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something on my mind about jesus and his family

74x12

Well-Known Member
If jesus would have been born into a rich family.Would it have helped him more in his mission on earth?:)
No, He came to experience suffering and pain. To rescue the poor, afflicted and the humble people on the earth. He wanted to experience the pain we go through. He did not try to avoid suffering.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
If jesus would have been born into a rich family.Would it have helped him more in his mission on earth?:)

The goal was not to come to the earth to teach humans about God, the real goal was for Jesus to experience a typical human life so Jesus could judge which humans He would allow into heaven and which He would not. Jesus controls the gateway to heaven. He sets the standards for those who get in and who can't.
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
If jesus would have been born into a rich family.Would it have helped him more in his mission on earth?:)

Considering that a in the narrative of the Gospels, Jesus abandons his familly and his former friends to start a new life as an errant preacher, that wouldn't have changed much. I would note though that Jesus, while not born in a rich familly wasn't born in an especially poor one. His father, Jospeh, was a carpenter, which means he was a skilled artisan something that by standard of the time would make you a "middle class person".
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Interesting that Jehovah sent His son to a materially poor family, isn’t it?

But they were lovers of God first.

That’s the important thing.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
If jesus would have been born into a rich family.Would it have helped him more in his mission on earth?:)

The parents of Jesus were indeed poor when he was born, this is supported by the fact that they could not afford a lamb for the ceremony of purification, in the temple in Jerusalem when he was 41 days old, but two years later when the wise men came from the east and showered the family with gifts of Gold, frank-incense, and myrrh they were very comfortable indeed.

Leviticus 12: 3-8; "On the eighth day, the child shall be circumcised. Then it will be 33 more days before she is ritually clean from her loss of blood; she must not touch anything that is holy or enter the sacred Tent until the time of her purification is completed.

For fourteen days after a woman gives birth to a daughter, she is ritually unclean, as she is during her monthly period. Then it will be 66 more days before she is ritually clean from her loss of blood.

When the time of her purification is completed, whether for a son or daughter, she shall bring to the priest at the entrance of the Tent of the LORD's presence a one-year-old lamb for a burnt offering and a pigeon or a dove for a sin offering. The priest shall present her offering to the Lord and perform the ritual to take away her impurity, and she will be ritually clean. This, then, is what a woman must do after giving birth.

If the woman cannot afford a lamb, she shall bring two doves or two pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering, and the priest shall perform the ritual to take away her impurity, and she will be ritually clean.

Luke 2: 22-24; "The time came for Joseph and Mary to perform the ceremony of purification, as the Law of Moses commanded. So they took the child to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord, as it is written in the law of the Lord (This was 41 days after the birth of the baby Jesus.) “Every firstborn male is to be dedicated to the Lord.” 24They also went to offer a sacrifice of a pair of doves or two young pigeons, as required by the law of the Lord.
 
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syo

Well-Known Member
If jesus would have been born into a rich family.Would it have helped him more in his mission on earth?:)
Money again?

jesus said "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God"
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
If jesus would have been born into a rich family.Would it have helped him more in his mission on earth?:)
Didn't make a difference on his mission.

Remember, as a child wise men gave his family myth, frankincense, and gold. they used it to live in Egypt for a time
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
jesus said "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God"
Is not a problem if they make donation to the Church.
Bezos, Gates, Arnault, Zuckerberg, Buffett, Ballmer, Ellison, Ortega, Ambani and Page.
(There is a mistake in the list. MacKenzie Bezos is not listed here)
 

syo

Well-Known Member
Is not a problem if they make donation to the Church.
Bezos, Gates, Arnault, Zuckerberg, Buffett, Ballmer, Ellison, Ortega, Ambani and Page.
(There is a mistake in the list. MacKenzie Bezos is not listed here)
I don't know :shrug:
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Didn't make a difference on his mission.

Remember, as a child wise men gave his family myth, frankincense, and gold. they used it to live in Egypt for a time

The family only stayed in Egypt for a few months before the death of Herod the Great. The wise men had seen the heavenly sign in 6 BC, that had heralded the birth pf Jesus.

Matthew 2: 1-2; Jesus was born in the town of Bethlehem in Judea, during the time when Herod was king. Afterwards, some men who studied the stars came from the east to Jerusalem and asked, “Where is the baby born to be the king of the Jews? We saw his star when it came up in the east, and we have come to worship him.”

Matthew 2: 7; "So Herod called the visitors from the east to a secret meeting and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared. "

Matthew 2: 16; "When Herod realized that the visitors from the east had tricked him, he was furious. He gave orders to kill all the boys who were two years old and younger — this was done in accordance with what he had learned from the visitors about the time when the star had appeared.

The wise men came in 4 BC, two years after Jesus was born in 6 BC. and Herod the Great who ordered the slaughter of the two year old children in 4 BC, died in the spring of 4 BC, after a failed suicide attempt.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
The family only stayed in Egypt for a few months before the death of Herod the Great. The wise men had seen the heavenly sign in 6 BC, that had heralded the birth pf Jesus.

Matthew 2: 1-2; Jesus was born in the town of Bethlehem in Judea, during the time when Herod was king. Afterwards, some men who studied the stars came from the east to Jerusalem and asked, “Where is the baby born to be the king of the Jews? We saw his star when it came up in the east, and we have come to worship him.”

Matthew 2: 7; "So Herod called the visitors from the east to a secret meeting and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared. "

Matthew 2: 16; "When Herod realized that the visitors from the east had tricked him, he was furious. He gave orders to kill all the boys who were two years old and younger — this was done in accordance with what he had learned from the visitors about the time when the star had appeared.

The wise men came in 4 BC, two years after Jesus was born in 6 BC. and Herod the Great who ordered the slaughter of the two year old children in 4 BC, died in the spring of 4 BC, after a failed suicide attempt.
It is estimated that it could have been up to but no more that 2 years
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
It is estimated that it could have been up to but no more that 2 years

Estimated by who?

As it was prophesied, that a heavenly event would herald the birth of the promised Messiah, we must ask if there was any significant heavenly event in 6 BC.

"Astronomy, Astrology, and the Star of Bethlehem." BY John Clevenger of the Lake Country Astronomical Society," which says as follows, "Did any unusual astronomical phenomenon occur between 8 and 2 BC? As it happens there were several notable celestial events during that period. The Chinese astronomical records, which have proved very reliable, reported two comets during that time. The comet of 5 BC which was visible for 70 days, was reported to have a tail. Professor Humphreys of Cambridge University believes that this comet, which he describes as having a vertical tail, appeared at the time of the Jewish Passover. Professor Humpherys believed that this started the Magi, who were knowledgeable of the Jewish prophecy recorded in the book of Micah, concerning the birth of a Jewish king, on their journey.

If right about the vertical tail, this could agree with the biblical account in Matthew that the "Star Stood Over" [THE HOUSE] where the young child was" as the term “STOOD OVER” in ancient literature, according to Professor Humphreys of Cambridge University, refers to comets and comets only.

The comet of 4 BC had no tail and whether it was a comet or a nova is unknown. If it was a nova in 4 BC, which is the death of a star, it would have coincided with the death of Herod the Great in that same year. While historians have usually suggested that comets were always bad omens. Humphreys believes that history shows them to be either good or bad omens.

.I could use any of a number of authorities to supply evidence of the 6 BC triple conjunction of the "King Planet" Jupiter, with Mars, the “God of War” and Saturn the “God of Time,” who brings the golden age of peace to the earth, which I believe was read by the wise men as the sign that was prophesied to herald the birth of the promised King, (Jupiter) who was to succeed to the throne of David the warrior king, (Mars) as the prophesied Messianic King of Israel, who is to come and subdue the surrounding Nations and bring in the golden Age of one thousand years of peace. (Saturn.)

All short period comets which re-appear every two hundred years of less, have their aphelia in the orbit of Jupiter and even up until relatively recent times, those short period comets were thought to have been created from material ejected from the King Planet Jupiter and were called the family of Jupiter.

The comet of early 5 B.C., would have been captured by the gravitation pull of the triple conjunction, and IMO, would have been seen by the wise men as the child born of the glorious expanded body of Jupiter the King planet, and it was this that set them on their Journey to Israel.

The Comet of 5 B.C., which is said to have a tail and remained visible to those in the northern hemisphere for 70 days and led the Magi to the child Jesus in Nazareth, would have been very similar to the comet Hale-bopp, which was first seen March 1-10 low on the eastern horizon

By May 8, the Comet Hale-Bopp would be approaching its last hurrah, and would have become increasingly difficult to see low in the fading glow of sunset.

During the next week or two, you could still follow the fading comet right down into the sunset with the naked eye or binoculars, etc.

The Comet, or Hairy star as they were called in those days, would have first been seen low on the eastern horizon, having of itself no apparent movement other than being one among the background of stars that appear to travel from the east to the west according to the rotation of the earth, and yet each night it would appear in a different heavenly position relative to the background stars as it travelled toward the western horizon in its 70 days of visibility in the northern hemisphere.

The title "wise men" is translated from the original Greek word magos. The word refers to a priest of the Persian religion Zoroastrianism. These priests, or magi, frequently looked to the stars for signs of the future and gained an international reputation for astrology and revelation/divination.

It is more than probable that the "wise men" were in fact Zoroastrian priests from Persia. And as there was a sizable Jewish presence in Babylon at that time, they obviously studied the old Hebrew scriptures. (Historians estimate that there were about 6-7 million Jews living in the Roman Empire (plus another 1 million from Persia.)

Although the history of the Jews in Iraq in the 5th century BCE is largely unknown, we know that the exiles were allowed to practice their religion while in Persia, and that they would have established schools/colleges in which to teach the children born while they were in exile.

The Bible also states that when the magi found the child Jesus, they "fell down and worshiped him." This verse references or indicates bowing, kneeling or prostration, which was generally viewed by both the ancient Jews and Romans as undignified, and in Jewish tradition was reserved for their God alone. However, for Persians, bowing or kneeling was a sign of respect generally directed toward kings.

I believe that the Bible should only be interpreted by the scriptures themselves. The Books of the Bible are like wheels of perfectly interlocking cogs, wheels within wheels, here a little and there a little etc.

To be continued,
 
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The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Continued from post #17.

Luke tells us that Mary gave birth to her firstborn son in the town of Bethlehem of Judea, as opposed to the Bethlehem, which was about two miles from Nazareth in Galilee, and that eight days after the child was born, it was circumcised and named Jesus. Then thirty-three days later, and before the wise men from the east had come and lavished their gifts of Gold, Frank-incense and mire, on the baby Jesus, he was taken OPENLY to the temple in Jerusalem by his not so financial parents, where his mother performed the purification ceremony, in accordance to the time demanded by the law handed down through Moses.

And after they had completed everything in ACCORDANCE TO THE LAW, they returned to their home in Nazareth. Luke makes no mention of any wise men traveling to Bethlehem of Judaea, or of any slaughter of the innocents.

How do we know, even though it is not mentioned in Luke, that it was thirty-three days after the circumcision that the ceremony of purification was performed? Because Luke says, "And when the days of her purification ACCORDING TO THE LAW OF MOSES were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord.

According to scripture, the child was taken to the temple in Jerusalem for the ceremony of purification at the correct time demanded by the law of Moses, which was 41 days after the birth, immediately after which, the family returned to their home in Nazareth.

To find out when the days of her purification according to the Law of Moses were accomplished, we simply turn to Leviticus 12: 3-4; and let the Bible reveal itself to us: (3) On the eighth day the child shall be circumcised. (4) Then it shall be 33 more days until she is ritually clean from her loss of blood; etc.

How do we know that the parents of Jesus were not flushed financially? Again, we must let the Bible reveal that to us, Leviticus 12: 8, "If the woman cannot afford a lamb, she shall bring two doves or pigeons etc," the fact that the birds were offered, shows that they were unable to afford a lamb, and had not yet received the gifts of Gold, etc.

How long was it before the wise men, after seeing the comet early in the spring of 5 BC, which is believed to have been the inspiration for them to travel to Jerusalem, decided that they should go to pay homage to the heir of that throne, and to organize that trip? And how long did it take them to travel from Mesopotamia to Jerusalem?

The only help that we receive from the Bible is found in Ezra 7: 8-9; "They (Ezra and his group) left Babylonia on the first day of the first month, and with God’s help they arrived in Jerusalem on the first day of the fifth month."


Four months, it took them to travel to Jerusalem. Even if we halve that time and take into account that the comet which inspired them to travel to Jerusalem had not appeared until sometime after the triple conjunction of 6 BC, which had heralded the birth of Jesus, there is no possible way that the wise men could have seen the baby Jesus in the manger in Bethlehem of Judaea, as the family (According to Luke) had returned to Nazareth 2 months after the birth of the child in Bethlehem.

On bright moonlit or cloudy nights or dust storms, the comet would be hidden from view, and apparently this was what had happened before they reached Jerusalem and went to the Palace of Herod and asked; Matthew 2: 2-“Where is the baby born to be the king of the Jews? We saw his star when it came up in the east, and we have come to worship him.”

They believed that the child had been already been born.


Matthew 2: 7; So Herod called the visitors from the east to a secret meeting and found out from them the exact time that the star had appeared, etc.

After revealing to Herod in 4 B.C., the exact time that they had seen the heavenly sign that had heralded the birth of the promised Messiah, we read in Matthew 2: 16; it was in accordance to this information that Herod determined the age of the children who were to be slaughtered, all those who had been born in 6 B.C., or after. This reveals that the wise men had seen the star that had heralded the birth of Jesus, almost two years previously.

Having been told that the child was prophesied to be born in Bethlehem of Judaea, (Although we know from Luke that the family had left Bethlehem 41 days after the child had been born and had returned to their home in Nazareth) the wise men Left the palace of Herod, and behold, there in the north norwest of Jerusalem, the star that they had seen in the east, was visible once again, and Oh what joy was theirs.

Traveling north in the direction of the hairy star, we can almost picture the scene, the wise men with their entourage travelling along the dusty roads of northern Israel, it’s late in the day and as they come to a rise, there, just above the distant horizon, in the deepening darkness of the evening sky, is the star with its tail streaming up into the heavens and appearing to STAND OVER the small and insignificant hamlet, or Zealot Commune, called "Nazareth," as it slowly followed the setting sun.

After entering, 'NOT' the manger in Bethlehem of Judah, but the ‘HOUSE’ of Joseph and Mary in Nazareth, the wise men paid homage to the child Jesus, That very same night, the wise men, who would presumably have travelled to Jerusalem across the Kings Highway, were warned in a dream not to reveal to Herod the child’s whereabouts, and they returned home by a different route from which they had come, which would, more than likely, have been up through the northern route of Damascus, and Joseph was also warned to get out of bed immediately and take the child and his mother and flee into Egypt.

Herod’s secret police had eyes and ears throughout the entire land, and when he realised that he had been tricked and the wise men were not going to return and reveal the child’s location as promised, he was furious and gave the order to kill all the male children in the district that Herod's spies had confirmed that the wise men with their entourage had travelled to, which was around Bethlehem of Galilee, who were two years and below according to the time that he learned from the wise men about when they had first sighted the star that had heralded the birth of the promised king and savour.

According to Josephus the historian, Sepphoris, which was only about 4 miles from Bethlehem of Galilee, and a few kilometres from Nazareth, had a population of around thirty thousand and he called it, "The Ornament of Galilee."

Around the time of Herod’s death in the spring of 4BC, just after he had ordered the slaughter of the innocents around the district of Bethlehem of Galilee, who were two years and below, according to the time that the wise men had seen the heavenly sign that had heralded the birth of Jesus in 6 B.C. there were riots among the peasants of the area in Galilee of which Sepphoris was the centre. Judas, the son of Hezekias attacked the arsenal of Herod in the city of Sepphoris in order to arm the peasants.

The Romans under Quintillius Varus of Syria, attacked and burnt the city, putting down the uprising in which many families died and others were taken prisoner and transported to Rome, where they were sold as slaves. But Joseph, with his wife and her child had escaped the slaughter by fleeing into Egypt.

After a failed suicide attempt, which I believe may have been an option given to him by Caesar Augustus, in the spring of 4 BC, Herod the Great died, then in the spring of 3 B.C., after the death of Herod his father, when Antipas returned from Rome where his father’s will had been ratified by Augustus, he chose and rebuilt the magnificent city of Sepphoris as his capital city for ruling over Galilee.
 
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Thief

Rogue Theologian
The goal was not to come to the earth to teach humans about God, the real goal was for Jesus to experience a typical human life so Jesus could judge which humans He would allow into heaven and which He would not. Jesus controls the gateway to heaven. He sets the standards for those who get in and who can't.
let me give that a twist

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

you are in control of where you end up
likely alongside others that think and feel as you do

your position in the next life.....is your own fault
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
let me give that a twist

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

you are in control of where you end up
likely alongside others that think and feel as you do

your position in the next life.....is your own fault

Matthew 25: 31-46; “When the Son of Man comes as King and all the angels with him, he will sit on his royal throne, and the people of all the nations will be gathered before him. Then he will divide them into two groups, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the righteous people on his right and the others on his left. Then the King will say to the people on his right, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father! Come and possess the kingdom which has been prepared for you ever since the creation of the world. I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you received me in your homes, naked and you clothed me; I was sick and you took care of me, in prison and you visited me.’

“The righteous will then answer him, ‘When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you a drink? When did we ever see you a stranger and welcome you in our homes, or naked and clothe you? When did we ever see you sick or in prison, and visit you?’ The King will reply, ‘I tell you, whenever you did this for one of the least important of these members of my family, you did it for me!’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Away from me, you that are under God's curse! Away to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels! I was hungry but you would not feed me, thirsty but you would not give me a drink; I was a stranger but you would not welcome me in your homes, naked but you would not clothe me; I was sick and in prison but you would not take care of me.’

“Then they will answer him, ‘When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and would not help you?’ The King will reply, ‘I tell you, whenever you refused to help one of these least important ones, you refused to help me.’ These, then, will be sent off to the eternal punishment, (Which is the second and eternal death) but the righteous will go to eternal life.”

Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself, and you will live said Jesus.
 
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