TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Which is an assertion without evidence and as such it can be dismissed without evidence.
Here's an equivalent "argument":
Without pixies, we wouldn't be able to breath.
We breath.
Therefor pixies are real.
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What is your top-notch argument for the existence of God?
- Thread starter firedragon
- Start date
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- Tags
- atheism god god as concept theism
Which is an assertion without evidence and as such it can be dismissed without evidence.
Here's an equivalent "argument":
Without pixies, we wouldn't be able to breath.
We breath.
Therefor pixies are real.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
That makes no sense. It doesn't make sense in context of the point being made, nore does it make sense by itself.
Atheism is a position on the claims of theism, primarily that a god exists.
The position of non-belief of such claims demonstrably exists as there are people who hold that position.
By the same token, theism also exists, as there are people that hold that position as well.
I've done long versions of this argument, but I find to people who realize the premises are true, no need of long argument, and those who won't acknowledge it, no amount of words clarifying this and reminding them of it will make them acknowledge it.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Just because you can find people who accept your premises (likely becaue they already religious believed them) doesn't mean that your premises are therefor valid and supported and justified.
If "pixies allow us to breath" was part of a religion, then the followers of that religion would accept that premise as well.
The argument however, would still be guilty of employing unsupported premises.
"people believe it", is not how you support a premise.
I know how to support it, I'm just saying it's already self-evident and there is no need to, and my experience is words are words, reality is reality, God's vision is part of our reality, so those who would be reminded of it would believe and those who won't, won't no matter how many words are used to remind of it.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Ezekiel 28:13 ESV / 4 helpful votes
You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared
Revelation 7:1-17 ESV / 2 helpful votes
After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree. Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun,
with the seal of the living God,
and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea, saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad, ..
STONE, was said to be the Garden of God.
Nature however owned the Tree of Life, wood which involved the sacrifice of man by his Father's science to be given image in the Heavens. With the claim to join with his Father whose image was already in the Heavens as the science Creator of God.
Which is a totally different theme, God in science.
Now if males today the writers, as proven claim God themes/man want to argue about science, then why is it a separate practice from the body of the planet/stone O Earth?
You imposed a God science, and God science did not invent the Planet, you can only do science as a human, as a group choice and belief, and then change the planet. God sciences is God science.
You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared
Revelation 7:1-17 ESV / 2 helpful votes
After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree. Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun,
with the seal of the living God,
and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea, saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad, ..
STONE, was said to be the Garden of God.
Nature however owned the Tree of Life, wood which involved the sacrifice of man by his Father's science to be given image in the Heavens. With the claim to join with his Father whose image was already in the Heavens as the science Creator of God.
Which is a totally different theme, God in science.
Now if males today the writers, as proven claim God themes/man want to argue about science, then why is it a separate practice from the body of the planet/stone O Earth?
You imposed a God science, and God science did not invent the Planet, you can only do science as a human, as a group choice and belief, and then change the planet. God sciences is God science.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Almost everyone? I'd say Mormons, JWs and Muslims are the ones who emphasize prophecy that is demonstrably false, and others, less so.
Meanwhile, the Bible has fulfilled prophecy--for example, predicting that Israel would be restored as a Jewish nation in May 1948! Extraordinary!
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Interesting, since Jesus exactly describes the diaspora, persecution and return to the Holy Land for the Jewish people, and many other things, in the NT. It's the prescience of Christ and the love of Christ that drove me to trust Jesus--as a Jew--for eternal life.
So let's not accept an ad populum argument, from either of us.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
Atheism believes there is no god but there is no proof that there is no god. Therefore one cannot believe something does not exist without proof that it does not exist.
If you find yourself in heaven/hell/nirvana/Valhalla. Some spiritual place after you die. Finding yourself having some type of existence after you physically die. You might start giving some credibility to the idea of God.
Anything you experience or observe while you are alive could probably have a dozen possible explanations for. So you got to die to find out. More of a self argument since I don't suppose you'll be conversing with anyone living. Kind of a catch 22, if you're alive, all you got is faith. If you're dead then you might have knowledge that would support God but be unable to tell anyone living about it.
I suppose that is more proof than argument but without proof, how much of an argument do you really have? Mostly stories about other folks that you choose to believe/have faith in.
i suggest you come back when you guys have got your acts together. You have zero chance to convince a skeptic about prophecy, when you cannot even convince theists who share the prophecy part of your scriptures.
ciao
- viole
What would you think about:
God is the creator of this world and everything in this world. This world exists, so God also exists.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Everyone says, a higher state had to exist before the hot dense state in space.
So males in science know that the hot dense state is IN space.
Space the emptiness, what allowed that presence.
So then science says, the hot dense state is self consuming, what stopped it from being self consuming.
Science then says, the hottest point, dense state consumed opened to space, combusted out presence of mass. Spatial expansion of greatest heating opening more and more space.
That information he says is why everything cooled and became held form....cold space, empty space and pressure of space. So in his psyche the science self says so space is a Creator entity, by determined human self imposed referencing...the storyteller.
So then everyone would ask, where did the hot dense state come from, it had to have come from a higher state, and space, emptiness is not that place.
Eternal they say......why science as a document spoke about the eternal.
Science therefore said as a male stated, group agreement space is a mystery that can never be solved.
In human life my Mother is my memory. Her spirit memories gave me spiritual visions and it was like I lived her presence. In her vision I came out of spirit as an owned spirit and converted into a human, so I became less than myself.
By becoming less than myself I was then aware of where I came from, for it was still communicating to me.
The theme God caused me to exist is the following eternal advice.
Spirit only spoke in the eternal by spirit. A spirit body would manifest up and then move into the body of the family member in spirit as their language. It was of interest to the spirit as to who that extra spirit was, their language.
So a family member decided to implement change to study it. Biggest mistake of their eternal being. o O God sounds emerged in the eternal as changed language.
Because the spirit could no longer enter the body of the eternal being, then God o O forced change. God did come out of the eternal into its own fall. The eternal mass surrounding o O emerging God o O thinned. O o sounds of eternal mass were heavier.......spirit taught me that it dropped into a U, the dip into the womb body first.
U o and O fell into that U shape and burst....O space opened as a hole in the eternal, with o O God bodies bursting and became the hot dense state.
The story and theme GOD in science creation, where did it come from.
Spirit memory says, when God O the Earth as a stone entity released its gases, it filled up space, where the eternal once resided. So it contacted the eternal as a lower body, our heavens is the lowest body of the state eternal.
Spirit was manifested by God O heavens communicating mass presence to the eternal, and we got released. Why all bodies in Nature own the same presence, eternal first, separated eternal presence x mass of each spirit.
Manifesting into the Earth God atmosphere, God owner of light converted our eternal bodies...and we all owned form. We however did not own death.
Father's human memory about God says, he could de manifest due to night time, but was forced back out again in the day light. So his spirit, the scientist male group said they were stuck.
Why science for self removal was invented, for it was believed that God O had done an act of evil to the eternal spirit. How it was taught.
The biggest mistake of our eternal spiritual life. When the UFO entered our atmosphere burning, it evaporated a huge amount of Earth's natural atmosphere, so the Heavens changed.
We were then cut off from returning into the eternal and instead laid down and died as the cause of science activation.
Why science that continues with UFO radiation gave us early age death, one worse scenario.
Humans in science studies were told that our cell is a non ending replication/presence that does not die until the human does. So it is a constant cellular presence that changes and continues to exist. How it is explained as being a self proof that we came from the eternal. Why we owned no beginning and we the LIVING own no end.
Death was not our end, it was a cause and effect of changing the Nature of the Earth heavens, and due to space irradiation being hot, it evaporates the water mass that we use to survive. Exactly how it was taught.
So today you would ask why any science self for invention would intricately be studying what our cell never owned, shut off/cut off like a machine reaction does to own a O mass to then convert that mass into a lower form to own a channel from it, claiming it is copying our life cell...when our cell never cut off anything?
The Bible says the mathematical probability is a human owned inferred status, for since when does science own all of the huge natural mass of bodies present that he studies.
Coercion is a part of Satanic language and self expression and you are all proven to have been fooled and coerced by the scientist.
Psalm 14:1 1The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.
So males in science know that the hot dense state is IN space.
Space the emptiness, what allowed that presence.
So then science says, the hot dense state is self consuming, what stopped it from being self consuming.
Science then says, the hottest point, dense state consumed opened to space, combusted out presence of mass. Spatial expansion of greatest heating opening more and more space.
That information he says is why everything cooled and became held form....cold space, empty space and pressure of space. So in his psyche the science self says so space is a Creator entity, by determined human self imposed referencing...the storyteller.
So then everyone would ask, where did the hot dense state come from, it had to have come from a higher state, and space, emptiness is not that place.
Eternal they say......why science as a document spoke about the eternal.
Science therefore said as a male stated, group agreement space is a mystery that can never be solved.
In human life my Mother is my memory. Her spirit memories gave me spiritual visions and it was like I lived her presence. In her vision I came out of spirit as an owned spirit and converted into a human, so I became less than myself.
By becoming less than myself I was then aware of where I came from, for it was still communicating to me.
The theme God caused me to exist is the following eternal advice.
Spirit only spoke in the eternal by spirit. A spirit body would manifest up and then move into the body of the family member in spirit as their language. It was of interest to the spirit as to who that extra spirit was, their language.
So a family member decided to implement change to study it. Biggest mistake of their eternal being. o O God sounds emerged in the eternal as changed language.
Because the spirit could no longer enter the body of the eternal being, then God o O forced change. God did come out of the eternal into its own fall. The eternal mass surrounding o O emerging God o O thinned. O o sounds of eternal mass were heavier.......spirit taught me that it dropped into a U, the dip into the womb body first.
U o and O fell into that U shape and burst....O space opened as a hole in the eternal, with o O God bodies bursting and became the hot dense state.
The story and theme GOD in science creation, where did it come from.
Spirit memory says, when God O the Earth as a stone entity released its gases, it filled up space, where the eternal once resided. So it contacted the eternal as a lower body, our heavens is the lowest body of the state eternal.
Spirit was manifested by God O heavens communicating mass presence to the eternal, and we got released. Why all bodies in Nature own the same presence, eternal first, separated eternal presence x mass of each spirit.
Manifesting into the Earth God atmosphere, God owner of light converted our eternal bodies...and we all owned form. We however did not own death.
Father's human memory about God says, he could de manifest due to night time, but was forced back out again in the day light. So his spirit, the scientist male group said they were stuck.
Why science for self removal was invented, for it was believed that God O had done an act of evil to the eternal spirit. How it was taught.
The biggest mistake of our eternal spiritual life. When the UFO entered our atmosphere burning, it evaporated a huge amount of Earth's natural atmosphere, so the Heavens changed.
We were then cut off from returning into the eternal and instead laid down and died as the cause of science activation.
Why science that continues with UFO radiation gave us early age death, one worse scenario.
Humans in science studies were told that our cell is a non ending replication/presence that does not die until the human does. So it is a constant cellular presence that changes and continues to exist. How it is explained as being a self proof that we came from the eternal. Why we owned no beginning and we the LIVING own no end.
Death was not our end, it was a cause and effect of changing the Nature of the Earth heavens, and due to space irradiation being hot, it evaporates the water mass that we use to survive. Exactly how it was taught.
So today you would ask why any science self for invention would intricately be studying what our cell never owned, shut off/cut off like a machine reaction does to own a O mass to then convert that mass into a lower form to own a channel from it, claiming it is copying our life cell...when our cell never cut off anything?
The Bible says the mathematical probability is a human owned inferred status, for since when does science own all of the huge natural mass of bodies present that he studies.
Coercion is a part of Satanic language and self expression and you are all proven to have been fooled and coerced by the scientist.
Psalm 14:1 1The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Millerism or JW's calculations? Well, Ive read about it. Thats fine.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
No, that's not what atheism is.
Atheism is only a position on the theistic claim It's not a claim by itself.
Not believing the claim that a god DOES exist, doesn't mean that you also make the claim that a god does NOT exist.
But that's not what atheism is.
Ever heared the gumball analogy?
Imagine a big box with an unknown number of gumballs in it. The box is closed and for one reason or another, one isn't capable of opening it up and counting the number of gumballs.
The number of gumballs in the box is either even or odd. It has to be one or the other.
The equivalent of the theist position would be "I believe there is an even number of gumballs in it".
The atheist position would then be "I see no evidence in support of that, so I don't accept that claim as a true-ism".
That by no means implies that the "atheist" will agree to the claim that it's an odd number gumballs.
It just means that the "atheist" considers the claim of it being even, is unsupported and unjustified.
This just to illustrate that not accepting claim X as true, does not imply at all that one would accept the opposite of claim X, which says that X is false.
I'm an agnostic atheist. I don't accept the claim that god exists as being true.
I also don't make the claim that god does NOT exist. And I don't make that claim, because indeed one cannot demonstrate that.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
That's a claim.
Koldo you meant logically. Well so did I. The fact that the majority is not always right is correct. But when the historical accounts agree and reflect what the majority have always believed through the ages than it is not just a matter of majority opinion it’s also established with what our past histories verify to us as well.
Tagliatelle my apologies my full reply never fully uploaded I think with the log out happening and having to log back in. Has left me feeling some tired. I not not write out fully again for now.
Last edited:
firedragon
Veteran Member
Somewhat true bro but also not true. This is your stance. But there are those who define atheism as anti-theism, and proactively canvass "there is no God".
Each person is different.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Clearly you don't, as you haven't. In fact, you didn't even do a proper attempt.
All you do is repeat your claims.
But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Go ahead and try and support your premises properly.
Clearly it isn't.
Blatant attempt at trying to dodge your burden of proof.
Agreed. Things are what they are.
This is an extra-ordinary claim in need of extra-ordinary evidence. Got any?
It's just a bare assertion without evidence. There's no rational or reasonable justification for believing it.
Or at least, if there is - you haven't shared it at all. You didn't even attempt to.
Worse even, you just literally said that you feel like you don't have to.
Well... you do. Care to try?
After all, if it is indeed, as you say, self-evident, then providing justification of the claim should be trivial.
So far, all you've got is "some pepople believe it". Not exactly convincing.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Humans had to conceptualise a Creator God theme to argue against occult Satanic UFO sciences and life attack destruction.
Why the theme was written and taught to honour the planet on which you live.
O stone philosophy and the seals of stone, jewels being crystalline fusion that science forcibly changed with Sun UFO extra radiation mass, which God does not own, it is what you use against God. Why scientists were named Satanists first.
Why you use the term IST, and claim it references in secrecy LISTS.
To your science secrecy you said the Go spells historically which is just some form of symbolic ancient male science terminology.
So an agreed ONE theme was stated. Some agreed with the title GOD the Earth stone....others said I will infer ONE also but say it is ALL. AH meaning the spirit breaths. Which is also just scientific symbolism in human expression.
As taught by male humans for male human invented sciences about creation themes....how to force God the Earth to change.
Therefore even if a human said God the Earth planet is stone.....science never agreed with that terminology, for they said I want God the Earth stone removed by UFO radiation mass with force so that I can use the power of God out of its fusion for scientific converting.
Why science was never using God, they were attacking/destroying God O the stone mass in sciences.
Relative to the preaching and coercing in human argument.
Why the theme was written and taught to honour the planet on which you live.
O stone philosophy and the seals of stone, jewels being crystalline fusion that science forcibly changed with Sun UFO extra radiation mass, which God does not own, it is what you use against God. Why scientists were named Satanists first.
Why you use the term IST, and claim it references in secrecy LISTS.
To your science secrecy you said the Go spells historically which is just some form of symbolic ancient male science terminology.
So an agreed ONE theme was stated. Some agreed with the title GOD the Earth stone....others said I will infer ONE also but say it is ALL. AH meaning the spirit breaths. Which is also just scientific symbolism in human expression.
As taught by male humans for male human invented sciences about creation themes....how to force God the Earth to change.
Therefore even if a human said God the Earth planet is stone.....science never agreed with that terminology, for they said I want God the Earth stone removed by UFO radiation mass with force so that I can use the power of God out of its fusion for scientific converting.
Why science was never using God, they were attacking/destroying God O the stone mass in sciences.
Relative to the preaching and coercing in human argument.