Why did God send Scriptures after another Scripture?

Piculet said:

Does God need a lamb? In your view Jesus عليه السلام was not God then?

Have you read the Quran? It is other worldly in the sense that no one from this world could have written it.

The Koran proved you wrong. End of story. If you want to see it — go ahead and read.

Click to expand...

You might need to show me verses which support your point about "no one from this world" because
for all intents and purposes Mohammed was a violent man who imposed his views upon others for
his own political benefit.
No, I don't see Jesus as God - I see Jesus as being "one" with God, just as we all can be.

stvdv said:

I don't talk about Muhammad or Confucious, I did not read much about their lives, so I don't know

But there are quite a few other Scriptures where Avatars made claims far bigger than Jesus made

Click to expand...

It wasn't Jesus' claim but His living to that claim. He said He came down from heaven to be the Redeemer -
and He offered up his suffering life, given freely, for those he loved.
Again, no warriors, no pithy Confucius or Dali Lama sayings, no Plato philosophies or Shakespearean language.

stvdv said:

But there are quite a few other Scriptures where Avatars made claims far bigger than Jesus made

Click to expand...

PruePhillip said:

It wasn't Jesus' claim but His living to that claim. He said He came down from heaven to be the Redeemer -
and He offered up his suffering life, given freely, for those he loved.
Again, no warriors, no pithy Confucius or Dali Lama sayings, no Plato philosophies or Shakespearean language.

Click to expand...

As I said, there have been other Prophets, Avatars who "lived up to their claims".
These Avatars who came down as Redeemers; no less than Jesus
And these Avatars also offered their lives for helping others

No need to make Jesus look greater/lesser than those Divine Incarnations
(That is the feeling that I get from what you write, or do I feel this wrong?)
.

stvdv said:

As I said, there have been other Prophets, Avatars who "lived up to their claims".
These Avatars who came down as Redeemers; no less than Jesus
And these Avatars also offered their lives for helping others

No need to make Jesus look greater/lesser than those Divine Incarnations
(That is the feeling that I get from what you write, or do I feel this wrong?)
.

Click to expand...

Sure, there are people who died as MARTYRS, but that wasn't their life
mission - that's just an unhappy, unplanned ending.
But for 1500 years the Jewish bible spoke of the Messianic Redeemer
who would die for his people.

stvdv said:

As I said, there have been other Prophets, Avatars who "lived up to their claims".
These Avatars who came down as Redeemers; no less than Jesus
And these Avatars also offered their lives for helping others

Click to expand...

PruePhillip said:

Sure, there are people who died as MARTYRS, but that wasn't their life mission - that's just an unhappy, unplanned ending.

Click to expand...

You twisted my words, I was obviously not talking about MARTHYRS

But it is seems to me, you are one of those claiming:
...."Jesus is the only way, for all"
...."My way is the highway"

Belittling other (non) faith

I disagree with this

PruePhillip said:

Sure, there are people who died as MARTYRS, but that wasn't their life
mission - that's just an unhappy, unplanned ending.
But for 1500 years the Jewish bible spoke of the Messianic Redeemer
who would die for his people.

Click to expand...

The Bahai's claim that the bible prophesied the advent of "Bab" who was God manifest in exact terms and exact dating through day to year conversion.

Do you accept that?

Piculet said:

The Koran proved you wrong. End of story. If you want to see it - go ahead and read.

Click to expand...

In what way?

Aupmanyav said:

In what way?

View attachment 41227

Click to expand...

Whoa, sign me up!

You are already a member, Samantha. Did you forget your password?

firedragon said:

To this question, "the reason that God" etc, will ONLY receive assumptions and conjecture. No one will have any ability to ever read God's mind and tell anyone "the reason".

Click to expand...

But Quran can answer the question. If we read the Quran well, and think about its verses, we can see why God was sending Messengers, and scriptures. What did messenger say to their people, and what was people response to their call. There is a lesson in all those stories in Quran. I see there is purpose that God talked about the stories of many Messengers, and prophets. There are lessons in them!

PruePhillip said:

So you are fine then with the revelation that God brought to Joseph Smith in America
in the 1800's? From the gold tablets God re-instituted the temple that Jesus rejected.
This is where Mormonism comes from.
I wonder how many other people have had revelations from God since that time?
Gets confusing.

Click to expand...

I am not saying anyone who claims to have a revelation is a true claim. If a person claims he has scriptures from God, he must first prove he is indeed sent by God.
Can God send a person, and asks everyone to follow him, obey him, and even punish those who reject him, yet, God does not give sufficient proof and evidence for him to be recognized? Do you know what I'm trying to say?

Aupmanyav said:

But you must, that is what your Iranian preacher said. 'Believe him even if he says that he is Allah'. You are just a covenant breaker. Your thought are 'haram'. Do you think Bahaollah was a fool to say what he said? What is there to investigate in Bahaollah's story? How can this be proved that he had a vision of the 'Maid of Heaven'? He too just made claims. We are discussing something serious and you are winking at me? What is this sort of behavior?
Why should anyone believe in what is written in Torah, Bible, Quran or any other book? Why should they be taken as words of any Allah / God?
I say they were spoken / written by frauds who had their own interests and ambitions. Prove me wrong.
What is the proof of even the existence of Allah / God?

Click to expand...

The proof of a Manifestation is not just to say I am God. A manifestation can proclaim He is God. I have already told you about some proofs, and I just repeat it: previous messengers, such as Jewish Prophets, Jesus, Muhammad and Shia Imams had already talked about 2 promised Ones. They had written prophecies about what year, where, and many more details of the two manifestations. He Bab and Bahaullah match exactly with their descriptions. Moreover, the Bab was just 25 years old, and He was from Persia, who speak Farsi. However although He did not have training in Arabic, in such a young age, He wrote Book in Arab in the style of Quran. He was able to write Books in a very short time, in Arabic, in front of others. Even the Arab Muslims cannot write Books in style of Quran, so, when a 25 years old Farsi speaking without training in religion and Arabic can do that, for many it is sign of divinity. It may not matter to you. But many High learned Muslims believed in Him, and died for their belief. Those were expert in Religion, so, they understood the miraculous abilities of the Bab. Likewise Bahaullah did not have any formal education, or any substantial training in Religion or Arabic, but He wrote tens of thousands tablets or books. Many testified, that His speed in authoring books and tablets was extraordinary. This is a very brief description here. But this was in response to your original question, that why not believing in Mirza Qolam, or Joseph Smith. I don't have problem believing in them, or anyone, but what is the proof and evidence for them?

InvestigateTruth said:

But Quran can answer the question. If we read the Quran well, and think about its verses, we can see why God was sending Messengers, and scriptures. What did messenger say to their people, and what was people response to their call. There is a lesson in all those stories in Quran. I see there is purpose that God talked about the stories of many Messengers, and prophets. There are lessons in them!

Click to expand...

Thats irrelevant to your own post. Your posts questions are answerable only by guessing.

Unless of course you can specifically cite the Quranic verse you are referring to.

I will remind you of your own OP.

A. The reason that God kept sending down Scriptures so many times, is because, everytime People eventually, divided into sects, and misinterpreted the Message of their messenger, so, Allah had to send another messenger to give the original message to correct misinterpretations and to unite them. This process continued from Adam, the first messenger, and continued to Noah, Abraham, Moses Jesus, and Muhammad, the seal of Prophets.

B. The reason that Allah kept sending down Scriptures, is because the Laws and teachings of God are suitable only for a certain period. Once the period was passed, people needed a different set of Laws and teachings in accordance with exigencies of the Age they lived in. Thus, God sent a Messenger to them with a New Law.

firedragon said:

Thats irrelevant to your own post. Your posts questions are answerable only by guessing.

Unless of course you can specifically cite the Quranic verse you are referring to.

I will remind you of your own OP.

A. The reason that God kept sending down Scriptures so many times, is because, everytime People eventually, divided into sects, and misinterpreted the Message of their messenger, so, Allah had to send another messenger to give the original message to correct misinterpretations and to unite them. This process continued from Adam, the first messenger, and continued to Noah, Abraham, Moses Jesus, and Muhammad, the seal of Prophets.

B. The reason that Allah kept sending down Scriptures, is because the Laws and teachings of God are suitable only for a certain period. Once the period was passed, people needed a different set of Laws and teachings in accordance with exigencies of the Age they lived in. Thus, God sent a Messenger to them with a New Law.

Click to expand...

For B, I had already answered from Quran in another post, and I repeat for you :


"We have formerly sent apostles before thee, and bestowed on them wives and children; and no apostle had the power to come with a sign, unless by the permission of God. Every age hath its book of revelation: What He pleaseth will God abrogate or confirm: for with Him is the source of revelation." 13:38-39

This verse tells us, each Book is for a Period of time or Age. Meaning when the period is passed it is time for another Book to be revealed, in which God can change or keep what He said before. An example of this is explained in another verse that Jesus came and allowed some of the things that was not allowed before. I have posted this verse, in this thread, please refer to it.

And specifically for the period for which the Quran came was 1000 years:


“Indeed, those who reverence the Rites decreed by GOD demonstrate the righteousness of their hearts. In them are benefits to an Appointed Time, then their place is to the ancient House” 22:33


Therefore the Quranic Rites are benefitial until their appointed time, then after that, Religious Laws are Referred to the Ancient House, which according to Recorded Traditions, is in Heaven, and the time of ascension of the Quranic ordinances is in the 32nd Surrah:

“He directeth the ordinance from the heaven unto the earth; then it ascendeth unto Him in a Day, whereof the measure is a thousand years of that ye reckon.” 32:5

This verse tells us, the ordinances or the Laws of Quran, that had come down from heaven will go up again, meaning God will take them Back, after 1000 years, because its period is over.


Now, as regards to point A, that means when people misinterpret Book of God, and invent their own ways, and become misguided, it's time for a new messenger to come and reveal the truth for them. Its evidence is in 7:34-35:

"Every nation (Ummah) has its appointed time, and when their appointed time comes they cannot keep it back an hour, nor can they bring it on. O children of Adam! there shall come to you Apostles from among yourselves, rehearsing my signs to you; and whoso shall fear God and do good works, no fear shall be upon them, neither shall they be put to grief."

The term 'Ummah' in Quran, means a People who are adherents of a Messenger. For example, Ummah of Moses, are people or followers of Moses. Ummah of Muhammad are His followers, etc. It says every Ummah has a term, when their appointed term comes, God does not wait for one hour more or delay one hour less, surely He will send His messenger to read His verses again to guide them.

InvestigateTruth said:

"We have formerly sent apostles before thee, and bestowed on them wives and children; and no apostle had the power to come with a sign, unless by the permission of God. Every age hath its book of revelation: What He pleaseth will God abrogate or confirm: for with Him is the source of revelation." 13:38-39

This verse tells us, each Book is for a Period of time or Age. Meaning when the period is passed it is time for another Book to be revealed, in which God can change or keep what He said before. An example of this is explained in another verse that Jesus came and allowed some of the things that was not allowed before. I have posted this verse, in this thread, please refer to it.

And specifically for the period for which the Quran came was 1000 years:

Click to expand...

1. It doesn't say "1000". So your own answer to your own OP is conjecture. Thats exactly what I said.
2. Also, your question "The reason" is not explained. It says "God erases and confirms what He wishes, and with Him is the Mother of the Book" which means "this is Gods makara", so you have no clue of "the reason". This is another conjecture, as I said.

InvestigateTruth said:

Now, as regards to point A, that means when people misinterpret Book of God, and invent their own ways, and become misguided, it's time for a new messenger to come and reveal the truth for them. Its evidence is in 7:34-35:

Click to expand...

Thats exactly what you did with your "1000 year" invention. So this verse is actually talking to you.

InvestigateTruth said:

Now, as regards to point A, that means when people misinterpret Book of God, and invent their own ways, and become misguided, it's time for a new messenger to come and reveal the truth for them. Its evidence is in 7:34-35:

"Every nation (Ummah) has its appointed time, and when their appointed time comes they cannot keep it back an hour, nor can they bring it on. O children of Adam! there shall come to you Apostles from among yourselves, rehearsing my signs to you; and whoso shall fear God and do good works, no fear shall be upon them, neither shall they be put to grief."

The term 'Ummah' in Quran, means a People who are adherents of a Messenger. For example, Ummah of Moses, are people or followers of Moses. Ummah of Muhammad are His followers, etc. It says every Ummah has a term, when their appointed term comes, God does not wait for one hour more or delay one hour less, surely He will send His messenger to read His verses again to guide them.

Click to expand...

Since I knew you will not address your own OP I reminded of what you asked for in your OP. You asked fro "Gods reason" which you have not provided for though you said you can saying you if you study the Quran the answer is there. But you didn't address it, neither did you provide anything from the Quran with regards to "reading Gods mind" or understanding Gods plan.

Now you are misrepresenting Ummah. You are absolutely wrong.

Tell me since you are making this up about the word Ummah, can you tell me if the Quran by alluding to all Muslims as "hayra
ummah"? tell what that means!

Also, you don't know what it means mate. So, maybe someone made this story up for you. Its a lie. Ummah means nation. How do you say "people of the world"? You say "Ummathun Alamiyya". This means the world nation. Its taking the world as a nation. Also if you study the existing narration of the Muhammadan accord he records every single Christian, Jew, and Mumeens in his state as "Ummat". In the same way when God addresses the whole of mankind, its Ummah referring to everyone, or ya bani adama. The Quran in 7:164 speaks of another "Community" which is "Ummah". Ummah is a very generic word referring to a nation or a community, nothing of this "during this prophets time" which shows you have been taught absolutely wrong.

You are assuming a lot of things which are not there, and you have not represented your own OP.

Cheers.

InvestigateTruth said:

Jesus, Muhammad and Shia Imams had already talked about 2 promised Ones

Click to expand...

Which passages are you referring to?

firedragon said:

1. It doesn't say "1000". So your own answer to your own OP is conjecture. Thats exactly what I said.
2. Also, your question "The reason" is not explained. It says "God erases and confirms what He wishes, and with Him is the Mother of the Book" which means "this is Gods makara", so you have no clue of "the reason". This is another conjecture, as I said.



Thats exactly what you did with your "1000 year" invention. So this verse is actually talking to you.




Since I knew you will not address your own OP I reminded of what you asked for in your OP. You asked fro "Gods reason" which you have not provided for though you said you can saying you if you study the Quran the answer is there. But you didn't address it, neither did you provide anything from the Quran with regards to "reading Gods mind" or understanding Gods plan.

Now you are misrepresenting Ummah. You are absolutely wrong.

Tell me since you are making this up about the word Ummah, can you tell me if the Quran by alluding to all Muslims as "hayra
ummah"? tell what that means!

Also, you don't know what it means mate. So, maybe someone made this story up for you. Its a lie. Ummah means nation. How do you say "people of the world"? You say "Ummathun Alamiyya". This means the world nation. Its taking the world as a nation. Also if you study the existing narration of the Muhammadan accord he records every single Christian, Jew, and Mumeens in his state as "Ummat". In the same way when God addresses the whole of mankind, its Ummah referring to everyone, or ya bani adama. The Quran in 7:164 speaks of another "Community" which is "Ummah". Ummah is a very generic word referring to a nation or a community, nothing of this "during this prophets time" which shows you have been taught absolutely wrong.

You are assuming a lot of things which are not there, and you have not represented your own OP.

Cheers.

Click to expand...

You did not read my last post completely. Specifically you missed this part:


And specifically for the period for which the Quran came was 1000 years:


“Indeed, those who reverence the Rites decreed by GOD demonstrate the righteousness of their hearts. In them are benefits to an Appointed Time, then their place is to the ancient House” 22:33


Therefore the Quranic Rites are benefitial until their appointed time, then after that, Religious Laws are Referred to the Ancient House, which according to Recorded Traditions, is in Heaven, and the time of ascension of the Quranic ordinances is in the 32nd Surrah:

“He directeth the ordinance from the heaven unto the earth; then it ascendeth unto Him in a Day, whereof the measure is a thousand years of that ye reckon.” 32:5

This verse tells us, the ordinances or the Laws of Quran, that had come down from heaven will go up again, meaning God will take them Back, after 1000 years, because its period is over.

firedragon said:

Which passages are you referring to?

Click to expand...

It is not in the scope of this thread.

Why did God send Scriptures after another Scripture?

1. What is written in a religious scripture by itself is not a proof.
2. How do we know that Bab did not study Arabic? Your preacher did study Arabic in Iran, or he learnt it without studying with a teacher?
3. I suppose you have heard of David Koresh. There is no dearth of foolish people ready to die. See: Waco siege - Wikipedia
4. "But this was in response to your original question, that why not believing in Mirza Qolam, or Joseph Smith. I don't have problem believing in them, or anyone, but what is the proof and evidence for them"
Again, who are you to ask for proof from a messenger of Allah? Your Iranian preacher spoke against it. You are a covenant breaker and a Bahai blasphemer. Let atheists ask this question. If you are a believer, believe at the drop of a hat as you do what what Bahaollah, Abdul Baha and Shoghi wrote. Even if they say that they are Allah, believe them. Allah will reward you.

InvestigateTruth said:

You did not read my last post completely. Specifically you missed this part:


And specifically for the period for which the Quran came was 1000 years:


“Indeed, those who reverence the Rites decreed by GOD demonstrate the righteousness of their hearts. In them are benefits to an Appointed Time, then their place is to the ancient House” 22:33


Therefore the Quranic Rites are benefitial until their appointed time, then after that, Religious Laws are Referred to the Ancient House, which according to Recorded Traditions, is in Heaven, and the time of ascension of the Quranic ordinances is in the 32nd Surrah:

“He directeth the ordinance from the heaven unto the earth; then it ascendeth unto Him in a Day, whereof the measure is a thousand years of that ye reckon.” 32:5

This verse tells us, the ordinances or the Laws of Quran, that had come down from heaven will go up again, meaning God will take them Back, after 1000 years, because its period is over.

Click to expand...

70:4 The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day which is equivalent to fifty thousand years.