• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The Trinity: Was Athanasius Scripturally Right?

1213

Well-Known Member
God's name is Jesus because Jesus is God. John 1:1 The Word was God. They are one!…

Interesting that you want to make words of Jesus void. Jesus himself says God has given God’s name to him. It is not my idea. And as you probably know, God is called I AM WHO I AM. It is interesting if you disagree with that.

God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM," and he said, "You shall tell the children of Israel this: "I AM has sent me to you."
Exodus 3:14

Also, I think it is good to know, disciples of Jesus are also one with God.

I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are.
John 17:11

that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that you sent me.
John 17:21
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
So you really think that God approves of the worship of people or people with higher rank? When Bathsheba died did they keep worshiping her? No to both questions. I don't think so. When Cornelius met the apostle Peter and fell at his feet and worshiped him. It says at Acts 10:25, 26

  • But Peter raised him up, saying, 'Stand up; I too am just a man'" (NASB).
Only God was to be worship, not any person.
  • Then Jesus said to him, "Go, Satan! For it is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.'" Matt 4:10, NASB


You are trying to quate people who were called gods with Jesus the son of God. God did not ever say to worship any person. But he told the angle s to worship Jesus at Heb 1:6
  • And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."
Show me in the bible where God says to worship and pray to a person called god.




If I'm dead or in heaven, yes it does. Any request made of a dead person is a prayer.
He never rebuked or corrected anyone or the scriptures that called him God.

  • John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
  • John 20: 28 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"
  • Titus 2:13 “Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.
  • 2 Peter 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.
  • 2 Peter 1: 11 For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
  • Rev 1:8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
  • Rev 22: 12, 13, 20 "Look! I'm coming soon. . . I am the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. . . The one who bears witness to these things says, "Yes, I'm coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus! Also see Rev 1:8; 21:6
Jesus understood what the words Lord and God mean. He didn't pray to himself, or an equal.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
They are obviously rulers and/or judges. Notice at verse 7 where it says that they will die. Also, the bible does not teach polytheism. But watch these videos on Psalms 82; I think they can explain it better than I can.


Jesus applied Psalm 82 and the word god there as he saw fit.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
He never rebuked or corrected anyone or the scriptures that called him God.

  • John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
  • John 20: 28 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"
  • Titus 2:13 “Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.
  • 2 Peter 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.
  • 2 Peter 1: 11 For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
  • Rev 1:8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
  • Rev 22: 12, 13, 20 "Look! I'm coming soon. . . I am the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. . . The one who bears witness to these things says, "Yes, I'm coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus! Also see Rev 1:8; 21:6
I have heard reasons why he did not say to the people he was God. But Jesus knew what was meant. He said he was the Son of God. Not God. He aptly replied that his accusers were terned gods. He didn't say they were not gods or that they were false gods. He did say, however, that they would die. The true God, the Almighty, does not die.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
He never rebuked or corrected anyone or the scriptures that called him God.

  • John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
  • John 20: 28 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"
  • Titus 2:13 “Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.
  • 2 Peter 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.
  • 2 Peter 1: 11 For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
  • Rev 1:8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
  • Rev 22: 12, 13, 20 "Look! I'm coming soon. . . I am the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. . . The one who bears witness to these things says, "Yes, I'm coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus! Also see Rev 1:8; 21:6
He never said he was equal to his God. He said he has a God and he was going to HIM, and that this God (the 'only true God') is greater than he is. He also never said he was co-equal to two other persons and that they all three formed up one entity called the 'godhead.' So one must understand the usage of the word god in the Bible. There are many scholarly commentators of scripture, and many of them disagree on select verses, in fact, they clash with one another. Thus, as with Pharaoh, God can allow one's mind and heart to remain obstinate.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Jesus understood what the words Lord and God mean. He didn't pray to himself, or an equal.
Of course not. the Son prayed to the Father. You must remember that the doctrine says that Jesus is both fully human and fully divine. The fully human Jesus was praying to God.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
A careful examination of the scriptures certainly does not bear that out. The One called the Father has no beginning. He is the Almighty God with no equal.

I believe that is what I just said. God in Jesus, God outside of Jesus (The Father) and God in me (The Paraclete) has always existed.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Do you realize how that sounds? The God of Jesus, yes, has always existed. That God has no equal. He does not have two co-equals called God. It is a fabrication to manufacture a triune godhead of three equal persons. John 14:28. Jesus said he was going to HIS God. Nothing at all indicates he meant he was going to two other persons, one called the Father and the other called the holy spirit. The entire concept of the trinity is absurd.

I believe that is a statement people make when they can't prove their point.

I believe I know.

I believe you are totally confused about this. You have somehow confused the Trinity with the Tri-unity concept of God being three persons. He is not; He is in three persons. God is one in three persons. Jesus is not going to God as Jesus but as God; the body stays behind. However God retains the Jesus identification and upon resurrection takes it up again.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Of course not. the Son prayed to the Father. You must remember that the doctrine says that Jesus is both fully human and fully divine. The fully human Jesus was praying to God.

I can believe that it was the human side praying to the Father but the God who is His Father is right there. I believe it is more conceptually sound to say that God prays to Himself just as He swears by Himself. One might think it an act of futility except that is was by His word that God created the universe and He wasn't talking to us.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I can believe that it was the human side praying to the Father but the God who is His Father is right there. I believe it is more conceptually sound to say that God prays to Himself just as He swears by Himself. One might think it an act of futility except that is was by His word that God created the universe and He wasn't talking to us.
I don't often agree with you, but this time, I do. This made me stop and think. Prayer is conversation. Much of our spiritual practice is spent in self-conversation with our inner selves. And it is precisely that inner self where God hides within us.
 

SLPCCC

Active Member
He never said he was equal to his God. He said he has a God and he was going to HIM, and that this God (the 'only true God') is greater than he is. He also never said he was co-equal to two other persons and that they all three formed up one entity called the 'godhead.' So one must understand the usage of the word god in the Bible. There are many scholarly commentators of scripture, and many of them disagree on select verses, in fact, they clash with one another. Thus, as with Pharaoh, God can allow one's mind and heart to remain obstinate.


The Shema-The Morning Prayer
  • Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God the Lord is one! You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul and with all your might... (Duet 6:4-6)

I think we can agree that Jesus is called "God" (John 1:1), and I think we can agree that scriptures teach monotheism. One God, Yahweh. Correct? And besides Jesus, anyone or anything called god is a false god. However, If one teaches of Jesus as being a separate God from Yahweh and/or of other existing gods like angels (actually men) from Psalms 82, one would be teaching polytheism, not monotheism. Monotheism is the first truth that separates Christianity from the paganism of the world.

The denial of the coequality and coeternally of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is subordinationism. The denial of the existence of the three persons is modalism. These are also in contrast to the fundamental beliefs of the Christian Church.
 
Last edited:

SLPCCC

Active Member
Interesting that you want to make words of Jesus void. Jesus himself says God has given God’s name to him. It is not my idea. And as you probably know, God is called I AM WHO I AM. It is interesting if you disagree with that.

God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM," and he said, "You shall tell the children of Israel this: "I AM has sent me to you."
Exodus 3:14

  • John 8:58 "Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I Am!”
When Jesus says "I am" he using the name of God as it was revealed to Moses, and the Jews knew exactly what he was implying and picked up stones to kill him. This is one of the proofs that show that Jesus and God are the same "I am".
 

1213

Well-Known Member
  • John 8:58 "Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I Am!”
When Jesus says "I am" he using the name of God as it was revealed to Moses, and the Jews knew exactly what he was implying and picked up stones to kill him. This is one of the proofs that show that Jesus and God are the same "I am".

Paul does the same thing, is he then also God?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
  • John 8:58 "Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I Am!”
When Jesus says "I am" he using the name of God as it was revealed to Moses, and the Jews knew exactly what he was implying and picked up stones to kill him. This is one of the proofs that show that Jesus and God are the same "I am".
No, he wasn't. He didn't say he was God. He was existing before Abraham. Do more research. Besides, don't you think they are two "persons" and always have been two persons?
 
Last edited:

SLPCCC

Active Member
No, he wasn't. He didn't say he was God. He was existing before Abraham. Do more research. Besides, don't you think they are two "persons" and always have been two persons?

Yes, Jesus and the Father are two coequal and coeternal persons. Both the I am He, God.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
  • John 8:58 "Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I Am!”
When Jesus says "I am" he using the name of God as it was revealed to Moses, and the Jews knew exactly what he was implying and picked up stones to kill him. This is one of the proofs that show that Jesus and God are the same "I am".
You might want to go back to Psalm 82 and see that ELOHIM is applied to 'the gods' and God. Both ELOHIM. Of course, you probably don't read Hebrew, but you can find that in a good interlinear. You have to start somewhere learning the truth.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes, Jesus and the Father are two coequal and coeternal persons. Both the I am He, God.
So -- you believe, do you, that all three 'persons' were individually and collectively there forever, without any of them coming from the other, is that right? I mean, co-equals with no beginning. Three of them. Not one person, but three.
 
Top