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Raised right

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Do you think religion harms children? If I had to make an educated guess, if religion didn't exist, the same people who think homosexuality is wrong and oppose abortion would still be around. Religion doesn't create people who are for a certain behavior imo, so why would it create people who oppose certain behaviors?
Religion is a tool. By itself it doesn’t really do much. But it can be used to justify just about anything, even things incongruent to it’s own philosophy and teachings. It can also be used as a controlling tool to get people to go along with certain ideas or “missions” that they might not be comfortable with themselves. Like say hurting children. That can happen too.
It can also be a powerful philosophical tool, allowing people to find peace and come to terms with their reality. Or find solace in their life.
Some religions act moreso as a connection to tradition and heritage, especially for kids of immigrants. So there are some positives and negatives to it. But as with anything too much can be a little dangerous.
Religion is neutral imo. But it is often wielded in very strange sometimes contradictory ways. And as a tool, it can be particularly potent.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Religion tends to develop dogmatic religion. And dogmatic religion hurts children and other people.

If you look at the societies that think it is OK to kill homosexuals, it tends to be because of the religious convictions of those in that society. The reason for the hatred is declared as being because it is against 'God's rule'..

Societies without a monotheistic foundation tend to be more moderate about homosexuality. Not always, but usually.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
The homosexuality referred to in both Hebrew and Christian Scripture was understood as an act of perversion. Unfortunately some people choose to retain that interpretation in the 21st century.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
I really doubt it, because religion is what teaches that hatred towards homosexuals.
And speaking for myself, Christianity left me severely depressed and suicidal. It was agreat detriment to my development into adulthood, and left me impaired in many ways.

No, it doesn't. Some versions of a variate group of interpretations of which what is called Christianity teaches that. Christianity is a diverse as humans are diverse, so some version teach against homosexuals and other in favor of it.

Now I get where you are coming from. Normality teaches against me as an Aspie. Or if you like "neuro-typicalism" does so. But that is only some neuro-typical humans who do that.

Love
Mikkel
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Religion tends to develop dogmatic religion. And dogmatic religion hurts children and other people.

If you look at the societies that think it is OK to kill homosexuals, it tends to be because of the religious convictions of those in that society. The reason for the hatred is declared as being because it is against 'God's rule'..

Societies without a monotheistic foundation tend to be more moderate about homosexuality. Not always, but usually.

Not it doesn't. If it always tended to towards dogmatic religion, then we wouldn't have liberal religion, humanism, human rights and so on.
Your bias is showing. Religion is not a single thing. It is a human behavior embedded into the rest of human behavior.
This is religion as per science.
Religion, human beings’ relation to that which they regard as holy, sacred, absolute, spiritual, divine, or worthy of especial reverence. It is also commonly regarded as consisting of the way people deal with ultimate concerns about their lives and their fate after death. In many traditions, this relation and these concerns are expressed in terms of one’s relationship with or attitude toward gods or spirits; in more humanistic or naturalistic forms of religion, they are expressed in terms of one’s relationship with or attitudes toward the broader human community or the natural world. In many religions, texts are deemed to have scriptural status, and people are esteemed to be invested with spiritual or moral authority. Believers and worshippers participate in and are often enjoined to perform devotional or contemplative practices such as prayer, meditation, or particular rituals. Worship, moral conduct, right belief, and participation in religious institutions are among the constituent elements of the religious life.
...
religion | Definition, Types, & List of Religions

Stay with strong hard science and math or learn to check your claims.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Do you think religion harms children? If I had to make an educated guess, if religion didn't exist, the same people who think homosexuality is wrong and oppose abortion would still be around. Religion doesn't create people who are for a certain behavior imo, so why would it create people who oppose certain behaviors?

Upbringing obviously shapes who you are, children are taught from early on to hate or oppose, to accept and to welcome. If that teaching includes the bible then yes, the child will learn to hate some things.

I believe that without the bible and its traching some handed down hatred's would be far less of a problem than they are.

Of course there would still be a small percentage of haters taught to hate for different reasons.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
No, it doesn't. Some versions of a variate group of interpretations of which what is called Christianity teaches that. Christianity is a diverse as humans are diverse, so some version teach against homosexuals and other in favor of it.

Now I get where you are coming from. Normality teaches against me as an Aspie. Or if you like "neuro-typicalism" does so. But that is only some neuro-typical humans who do that.

Love
Mikkel
Im also an Aspie. Largely and mostly, normal society doesn't contain passage (or, teach and promote) that we are abominations, that we must be put to death, and that our blood is in our hands. That is what the Bible says and commands regarding homosexuals.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Im also an Aspie. Largely and mostly, normal society doesn't contain passage (or, teach and promote) that we are abominations, that we must be put to death, and that our blood is in our hands. That is what the Bible says and commands regarding homosexuals.

Yeah, you have probably had it worse than me. I mean I didn't get the help I need, when I needed. Only as a result of other factors, I have learned to deal with being an Apsie at the age 50+ years.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Religion doesn't teach bigotry; that's an innate human (ego) response. But it too often does ratify and encourage it when it is supposed to be doing the opposite.
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.(Leviticus 20:13)
.For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. (Romans 1:26-27)
That is ugly, nasty hate, and it is taugyt and commanded by Jehovah's so-called "holy" book.
 

King Phenomenon

Well-Known Member
You have to understand, I'm not suggesting any religion could cause someone to do something extreme.

But a child born to the Children of God (as a more extreme example) can definitely be caused to do harm by religious beliefs.

To draw a similar parallel, do political beliefs cause people to do harm? Meh...maybe not usually, but they can, and have, and will.
Oh I knew you weren't
 

King Phenomenon

Well-Known Member
Super big questions, PS....

"Do you think religion harms children?"
  • Blind faith, yes harmful.
  • Distrust of Science, yes harmful.
  • Shame of the human body, yes harmful.
  • Discouraging critical thinking skills, yes harmful
  • Calvinist Predestination / Caste system, yes harmful
  • Encouraging War as the appropriate means to settle territorial conflict, yes harmful
I could go on, and on, and on.... It really comes down to the parents. IF the parents are able to mitigate these risks then, no, religion does not harm children.

"if religion didn't exist, the same people who think homosexuality is wrong and oppose abortion would still be around."

Really, why? Because of procreation? Gay sex would be like, what? a form of birth control... IDK, I'm just thinking outside the box.

"Religion doesn't create people who are for a certain behavior imo, so why would it create people who oppose certain behaviors?"

Well. I can't say for sure, I wasn't there when the Law was given to Moses. But, if you believe the story, certain families had certain jobs to do. But one thing that all the families were told to do was, Gen 1:28. Be fruitful and multiply. So, if you can put yourself in that scene. Approx. 1500BCE, in the desert, you had just witnessed the plagues, the parting of the red sea... it was an awesome devastating time to be alive.

Now, doesn't it make sense in that scene that G-d would know best **how** to be fruitful and multiply? And therefore if G-d, the one responsible for all those plagues and miracles tells you... in no uncertain terms ... "Hey you boys... 'Tab A' goes into 'Slot B', no exceptions"... that the people would listen and take heed?

Remember Gen 1:28, arguably the very first commandment given, be fruitful, multiply. Than means.... PowerStone, no birth control. Birth control is a violation of Gen 1:28. So, it's not really just anti-homosexuality. it's..... drum roll.... Pro-creation. I repeat, not anti-homosexual, it is Pro-Creation.

Does that help? :D

( disclaimer all of this is offered through the lens of Left Wing Modern Orthodox Judaism )
Unfortunately I don't have that answer as to why opposers and haters would still be around if there was no religious texts. As far as birth control goes I disregard the Bibles teachings of birth control. Just one of the many things I put in the trash regarding religious texts.
 

King Phenomenon

Well-Known Member
Instead of 'Raised right' you might like to think of 'Allowed to grow naturally', and where the influences that enter or control their lives might very well be those that diminish or restrict them as individuals - and possibly based upon where they were born. Why would anyone want to restrict the development of their children, especially when any belief might come from some disputed text from long ago?

Homosexuality has been seen in a variety of ways in the past, and often accepted without condemnation. It seems that for some religions it is an issue for whatever reason, and one can hardly dismiss this when you will come across (even on this forum) people saying, 'according to my religion, homosexuality is whatever (bad thing)'.
Allowed to grow naturally would be being raised right so I have nothing to consider IMO
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Unfortunately I don't have that answer as to why opposers and haters would still be around if there was no religious texts.
I do not know either.

In Judaism, G-d knows that.

No-one , nothing, else .
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Do you think religion harms children? If I had to make an educated guess, if religion didn't exist, the same people who think homosexuality is wrong and oppose abortion would still be around. Religion doesn't create people who are for a certain behavior imo, so why would it create people who oppose certain behaviors?

I think what harms people most is screwy notions like this.
  1. You are killing a child.
  2. Whatever you want to do in the bedroom is not my business. I personally may not be in favor of homosexuality, but consenting adults should be allowed to behave as they wish.
  3. You are killing a child.
Whether you want to be gay or not, once you are of the age of consent, that's up to you. But neither the church nor the schools nor the state ought to be trying to tell people they might be gay. This is a decision.

"Being gay is a choice" does not mean "you have to make this choice the way I think you ought to." That violates the principles of what choice actually is. Choice is freedom to make your own decisions. I would seriously question anyone who told you that you do not have this freedom. They are trying to enslave you.

Which brings us to the second "choice." When you are pregnant, your so-called choice ends with you deciding whether pregnant in the first place. This is called taking responsibility, and if you're not sure you can, don't do it. Once you choose to have sex, once you choose to bring life in this world by having sex with some dude, this choice isn't about you. It's about you taking away a child's choices, all of them, so you can be free to continue your vapid bachelor life. If you are concerned about not being able to take care of a child, buy a basket and some cloth. Safe haven laws exist everywhere, and you can just leave a crying baby at a door to some building and drive off.

That this isn't even an option you consider means you weren't raised right. You weren't raised as a human being with compassion for other human life. Better that you should have sex with the same sex if you want to not have a child, than that you should create a pregnancy then abort.
 

February-Saturday

Devil Worshiper
I think "religion" is too broad. I don't think we could ever make a concrete case that religion as a whole is either a good thing or a bad thing, because religion is too diverse.

I do think that a lot of running themes in religion, like faith-based reasoning, teaching against questions, and justifying broad societal failures through tradition (like the caste system or the subjugation of women) are pretty harmful to live in, much less grow up in.

At the same time, organized religions do serve an important function. They provide a community that holds itself to agreed-upon values. That sort of order can be integral to a society's ability to survive and flourish.

It's really a debate between individualism and collectivism, which I think is ultimately subjective. There's unfortunately not a right answer there. Personally, I wouldn't sacrifice my child's individualism for the greater good or collective well-being. Sue me.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Unfortunately I don't have that answer as to why opposers and haters would still be around if there was no religious texts.

Mostly evolutionary favoritism of in-group versus out-group. Religion tends to promote those identifications and so can increase the separation, but I think the underpinnings are deeper.

One thing that is interesting: oxytocin, which is the brain chemical that promotes pair-bonding and cooperation ALSO seems to promote out-group violence.
 

King Phenomenon

Well-Known Member
I think "religion" is too broad. I don't think we could ever make a concrete case that religion as a whole is either a good thing or a bad thing, because religion is too diverse.

I do think that a lot of running themes in religion, like faith-based reasoning, teaching against questions, and justifying broad societal failures through tradition (like the caste system or the subjugation of women) are pretty harmful.

At the same time, organized religions do serve an important function. They provide a community that holds itself to agreed-upon values. That sort of order can be integral to a society's ability to survive and flourish.

It's really a debate between individualism and collectivism, which I think is ultimately subjective. There's unfortunately not a right answer there.
Faith based reasoning has not harmed me. Unfortunately it may harm others.
 
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