Paul Saved on the road?

Nova2216 said:

* Many people think man is saved by grace "alone". They will then turn right around and say they are saved by faith alone and grace alone.

It cannot be both!!!

I know what alone means.

If I'm in a room alone no one is in the room with me.


They read (Eph.2:8) and think this supports their position.

The Ephesians were saved in (Acts 19:1-6).

Please notice they were baptized twice in water in this text.

1. Johns baptism was for the forgiveness of sins and was in water immersion (Mark 1:4) (Jn 3:23). But Johns baptism was out of date. It was no longer valid.

2. Paul directs them to the baptism in the name of Christ.

Notice what it means to preach Christ.

(Acts 8:5,12)

5. Then Philip ... preached Christ unto them.

12. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Question - How did they know about baptism?


What KIND of BAPTISM were they teaching?


(Acts 8:26-40)

35 Then Philip ...... preached unto him Jesus.

Notice the results of preaching Jesus.

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot tostand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. 39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Notice he went on his way rejoicing after being baptized and not before.


Water baptism is the one baptism (Eph.4:5) is speaking about.

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,


Thanks

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I believe the verse says saved by grace through faith.

Muffled said:

I believe Adam and Abraham were Islamic. You are speaking of Mohammad as an adherent of Islam.

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Islam and Mohammed went hand in hand. There was no Islam religion before then.

I mean that as long as he was hearing and obeying he was saved. A Christian is eternally saved because our salvation does not depend on us but depends on Jesus.

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Thank you for explaining. That does not explain away Saul still being in his sins by the time Ananias reached him Acts 22:16.

e.r.m. said:

Islam and Mohammed went hand in hand. There was no Islam religion before then.

I believe the religion called Islam did not exist before Mohammed but the concept of Islam has always existed.

Thank you for explaining. That does not explain away Saul still being in his sins by the time Ananias reached him Acts 22:16.

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I believe Ananias may have retained that concept from the Baptism of John but it is not Christian doctrine. Otherwise it would have to be viewed that Jesus was being baptized to wash away his sin but that is not the case because he is without sin. So for John it was antithetical but for Jesus it was just a display of what already was.

e.r.m. said:

That's good. Then, since it's not 'alone', it does not exclude baptism.

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I believe if by having faith in baptism one has faith in the Grace of God then it is included but if the faith is in the water of baptism then the salvation by grace has been excluded and the baptism is meaningless. I was saved by grace because I had faith in God. I was baptized seven years after that. I had already been saved for seven years.

Muffled said:

I believe if by having faith in baptism one has faith in the Grace of God then it is included

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I'm not sure what what you mean by included.
Acts 19:2-3 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” [3] So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?” “John's baptism,” they replied.

Galatians 3:26-27 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, [27] for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Paul included baptism in his definition of faith on at least two ocassions, the one in Acts 19 being in Ephesus.

but if the faith is in the water of baptism then the salvation by grace has been excluded and the baptism is meaningless.

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Agreed. And when the faith is in God that we are saved when we believe and are baptized, as is the case in Churches of Christ, then Grace is not excluded and the baptism is not meaningless.

I was saved by grace because I had faith in God. I was baptized seven years after that. I had already been saved for seven years.

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This is not proof to the contrary, this is just stating your belief. And in this case you're not saying faith but faith alone, because you are excluding baptism. You would need to present scriptural proof for this faith alone belief.

Muffled said:

I believe Ananias may have retained that concept from the Baptism of John but it is not Christian doctrine. Otherwise it would have to be viewed that Jesus was being baptized to wash away his sin but that is not the case because he is without sin. So for John it was antithetical but for Jesus it was just a display of what already was.

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Acts 19:1-5 establishes that baptism in Jesus's name, the same baptism that Ananias prescribed Saul, the same one that Peter prescribed to the crowd in Acts 2:37-39, is different than John's baptism, they're not the same.

Muffled said:

I believe if by having faith in baptism one has faith in the Grace of God then it is included but if the faith is in the water of baptism then the salvation by grace has been excluded and the baptism is meaningless. I was saved by grace because I had faith in God. I was baptized seven years after that. I had already been saved for seven years.

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Salvation takes place in the mind of God (Heaven). It is possible for a man to think he is saved when he is not. We see this in (Mt. 7:21-23). These people claimed to have called on the name of the Lord and also claimed to do many works for the Lord, yet the Lord told the He NEVER KNEW THEM. (Mt.7:21-23).