A person is allowed their own view and can interpret what has no interpretation, as long as they say it is theirs.
Passages that have been interpreted, can not have another official explanation.
Regards Tony
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Thoughts on the Baha'i Faith
- Thread starter Sirona
- Start date
A person is allowed their own view and can interpret what has no interpretation, as long as they say it is theirs.
Passages that have been interpreted, can not have another official explanation.
Regards Tony
A covenant breaker is one who has knows the station of Baha'u'llah, but who then tries to take the Faith in the direction they want it to go.
This has happened to all past faiths and why there is so much division in them. Baha'u'llah left a covenant so individuals could not do this and if people try they will be cut off like a cancer. They are given ample opportunity to change that divisive path.
There was quite a few who tried to and none have succeeded. There are a handful left.
Regards Tony
That is the key as one sees what they choose to see. If one looks for oneness it can be found. If one wants to limit truth to a single name, they will be able.
That is why there will be a unity in our diversity, nature and nurture offers a wonderful kaleidoscope of diverse mind.
Regards Tony
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Has any Baha'i given a definitive answer what Baha'is believe about Mirza Ghulam Ahmad? Maybe something like what they say about Joseph Smith and Guru Nanak? Whatever that was?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
But they do exist. So, when it comes to splinter groups or "sects", size matters? And, since there is no peace in the world, has anybody "succeeded" yet?
For the record, Baha’is don’t consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Joseph Smith or Guru Nanak Manifestations of God as we do for Krishna, Moses, Buddha, Christ or Muhammad.
It seems evident to this Baha’i that both Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Bahá’u’lláh were historical characters who lived outstanding lives, had progressive teachings for the era in which they lived. Christ and Muhammad both exerted profound influences on the course of civilisation. So from that perspective the existence of One God appears reasonable and based on a firm foundation.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
They do not believe in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad or Joseph Smith to be carrying any message from Allah, which is unfair and unfortunate, denying a messenger from Allah. They can't give any reasonable explanation. The two made the claim just as Bahaollah did. No difference at all.
Sri Guru Nanak of Sikhs and Hindus (millions of Hindus follow, Punjabis, Sindhis, rever Guru Nanak as their only guru) never claimed to be a messenger from God or Allah.
I haven't looked deeply into them, but Baha'u'llah has written that His cause was proclaimed in many ways, thus Baha'u'llah may have inspired Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith appears to have given prophecy about the Bab and Baha'u'llah, this is one way to see it.
LDS (Mormon) prophecies fulfilled by the Baha'i Faith
Regards Tony
It appears that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was taught about the Bab and given books to read. That could explain a lot.
that Interaction with The People of Bahá: A response to Ahmadi Answers
"...... He had a detailed meeting with Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in which not only the glad-tidings of the Advent of the Mehdi (The Báb) and the Messiah (Bahá’u’lláh) were communicated to him but he was also provided with a box full of Bahá’í Books and Tablets for study. In his book Al-Balagh (البلاغ), whose other name is Faryad-e-Dard (فریاد درد), Mirza Ghulam Ahmad also recorded a listing of the subjects in which he gained mastery. This listing also mentions the Bábí books. This shows that he studied the Writings of The Báb in detail.
In the year 1900 the chief secretary of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Hakeem Noor-ud-Din (who later became the first successor of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad), through letters established communication with the distinguished Bahá’í scholar Allama Mirza Abu’l-Fadl Gulpaygani in order to get answers to some tough religious questions. Mirza Abu’l-Fadl was residing in Cairo in those days. In response, Mirza Abu’l-Fadl wrote and presented a book titled “الدُرر البہیة فی جواب اسئلتہ الہندیہ” as an answer. In this book he not only gave detailed and rational answers to those challenging questions but also expounded the message of the Bahá’í Faith.... "
Regards Tony
When one trims a branch from a tree, it does not dry up and die right away, it takes a little time.
No one will succeed in dividing the Baha'i Faith, their is a written covenant provable in law. Thus I see a few people with a website can plagiarise a name against a lawful covernant, are not a division, they are but a few thief's. A handful may decide to join them.
"The peace and security of mankind are unattainable, unless and until It's unity is firmly established".
Thus the quandary remains CG.
Regards Tony
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
"Baha'u'llah has written that His cause was proclaimed in many ways." As if his writing is the proof.
Old Abrahamic trait. Each new propagant claims that he fulfills all the prophecies made before his time, not even one left unfulfilled. But no proof. Just talk, talk, talk; write, write, write. We are quite familiar with that.
A big why? Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and Joseph Smith were prophets. They declared it clearly. Bahaollah said that doubting the mission of a messenger of Allah is a grave sin. Why do you knowingly want to be a sinner? Bahaollah did not ever mention Krishna or Buddha. Do you have something against Ahmadiyyas, LDS or Sikhs? Why this bias?
Does the truth depend on how many people believe something? That is funny. In that way Jesus is the son of Allah. Some two and a half billion people believe that. Another one and a half billion believe that Allah will send no messengers or messages after Mohammad.
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
The meetings do not appear to have been successful, because Mirza went on to establish his strain of Islam. Basically, he did not believe in overtures by Bahais. He had his own message from Allah, a message more recent than the one given to Bahaollah. All these people study books extent in their time. Bahaollah too seems to have read translations of Torah, Bible, and Qur'an, which is taught to every Muslims. So what is strange in that. People read. I have read various books, from the religious ones to porn. Did not read KamaSutra very thoroughly. Did not get hold of a good translation. By the time I could get a good translation, I already two children.
Whatever covenant you have or don't have. Bahais are too small a congregation for the world to matter much.
Sirona
Hindu Wannabe
It seems that (some?) Baha‘is value “diversity” only as long as it doesn’t interfere with “unity” (or rather “uniformness”) in the matter of religious views. You can’t hold against me that I find groups which propagate a uniform worldview a bit suspicious.
Yet, many small religious groups may internally propagate an elitist mindset, as “being the chosen ones possessing the only truth.”
The choices are every person's to make. How a person choose to search the claim is also up to each of us. I am not here to change your choices.
What the Message means for me is that in this day we must achieve the unity of humanity and if we are to achieve it, to date there has not been another all embracive path given. If one does not see unity is required, then I also am not here to change any person's mind.
The Path offered is not compelling you to change your faith, there is no compulsion in religion, all that it required is acceptance to work with all people with a virtuous mindset, the foundation of all Faith that has a source external from our own self interests.
Regards Tony
That is a choice you can make. I wish you always happy and we'll in all your choices.
Regards Tony
It is not a faith of unity in uniformity, it is a faith of unity in our diversity.
Remember the Baha'i Faith spread to all countries like. Lightning from the East to the West, it has people from all cultures and all Faiths. People do not loose their foundation of their faith and nature and nurture. Go to a a Baha'i meeting and the diversity of worship will be found.
We must be careful not to eliminate the diversity, minorities are to be protected in the Baha'i Law. I see it is important people reconnect to their cultures. There will be in all cultures, aspects we do have to change, as they are not what God has instructed us to do.
Regards Tony
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
That was not in question. It what do they say about them? A lessor type of prophet? Even though one is said to be the Mahdi. Then Joseph Smith claims to have spoken with an angel and wrote down a story that says Jesus came to the Americas. So unless that is true, then what can Baha'i say is true about Joseph Smith. Then Guru Nanak founded a separate religion. How different is that then what others did that are considered to be manifestations? It's just at some point, even Baha'i have to say that some of these people are false teachers and prophets... like maybe L Ron Hubbard? Or is he a lessor type of prophet also?
Sirona
Hindu Wannabe
Nothing but wordplay.
Is this a sign of diversity? If (supposedly) the mainstream Baha'i Faith is intolerant towards splinter groups of its own faith, then how serious is the claim to be taken that it respects the tenets of faiths that are different from it?
This is not unique to the Baha'i Faith. We live in the age of globalization. These days, all kinds of religions have communities worldwide. Many other religions emerged in the Middle East (Abrahamics) or Far East (Dharmic). Many of them spread more successfully than the Baha'i Faith did.
How serious is this diversity of worship to be taken. Quoting some parts of a religious scripture out of context doesn't give full understanding of the religion in question. Some time ago, some Bahai mentioned that visiting a temple of another religion as a tourist would give him a better understanding of his religion. Likewise, quoting parts of scriptures out of context is some sort of spiritual tourism, meant to make the interested person feel good by creating the feeling "of having something in common", when in reality the purpose is to make people convert to Baha'ullah.
When I was a kid, there was this hype around "Not Without My Daughter", together with the tendentious film adaptation. It might be a considerable marketing problem to apparently blow the horn of wishy-washy tolerance, only to sell people yet another prophet with an exclusive truth, from Iran of all places, a country not known for religious tolerance.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
There is a certain about of uniformity that is expected. Like believing what Baha'u'llah says and the Baha'i covenants and things of that sort. Like the covenant breakers may believe everything about the Baha'i Faith but not believe that Shoghi Effendi is the rightful guardian. Or, believe that after he died that their leader is the new guardian or whatever the other covenant breakers might believe. Then there are those whose behavior requires sanctions, so their voting rights are taken away. Like even Christians accept all people from all races and from all religions to become Christians. So there is now unity in their Christian beliefs.