Solomon's big question

Redemptionsong · Jul 7, 2020

eik said:
No it is not, because the solution to this is plainly stated in scripture: 1 Kings 8:27 "But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built!" God cannot ever be restricted or contained by becoming visible.

No. The New Testament makes this very plain: "God is invisible" Colossians 1:15. What is invisible remains invisible This is a categorical and dogmatic truth. Secondly, Gal 3:19, "the law was put into effect through angels." That means everything connected with the law or its being put into effect was done by angels.

And this simply reflects the principle of agency: the angels were agents of God and had the authority to speak in his name, and to be deferred to by the name of their principal.

Not all angels are the same. In Genesis 18:1 it says, 'AND the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre:' In verse 3 it says, 'three men stood by him'. Verse 33,'And the LORD went his way'. Chapter 19:1. 'AND there came two angels to Sodom at even'.
This all makes perfect sense if you realize that the LORD, appearing as an angel, went his way and left two angels behind to go to Sodom.

Solomon posed a question but did not supply the answer. Your own conclusion to his question is that God cannot come to earth and dwell amongst men. I believe differently because the essence of God remains the same, so long as the Spirit is dwelling within a perfectly righteous/sinless vessel.

If the ocean was made of pure water and you took a flask of that water, you would still have pure water. The only way that the pure water can become contaminated is if you take pure water from the ocean and place it in a contaminated flask.

The angels were created beings, but the Angel of the LORD stands out as being different. He has the authority of God to make decisions, and not simply to pass on a message. In Genesis 18:14 the LORD speaks to Abraham and says, 'Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.'

The point about God coming to earth is not that God stops being transcendent. The immanence of God takes place whilst God (as Father) remains above. Ephesians 4:6. 'One God and Father of all, who is above all, through all, and in you all' [speaking to the Church at Ephesus]. How is this possible if God remains 'above' and never comes to earth to dwell amongst men?

Redemptionsong · Jul 7, 2020

LightofTruth said:
With reference to man, there are two types of bodies. There is the natural body(made from the earth) and the spiritual body(born from above). As Paul explains, "it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body".
The difference between the two bodies is that the natural is mortal while the spiritual is immortal.
The divine angels of God have immortal spiritual bodies. As Jesus says, "Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

"Let US make man in OUR image" refers to God and His angels. But again, the only difference in the image is that one is natural (subject to death) and the other spiritual (can not die any more).

Therefore, when the angel of the LORD appeared, he appeared in the glory of his spiritual immortal body.

The angel was referred to as LORD and God because God (the one God) sent the angel with His (God's) name upon him (the angel).

Exo 23:20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
Exo 23:21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
Exo 23:22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
Exo 23:23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.

God had put His name (LORD, YHWH) upon the angel so that they ought to recognize him as being God because God instructed them to listen to the angel as if it were God Himself speaking to them.

Men(mortal) could see the face of the angel and live, but they could not see the face of the one true God and live.

And that's why it is said, "no man has seen God at any time" (John 1:18, 1 John 4:12)

John 1:18 says that 'no man hath seen God at any time', but it also says, 'the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him'.
Then in John 3:11 Jesus says, 'Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.'
Again, John 3:30-32, 'He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.'

No man has seen God at any time because all men are sinful and not of God. But the Son of God has a spiritual insight that sinful man does not have. Only those 'born again' of the spirit can gain these insights because they come from the indwelling spirit of God.

LightofTruth · Jul 7, 2020

Redemptionsong said:
John 1:18 says that 'no man hath seen God at any time', but it also says, 'the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him'.
Then in John 3:11 Jesus says, 'Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.'
Again, John 3:30-32, 'He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.'

No man has seen God at any time because all men are sinful and not of God. But the Son of God has a spiritual insight that sinful man does not have. Only those 'born again' of the spirit can gain these insights because they come from the indwelling spirit of God.

"no man has seen God at any time". It all depends on what you believe. For example, I believe God can be physically seen, whereas another might interpret seeing God as having a spiritual insight.

God had told Moses that "no man can see my face and live" which is what i think John is alluding to when he says that. "no man has see God at any time". He means that no mortal man has ever seen the face of God. Not that God has no face, but that no mortal man has ever seen Him.

eik · Jul 7, 2020

Redemptionsong said:
Not all angels are the same. In Genesis 18:1 it says, 'AND the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre:' In verse 3 it says, 'three men stood by him'. Verse 33,'And the LORD went his way'. Chapter 19:1. 'AND there came two angels to Sodom at even'.
This all makes perfect sense if you realize that the LORD, appearing as an angel, went his way and left two angels behind to go to Sodom.

If the Lord appeared as an angel, then what you have is an angel. However I agree that not all angels are of the same rank.

Redemptionsong said:
The angels were created beings, but the Angel of the LORD stands out as being different. He has the authority of God to make decisions, and not simply to pass on a message. In Genesis 18:14 the LORD speaks to Abraham and says, 'Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.'

In Luke 1:11–19 the "angel of the Lord" says that his name is Gabriel.

Redemptionsong said:
The point about God coming to earth is not that God stops being transcendent. The immanence of God takes place whilst God (as Father) remains above. Ephesians 4:6. 'One God and Father of all, who is above all, through all, and in you all' [speaking to the Church at Ephesus]. How is this possible if God remains 'above' and never comes to earth to dwell amongst men?

This is way too gnostic. I cannot see you have any support for your idea from scripture, The bible says God is invisible. And for me, that's that. God does not manifest himself visually to anyone. Salvation is by faith not by sight. Malachi 3:6 "I the Lord do not change".

Redemptionsong · Jul 7, 2020

LightofTruth said:
"no man has seen God at any time". It all depends on what you believe. For example, I believe God can be physically seen, whereas another might interpret seeing God as having a spiritual insight.

God had told Moses that "no man can see my face and live" which is what i think John is alluding to when he says that. "no man has see God at any time". He means that no mortal man has ever seen the face of God. Not that God has no face, but that no mortal man has ever seen Him.

I'm happy to accept that the Spirit of God is invisible to man, but not that His chosen vessel should make Him anything less than God!

'My Lord and my God', as Thomas states, is a God that has made Himself known to us. God must be present to be known or recognized.

Isaiah 51:22. 'Thus saith thy Lord the LORD, and thy God that pleadeth the cause of his people, Behold, I have taken out of thine hand the cup of trembling, even the dregs of the cup of my fury; thou shalt no more drink of it again:'

Who was it, who on the mount of Olives exclaimed, 'Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done'? [Luke 22:42]

Whose will was done at Golgotha? Was it the will of God, or the will of a agonizing servant? Did not 'thy Lord the LORD' take the cup of trembling for mankind?

To my mind, there can be no doubt that Jesus Christ is the countenance and image of God. We are not given a description of Jesus, which is important, but it helps to know that he experienced life as a human, and that he understood suffering in flesh and blood. IMO, it's through this outward image that we are able to glimpse the glory of the LORD.

Redemptionsong · Jul 7, 2020

eik said:
If the Lord appeared as an angel, then what you have is an angel. However I agree that not all angels are of the same rank.

In Luke 1:11–19 the "angel of the Lord" says that his name is Gabriel.

This is way too gnostic. I cannot see you have any support for your idea from scripture, The bible says God is invisible. And for me, that's that. God does not manifest himself visually to anyone. Salvation is by faith not by sight. Malachi 3:6 "I the Lord do not change".

Luke 1:11 does not say 'the Angel of the LORD' but 'an angel of the LORD'. You'll also notice in verse 19 it says, 'I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings'. This is not true of the Angel of the LORD present in the Hebrew scriptures.

The Lord does not change, as you say, but to redeem mankind judiciously, God must come to earth to pay the price for sin. How to you think this can be achieved without taking the form of a man?

eik · Jul 7, 2020

Redemptionsong said:
Luke 1:11 does not say 'the Angel of the LORD' but 'an angel of the LORD'. You'll also notice in verse 19 it says, 'I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings'. This is not true of the Angel of the LORD present in the Hebrew scriptures.

Splitting hairs. No proof in that because Hebrews 1 does not accept that God ever manifested himself in person. Why would he when he had servant angels to act on his behalf?

Redemptionsong said:
The Lord does not change, as you say, but to redeem mankind judiciously, God must come to earth to pay the price for sin. How to you think this can be achieved without taking the form of a man?

Because Christ is defined to be God by his position and relation to the Father (Jn 1:1 He was God and was "with" God). If neither of those hold he ceases to be God, but the Father remains God. God is axiomatically defined as the Father, who is true God.

So when the word took the form of a man, it wasn't God in the form of a man, but the son of God in the form of a man. Having left his Father's throne he was no longer "with God" so he wasn't God but became the son of God as he maintained his relation with the Father. The Father as axiomatically God did not change.

God is nowhere defined as "three persons" in the bible. Rather "true God" is the Father in numerous passages in the NT.

Redemptionsong · Jul 7, 2020

eik said:
Splitting hairs. No proof in that because Hebrews 1 does not accept that God ever manifested himself in person. Why would he when he had servant angels to act on his behalf?

Because Christ is defined to be God by his position and relation to the Father (Jn 1:1 He was God and was "with" God). If neither of those hold he ceases to be God, but the Father remains God. God is axiomatically defined as the Father, who is true God.

So when the word took the form of a man, it wasn't God in the form of a man, but the son of God in the form of a man. Having left his Father's throne he was no longer "with God" so he wasn't God but became the son of God as he maintained his relation with the Father. The Father as axiomatically God did not change.

God is nowhere defined as "three persons" in the bible. Rather "true God" is the Father in numerous passages in the NT.

Hebrews 1:1-4 says this, 'God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.'

This would indicate that God's Son is 'so much better than the angels'. Through the Son, the Word of God, the worlds were made. So John 1:1 is totally consistent with the Word as God's creative power. The Word belongs to God; but once expressed has a life of its own, independent of the Father yet obedient to the Father.

eik · Jul 7, 2020

Redemptionsong said:
The Word belongs to God; but once expressed has a life of its own, independent of the Father yet obedient to the Father.

"Logos" has more than one meaning in Greek. It doesn't only infer the spoken word, but is a regular term of Greek philosophy having a long provenance in religion, even before the gospels. It is the divine principle by which all created things are made. Although translated into English as "word" the Greek meaning is far more extensive than spoken words. The Logos did not need to be "expressed" to exist. It existed eternally.

Redemptionsong · Jul 7, 2020

If Jesus Christ was not 'the glory of the LORD' in a temple of God's making, then we should consider what alternatives exist.

If Jesus had been a man born of human parentage, then he would also have been a sinner [Romans 3:23]. He would be a descendant of Adam and bear the sin that all the generations of Adam bear. Since the only Saviour of man is God [Isaiah 43:11], a Saviour must be born without the ancestry of Adam [Luke 3:23].

This is why all Messianic claims within modern Judaism must be seen as spurious. The Messiah who returns in the future will not be born on earth, as claimed, but come from heaven.

To my understanding, God's Son came from heaven at the first advent, and God's chosen human vessel, Jesus born of Mary, was without inherited sin. This means that the Messiah was totally unique.
Hence 1 Timothy 2:5. 'For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ'.

If God was not in Jesus, as the 'Christ' or anointing, then there could not have been a Saviour on earth. That would make the angelic message of Luke 2:11 a nonsense.

'For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.'

Redemptionsong · Jul 7, 2020

eik said:
"Logos" has more than one meaning in Greek. It doesn't only infer the spoken word, but is a regular term of Greek philosophy having a long provenance in religion, even before the gospels. It is the divine principle by which all created things are made. Although translated into English as "word" the Greek meaning is far more extensive than spoken words. The Logos did not need to be "expressed" to exist. It existed eternally.

Which is exactly why Christ is referred to as 'The Word of God' in Revelation 19:13.

The Anointed · Jul 7, 2020

eik said:
"Logos" has more than one meaning in Greek. It doesn't only infer the spoken word, but is a regular term of Greek philosophy having a long provenance in religion, even before the gospels. It is the divine principle by which all created things are made. Although translated into English as "word" the Greek meaning is far more extensive than spoken words. The Logos did not need to be "expressed" to exist. It existed eternally.

The Logos, which is the divine reality of the universe, the eternal and invisible spirit from which all being originates and to which all must return at the close of each period of universal activity, has always existed, but that eternal spirit expresses itself as the eternal oscillating universe.

Romans 1: 18; God's anger is revealed from heaven against all the sin and evil of the people whose evil ways prevent the truth from being known. God punishes them, because what can be known about God is plain to them, for God himself made it plain. Ever since God created the world, his invisible qualities, both his eternal power and his divine nature, have been clearly seen; they are perceived in the things that God has made. So those people have no excuse at all!.

The Logos is made manifest as the supposed physical universe.

EddyB123 · Jul 12, 2020

Redemptionsong said:
Much of the debate that takes place between Unitarians and Trinitarians is an attempt to answer the big question posed by King Solomon.

1 Kings 8:27. 'But will God indeed dwell on earth?'
2 Chronicles 6:18. 'But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth?'

The constructing of the tabernacle, or sanctuary, was Israel's obedient response to God's command in the wilderness. As it says in Exodus 25:8, 'And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.'

The specifications for the sanctuary were precise and detailed, and according to God's pattern. This was true for the tabernacle, and for the later Temple in Jerusalem.

The innermost and most holy place in the Temple, the Holy of Holies, was occupied by the Ark of the Covenant. God's presence was said to be between the cherubim on the mercy seat. Only the High Priest was allowed access, once in the year.

Psalm 99:1. 'The LORD reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; let the earth be moved.'

God's decision to have a Temple made for his dwelling place on earth was bound closely to His covenant with Israel.

Does anyone who believes the scriptures doubt that God (the LORD) dwelt on earth in the Temple? Did God remain constantly amongst his people until the Ark was hidden? Did God take leave of earth after the Ark's disappearance?

And a further question; does Malachi 3:1 refer to the physical temple, or to the Messiah, Jesus?
'Behold, I will send my messenger [John the Baptist, I believe], and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.'

I can prove God dwells on this earth, but that doesn't make me a believer in the power of God.

I can. But you aren't ready.

When will you be ready? Before covid19? No. During the riots? Nope. Earthquake? World war?...

I can.

I got "I can" from this "God" but nowhere to go with it.

If I had money, I can show the world and maybe everyone can feel the let down I feel every time I encounter God's miracle.

Redemptionsong · Jul 13, 2020

EddyB123 said:
I can prove God dwells on this earth, but that doesn't make me a believer in the power of God.

I can. But you aren't ready.

When will you be ready? Before covid19? No. During the riots? Nope. Earthquake? World war?...

I can.

I got "I can" from this "God" but nowhere to go with it.

If I had money, I can show the world and maybe everyone can feel the let down I feel every time I encounter God's miracle.

I'm finding it difficult to prepare for something l don't understand. Please enlighten me.

The Anointed · Jul 15, 2020

Redemptionsong said:
If Jesus Christ was not 'the glory of the LORD' in a temple of God's making, then we should consider what alternatives exist.

If Jesus had been a man born of human parentage, then he would also have been a sinner [Romans 3:23]. He would be a descendant of Adam and bear the sin that all the generations of Adam bear. Since the only Saviour of man is God [Isaiah 43:11], a Saviour must be born without the ancestry of Adam [Luke 3:23].

This is why all Messianic claims within modern Judaism must be seen as spurious. The Messiah who returns in the future will not be born on earth, as claimed, but come from heaven.

To my understanding, God's Son came from heaven at the first advent, and God's chosen human vessel, Jesus born of Mary, was without inherited sin. This means that the Messiah was totally unique.
Hence 1 Timothy 2:5. 'For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ'.

If God was not in Jesus, as the 'Christ' or anointing, then there could not have been a Saviour on earth. That would make the angelic message of Luke 2:11 a nonsense.

'For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.'

Moses asked God for his name in order that he might be able to tell the Israelites in Egypt, who had sent him. And God said; See Exodus 3: 14; "I Am Who I Am/YHVH." You must tell them: 'The one who is called "I AM/JHVH" has sent me to you.' Tell the Israelites that I, the Lord, the God of their ancestors, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, have sent you to them.

Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; YHVH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, says to Moses; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will punish, etc.

Peter confirms that Jesus was that man, when, concerning the man Jesus, he says in. Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc."

Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our ancestors? No, they did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the people escorting him cried out, "BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD" Verifying that they believed Jesus to be the one that God had promised that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people to speak in his name.

GNB Catholic Study Edition: Acts 3:19; “Repent then and turn to God, (Not to Jesus, but to God) so that He (God) will forgive your sins. If you do, times of spiritual strength will come from the Lord, and He will send Jesus, who is the Messiah that he has already CHOSEN for you.” The man Jesus, was chosen and made both Lord and saviour by “Who I Am”.

Acts 3:13; The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our ancestors has given divine glory to his servant Jesus.

Act 17: 31; For he (The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.) has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a man he has chosen. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that man from death.

Isaiah 42: 1; The Lord says, "Here is my servant, whom I strengthen---the one I have CHOSEN, with whom I am pleased. I have filled him with my spirit (Which descended upon him in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say, "You are my beloved in whom I am pleased, TODAY I have become your Father.) and he will bring justice to every nation.

1st Timothy 1:1; “From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by order of “GOD OUR SAVIOUR” and Christ Jesus “OUR HOPE.”

John 14: 24; “And the word which you hear is not mine, but ‘THE’ Fathers who sent me. Not “MY Father” but ‘THE’ Father of us all: “Our Father who is in heaven.”

Jesus said to Mary Magdalen in John 20: 17; “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

Whose words were these in reference to the body of Jesus which had been filled by the spirit=information=words of the Lord which had descended upon him in the form of a dove? “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up?”

They were the words that Jesus was commanded to say by “Who I Am,” who raised the body of Jesus, the earthly temple, which had been filled with his spirit.

Acts 5: 30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a tree.

Acts 13: 30; But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee, etc.

1st Corinthians 6: 14; And God has both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

2nd Corinthians 1: 9; But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead.

2nd Corinthians 4: 14; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.

Acts 17: 31; For He (The Lord God our saviour) has fixed a day in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

It was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who said through his obedient servant Jesus; “Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up.”

GNB Catholic Study Edition Acts 3:19; "Repent, then, and turn to God, so that he will forgive your sins. If you do, times of spiritual strength will come from the Lord, and he will send Jesus, who is the Messiah he has already chosen for you. He must remain in heaven until the time comes for all things to be made new, as God announced through his holy prophets who lived long ago. For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people. You are to obey everything that he tells you to do. Anyone who does not obey that prophet shall be separated from God's people and destroyed.’

Redemptionsong · Jul 15, 2020

The Anointed said:
Moses asked God for his name in order that he might be able to tell the Israelites in Egypt, who had sent him. And God said; See Exodus 3: 14; "I Am Who I Am/YHVH." You must tell them: 'The one who is called "I AM/JHVH" has sent me to you.' Tell the Israelites that I, the Lord, the God of their ancestors, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, have sent you to them.

Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; YHVH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, says to Moses; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will punish, etc.

Peter confirms that Jesus was that man, when, concerning the man Jesus, he says in. Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc."

Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our ancestors? No, they did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the people escorting him cried out, "BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD" Verifying that they believed Jesus to be the one that God had promised that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people to speak in his name.

GNB Catholic Study Edition: Acts 3:19; “Repent then and turn to God, (Not to Jesus, but to God) so that He (God) will forgive your sins. If you do, times of spiritual strength will come from the Lord, and He will send Jesus, who is the Messiah that he has already CHOSEN for you.” The man Jesus, was chosen and made both Lord and saviour by “Who I Am”.

Acts 3:13; The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our ancestors has given divine glory to his servant Jesus.

Act 17: 31; For he (The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.) has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a man he has chosen. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that man from death.

Isaiah 42: 1; The Lord says, "Here is my servant, whom I strengthen---the one I have CHOSEN, with whom I am pleased. I have filled him with my spirit (Which descended upon him in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say, "You are my beloved in whom I am pleased, TODAY I have become your Father.) and he will bring justice to every nation.

1st Timothy 1:1; “From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by order of “GOD OUR SAVIOUR” and Christ Jesus “OUR HOPE.”

John 14: 24; “And the word which you hear is not mine, but ‘THE’ Fathers who sent me. Not “MY Father” but ‘THE’ Father of us all: “Our Father who is in heaven.”

Jesus said to Mary Magdalen in John 20: 17; “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

Whose words were these in reference to the body of Jesus which had been filled by the spirit=information=words of the Lord which had descended upon him in the form of a dove? “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up?”

They were the words that Jesus was commanded to say by “Who I Am,” who raised the body of Jesus, the earthly temple, which had been filled with his spirit.

Acts 5: 30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a tree.

Acts 13: 30; But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee, etc.

1st Corinthians 6: 14; And God has both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

2nd Corinthians 1: 9; But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead.

2nd Corinthians 4: 14; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.

Acts 17: 31; For He (The Lord God our saviour) has fixed a day in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

It was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who said through his obedient servant Jesus; “Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up.”

GNB Catholic Study Edition Acts 3:19; "Repent, then, and turn to God, so that he will forgive your sins. If you do, times of spiritual strength will come from the Lord, and he will send Jesus, who is the Messiah he has already chosen for you. He must remain in heaven until the time comes for all things to be made new, as God announced through his holy prophets who lived long ago. For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people. You are to obey everything that he tells you to do. Anyone who does not obey that prophet shall be separated from God's people and destroyed.’

According to the Jews, calling yourself the 'Son of God' was making yourself equal to God.

Here's what John 5:18 says, 'Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.'

[And I've suddenly had a revelation! Maybe Jesus broke man's sabbath because he was in the middle of doing the work of God. God's sabbath does not happen until the seventh day (seventh millennium). As the Son of God, Jesus broke man's sabbath because he was living in the middle of God's week. As Jesus says, 'My Father worketh hitherto, and I work'. John 5:17]

The Anointed · Jul 16, 2020

Redemptionsong said:
According to the Jews, calling yourself the 'Son of God' was making yourself equal to God.

Here's what John 5:18 says, 'Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.'

[And I've suddenly had a revelation! Maybe Jesus broke man's sabbath because he was in the middle of doing the work of God. God's sabbath does not happen until the seventh day (seventh millennium). As the Son of God, Jesus broke man's sabbath because he was living in the middle of God's week. As Jesus says, 'My Father worketh hitherto, and I work'. John 5:17]

Jesus never claimed to be 'THE SON OF GOD" The Lord's words which the man Jesus was commanded to speak to the people, reveal that he who filled the man Jesus with His spirit, on the day of his baptism (My words are spirit and Life said the Lord through his servant Jesus) was the only begotten Son of God, who said in Hebrews 10: 5; Good News Bible; For this reason, when Christ was about to come into the world, he said to God: “You do not want sacrifices and offerings, but you have prepared a body for me. That body was the man Jesus, who was filled with the spirit of 'The Son of Man' who was chosen by Abraham as his God.

Christ is the English term for the Greek Χριστός (Khristós) meaning "the anointed one" It is a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ), usually transliterated into English as Messiah or Mashiach. The Hebrew word translated "anointed" is the verb form of the noun "Messiah."

The word “CHRIST” means “The Anointed One.” Enoch was the one anointed by the Most-High as his successor.

Genesis 5: 23; Enoch was 365 (In days---A calendar year: the one-year old sacrificial Lamb of God.) and had spent his life in fellowship with God when he disappeared because God had Taken him.

Hebrews 11: 5; “By faith Enoch was translated (To change from one form to another) so that he should not experience death; and he was not found, because God had Translated him.

The only man to have ascended to the ends of all time and was translated so as to never see death, and this man, plays absolutely no part in the belief of the Jewish or universal/Catholic church of Constantine: “The Stone that the builder's rejected, has turned out to be the most important stone of all."

"The Book of the Secrets of Enoch" 22: 8; "And I fell prone and bowed down to the Lord, and the Lord with his lips said to me: "Have courage, Enoch, do not fear, arise and stand before my face into eternity."

And the archistratiege Michael lifted me up, and led me before the Lord's face.

[Archistratege. Or, "the commander of the armies of the nations, named Michael."]

Hebrew 12: 24; “You have come to Jesus, who arranged THE NEW COVENANT, and the sprinkled blood that promises much better things than does the blood of Abel.”

And the Most-High, (who held the ransom blood of righteous Abel, which could save but one man) said to the glorious creatures that surrounded him, tempting them: "Let Enoch stand before my face into eternity," and the glorious creatures bowed down to the Lord, and said: "Let Enoch go [Or be released] according to Thy word." Enoch, was the first to be released.

And the Lord said to Michael: "Go take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of my glory." [Enoch, is the one who was anointed as the successor to the throne of the MOST HIGH in the creation: CHRIST=The anointed one]

And Michael did thus as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the sun’s rays, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones.

Sandalphon is an archangel in Jewish and Christian writings. Sandalphon figures prominently in the mystical literary traditions of Rabbinic Judaism and early Christianity, notably in the Midrash, Talmud, and Kabbalah.

Some of the earliest sources on Sandalphon refer to him as the prophet Elijah transfigured and elevated to angelic status. Other sources (mainly from the midrashic period) describe him as the "twin brother" of Metatron, whose human origin as Enoch was similar to the human origin of Sandalphon.

Sandalphron and Metatron are post human angels, Metatron is the name that was given to Enoch after he had been translated from a body of corruptible matter into a glorious body of incorruptible light, and Sandalphron, who is erroneously thought by some to be Metatron"s twin, is in fact Elijah"s angelic name after he was carried up to stand before Enoch and was also transfigured.

Metatron is also mentioned in the Pseudepigrapha, most prominently in the Hebrew Book of Enoch (also called Third Enoch), in which his grand title, "The lesser YHVH" (The Son of God) resurfaces. It is also said that Metatron. The anointed one=CHRIST, was the angel who guided Israel through the wilderness.

Redemptionsong · Jul 16, 2020

The Anointed said:
Jesus never claimed to be 'THE SON OF GOD" The Lord's words which the man Jesus was commanded to speak to the people, reveal that he who filled the man Jesus with His spirit, on the day of his baptism (My words are spirit and Life said the Lord through his servant Jesus) was the only begotten Son of God, who said in Hebrews 10: 5; Good News Bible; For this reason, when Christ was about to come into the world, he said to God: “You do not want sacrifices and offerings, but you have prepared a body for me. That body was the man Jesus, who was filled with the spirit of 'The Son of Man' who was chosen by Abraham as his God.

Christ is the English term for the Greek Χριστός (Khristós) meaning "the anointed one" It is a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ), usually transliterated into English as Messiah or Mashiach. The Hebrew word translated "anointed" is the verb form of the noun "Messiah."

The word “CHRIST” means “The Anointed One.” Enoch was the one anointed by the Most-High as his successor.

Genesis 5: 23; Enoch was 365 (In days---A calendar year: the one-year old sacrificial Lamb of God.) and had spent his life in fellowship with God when he disappeared because God had Taken him.

Hebrews 11: 5; “By faith Enoch was translated (To change from one form to another) so that he should not experience death; and he was not found, because God had Translated him.

The only man to have ascended to the ends of all time and was translated so as to never see death, and this man, plays absolutely no part in the belief of the Jewish or universal/Catholic church of Constantine: “The Stone that the builder's rejected, has turned out to be the most important stone of all."

"The Book of the Secrets of Enoch" 22: 8; "And I fell prone and bowed down to the Lord, and the Lord with his lips said to me: "Have courage, Enoch, do not fear, arise and stand before my face into eternity."

And the archistratiege Michael lifted me up, and led me before the Lord's face.

[Archistratege. Or, "the commander of the armies of the nations, named Michael."]

Hebrew 12: 24; “You have come to Jesus, who arranged THE NEW COVENANT, and the sprinkled blood that promises much better things than does the blood of Abel.”

And the Most-High, (who held the ransom blood of righteous Abel, which could save but one man) said to the glorious creatures that surrounded him, tempting them: "Let Enoch stand before my face into eternity," and the glorious creatures bowed down to the Lord, and said: "Let Enoch go [Or be released] according to Thy word." Enoch, was the first to be released.

And the Lord said to Michael: "Go take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of my glory." [Enoch, is the one who was anointed as the successor to the throne of the MOST HIGH in the creation: CHRIST=The anointed one]

And Michael did thus as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the sun’s rays, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones.

Sandalphon is an archangel in Jewish and Christian writings. Sandalphon figures prominently in the mystical literary traditions of Rabbinic Judaism and early Christianity, notably in the Midrash, Talmud, and Kabbalah.

Some of the earliest sources on Sandalphon refer to him as the prophet Elijah transfigured and elevated to angelic status. Other sources (mainly from the midrashic period) describe him as the "twin brother" of Metatron, whose human origin as Enoch was similar to the human origin of Sandalphon.

Sandalphron and Metatron are post human angels, Metatron is the name that was given to Enoch after he had been translated from a body of corruptible matter into a glorious body of incorruptible light, and Sandalphron, who is erroneously thought by some to be Metatron"s twin, is in fact Elijah"s angelic name after he was carried up to stand before Enoch and was also transfigured.

Metatron is also mentioned in the Pseudepigrapha, most prominently in the Hebrew Book of Enoch (also called Third Enoch), in which his grand title, "The lesser YHVH" (The Son of God) resurfaces. It is also said that Metatron. The anointed one=CHRIST, was the angel who guided Israel through the wilderness.

If one sticks to the inspired scriptures (the canon of scripture, both Hebrew and Christian) one can see that Jesus Christ fulfils the roles of Messiah, Servant of God, Son of Man and Son of God.

Was Jesus Christ the Son of God? Was the Spirit of Christ [the Word] within the human vessel, Jesus? I believe so.
Here's the scriptural evidence:

In Mark 14:61.'...Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?'

Mark 5:6-8. 'But when he [the demonic, Legion] saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
For he [Jesus] said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.'

Matthew 16:13-17.'When Jesus came to the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.'

So, in these three passages, we have:
The high priest asking the question directly, demon spirits recognising the Son of God, and Simon Peter making the same observation through the revelation of God. How can you deny that Jesus Christ was the Son of God?

By the time we get to the epistles of Paul, the belief is set out for the Church as a whole.

Romans 1:3,4.'Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:'

2 Corinthians 1:19.'For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.'

The Anointed · Jul 16, 2020

Redemptionsong said:
If one sticks to the inspired scriptures (the canon of scripture, both Hebrew and Christian) one can see that Jesus Christ fulfils the roles of Messiah, Servant of God, Son of Man and Son of God.

Was Jesus Christ the Son of God? Was the Spirit of Christ [the Word] within the human vessel, Jesus? I believe so.
Here's the scriptural evidence:

In Mark 14:61.'...Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?'

Mark 5:6-8. 'But when he [the demonic, Legion] saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
For he [Jesus] said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.'

Matthew 16:13-17.'When Jesus came to the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.'

So, in these three passages, we have:
The high priest asking the question directly, demon spirits recognising the Son of God, and Simon Peter making the same observation through the revelation of God. How can you deny that Jesus Christ was the Son of God?

By the time we get to the epistles of Paul, the belief is set out for the Church as a whole.

Romans 1:3,4.'Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:'

2 Corinthians 1:19.'For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.'

I have just posted this in another thread, but it applicable here also.

"All authority has been given me," were the words of our Lord God and savior, who said in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will punish, etc.

Peter reveals who that prophet was, when in Acts 3: 12; in reference to the man Jesus, Peter says; “For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will send you a prophet just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc.”

Did the people of his day believe that the man Jesus was some God, who had been born of a virgin? Of course not, the Jews who lived in the day of Jesus, knew that God had said to Moses that he would choose a man from among the Israelites and send him to speak in his name, and Peter in Acts 3: 22; verified that man to be Jesus the son of Mary, Plus the people of his day knew that he was the man that God had chosen from among the Israelites and sent to speak in his name, when on his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, they cried out: “BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.”

It was he, 'The Son of Man' the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who filled the man Jesus with his spirit as the heavenly voice was heard to say, "You are my Son (My chosen heir and successor) this day I have begotten thee " Who raised his earthly temple from death and has placed him in his throne until he has brought every knee to bow before his heir, then he shall reclaim his throne as the MOST HIGH in the creation. The supreme personality of Godhead to develop within the Logos, which is all that exists, the GREAT THOUGHT, which is the collective consciousness of all that it has become.

Who is your savior? Jesus is not the savior according to Paul, 1 Timothy 1; From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by order of God our Saviour and Christ Jesus our hope.

Redemptionsong · Jul 17, 2020

The Anointed said:
I have just posted this in another thread, but it applicable here also.

"All authority has been given me," were the words of our Lord God and savior, who said in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will punish, etc.

Peter reveals who that prophet was, when in Acts 3: 12; in reference to the man Jesus, Peter says; “For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will send you a prophet just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc.”

Did the people of his day believe that the man Jesus was some God, who had been born of a virgin? Of course not, the Jews who lived in the day of Jesus, knew that God had said to Moses that he would choose a man from among the Israelites and send him to speak in his name, and Peter in Acts 3: 22; verified that man to be Jesus the son of Mary, Plus the people of his day knew that he was the man that God had chosen from among the Israelites and sent to speak in his name, when on his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, they cried out: “BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.”

It was he, 'The Son of Man' the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who filled the man Jesus with his spirit as the heavenly voice was heard to say, "You are my Son (My chosen heir and successor) this day I have begotten thee " Who raised his earthly temple from death and has placed him in his throne until he has brought every knee to bow before his heir, then he shall reclaim his throne as the MOST HIGH in the creation. The supreme personality of Godhead to develop within the Logos, which is all that exists, the GREAT THOUGHT, which is the collective consciousness of all that it has become.

Who is your savior? Jesus is not the savior according to Paul, 1 Timothy 1; From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by order of God our Saviour and Christ Jesus our hope.

To say that Jesus is not our saviour is clearly wrong. In 1 Timothy 1:1, Paul is not saying that Christ Jesus is not our saviour, he is saying that Jesus Christ is both our saviour AND our hope! To confirm this, one only has to look at 1 Timothy 1:15, 'This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am the chief'.

To deny that Jesus Christ is our saviour is to deny the words of the angel of the Lord, Luke 2:11. "For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord'.

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