PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Yes, funny isn't it. As the West becomes more and more secular, Islam
rises to fill the vacuum. Just watch what is happening in Europe.
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Those contradicting Gospels!
- Thread starter oldbadger
- Start date
Yes, funny isn't it. As the West becomes more and more secular, Islam
rises to fill the vacuum. Just watch what is happening in Europe.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Not sure how John's reflection upon the inner Christ in Jesus had anything
to do with anti-Jews. In fact Christianity for a long while after Jesus was
essentially a Jewish thing. Some Christians, such as Peter, thought it
should stay that way.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Where do you live?
You've got this wrong.
Many Muslims in the UK are becoming less interested in Islam, just as Christianity is falling away here. And we have many more Sikhs where I live than Muslims. And my wife's best friend works for a Hindu, and my favourite cafe is run by a Zoroastrian. Our fastest growing religion here (my town) is probably the Watchtower, with Universal Church running 2nd.
What we don't need are Christian churches that preach bigotry against race, sexuality and the rest of it. There is a huge rainbow painted on the side of the Riverside Church here.
Most of my old work colleagues that I knew Muslim wanted nice cars and cool fashions, Prue, and the Muslim women are standing up to be counted now.
And women are free here to choose how to live their lives. Some Churches are closing, and being refitted as flats or sold entire to become private homes.
No problem....
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Where do you live?
You've got this wrong.
Many Muslims in the UK are becoming less interested in Islam, just as Christianity is falling away here. And we have many more Sikhs where I live than Muslims. And my wife's best friend works for a Hindu, and my favourite cafe is run by a Zoroastrian. Our fastest growing religion here (my town) is probably the Watchtower, with Universal Church running 2nd.
What we don't need are Christian churches that preach bigotry against race, sexuality and the rest of it. There is a huge rainbow painted on the side of the Riverside Church here.
Most of my old work colleagues that I knew Muslim wanted nice cars and cool fashions, Prue, and the Muslim women are standing up to be counted now.
And women are free here to choose how to live their lives. Some Churches are closing, and being refitted as flats or sold entire to become private homes.
No problem....
Hope you are right. It's not what I read. But if you are there...
We get reports like the Rotherham one. And stats like the
rise of Islam in Europe as the fastest growing religion -
through conversion, demographics and immigration.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Let me help you there.
John's Gospel turned the enemies of Jesus from the corrupt hypocritical priesthood and Temple money-go-round in to 'the Jews', plotting against him, slandering him, seeking to kill him, interrogating him.
Maybe you focus upon the other gospels mostly?
Here..... read through D-John, taking note of this verses.....
John's entries about 'the Jews' murmuring about, interrogating or plotting against Jesus.
{1:19} {2:18} {2:20} {3:25} {5:10} {5:16} {5:18} {6:41} {6:52} {7:1} {7:11} {7:13} {8:48} {8:52} {9:18} {9:22} {10:20} {10:24} {10:31} {10:33} {11:8} {11:46} {11:54} {18:12} {18:36} {19:7} {19:12} {19:15} {19:38} {20:19}
No Prue...... it became a Roman 'thing' very quickly, which is why the NT was written mostly in Greek and (I'm guessing here) Latin....
Cephas was very unhappy about how things were unfolding, which is probably how G-Mark got written, to tell the real story, much different to Paul's version.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Where do you live?
We hear some dreadful reports of racism and bigotry in the US....... all over our television News each day.
Rotherham? We caught and locked up those criminals, Prue.
I don't live in Europe, Prue......
But it's a great place to live, I believe.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Do you consider the spiritual lesson in the following passages from the Gospel of Mark?
16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Any statistics to show?
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
I could call up my old work colleagues and take a survey!
I just live here and see what I see.
firedragon
Veteran Member
I could call up my old work colleagues and take a survey!
I just live here and see what I see.
I get it. I observe it too. But to speak of a phenomena, its got to be based on stats. Otherwise its anecdotal.
Yes, these are the naturalistic processes that cause stories to diverge over time. However, if this has occurred to scripture, then the scripture is not entirely of divine origin. Even if all of it was originally the words of a deity and contained no contradictions, Christian scripture has been corrupted over time in a way that there is now no way to tell if any of it isn't of human origin, and if one of conflicting accounts is divine, which one.
The point being, why would a person subjugate themselves to the advice of ancient people if they found that advice to be of human origin? I don't really care how some anonymous guy called Luke wants me to live or what he wants me to believe. I would pay more attention and be more submissive to scripture if I thought the ideas came from a god.
Yes, and in any other context apart from religious apologetics, that would be called a contradiction, and with it, the assumption that at least one of those accounts was false.
If a friend told one that the women reported what they saw, and another friend said that they didn't, the proper response to the second friend would be, "That contradicts what I heard." Or if this was courtroom testimony, the accounts would be called contradictory, and it would be understood that at least one was erroneous.
But only in this world does it change to, "Well, you can't take it literally. Besides, just because one person said that Bob fell down last night and another reported that he fell upward in the daytime, that's not a contradiction. Falling down at night is actually falling up in the day if you consider the act from opposite sides of the world, where my up is his down, and my day is his night."
Anyway, faith has a way of corrupting thought. If one begins with the idea that no matter how flagrantly two scriptures appear to contradict one another that that is incorrect, he will always find a way to reconcile them given the assumption that they were authored by a perfect god and therefore cannot contain any errors. Somehow, up is actually down, and if a good god did or commanded it, evil-sounding acts must actually be good. They must have deserved to be drowned or dashed on the rocks.
Mike.Hester
Member
Here is another>
…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25
“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39
…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25
“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39
Yes they are good meditations and a lot of self reflection can be gained from those passages.
I see it talks of the power of Faith in transforming ourselves and in that process give power to others to enable change.
Regards Tony
Actually, most likely compiled and edited from different sources in the second and third century.
False, the Muslims of Europe are immigrants and not filling any void. Conversion beyond immigrant Muslims is very limited.
The void in the West is dominantly due to the lack of relevance an ancient worldview based in part on the mythology of Genesis.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
..... I don't need stats to express my perceptions.
So............ irrelevant.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
DAY THREE!
Contradiction 3!
This a simple one. I'm being lazy today.
How did Judas Iscariot die?
We are told two differing accounts, one that he fell in a field and ripped his guts open, another that he hanged himself.
Whilst I don't mind which account might be true, this contradiction can help to show that the gospels are not the precise and divine words of God.
How does this help me? It hope that it could help me to debate more effectively in favour of the revisionist and progressive movements within Christianity which support the tenets of Love before bigotry, I suppose..... because I will soon need to be challenging the more hateful verses in this bunch of books which further the subjugation of women, execution of offenders especially children, sexism of any kind... and more.
Anyway, some exhibits:-
Matthew {27:3} Then Judas, which had betrayeth him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, ....................
{27:5} And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself..........
{27:8} Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood,
unto this day.
Acts {1:18} Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. {1:19} And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that
field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
PS. One very good friend, a devoted JW elder, has always proposed that Judas bought a field, soon after hanging himself from a tree within it, and that later his dead decaying body fell to the ground and burst open. But I have always replied that surely God could have guided the authors more clearly towards such an account.
Contradiction 3!
This a simple one. I'm being lazy today.
How did Judas Iscariot die?
We are told two differing accounts, one that he fell in a field and ripped his guts open, another that he hanged himself.
Whilst I don't mind which account might be true, this contradiction can help to show that the gospels are not the precise and divine words of God.
How does this help me? It hope that it could help me to debate more effectively in favour of the revisionist and progressive movements within Christianity which support the tenets of Love before bigotry, I suppose..... because I will soon need to be challenging the more hateful verses in this bunch of books which further the subjugation of women, execution of offenders especially children, sexism of any kind... and more.
Anyway, some exhibits:-
Matthew {27:3} Then Judas, which had betrayeth him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, ....................
{27:5} And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself..........
{27:8} Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood,
unto this day.
Acts {1:18} Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. {1:19} And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that
field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
PS. One very good friend, a devoted JW elder, has always proposed that Judas bought a field, soon after hanging himself from a tree within it, and that later his dead decaying body fell to the ground and burst open. But I have always replied that surely God could have guided the authors more clearly towards such an account.
Interesting thing is that the Gospel of Mark doesn’t really say that Jesus didn’t have disciples then. I think your “contradiction” is based on wild speculation/interpretation that has no solid ground.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
"In part on the mythology of Genesis"
I have itemized how the first Genesis creation account accords in sequence of science events.
But what offends the modern Western mind isn't so much Genesis, it's the Gospels and its
expectation of individuals.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
The facts surrounding Jesus were historic. Currently reading the book 'Stalingrad' by A.Beevor. One boat of
new Soviet soldiers cross the Volga at night under fire. One soldier started to shake so his commander shot
him in the head and tossed him over the side of the boat. And Soviets shot many civilians trying to flee the city.
I feel a tad traumatized reading this last night. But is the book anti-German or anti-Soviet? No.
Same with John, same with Luke. More good was said of Jews than bad as these were the people who saw in
Jesus their Redeemer.
Christianity was a Jewish thing that Gentiles latched onto.