"Anguish of nations...."

Hockeycowboy · Jul 7, 2020

At Luke 21 25-28, Jesus mentioned some fascinating events that would take place....
https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/luke/21/#v42021033

Why would there be 'anguish of nations not knowing the way out'? Because of "the roaring of the sea". What does this mean?

If we read what Isaiah 57:20 likens the sea to, we get a glimpse of what Jesus meant...

"Earth" at times, depending on context, can refer to 'people', like in Genesis 11:1.
And Ephesians 3:10 compares the rulers / governments / kingdoms to "heavenly places". I.e., "powers of the heavens"? (And kingdoms are what God's Kingdom will.....well, read it for yourself @ Daniel 2:44 & Revelation 16 14,16.)

Now, use this knowledge to understand Revelation 21:1-5. Really, these verses are a fulfillment of Jesus' prayer @ Matthew 6:9-10. (So, amid all this mess occurring now, Mankind's future is bright! After Jehovah and Jesus step in.)
These are my beliefs.
Peace to all my cousins!

Any comments? Questions? Ad homs?

epronovost · Jul 7, 2020

Hockeycowboy said:
Any comments?

Your post is difficult to read and your point difficult to understand because there are to many hyperlink references and not enough explanation and direct quotation.

Questions?

Do you think you can re-explain your position with less external link and more internal critique so that I may understand what you are trying to say?

Ad homs?

You sir are a scoundrel without valor I say!

Eyes to See · Jul 7, 2020

It would surprise some to know but one of the greatest scientists to ever live, Sir Isaac Newton believed in God and studied the Bible to great length. Posthumously some of his works on the Bible were published.

His beliefs were heretical at the time and thus he had to hide them. But he was a non-trinitarian, believed in Jehovah God, and his son Jesus Christ. A lot his his beliefs and understandings of even the prophetic word were accurate and are similar to the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses.

In his book Sir Isaac Newton's Daniel and the Apocalypse (1733) Isaac shared the same sentiments.

Here you see on page 18 and 19 Isaac Newton explaining what the heavens, stars, moon, sky,, seas, islands, mountains are in symbolic language in the Bible.

The book can be found here:
Observations upon the prophecies of Daniel, and the Apocalypse of St. John : in two parts : Newton, Isaac, Sir, 1642-1727 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

It is a good read.

The earth can represent people. The seas people. The heavens the body politic on earth. The stars the leaders of the people.

A new heaven and new earth would refer to a new governmental body and a new people. The new heaven would be God's kingdom government. The new earth would be obedient earthly subjects under God's kingdom.

The seas, or the masses of humankind are mislead by Satan.

The earth can also represent the stable political elements, and the sea, the unstable or radical elements of human society.

Mountains also are symbolic of governments. Such as the mountain of Jehovah, Mount Zion, which symbolizes God's heavenly kingdom government to which all peoples would come. etc.

Hockeycowboy · Jul 7, 2020

epronovost said:
Your post is difficult to read and your point difficult to understand because there are to many hyperlink references and not enough explanation and direct quotation.

Do you think you can re-explain your position with less external link and more internal critique so that I may understand what you are trying to say?

You sir are a scoundrel without valor I say!

Yes, I do have an issue with that at times. I have borderline CP, and while I can speak very well -- in fact, I'm a public speaker - sometimes I have trouble expressing my thoughts clearly....my typing is very slow, and my mind rushes ahead, excuse the pun.

If you can give me specifics, I might be able to answer you more definitively.

And I think @Eyes to See would be able to answer any questions you may have.

Hockeycowboy · Jul 7, 2020

Eyes to See said:
It would surprise some to know but one of the greatest scientists to ever live, Sir Isaac Newton believed in God and studied the Bible to great length. Posthumously some of his works on the Bible were published.

His beliefs were heretical at the time and thus he had to hide them. But he was a non-trinitarian, believed in Jehovah God, and his son Jesus Christ. A lot his his beliefs and understandings of even the prophetic word were accurate and are similar to the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses.

In his book Sir Isaac Newton's Daniel and the Apocalypse (1733) Isaac shared the same sentiments. View attachment 41300

Here you see on page 18 and 19 Isaac Newton explaining what the heavens, stars, moon, sky,, seas, islands, mountains are in symbolic language in the Bible.

The book can be found here:
Observations upon the prophecies of Daniel, and the Apocalypse of St. John : in two parts : Newton, Isaac, Sir, 1642-1727 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

It is a good read.

The earth can represent people. The seas people. The heavens the body politic on earth. The stars the leaders of the people.

A new heaven and new earth would refer to a new governmental body and a new people. The new heaven would be God's kingdom government. The new earth would be obedient earthly subjects under God's kingdom.

The seas, or the masses of humankind are mislead by Satan.

The earth can also represent the stable political elements, and the sea, the unstable or radical elements of human society.

Mountains also are symbolic of governments. Such as the mountain of Jehovah, Mount Zion, which symbolizes God's heavenly kingdom government to which all peoples would come. etc.

Thanks for the link!
I knew about Newton.
Did you know where he differed from JW's? One area was on the Devil....he didn't think there was a real Devil. (If I remember correctly.)

He wrote more on religious beliefs, than on science!

cataway · Jul 7, 2020

i dont understand how Isaac Newton came up with 2060AD

exchemist · Jul 7, 2020

Eyes to See said:
It would surprise some to know but one of the greatest scientists to ever live, Sir Isaac Newton believed in God and studied the Bible to great length. Posthumously some of his works on the Bible were published.

His beliefs were heretical at the time and thus he had to hide them. But he was a non-trinitarian, believed in Jehovah God, and his son Jesus Christ. A lot his his beliefs and understandings of even the prophetic word were accurate and are similar to the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses.

In his book Sir Isaac Newton's Daniel and the Apocalypse (1733) Isaac shared the same sentiments. View attachment 41300

Here you see on page 18 and 19 Isaac Newton explaining what the heavens, stars, moon, sky,, seas, islands, mountains are in symbolic language in the Bible.

The book can be found here:
Observations upon the prophecies of Daniel, and the Apocalypse of St. John : in two parts : Newton, Isaac, Sir, 1642-1727 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

It is a good read.

The earth can represent people. The seas people. The heavens the body politic on earth. The stars the leaders of the people.

A new heaven and new earth would refer to a new governmental body and a new people. The new heaven would be God's kingdom government. The new earth would be obedient earthly subjects under God's kingdom.

The seas, or the masses of humankind are mislead by Satan.

The earth can also represent the stable political elements, and the sea, the unstable or radical elements of human society.

Mountains also are symbolic of governments. Such as the mountain of Jehovah, Mount Zion, which symbolizes God's heavenly kingdom government to which all peoples would come. etc.

There's a good book on Newton called "The Last Sorcerer", which makes the point that he lived at the time of the transition from alchemy, numerology and other flaky ideas we would now dismiss as pseudo-science, into modern science as we know it.

But it's no surprise he was a religious believer. Almost everybody was in those days and in fact it was a requirement to obtain a university position. Most of the early scientists were religious. Copernicus took at least minor orders, though it is not clear he was ever ordained priest. Kepler studied theology.

LightofTruth · Jul 7, 2020

Hockeycowboy said:
At Luke 21 25-28, Jesus mentioned some fascinating events that would take place....
https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/luke/21/#v42021033

Why would there be 'anguish of nations not knowing the way out'? Because of "the roaring of the sea". What does this mean?

If we read what Isaiah 57:20 likens the sea to, we get a glimpse of what Jesus meant...

"Earth" at times, depending on context, can refer to 'people', like in Genesis 11:1.
And Ephesians 3:10 compares the rulers / governments / kingdoms to "heavenly places". I.e., "powers of the heavens"? (And kingdoms are what God's Kingdom will.....well, read it for yourself @ Daniel 2:44 & Revelation 16 14,16.)

Now, use this knowledge to understand Revelation 21:1-5. Really, these verses are a fulfillment of Jesus' prayer @ Matthew 6:9-10. (So, amid all this mess occurring now, Mankind's future is bright! After Jehovah and Jesus step in.)
These are my beliefs.
Peace to all my cousins!

Any comments? Questions? Ad homs?

The roaring of the sea is likened to the roaring of a great multitude of people in motion of war. So, when the son of man's voice is likened to the sound of many waters, it means he and his brethren are in motion of war to execute God's judgments upon His people and the nations.

danieldemol · Jul 7, 2020

Hockeycowboy said:
Thanks for the link!
I knew about Newton.
Did you know where he differed from JW's? One area was on the Devil....he didn't think there was a real Devil. (If I remember correctly.)

He wrote more on religious beliefs, than on science!

Having a symbolic new heavens and new earth and no literal devil sounds more like Baha’i than JW to me.
But I haven’t read Newton’s works in detail to know

"Anguish of nations...."

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah

epronovost

Well-Known Member

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah

cataway

Well-Known Member

exchemist

Veteran Member

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member

danieldemol

Well-Known Member