see a ripe old age. Again if it was a double. Do remember that Christ’s enemies knew exactly who he was. Any double would have been quickly detected by them. They knew everything about Jesus including his genealogy from the temple records that’s why they considered him conceived from out of the bounds of wedlock. A accusation that they very much enjoyed reminding our lord of during their many confrontations with him while he walked apon this earth. It is late now l must sleep.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
The problem isn't in pictures, images It's in self. Images don't create idolatry. People create disparity in placing an image above another. God created all mankind in the image of God. Jesus' image is not better/worse than another
You mean images and sculpture of Jesus or Mary and people bowing before them is OK, but if the same thing is done by non-Christian people, then it is wrong!

Who has seen your God? Even Moses is supposed to have seen only his hind parts. If mankind was created in the image of God, then it is a poor model. Did your God have a tail like our Simian ancestors?

a3bcade6-0ba2-47f2-aaa1-6db263a09fb6_blausen_0723_pelvis.png
avatar_38d58a8c0446_128.pnj
 
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Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
You mean images and sculpture of Jesus or Mary and people bowing before them is OK, but if the same thing is done by non-Christian people, then it is wrong!

Who has seen your God? Even Moses is supposed to have seen only his hind parts. If mankind was created in the image of God, then it is a poor model. Did your God have a tail like our Simian ancestors?

a3bcade6-0ba2-47f2-aaa1-6db263a09fb6_blausen_0723_pelvis.png
avatar_38d58a8c0446_128.pnj
no, i'm saying that when people become fixated on a form and promote it above another, they've lost sight of the fact that god created all is not a respecter of one above/below another. they are basically cultural forms all coming from mankind. hindu ism isn't more/less important than christianity
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Hindus are very clear about it. There are psychological reasons why we have accepted idol worship and the knowledgeable are supposed to know that idols are 'linga' (symbols) and 'murti' (murta means to give form, the undefinable in a form understandable by us) representing some power (as the theists would believe, I do not) which is not limited to form. Hindus were not created in the image of their deities. We created deities in our image. :D
 
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CG Didymus

Veteran Member
OK, then like Muslims, remove all paintings, sculptures of Jesus and Mary, from churches, homes and books.
Because of the paintings and statues, we kind of know what Jesus and Mary are supposed to look like... maybe even what God looks like. But who knows for sure. By the writings we kind of know what Jesus was supposed to have said and done and what happened after he was killed. Is "kind of" close enough I wonder for some to say that "for sure" this is what happened?
 
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