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Why did God send Scriptures after another Scripture?

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
So the warlord Mohammed, who killed many people who refuse to convert, was
equal with Jesus. That's quite a stretch for people to believe - even without religious
conviction.
What Quran is saying, is If Jesus had appeared among Arabs instead of Muhammad, He would have done and said exactly whatever Muhammad has done, and said, Because, both Jesus and Muhammad were only doing what God commanded them, and If Muhammad had appeared among the Jews 2000 years ago, He would have done and said exactly as Jesus did, because Muhammad was only doing everything God asked Him to do. A Revelation depends on the mission of the Messenger, and the mission of the Messenger is determined by the age, and people who He has come to, and that all has to do with God's Will.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
What Quran is saying, is If Jesus had appeared among Arabs instead of Muhammad, He would have done and said exactly whatever Muhammad has done, and said, Because, both Jesus and Muhammad were only doing what God commanded them, and If Muhammad had appeared among the Jews 2000 years ago, He would have done and said exactly as Jesus did, because Muhammad was only doing everything God asked Him to do. A Revelation depends on the mission of the Messenger, and the mission of the Messenger is determined by the age, and people who He has come to, and that all has to do with God's Will.

So your view of God is of a being who changes His mind, and has
a different message for each culture and time? I thought God's word
was timeless.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
IMHO:

My Master explained it in this way:
First Jesus was a Messenger of God, then He realized "I am the son of God" and finally He declared "I and God are one"

And according to the Koran Muhammad claimed "Jesus is not the son of God", So, I have to conclude:
Muhammad was a Messenger of God, as God revealed to Him the Koran, but He did not get to stage 2 and 3

In spirituality there are all kinds of levels of awareness. Awareness of Jesus seems to be higher than that of Muhammad. As Muhammad could not see "Jesus as the son of God", that only means that He did not reach that awareness, and definitely not the awareness "I am God"

I see Mohammed as a mass killer, child molester, thief and, in creating yet another
"bible", a consummate liar. He was the first Islamic Jew killer, BTW.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
God told us, and always tells us, .. in the Hadithes, the Quran, the Bible.
Why should you need to check all this? Just like Bahaollah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad declared that he is the Mahdi sent by Allah. Bahaollah offerd no further proof, Mirza also did not. You are enjoined by Mohammad (PBUH) and Bahaollah not to judge messengers sent by Allah. You are not to doubt it even if the messenger tells you that 'he is Allah'. What you are doing is 'haram' by the words of your own manifestation. As I said people like you are enemies of Allah. Take care, Allah is severe in his punishment. I will repeat your own quote (speaketh, attacheth, doeth, does not doeth, funny people):

"Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: “I am God,” He, verily, speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto."
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
So your view of God is of a being who changes His mind, and has
a different message for each culture and time? I thought God's word
was timeless.
Yes, This what I see in Scriptures and it makes sense to me. God is not a robot to repeat exactly the same thing, or say one thing and leaves us forever and never come back.


"We did send apostles before thee, and appointed for them wives and children: and it was never the part of an apostle to bring a sign except as God permitted (or commanded). For each period is a Book (revealed). What He pleaseth will God abrogate or confirm: for with Him is the source of revelation." Quran 13:38-39


"Unto him do all creatures which are in heaven and earth make petition: Every day is He employed in some new work." Quran 55:29
 
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InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Why should you need to check all this? Just like Bahaollah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad declared that he is the Mahdi sent by Allah. Bahaollah offerd no further proof, Mirza also did not. You are enjoined by Mohammad (PBUH) and Bahaollah not to judge messengers sent by Allah. You are not to doubt it even if the messenger tells you that 'he is Allah'. What you are doing is 'haram' by the words of your own manifestation. As I said people like you are enemies of Allah. Take care, Allah is severe in his punishment. I will repeat your own quote (speaketh, attacheth, doeth, does not doeth, funny people):

"Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: “I am God,” He, verily, speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto."

Anybody can claim he is a Mahdi, Messiah, prophet or Messenger. Just because someone makes a claim, I don't believe, neither did Bahaullah ask anyone to believe Him blindly. We are to investigate. The verse you are quoting from Bahaullah just means, the true Messengers of God, can declare They are God. That doesnt mean if a false Prophet claimed, he speaks the truth. Common, you can do better than this ;)
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I don't think Muhammad says, Jesus ministry failed. What Muhammad said, was every Revelation is meant for a specific period of time, and every People have an end. When their End comes, God sends another Revelation to revive Religion.
He said the same thing about His own Revelation and People. He said, there will come a time, my people need another guidence.

Taking the Bible as the exclusive word of God means that no other gods and no other messengers are sent by him. That would make the Bible null and void. Cherry picking the bits that appear to agree with your beliefs allows you to introduce other gods and messengers as if they are the same god......in fact they are, but it isn't who most people think it is. According to scripture there are just two gods who desire our worship. Jehovah and his Adversary, who is never named. (satan and devil are both descriptions of his defective character)

If you understand what happened in the beginning, then you will understand all that took place after that...and why we see the presence of so many religions that are separated from the one prescribed by the God of the Bible....who is identified as the Creator of all things.

In the beginning, there was no opposition to God or any alternate plan for human occupation of this planet. There was no "religion" and no long list of laws, because there didn't need to be any. All humans would worship the true God in harmony, and populate the earth and take care of it as the Creator intended.
It was only when a spirit creature (a Cherub or high ranking angel) whom God had assigned to oversee things in Eden, began to develop feelings of envy because of the worship these lesser creatures were giving to God.

This creature was overcome by his own magnificence according to Ezekiel 28:12-15...and stole what was not his.....

"‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says:
“You were the model of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eʹden, the garden of God.

You were adorned with every precious stone
—Ruby, topaz, and jasper; chrysʹo·lite, onyx, and jade; sapphire, turquoise, and emerald;
And their settings and mountings were made of gold.
They were prepared on the day you were created.
14 I assigned you as the anointed covering cherub.
You were on the holy mountain of God, and you walked about among fiery stones.
15 You were faultless in your ways from the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.. . . .
So I will cast you out as profane from the mountain of God and destroy you,
O covering cherub, away from the stones of fire.
17 Your heart became haughty because of your beauty.
You corrupted your wisdom because of your own glorious splendor
."


To eliminate this rebel from your belief system is to muddy the waters of everything the Bible says about him. This creature is God's Adversary...his arch enemy. The whole Bible is about what he did to alienate humans from God and what God does to bring faithful ones back to him.
This free willed creature saw an opportunity to take what was God's by asking the humans to take what was not theirs.

By successfully separating them from their God and replacing him as their ruler, he was out to enjoy being a "god" himself, having humans do his bidding. He told the woman that they would be "like God" if they stole God's property, but in reality he was saying that he would become "like god" if they obeyed him. Romans 6:16 says that 'we become the slaves of those we obey'.

But as humans were designed to be spiritual beings by nature, they would naturally gravitate to spiritual things. In order to keep his recruits happy, the devil catered to their spiritual interests by first of all misrepresenting the true God.....then after the flood of Noah's day, through disobedient humans, he saw to it that when humankind were dispersed in the earth (Genesis 11:1-9) they created many religions with a host of different gods, who all resembled the Adversary.....because they were all representations of himself. He cared little about what god you worshipped or what religion you followed....because all false worship that is rejected by God, goes to him by default.

The apostle John stated that...."We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." So its is little wonder that the whole world is hoodwinked by him....there is no part of the world that is not. Sincerity does not make your worship correct.

It then stands to reason why Jesus said that "few" are in line for life. (Matthew 7:13-14)

The big picture is what most people never see. :( ....but its all there in plain sight if you ask God to help you understand what he had written in his word. To accept other faiths and scripture only creates confusion.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Yes, This what I see in Scriptures and it makes sense to me. God is not a robot to repeat exactly the same thing, or say one thing and leaves us forever and never come back.


"We did send apostles before thee, and appointed for them wives and children: and it was never the part of an apostle to bring a sign except as God permitted (or commanded). For each period is a Book (revealed). What He pleaseth will God abrogate or confirm: for with Him is the source of revelation." Quran 13:38-39


"Unto him do all creatures which are in heaven and earth make petition: Every day is He employed in some new work." Quran 55:29

So you are fine then with the revelation that God brought to Joseph Smith in America
in the 1800's? From the gold tablets God re-instituted the temple that Jesus rejected.
This is where Mormonism comes from.
I wonder how many other people have had revelations from God since that time?
Gets confusing.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Anybody can claim he is a Mahdi, Messiah, prophet or Messenger. Just because someone makes a claim, I don't believe, neither did Bahaullah ask anyone to believe Him blindly. We are to investigate. ;)
But you must, that is what your Iranian preacher said. 'Believe him even if he says that he is Allah'. You are just a covenant breaker. Your thought are 'haram'. Do you think Bahaollah was a fool to say what he said? What is there to investigate in Bahaollah's story? How can this be proved that he had a vision of the 'Maid of Heaven'? He too just made claims. We are discussing something serious and you are winking at me? What is this sort of behavior?
Quran 13:38-39
Quran 55:29
Why should anyone believe in what is written in Torah, Bible, Quran or any other book? Why should they be taken as words of any Allah / God?
I say they were spoken / written by frauds who had their own interests and ambitions. Prove me wrong.
What is the proof of even the existence of Allah / God?
 
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stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I see Mohammed as a ... thief and, in creating yet another
"bible", a consummate liar
I totally disagree with this, as if Christianity is the only revealed Scripture...your words are very belittling. But all are free to have their own opinion.
 

JesusKnowsYou

Active Member
Based on the Quran, which one of these statements are true:

A. The reason that God kept sending down Scriptures so many times, is because, everytime People eventually, divided into sects, and misinterpreted the Message of their messenger, so, Allah had to send another messenger to give the original message to correct misinterpretations and to unite them. This process continued from Adam, the first messenger, and continued to Noah, Abraham, Moses Jesus, and Muhammad, the seal of Prophets.

B. The reason that Allah kept sending down Scriptures, is because the Laws and teachings of God are suitable only for a certain period. Once the period was passed, people needed a different set of Laws and teachings in accordance with exigencies of the Age they lived in. Thus, God sent a Messenger to them with a New Law.

C. Both A and B

D. None of the above.

E. Others, please explain.
D - Just take A - remove Muhammad from it - and add Joseph Smith Jr. and other latter-day Prophets.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
I totally disagree with this, as if Christianity is the only revealed Scripture...your words are very belittling. But all are free to have their own opinion.

Is all scripture equal? I sometimes think about when I read Jesus' Sermon on the Mount.
Matt 5,6 and 7. There is something so "other wordly" about it.

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness. for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you
because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they
persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Nothing clever. No seeking revenge. The appeal to something higher. Nothing of earth and time. Not
just a wise man speaking wise things. Incredible Authority.

You don't see that in Mohammed, do you? Or Confucius.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Nothing clever. No seeking revenge. The appeal to something higher. Nothing of earth and time. Not
just a wise man speaking wise things. Incredible Authority.

You don't see that in Mohammed, do you? Or Confucius.
I have studied quite a few Hindu Scriptures and I read many profound verses. At least equal to the wisdom in the Bible.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Based on the Quran, which one of these statements are true:

A. The reason that God kept sending down Scriptures so many times, is because, everytime People eventually, divided into sects, and misinterpreted the Message of their messenger, so, Allah had to send another messenger to give the original message to correct misinterpretations and to unite them. This process continued from Adam, the first messenger, and continued to Noah, Abraham, Moses Jesus, and Muhammad, the seal of Prophets.

B. The reason that Allah kept sending down Scriptures, is because the Laws and teachings of God are suitable only for a certain period. Once the period was passed, people needed a different set of Laws and teachings in accordance with exigencies of the Age they lived in. Thus, God sent a Messenger to them with a New Law.

C. Both A and B

D. None of the above.

E. Others, please explain.

To this question, "the reason that God" etc, will ONLY receive assumptions and conjecture. No one will have any ability to ever read God's mind and tell anyone "the reason".
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
I have studied quite a few Hindu Scriptures and I read many profound verses. At least equal to the wisdom in the Bible.

Did Mohammed or Confucius make the claim Jesus made? Jesus came to be the one who
Redeemed His people to God, and laid down His life to that end. No pithy sayings, no conquests,
just a lowly man laying down His life to be the spotless lamb of God.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Is all scripture equal? I sometimes think about when I read Jesus' Sermon on the Mount.
Matt 5,6 and 7. There is something so "other wordly" about it.

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness. for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you
because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they
persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Nothing clever. No seeking revenge. The appeal to something higher. Nothing of earth and time. Not
just a wise man speaking wise things. Incredible Authority.

You don't see that in Mohammed, do you? Or Confucius.

I see when Christ returned, as the Glory of God, the Father, this was then offered;

"Blessed the slumberer who is awakened by My Breeze.

Blessed the lifeless one who is quickened through My reviving breaths.

Blessed the eye that is solaced by gazing at My beauty.

Blessed the wayfarer who directeth his steps towards the Tabernacle of My glory and majesty.

Blessed the distressed one who seeketh refuge beneath the shadow of My canopy.

Blessed the sore athirst who hasteneth to the soft-flowing waters of My loving-kindness.

Blessed the insatiate soul who casteth away his selfish desires for love of Me and taketh his place at the banquet table which I have sent down from the heaven of divine bounty for My chosen ones.

Blessed the abased one who layeth fast hold on the cord of My glory; and the needy one who entereth beneath the shadow of the Tabernacle of My wealth.

Blessed the ignorant one who seeketh the fountain of My knowledge; and the heedless one who cleaveth to the cord of My remembrance.

Blessed the soul that hath been raised to life through My quickening breath and hath gained admittance into My heavenly Kingdom.

Blessed the man whom the sweet savors of reunion with Me have stirred and caused to draw nigh unto the Dayspring of My Revelation.

Blessed the ear that hath heard and the tongue that hath borne witness and the eye that hath seen and recognized the Lord Himself, in His great glory and majesty, invested with grandeur and dominion.

Blessed are they that have attained His presence.

Blessed the man who hath sought enlightenment from the Daystar of My Word.

Blessed he who hath attired his head with the diadem of My love.

Blessed is he who hath heard of My grief and hath arisen to aid Me among My people.

Blessed is he who hath laid down his life in My path and hath borne manifold hardships for the sake of My name.

Blessed the man who, assured of My Word, hath arisen from among the dead to celebrate My praise.

Blessed is he that hath been enraptured by My wondrous melodies and hath rent the veils asunder through the potency of My might.

Blessed is he who hath remained faithful to My Covenant, and whom the things of the world have not kept back from attaining My Court of holiness.

Blessed is the man who hath detached himself from all else but Me, hath soared in the atmosphere of My love, hath gained admittance into My Kingdom, gazed upon My realms of glory, quaffed the living waters of My bounty, hath drunk his fill from the heavenly river of My loving providence, acquainted himself with My Cause, apprehended that which I concealed within the treasury of My Words, and hath shone forth from the horizon of divine knowledge engaged in My praise and glorification. Verily, he is of Me. Upon him rest My mercy, My loving-kindness, My bounty and My glory.". Baha'u'llah

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Did Mohammed or Confucius make the claim Jesus made? Jesus came to be the one who
Redeemed His people to God, and laid down His life to that end. No pithy sayings, no conquests,
just a lowly man laying down His life to be the spotless lamb of God.

The Bab made such a claim and mirrored Jesus the Christ sacrafices and was persecuted for double the time of 6 years before being executed.

The Bab was Elijah for this age.

So I say yes to your question because I see others have made the claims that Jesus the Christ made, how could it be otherwise, as it is God that sends the Messengers and gives them the Revelation.

Regards Tony
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Did Mohammed or Confucius make the claim Jesus made? Jesus came to be the one who
Redeemed His people to God, and laid down His life to that end. No pithy sayings, no conquests,
just a lowly man laying down His life to be the spotless lamb of God.
I don't talk about Muhammad or Confucious, I did not read much about their lives, so I don't know

But there are quite a few other Scriptures where Avatars made claims far bigger than Jesus made
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
But there are quite a few other Scriptures where Avatars made claims far bigger than Jesus made

Which is really a quandary for a Christian, but then it is not, when one makes the choice to clings to but a few verses of such an immense revelation and discount any that would make that stance untenable.

Regards Tony
 

Piculet

Active Member
Did Mohammed or Confucius make the claim Jesus made? Jesus came to be the one who
Redeemed His people to God, and laid down His life to that end. No pithy sayings, no conquests,
just a lowly man laying down His life to be the spotless lamb of God.
Does God need a lamb? In your view Jesus عليه السلام was not God then?
You don't see that in Mohammed, do you?
Have you read the Quran? It is other worldly in the sense that no one from this world could have written it.
Prove me wrong.
The Koran proved you wrong. End of story. If you want to see it — go ahead and read.
 
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