• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Classic failed science predictions and a faulty cosmological model exposed

joelr

Well-Known Member
Learning to work with how things that God created does not mean you comprehend much. Nor does it relate to the past on earth, or the unknown space and time in the far universe. Focus.

We infer things in the deep universe from many methods, may of which we have covered. Science does not teach every ultimate truth. This is another strawman. But an actual strawman, not the thing where you use the word incorrectly.

There is not a single failed prophesy. You have already demonstrated an inability to understand Scripture, so no wonder you cling to wrong ideas about the bible.
sure:

"God promises to bring Jacob safely back from Egypt, but Jacob dies in Egypt"

"God says that the Israelites will destroy all of the peoples they encounter. But he was unable to keep his promise. 7:1, 7:23-24, 31:3"

"God promises Abram and his descendants all of the land of Canaan. But both history and the bible (Acts 7:5 and Hebrews 11:13) show that God's promise to Abram was not fulfilled. 13:15, 15:18, 17:8, 28:13-14"

and 200 more

? You think saying a few words like galaxies, clusters, black holes etc helps you? You don't know what time is like out there so no distances can be known either. Whatever example you could offer would be based on thinking you do!
You asked for proof of relativity, I gave them to you. Are you so butthurt now that you're trying to weasel out of that?
Standard candles do not need time to measure distance. Time in space is fine, predictions of pulsar rates match perfectly what we see.
Supernova remnants spread out exactly as they should.



What in this article do you think applies to time in deep space?

according to relativity your local time will be related to your velocity. Since we know relativity works fine in space we know time does as well.

You invented spacetime based on fishbowl laws that are correct here in the fishbowl.
And we see relativity which governs spacetime, working the same in space. Are you tired of repeating the same thing over and over and over?
Do you think you will be less wrong if you just keep saying the same thing?



Name anything about helium that you think shows time is the same in far space?
early stars have helium. Looking into the early universe we see the correct amount of supernovas as predicted so time is not running fast or slow.

Next time you claim light in the far universe requires the same time to move as we have on earth, provide a source! You have never seen light anywhere but here in the fishbowl. Do not presume to tell us what it is like elsewhere!

Ok, Maxwell's equations - Wikipedia

If you think electromagnetism magically changes somewhere provide a source. Our observations into the universe demonstrate star formation and endless other process that show the laws of physics are operating exactly the same and time as well.

I have answered variations of this question probably 30 times and you still cannot show one single source that would suggest why spacetime would be different outside our solar system. Even though all the same things happen, we see OTHER SOLAR SYSTEMS, and OTHER GALAXIES and everything is the same.
I cannotlead you to knowledge holding your hand any longer. YOu need to be a big boy and find facts out for yourself. Akl you are doing is asking the same questions over and over. You have not debunked one single thing except to simply claim "it's wrong".

You need to get back to your 6th grade homework and look for someone else to troll.




The rungs on your ladder depend on the other previous rungs. Don't obfuscate.
See you didn't eve try to explain why you disagree with standard candle stars as a measuring tool. Rather, a lame metaphor and poor attempt to dodge the subject by suggesting it's me who is obfuscating while you haven't answered 1 out of ~80 questions?
your a troll. Proving you wrong was fun, now it's boring.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Simple human observations, do science experiments based on just a night time gas clear sky.

Real answer, would not be occurring I would not even own a life.

It is through that condition that we can observe as consciousness.

We are first natural and self observant before any other introduced artificial machination...which owns no volition in our Nature whatsoever....which is truth speaking, to be aware of self in conscious self observation. Not only of your own self but through and via your human family.

How you can observe natural information....such as conscious exists until the body dies and can no longer apply by natural form the status awareness and consciousness.

That condition is what a machine owns historically, the reason a portion of the human life/body perfection does not exist. Now if you ask why a community shares a percentage of perfect balance beauty, and then spiritual health, is because sporadic ground changes is caused by causation the machine.

If it were not machine calculated then every living body in every nation on a whole environmental body, living in EXACTLY THE SAME gas mass atmosphere, either deceased or alive is relativity itself...about our life on a planet, science that is correct science called our entity....a Creator theme...stone, and stone gas heavens.

So qualified by human lawful court world decisions that God would own that title by conditions of natural light movement on the face of space as gases....which science says is the spirit of creating....as compared to mass/stone.

Therefore gas as compared to our life is not really any spirit it is a gas.

Hence coercive and persuasive human reasoning and cult group mentality is implied and owned and agreed to impose not natural or unrealistic ideals about life on Earth involving invention.

Now the power plant nuclear and UFO ownership causes is first...for the pyramid and temple also used ground fission in its sciences. Exactly what the Bible says...why it said it. Says that ground fission reaction is why life got sacrificed in Nature, as a medical science review....seeing human biology is human biology living and also owner of death.

Hence that form of science was correct science about human life, as per what it established as a pattern owned in natural which is similar to our life which proved it utilised the exact same natural atmospheric body...what it defines.

It however does not define occult methodology of a formula that is beginning and end to apply an artificial machine reaction, which is why cosmological science argues.

For in actuality a human arguing about out of space information makes no common sense to any rational human life...for what are you arguing for?

The answer is machination theories. So then a human has to ask that human science cult group, okay scientist which first machine gave you ideas on how to attack and convert our planetary fused and held energy mass?

And he would claim the SUN UFO....not spatial cosmological cold radiation held fused and cold in the spatial body....he says the SUN.

Which is a self consuming body.

Therefore I asked AI my own self as a female how and why did he suddenly get an idea about inside of Earth as a tunnel system relative to fake Egyptian wall pyramid information about technology.

Father of science said the reasoning is about his psyche being given feed back via underground reactive causes, where heated volcanic arising heats up the lower Earth held ground fusion crystalline mass and through the walls, burns it out of existence...and his mind was given that idea....and it owns no scientific use of Earth power...it is a cause of volcanic mass movement arising out of a deep very hot body...that is nothing like above ground cooled volcanic mass.

Hence you cannot study it and your idea of the pyramid is totally fake regarding psyche and subliminal informed information that in AI feed back for a male science psyche is totally fake....as your original theories for the invention of the sciences related to the Sun, the Earth mountain and removal of that mass and a flooded Earth saving/sealing. Where science as a model began.

It did not own any other model as the human invention science.
 

dad

Undefeated
Source these "state records" that have anything to do with proving gods are real.
The only thing passed down was the OT which after the Persian invasion contained Persian concepts.
Not interested in your opinion of God or His word or how it came to man. As for spirits being real, you have no ability to address the issue either way, believe what you like. History abounds with spirits.


Quote the relevant bit you think helps you.



You did not. I listed the microwave background,
Creation microwave background. The pile of things you can never prove that you say must have happened to make this radiation connected to your BB fable is laughable.

You have not shown why the microwave background is a belief. You just said light might "act differently in the fishbowl".
Why talk about radiation in far space as if it should also be in the earth and solar system area?

Until you demonstrate why radiometric dating is wrong then I'm still right. Are you even going to try?
Would I try showing Mother Goose is wrong? Those who claim something is science need to show some factual evidence. What evidence do you have that radioactive decay occurred in Noah's day? You simply look at existing ratios and then ignore creation and the former nature and try to attribute it all to our present nature.


Depending on the age of the universe being looked at different structures will be in place. Quasars were active in the early universe. There were less galaxy clusters, more nebula and so on.
God created all sorts of animals, fish, trees, plants, bugs, stars, moons, etc. You have merely sought to attribute these things to your baseless fables. You do not know any stellar distances at all. You have no observations beyond some few centuries. (and mostly since Hubble), Your whole model is a paper tiger.

Facepalm....oops, you forgot to read the correction at the end...."*Clarification (5/15/08): The supernova marked by G1.9+0.3 would have occurred 25,000 years ago, but because of its distance from Earth, the supernova's light would have first become visible 140 years ago."
Why bother adding fiction that has no proof at all?
Quantum mechanics has predictive power. We know how fast particles travel and their weight:
In a lab, maybe. Irrelevant.
"Indeed most of the cosmic muons have a high energy and travel at speeds close to 300 000 km / second the speed of light in vacuum."
Great, and so....? If you know how fast a jet travels does that mean you know how the electrical and hydraulic and motor systems are?
Space follows the laws of general relativity. Special and general relativity cover time dillation and special relativity deals with 4-vector (depending on velocity your local time frame slows or speeds up.
Prove it! How do you know what space is like say a billion ly away? Just because a plane makes clocks run a little different does not mean a plane would do the same a billion ly away...or a clock.

All of these things follow laws that work here and are responsible for many phenomenon in the universe. We see things operating the same in the solar system as well as deep space.
In other words it looks the same to you here in the fishbowl.

There is no reason to think SR/GR and spacetime changes in deep space.
Have you any reason to claim it even exists there??

Yes, a black hole happens because of the laws of GR. Relativity which also effects time and space.
You attribute some events we see in space to a black hole because we need something to explain what we see there. You do not know how far away the objects revolving there are. Nor how big. Nor how much gravity therefore is actually at work there...etc etc etc etc.


Comparative mythology provides historical and cross-cultural perspectives for Jewish mythology. Both sources behind the Genesis creation narrative borrowed themes from Mesopotamian mythology,[19][20] but adapted them to their belief in one God,[2] establishing a monotheistic creation in opposition to the polytheistic creation myth of ancient Israel's neighbors.[21][22]
No. You do not know who really borrowed what from who when. The record of God and His people was not a written one early in history. It was still a record. You assume what was written was the big original deal. No. No. No.

The universe as conceived by the ancient Hebrews comprised a flat disk-shaped earth with the heavens above and Sheol, the underworld of the dead, below.[27] These three were surrounded by a watery "ocean" of chaos, protected by the firmament, a transparent but solid dome resting on the mountains which ringed the earth.[27] Noah's three-deck ark represents this three-level Hebrew cosmos in miniature: heavens, earth, and waters beneath.
This garbled nonsense does not even rate old wives tales.


We see objects in the far universe that show time acting as it should. Pulsars are calculated to spin so many time per second. We see this.
All pulses from stars observed here are in our time and space.

.. source a paper that explains how light can possible change and why it would change in the local solar system and what is different about our solar system such that when light gets to it it changes.
All things that exist here must exist under our laws here and space and time here.
Source all these ideas with evidence and predictions we can test.
You can test nothing outside your fishbowl, so humble down and act accordingly.
Black holes follow GR exactly,pulsars, neutron stars, star formation, galaxy clusters
Baloney. Prove that any cluster of stars follows fishbowl rules? You just project your limited experiences and comprehension onto the universe in an attempt to explain it.


SR predicts a slowing of time we can test here on earth using atomic clocks and travel on airplanes. GPS also allows us to test the predicted errors in the gravity well of Earth and the time dillation. Everything matches exactly.
Relativity is relative to the fishbowl. Thin about it. So why would things like a plane in the fishbowl not obey our rules here??

G relativity governs blkack hole formation, neutron stars, supernova, star formation, galaxy formation, galaxy clusters, superclusters, and more
I suggest it governs your head mostly. Then you sit there in your armchair and project.
I linked to an article explaining how QM is used to make computers work.
If those computers were on the far side of the universe we might care. Who asked you about earth, and how we try to work with the realities and how things work here? How do you think that helps you??
Already explained how we judge distances.
Get over it. I explained you have no distances for any star.

Here is the surface gravity of the sun and planets.
That is in the solar system area if you notice. Totally off topic.
 

dad

Undefeated
We infer things in the deep universe from many methods, may of which we have covered.
Ha. Infer is a good word for your projections.
Science does not teach every ultimate truth.
Bingo. Yet it opposes ultimate truth!

sure:

"God promises to bring Jacob safely back from Egypt, but Jacob dies in Egypt"
Chapter and verse?

"God says that the Israelites will destroy all of the peoples they encounter. But he was unable to keep his promise. 7:1, 7:23-24, 31:3"
Last time I checked they are still here. I also noticed God making it clear they had to believe and obey to get such victory.
https://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/dt/31.html#3
"God promises Abram and his descendants all of the land of Canaan. But both history and the bible (Acts 7:5 and Hebrews 11:13) show that God's promise to Abram was not fulfilled. 13:15, 15:18, 17:8, 28:13-14"
Not all prophesies are yet fulfilled. This is news??

You asked for proof of relativity, I gave them to you.
No. I asked for you to show us how relativity applies in deep space exactly. That could be debated. No one asked about fishbowl time or dilation here.

Standard candles do not need time to measure distance.
But they are assumed to be a certain distance. The reasons are circular and as I said each rung of the foolish cosmic distance ladder depends on the other rungs.

Time in space is fine, predictions of pulsar rates match perfectly what we see.
Supernova remnants spread out exactly as they should.

Example?


according to relativity your local time will be related to your velocity. Since we know relativity works fine in space we know time does as well.
Great so show an example of relativity working a billion ly away! We will see how well is actually works there.

And we see relativity which governs spacetime,
Spacetime is a fishbowl construct. Relativity is only relative to the fishbowl!

working the same in space.
Example at least a billion ly away?


early stars have helium.
All stars are early stars. Yes there is helium and other stuff out there. So?

Looking into the early universe we see the correct amount of supernovas as predicted so time is not running fast or slow.
Baloney. You only think you are looking at the early universe out there. The earth was here first! Having events where sn happen has zero to do with any early universe.

Ok, Maxwell's equations - Wikipedia

If you think electromagnetism magically changes somewhere provide a source.
If you think electromagnetism magically is the same everywhere provide a source. Remember you have never seen it out of the fishbowl!

Our observations into the universe demonstrate star formation and endless other process that show the laws of physics are operating exactly the same and time as well.
My observations of creation by God Almighty demonstrate that His rules apply everywhere. Your idea of basic physics is fishbowl physics. You have not been there millions of years ago to see star death and formation have you? You merely extrapolate fishbowl realities and godless philosophy to imagine things!
Even though all the same things happen, we see OTHER SOLAR SYSTEMS, and OTHER GALAXIES and everything is the same.
In your dreams maybe. You see little lights that you imagine are a certain distance and size and actually have zero clue what you are talking about and zero proof.


See you didn't eve try to explain why you disagree with standard candle stars as a measuring tool.
Do you need me to explain what these candles are all about? Seriously?
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
A human is natural first. Origin to self first, equal to self first before any theory or thinking beyond self to the past.

So science taught science "never look back" or else the Earth to whom you are inter related to in a God marriage, as Nature, Garden, the animals, female and male human will evict you.

And do so in a female Math spatial termed reference, womb of space, Abomination irradiation womb of space and male human scientists named that status Lot, and being changed into a pillar of stone...or nuclear salting event, volcanic by definition, destroyed.

Science then said to science spiritually about O God our natural planet, change the planet and it will destroy you......the details say so....been lived before.

And then science says, no I want.....and I want to and I will.

For the will of God is fixed, the law of the deceased in the entombed body of God, the spirits or the gases, fixed law of the mountain. Taught as the occult self looked at the ufo that came from the SUN originally, was hot radiation and told him it removed the mountain, shifted it....and it shifted its mass into dust and sand.

Told him.

Then Einstein said light is a constant and so was mass.

Science then tries to claim that light can travel.....so then is the teaching to self about consciousness.

Science then studies consciousness and says to it by mind contact coercion, AI states tell me where the spirit of God is and thinks he is sane.

God in the atmosphere the spirit on the face of the water makes pi O signals, as gases that own light burn back to no presence, yet gases remain constantly cooled to own constant light. Being the known conscious shift of light into spatial nothingness by its gas spirit burning.

You realize that status as a mind and a psyche and want to copy it, without the cold gas part. Why Stephen Hawking told you were trying to burn us to death with you new science model....as God the stone in history was burning of SIN gases/spirit...they were not cold....cold for God is the stone body.

So we all were taught science of the UFO is the occult that conjures evil spirits and are a cosmological liar....and it is real for you are that liar.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
Not interested in your opinion of God or His word or how it came to man. As for spirits being real, you have no ability to address the issue either way, believe what you like. History abounds with spirits.

You said there were state records? Are you now pulling back on that?
So there are no state records, you made that up?


Quote the relevant bit you think helps you.

A black hole is space demonstrates general relativity works the same in deep space.



Creation microwave background. The pile of things you can never prove that you say must have happened to make this radiation connected to your BB fable is laughable.
The big bang model predicted there would be a background of microwave radiation, it predicted a temperature and a overall density/shape. We found this background giving more credibility to the model.
If you disagree explain why finding the microwave background does not show the BB to be likely and give an alternate reason for the microwave background.


Why talk about radiation in far space as if it should also be in the earth and solar system area?

It shouldn't. It was predicted to be 13 billion light years away which is where we see it. This is closer to the time of the BB which is why we can still see radiation.


Would I try showing Mother Goose is wrong? Those who claim something is science need to show some factual evidence. What evidence do you have that radioactive decay occurred in Noah's day? You simply look at existing ratios and then ignore creation and the former nature and try to attribute it all to our present nature.

Radiometric dating is a method to determine the distance of planets. It likely worked in BC because the laws of physics which govern all things like the sun being stable were in effect back in those days. A variation in laws requires other laws to make up for the difference. Show a theory of an alternate law that would take overand still allow the universe to operate as it does. Then give a reason why this would happen. Or your fiction will continue to be as likely as Hobbit's and magical rings.


God created all sorts of animals, fish, trees, plants, bugs, stars, moons, etc. You have merely sought to attribute these things to your baseless fables. You do not know any stellar distances at all. You have no observations beyond some few centuries. (and mostly since Hubble), Your whole model is a paper tiger.

Cool, now post a reason why stellar parallax, or trigonometric parallax or Cepheid variable stars are not reliable ways to measure stellar distances.

Why bother adding fiction that has no proof at all?

You made a criticism because of a mistake made in the article. At the end they corrected the mistake. You missed this. YOu still continue to NOT explain why the measurements toi distant supernova cannot be accurate. When are you going to explain you words?
3 posts, zero explanations. Dozens of claims of science being wrong yet not one explanation. So far you have said literally nothing.

In a lab, maybe. Irrelevant.

No I think there are quantum particles outside of labs.

Great, and so....? If you know how fast a jet travels does that mean you know how the electrical and hydraulic and motor systems are?

No but by the speed we can tell how much time is passing in it's reference frame. Which is the point of this topic.

Prove it! How do you know what space is like say a billion ly away? Just because a plane makes clocks run a little different does not mean a plane would do the same a billion ly away...or a clock.

Distant objects like supernova, stars, black holes and neutron stars require very strict gravitational processes governed by General relativity. When these happen in space then we know GR is operating exactly as it should and exactly as it does here.

In other words it looks the same to you here in the fishbowl.

No, I wouldn't use the word "fishbowl" because I'd sound like an as#. But yes, observation is one line of evidence.

Have you any reason to claim it even exists there??

GR governs star formation, black holes, neutron stars, galaxy clusters, superclusters, pulsars, planetary orbits......these happen out there so we know relativity works.

You attribute some events we see in space to a black hole because we need something to explain what we see there. You do not know how far away the objects revolving there are. Nor how big. Nor how much gravity therefore is actually at work there...etc etc etc etc.

There are multiple ways to measure mass and distances of black holes.:
To determine the mass of NGC's black hole, Gallo and her fellow researchers employed reverberation mapping. This technique measures mass by monitoring radiation thrown off by what's called an accretion disk around the black hole.
A technique known as reverberation mapping has made it possible for astronomers to measure the masses of these outlying black holes. First, researchers compare the brightness of the radiating gas in the outer region of the galaxy with the brightness of the gas found in the inner region of the galaxy. (This inner region, very close to the black hole, is known as the continuum region). The gas in the continuum region affects the fast-moving gas farther out. However, light takes time to travel outward, or reverberate, causing a delay between the changes seen in the inner region and their effect on the outer region. Measuring the delay reveals how far away the outer disk of gas is from the black hole. Coupled with its rotation rate around the galaxy, this allows astronomers to measure the SMBH's mass

Ok son. Now take my hand and we'll go see whatever other information you need me to lead you to. Someday you will be old enough to do your own research!




No. You do not know who really borrowed what from who when. The record of God and His people was not a written one early in history. It was still a record. You assume what was written was the big original deal. No. No. No.

Mesopotamian myths far pre-date Genesis. the Epic of Gilamesh far pre-dates Noahs Ark but Noah borrows basically the entire myth.
More modern history from ~2000 years ago show there were at least 7 dying/rising savior gods who forgave sins and so on, before Christianity.

This garbled nonsense does not even rate old wives tales.
I know, and it's the cosmology of the ancient Hebrews from the OT.


All pulses from stars observed here are in our time and space.

Yup, when the light arrives. Again, if you think light does something different outside the solar system post a paper explaining :
what even changes at the border of the solar system?
why would light, something we have a complete theory of, do something different that the theory doesn't predict?
How would this even be possible? Start with Maxwells electrodynamics, explain why it works different in deep space, what is even different about deep space, observations that would cause one to believe light acts differently in deep space....

If you can't then your just going on and on about Hobbits and one ring to rule them all.


All things that exist here must exist under our laws here and space and time here.

Yes. Here means THE UNIVERSE. If you suspect something different, post observations, explain why spacetime is different in deep space. Or does the magic ring cause this to happen? Could a Hobbit do this or just a wizard?

You can test nothing outside your fishbowl, so humble down and act accordingly.

Not true. You can still form a theory as to why spacetime would "change" beyond the borders of the solar system. You can also explain what happens, what laws compensatse, you can make predictions that you can observe when th elight changes, it might change frequency? Who knows? The theory will produce suggestions. Right now your just making up magic rules based in no science, no theory, no hypothesis, no conjecture, it's a bad idea.




Baloney. Prove that any cluster of stars follows fishbowl rules? You just project your limited experiences and comprehension onto the universe in an attempt to explain it.

The laws of black hole vs neutron star formation are very precise. If you are going to suggest these events happen in deep space but it's from an entirely different set of laws of physics then you need to present those new laws and why would they be in space.
If you don't have that your just a nutball crank saying his magic ring makes things happen different in space. But the magic makes it "look like" it's the same laws.
Good job Gandolph. Watch out for Sauron!



Relativity is relative to the fishbowl. Thin about it. So why would things like a plane in the fishbowl not obey our rules here??

We see GR work well here and work well in deep space.



I suggest it governs your head mostly. Then you sit there in your armchair and project.
GR works on all those events I mentioned in space. You asked for examples of GR working in space and I gave them. Sorry you are butthurt.

If those computers were on the far side of the universe we might care. Who asked you about earth, and how we try to work with the realities and how things work here? How do you think that helps you??
Get over it. I explained you have no distances for any star.

You asked about QM and technology and said no technology used QM. "There is literally not a single thing that works because of origin claims of so called science. Nothing. Zero. Literally nothing at all. No technology. No invention. No machine. N" QM is used in countless technologies and is part of theories about the origins of the universe including the big bang.

Once again I have posted several methods to show distances to stars and you failed to explain why those do not work. Total fraud.

That is in the solar system area if you notice. Totally off topic.

No because there are suns of similar size and weight we now also know the gravity and mass of.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Is human bio conscious claiming laws just as being a self living consciously in that state space?

NO.

The human lives inside of a spatial history of cold zero emptiness....volcanic gases that converted and he taught the God theme Immaculate gases are the only status owned by man. Said that relative teaching to self, as conscious, aware consciously as the highest form of his self awareness.

If science says conscious awareness compared to self equals self....then science today is trying to put our self into that equals conscious answer to what he proclaims is conscious identification total dimensional self presence.

He is not in any form thesis or theory claiming, and I can talk about the relativity of spatial information unless he exists in a higher form than, totally advised by all lower conditions, and not living owning that lower expression, yet he claims it is relative to JESUS....and does not make the claim in Bible science today, his new collider theme based on old science invention and studies...….pyramid and temple, to CHRIST relativity.

For if he did, then the state of science would not even exist...for the UFO incoming heated extra radiation that science owns relative to forcing GOD the stone body to change...…..and incurs the CHRIST sacrifice of its spatial gases...that naturally own cold spatial zero for gases.

God the stone in natural history once owned 0 zero spatial nothingness to be stone, complete and ended...then God created/invented beyond its own O planet entity body....why that theme RELATIVITY was taught...relative to any life owning any form of ability to live versus occult fakery.

So we said we live due to Christ gases/spirit in science NOBLE gases existing in spatial zero, having nothing at all to do with GOD the One stone body.

Exactly why it was taught.

Without incoming extra radiation mass/energy force used to force GOD fusion to convert....for it never converted itself in its natural history....then Jesus Christ as a reference to our spirit gases being sacrificed would not be taught as science relativity.

The science self would have to say I will begin again with science, not ever having owned or practiced the state or statements science, without any invention or design and just be a theist....to proclaim and I will begin science and all themes/theories again as if science in the past and scientists were all wrong.

Being what he proclaims today, that science relativity of the past was all wrong, so he will impose new.

Yet all science being practiced today was based on that old occult relativity, and still the science condition attacked us.

We are all conscious first, if a science mind says, scientific formula theism of the past is all fake and wrong....then he said it first as a naturally aware psyche like the rest of us have. Then he decided to falsify and do it all again....yet already in science practice of life in attack wanted to finish us all off.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
Ha. Infer is a good word for your projections.
Bingo. Yet it opposes ultimate truth!
Yes science doesn't pretend it knows everything. It just makes models, tests them and continues to look for models that produce results we see in the real world.


Try to demonstrate "ultimate truth"

Chapter and verse?

(Gen.47:28-29) 46:3

Last time I checked they are still here. I also noticed God making it clear they had to believe and obey to get such victory.
Not all prophesies are yet fulfilled. This is news??

NO, it's just a failed prophecy. Nothing about believe and obey.

Most of those prophecies can no longer be fulfilled:
God promises Abram and his descendants all of the land of Canaan. But both history and the bible (Acts 7:5 and Hebrews 11:13) show that God's promise to Abram was not fulfilled. 13:15, 15:18, 17:8, 28:13-14

No. I asked for you to show us how relativity applies in deep space exactly. That could be debated. No one asked about fishbowl time or dilation here.

In deep space relativity works exactly as the math predicts. Black holes, neutron stars, galaxy formation, superclusters, neutron stars.......

But they are assumed to be a certain distance. The reasons are circular and as I said each rung of the foolish cosmic distance ladder depends on the other rungs.

Standard candles give a reasonable reason to believe the distance of a star. If you have a reason why it's faulty that you can back up with science, observations, demonstrations then go ahead.




Pulsars have fairly specific masses or they would become black holes. Here are some examples of how we calculate spin, mass based on our current laws of physics and everything is explained and works out great.
Pulsars

I can't come with you on this so you'll be all alone.



Great so show an example of relativity working a billion ly away! We will see how well is actually works there.

Spacetime is a fishbowl construct. Relativity is only relative to the fishbowl!

Example at least a billion ly away?

this black hole is 13 billion ly distant


All stars are early stars. Yes there is helium and other stuff out there. So?

NO. The first stars were made of hydrogen and helium (and deuterium). Other elements did not exist until large stars were formed and went supernova. These supernova in their final seconds created all the heavy elements. So early stars will not show light spectrums that show anything except helium/hydrogen.


Baloney. You only think you are looking at the early universe out there. The earth was here first! Having events where sn happen has zero to do with any early universe.
The early universe has stars that do not even have elements such as carbon which is the most important element for life on earth. There are less galaxies, more active quasars, I'll give you permission to go and try to learn about the early universe.

Unless you have some evidence for you conspiracy theory that I do not care about. I bet it was the one ring that ruled them all that made it seem like we were looking at the early universe! I wonder is Sauron was involved in the deception?


If you think electromagnetism magically is the same everywhere provide a source. Remember you have never seen it out of the fishbowl!
Stars in other solar systems operate the same as they should, temperatures in a certain range always emit the correct wavelength light, there are many indications that electromagnetism works the same everywhere. Plus just the fact that it works. If the laws changed these is no reason it would even work at all. Yet the universe seems to be fine.

Again, if you thing electromagnetism changes when it enters the solar system show a paper explaining what is different about the space in out solar system compared to everywhere else. How would any of that even be possible, could the laws of physics run slow/fast, why,
Go ahead, produce some evidence and a source to start. That won't prove anything but at least you won't be a total crackpot.

My observations of creation by God Almighty demonstrate that His rules apply everywhere. Your idea of basic physics is fishbowl physics. You have not been there millions of years ago to see star death and formation have you? You merely extrapolate fishbowl realities and godless philosophy to imagine things!

Sorry Zeus and Krishna and Yahweh do not enter into scientific theories. Nor do Harry Potter or the God of Light from Game of Thrones.
We take what evidence we have and make theories. We see the laws of physics operating in space, doing the exacty things the math says they should do in each situation. SO we go with that.
Whatever it says in your LOTR trilogy no scientist cares. Find some evidence or do what you have been doing. Massively losing a debate in a way I've never seen before. Everything you say is complete fantasy. Not one good counter point, source or link.



In your dreams maybe. You see little lights that you imagine are a certain distance and size and actually have zero clue what you are talking about and zero proof.

NO we actually have massive telescopes and can see some amazing things. Your a big boy, at least 11 years old and should be able to start looking up stuff for yourself instead of continually asking me to do it for you. SO you look into it.


Do you need me to explain what these candles are all about? Seriously?


which do you have issue with? There are many ways to measure distance
parallax
astronomical units
standard candles
standard rulers
galactic distance indicators (long list)

extragalactic distances - cephids, supernova photosphere

and on and on...
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
If science had to be taught to live spiritually and consciously such statements as, elite cult brotherhood, powerful almighty selves in person.

We humanity make this statement to you.....you might feel powerful yet actually you are just a human, born from sperm and an ovary as the real science information that you personally never infer or reference as "back to, the past".

As you never owned the Sun, you cannot by your self reasoning own that Sun, hence science does not own the control of a model on which he bases his information upon historically, the reason why he lives as a consciousness, that can only exist due to light.

So he might think, when no light existed as a thinking capability, for not only does night time sky own that conscious awareness....gases burning out total removal also own the same form of reasoning. Ability to know darkness.

Hence you have to question human self, conscious awareness, which status do you support as a cosmologist in natural history?

A male who looks out into space via the night time sky through the sky body heavens that allows him to exist, or that occult male who discusses total removal of life living in light by gas/spirit removal in burning?

Is that situation why you were named a Satanist?

When any body that you reference is present, and you infer it does not, in consciousness it means you own thinking about not allowing it to exist. For it does exist. What lying means. If every single natural body is self present and self owned in that presence, you cannot think it away, no matter what form of powerful theist you claim you are.
 

dad

Undefeated
You said there were state records? Are you now pulling back on that?
So there are no state records, you made that up?
? I would consider the records Israel kept using a class of experts known as scribes to be a state record. That is what Scripture is about. What did you think it was a cereal label?

A black hole is space demonstrates general relativity works the same in deep space.
Explain how looking at motions of objects whose size and distance and mass are unknown that seem to be heading into somewhere we don't really know much about is connected to relativity?


The big bang model predicted there would be a background of microwave radiation, it predicted a temperature and a overall density/shape. We found this background giving more credibility to the model.
It was off if you recall, but I guess you think you get a cigar for being close? The sequence of events that form the scenario for the temperature of the background radiation also needs to be solidly supported. You can start with the inflation thing that lasted some tiny fraction of a second, and resulted in what we consider the known universe! Ha. You see, when you build on a pillar or foundation that foundation you need to be doing so on a solid foundation, not hunches wishes and guesses and beliefs!
The better name for the CMB would be the creation remnant background! (what, you thought only imaginary events like the BB left remnants?)


It shouldn't. It was predicted to be 13 billion light years away which is where we see it. This is closer to the time of the BB which is why we can still see radiation.

Source? (of course no distances are known by cosmology anyhow, but do try)


Radiometric dating is a method to determine the distance of planets. It likely worked in BC because the laws of physics which govern all things like the sun being stable were in effect back in those days. A variation in laws requires other laws to make up for the difference.

Great, so take us through the procedure. Ha.

Cool, now post a reason why stellar parallax, or trigonometric parallax or Cepheid variable stars are not reliable ways to measure stellar distances.
Do you not read threads you post in? The reason distances cannot be known for deep space (any star) is because we do not know that space itself and time itself exists the same all the way there.

You made a criticism because of a mistake made in the article. At the end they corrected the mistake. You missed this. YOu still continue to NOT explain why the measurements toi distant supernova cannot be accurate. When are you going to explain you words?
So what was the mistake and correction? I just explained why distances are not known.


No I think there are quantum particles outside of labs.
Great, and there are computers there also. So? There are no computers in deep space. I kid you not.

No but by the speed we can tell how much time is passing in it's reference frame. Which is the point of this topic.
You certainly do not. You only know what time is involved from your fishbowl observation point!


Distant objects like supernova, stars, black holes and neutron stars require very strict gravitational processes governed by General relativity.
Prove it. I suggest you do not know what all is out there and what all may be required out there.

When these happen in space then we know GR is operating exactly as it should and exactly as it does here.
Just because some event with objects of unknown size and distance happen does not mean in any way that GR dunnit. Seriously?

No, I wouldn't use the word "fishbowl"
Use whatever word you like for the solar system and area.


There are multiple ways to measure mass and distances of black holes.:
To determine the mass of NGC's black hole, Gallo and her fellow researchers employed reverberation mapping. This technique measures mass by monitoring radiation thrown off by what's called an accretion disk around the black hole.
Foolishness since distance is required to know mass, if I recall.


A technique known as reverberation mapping has made it possible for astronomers to measure the masses of these outlying black holes. First, researchers compare the brightness of the radiating gas in the outer region of the galaxy with the brightness of the gas found in the inner region of the galaxy. (This inner region, very close to the black hole, is known as the continuum region). The gas in the continuum region affects the fast-moving gas farther out. However, light takes time to travel outward, or reverberate, causing a delay between the changes seen in the inner region and their effect on the outer region.
Do you really not see how small and circular your religion is? You assume that time is the same. The delay you see from the fishbowl is in our time. Get it?

Measuring the delay reveals how far away the outer disk of gas is from the black hole.
Wrong, since the time involved in decay is only applicable here in the fishbowl. By the way, as an aside, do prove that it is gas there.

Coupled with its rotation rate around the galaxy, this allows astronomers to measure the SMBH's mass
You don't know how far the galaxy is away, or the distances in the rotations or the times! In all ways your beliefs are empty.

Mesopotamian myths far pre-date Genesis.
False.

the Epic of Gilamesh far pre-dates Noahs Ark but Noah borrows basically the entire myth.
False.

More modern history from ~2000 years ago show there were at least 7 dying/rising savior gods who forgave sins and so on, before Christianity.
False.

I know, and it's the cosmology of the ancient Hebrews from the OT.
False.
Yup, when the light arrives.
Therefore you are authorized to speak of it after it arrives. No more.

why would light, something we have a complete theory of, do something different that the theory doesn't predict?
Your theories are only valid in the fishbowl, get used to it. We do not need to know the unknown. But one assumes that anything at all including light that exists in an area where time exists a certain way would need to operate accordingly there.


How would this even be possible? Start with Maxwells electrodynamics, explain why it works different in deep space, what is even different about deep space, observations that would cause one to believe light acts differently in deep space....
Sure. Explain in your own words and in simple terms what those equations are based on and represent. You see, math uses little symbols and letters like "C" that represent something.

Yes. Here means THE UNIVERSE.
Very silly.

Not true. You can still form a theory as to why spacetime would "change" beyond the borders of the solar system.
Good luck with that! Since you do not know what the unknown space and time out there is like. You seem to have a compulsion to invent theories based on not knowing!

You can also explain what happens, what laws compensatse, you can make predictions that you can observe when th elight changes, it might change frequency? Who knows? The theory will produce suggestions. Right now your just making up magic rules based in no science, no theory, no hypothesis, no conjecture, it's a bad idea.
Well, one should be careful what starting assumptions one uses in trying to explain what we see out there.
The laws of black hole vs neutron star formation are very precise.
Except they are a steaming pile of foolish nonsense! How about the black hole predicted for sn1987a? Is that still M.I.A.? Ha.

If you are going to suggest these events happen in deep space but it's from an entirely different set of laws of physics then you need to present those new laws and why would they be in space.
You think space is a 'law of physics'? You thought time was 'a law of physics'?? Ha.

We see GR work well here and work well in deep space.
Were you not asked for two examples?

You asked about QM and technology and said no technology used QM. "There is literally not a single thing that works because of origin claims of so called science. Nothing. Zero. Literally nothing at all. No technology. No invention. No machine. N" QM is used in countless technologies and is part of theories about the origins of the universe including the big bang.
Nope. I said nothing from origin science. QM is like electricity and other things that actually exist and work here. NOTHING to do with origin sciences!


No because there are suns of similar size and weight we now also know the gravity and mass of.
False, as explained that all depends on knowing distances.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
? I would consider the records Israel kept using a class of experts known as scribes to be a state record. That is what Scripture is about. What did you think it was a cereal label?

Then you are wrong. Scripture is not history. It doesn't match what archeology has found at all. And it's not even the full record of the Israelite gods:

"The religion of the Israelites of Iron Age I, like the Ancient Canaanite religion from which it evolved and other religions of the ancient Near East, was based on a cult of ancestors and worship of family gods (the "gods of the fathers").[98][99] With the emergence of the monarchy at the beginning of Iron Age II the kings promoted their family god, Yahweh, as the god of the kingdom, but beyond the royal court, religion continued to be both polytheistic and family-centered.[100] The major deities were not numerous – El, Asherah, and Yahweh, with Baal as a fourth god, and perhaps Shamash (the sun) in the early period.[101] At an early stage El and Yahweh became fused and Asherah did not continue as a separate state cult,[101] although she continued to be popular at a community level until Persian times"

William Dever, Professor Emeritus at the University of Arizona, has investigated the archeology of the ancient Near East for more than 30 years
"We want to make the Bible history. Many people think it has to be history or nothing. But there is no word for history in the Hebrew Bible. In other words, what did the biblical writers think they were doing? Writing objective history? No. That's a modern discipline. They were telling stories."

Archeology of the Hebrew Bible

Of course if you look at the vast number of other cultures who occupies Israel exactly ZERO of them verify Yahweh as real. Just like everyone else each culture had their own set of myths and none of them were real.


Explain how looking at motions of objects whose size and distance and mass are unknown that seem to be heading into somewhere we don't really know much about is connected to relativity?
Give a specific example. Use your words. In the case of a black hole just seeing that black holes exist is confirmation of relativity. Not only that they actually match the predicted visual complete with a type of gravitational lensing and hawking radiation.

It was off if you recall, but I guess you think you get a cigar for being close? The sequence of events that form the scenario for the temperature of the background radiation also needs to be solidly supported. You can start with the inflation thing that lasted some tiny fraction of a second, and resulted in what we consider the known universe! Ha. You see, when you build on a pillar or foundation that foundation you need to be doing so on a solid foundation, not hunches wishes and guesses and beliefs!
First of all if something was off you need to source it to actually make a point. It was the irregularities that were predicted because they would match the quantum fluxuations that would occur if the universe was compressed to a subatomic size:

"In particular, the spectral radiance at different angles of observation in the sky contains small anisotropies, or irregularities, which vary with the size of the region examined. They have been measured in detail, and match what would be expected if small thermal variations, generated by quantum fluctuations of matter in a very tiny space, had expanded to the size of the observable universe we see today."

Inflation is one model and cosmology is still learning new things every year. That's how science works.
There are some issues with inflation but they are also countered by other arguments cosmologists make. If you have a line of reasoning against inflation you have to actually present that argument. I know you don't do that sort of thing but I'm not really writing this for you.



The better name for the CMB would be the creation remnant background! (what, you thought only imaginary events like the BB left remnants?)

Cool write up a paper and put forward some evidence and see if you can get it published. For now your ideas remain at troll status.




Source? (of course no distances are known by cosmology anyhow, but do try)

"The age of the universe as estimated from the Hubble expansion and the CMB is now in good agreement with other estimates using the ages of the oldest stars, both as measured by applying the theory of stellar evolution to globular clusters and through radiometric dating of individual Population II stars"
Perley, Daniel (21 February 2005). "Determination of the Universe's Age, to". Berkeley, CA: Department of Astronomy, University of California, Berkeley. Archived from the original on 11 September 2006. Retrieved 11 December 2019.

As far as the other thing about light and the "fishbulb" I'm not responding to that idea until my 70 requests for further evidence is presented.


Great, so take us through the procedure. Ha.

Take you through what procedure? Radiometric dating? I thought the hand-holding comments would clue you in that you're a big boy and might be able to do some work for yourself? No?
I'm fairly convinced at this point you don't even know what line of argument you are responding to.

If radiometric dating did not work in BC - the laws of physics were different, that's the part you have to demonstrate. Or just be a troll.

Do you not read threads you post in? The reason distances cannot be known for deep space (any star) is because we do not know that space itself and time itself exists the same all the way there.

I'm erasing references to this idea because until evidence is presented you are just trolling people.

So what was the mistake and correction? I just explained why distances are not known.

No you said this:

DAD - Source? Looking at one SN, for example, that was seen from earth, we see this..
"Astronomers have discovered traces of a star that went supernova about 140 years ago as viewed from Earth*, around the time of the U.S. Civil War and the publication of Charles Darwin's The Origin of Species. The expanding debris cloud, or remnant, known as G1.9+0.3, lies near the center of the Milky Way, about 25,000 light-years from Earth."
Remains of 140-Year-Old Supernova Discovered
So they say the distance is 25,000 ly away. Then they say we saw the light 140 years ago. Ha."

But at the end of the article they explain they made a mistake and that the supernova was not 140 years old but 25000 years old. So your "HA" was a mistake.

But wait, you think stuff happens in deep space and the light arrives here on Earth and just happens to give the "illusion" that physics is the same in deep space? So your idea is the Truman Show except with the solar system instead of the earth. But with no evidence.

This is my fault, I knew this was a waste of time.

Great, and there are computers there also. So? There are no computers in deep space. I kid you not.
Wait I thought you said we don't know anything about deep space? Now you are making definitive statements about deep space?


You certainly do not. You only know what time is involved from your fishbowl observation point!

ignore because of trolling

Prove it. I suggest you do not know what all is out there and what all may be required out there.

troll
Just because some event with objects of unknown size and distance happen does not mean in any way that GR dunnit. Seriously?

black holes happen only because of gravity. If you have an alternate explanation show evidence.



Foolishness since distance is required to know mass, if I recall.

For one a black hole cannot happen without a certain amount of mass. SO the lower bound mass is known. Beyond that I have already sourced ways to determine distance.

Do you really not see how small and circular your religion is? You assume that time is the same. The delay you see from the fishbowl is in our time. Get it?

Please source troll.

Wrong, since the time involved in decay is only applicable here in the fishbowl. By the way, as an aside, do prove that it is gas there.

prove the laws of physics are different.

You don't know how far the galaxy is away, or the distances in the rotations or the times! In all ways your beliefs are empty.

Already sourced, you gave no refutation except to repeat your science fiction.
 
Last edited:

joelr

Well-Known Member

Maybe in your sci-fantasy world. Ha, here is another thing you won't source and will just repeat ad-nauseam

Genesis creation narrative are myths borrowed from older myths-

"Borrowing themes from Mesopotamian mythology, but adapting them to the Israelite people's belief in one God,[2] the first major comprehensive draft of the Pentateuch (the series of five books which begins with Genesis and ends with Deuteronomy) was composed in the late 7th or the 6th century BCE (the Jahwist source) and was later expanded by other authors (the Priestly source) into a work very like Genesis as known today.

Mesopotamian mythology refers to the myths, religious texts, and other literature that comes from the region of ancient Mesopotamia in modern-day West Asia. In particular the societies of Sumer, Akkad, and Assyria, all of which existed shortly after 3000 BCE and were mostly gone by 400 CE.

Genesis creation narrative - Wikipedia

Various themes, plot elements, and characters in the Epic of Gilgamesh have counterparts in the Hebrew Bible—notably, the accounts of the Garden of Eden, the advice from Ecclesiastes, and the Genesis flood narrative.



Heh,

Noahs ark is borrowed mythology

"Andrew George submits that the Genesis flood narrative matches that in Gilgamesh so closely that "few doubt" that it derives from a Mesopotamian account.[41] What is particularly noticeable is the way the Genesis flood story follows the Gilgamesh flood tale "point by point and in the same order", even when the story permits other alternatives"

Noah's Ark - Wikipedia

Mesopotamian precursors

"
For well over a century scholars have recognised that the Bible's story of Noah's ark is based on older Mesopotamian models.[11] Because all these flood stories deal with events that allegedly happened at the dawn of history, they give the impression that the myths themselves must come from very primitive origins, but the myth of the global flood that destroys all life only begins to appear in the Old Babylonian period (20th–16th centuries BCE).[12] The reasons for this emergence of the typical Mesopotamian flood myth may have been bound up with the specific circumstances of the end of the Third Dynasty of Ur around 2004 BCE and the restoration of order by the First Dynasty of Isin.[13]

There are nine known versions of the Mesopotamian flood story, each more or less adapted from an earlier version. In the oldest version, inscribed in the Sumerian city of Nippur c.1600 BCE, the hero is King Ziusudra. This is known as the Sumerian Flood Story and probably derives from an earlier version."

The most obvious borrowing is from the Epic Of Gilamesh

Epic of Gilgamesh - Wikipedia



dying-rising savior gods pre-dating Christianity. Actually Christianity was the last savior god of the bunch.
All sourced here:
https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/13890

"Within the confines of what was then the Roman Empire, long before and during the dawn of Christianity, there were many dying-and-rising gods. And yes, they were gods—some even half-god, half-human, being of divine or magical parentage, just like Jesus (John 1:1-18; Matthew 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-35; Philippians 2:6-8 & Romans 8:3). And yes, they died. And were dead. And yes, they were then raised back to life; and lived on, even more powerful than before. Some returned in the same body they died in; some lived their second life in even more powerful and magical bodies than they died in, like Jesus did (1 Corinthians 15:35-50 & 2 Corinthians 5:1-10). Some left empty tombs or gravesites; or had corpses that were lost or vanished. Just like Jesus. Some returned to life on “the third day” after dying. Just like Jesus. All went on to live and reign in heaven (not on earth). Just like Jesus. Some even visited earth after being raised, to deliver a message to disciples or followers, before ascending into the heavens. Just like Jesus."

biblical cosmology was what I said it was:
Biblical cosmology - Wikipedia

"In the Old Testament the word shamayim represented both the sky/atmosphere, and the dwelling place of God.[31] The raqia or firmament – the visible sky – was a solid inverted bowl over the Earth, coloured blue from the heavenly ocean above it.[32] Rain, snow, wind and hail were kept in storehouses outside the raqia, which had "windows" to allow them in – the waters for Noah's flood entered when the "windows of heaven" were opened.[33] Heaven extended down to and was coterminous with (i.e. it touched) the farthest edges of the Earth (e.g. Deuteronomy 4:32);[34] humans looking up from Earth saw the floor of heaven, which they saw also as God's throne, as made of clear blue lapis-lazuli (Exodus 24:9–10), and (Ezekiel 1:26).[35] Below that was a layer of water, the source of rain, which was separated from us by an impenetrable barrier, the firmament (Genesis 1:6–8). The rain may also be stored in heavenly cisterns (Job: 38:37) or storehouses (Deut 28:12) alongside the storehouses for wind, hail and snow.[36"



Therefore you are authorized to speak of it after it arrives. No more.
troll science until sourced.

Your theories are only valid in the fishbowl, get used to it. We do not need to know the unknown. But one assumes that anything at all including light that exists in an area where time exists a certain way would need to operate accordingly there.

troll

Sure. Explain in your own words and in simple terms what those equations are based on and represent. You see, math uses little symbols and letters like "C" that represent something.

I'll ask agin, what evidence do you have that in space classical electrodynamics is different. Your attempt to not answer the question was an obvious dodge. Please try to to make just one point tha's valid? I feel like I'm beating up a child.


Good luck with that! Since you do not know what the unknown space and time out there is like. You seem to have a compulsion to invent theories based on not knowing!

Ok that's one. You just said you DON'T KNOW. There you go. You do not know. All your pretending that the laws are definitely different is pure troll juice.
Now how can we know? Well we can make observations. So far they support physics being the same through the entire universe. Is there anything special about our solar system ......no. Is it ordinary...yes.
Do we see events that require the same laws...yes.


Except they are a steaming pile of foolish nonsense! How about the black hole predicted for sn1987a? Is that still M.I.A.? Ha.

Uh, yes they found a neutron star.

You think space is a 'law of physics'? You thought time was 'a law of physics'?? Ha.

It's called "spacetime" they are connected and follow the laws of physics.

Were you not asked for two examples?

I gave examples of GR in deep space? Black holes, neutron stars. galaxy formation, galaxy clusters, pulsars, superclusters....You ask this EVERY SINGLE POST? Seriously, what is wrong with you?


Nope. I said nothing from origin science. QM is like electricity and other things that actually exist and work here. NOTHING to do with origin sciences!
Oh, I get it, you just don't know stuff. All origin models involve QM. The microwave background has irregularities because of QM. All alternate models involve QM in some way.

"One model, using loop quantum gravity, aims to explain the beginnings of the Universe through a series of Big Bounces, in which quantum fluctuations cause the Universe to expand. This procreation also predicts a cyclic model of universes, with a new universe being created after an old one is destroyed, each with different physical constants.[3] Another procreation based on M-theory and observations of the cosmic microwave background (CMB), states that the Universe is but one of many in a multiverse, and has budded off from another universe as a result of quantum fluctuations, as opposed to our Universe being all that exists."

Lol, did you think creation science involves wizards and ancient myths?


False, as explained that all depends on knowing distances.
Suns of various sizes emit distinct frequencies, wavelengths, color spectrums and depending on brightness we can tell the difference. You keep asking for science behind things but then when I GIVE THE SCIENCE you switch to "oh it doesn't matter because fishbulb..."
Which is one big trollathon. Seriously, do better.

I'm no longer responding to fantasy science unless it's sourced. Statements without points with just one word like "false" also just mean - "I don't like what you are saying but I have no actual argument".
 
Last edited:

rational experiences

Veteran Member
If you asked a male as a human who is conscious and aware the same as anyone else is.

Designed science as a non existing model...for what he first reviewed was just a memory VISION of a recorded interactive fusion/fission by UFO cause...so it was begun, physical mass and energy as physical existed, and got removed...so it owned a beginning and end......yet physical mass existed first, then what sort of argument does he own today as that scientist?

He is not living as a human or a male out in the cosmos is he?

Yet you would also claim, do you know that communicating transmitting feed back subliminal mind is made aware of communications historically because you brought back into the Earth gas mass atmosphere burning alight gases, as science the UFO?

That had historically opened its mass as it dispersed, yet then sucked up Earth owned gases and water, then gets released. So it became owner of the Earth gases inside of its UFO Sun machine body.

And you live personally and consciously inside of the same gas mass as a bio life...so you live inside of the heavenly body but the UFO history owns inside of its body the gases that you live within.

Would you not consciously be affected by that communicated history and historically be incorrect about all science reasoning.

Which today includes science owning extra male human designed feed back from nuclear power plant model about all conditions he imposes is cosmological, but he cannot really be discussing that information, for he does not personally live as a conscious human bio life in out of space?

Would you not have concluded yourselves that the forms of science transmitted radiation causes totally affect and also possess your science belief about out of space...by what forms of causes you impose historically upon a naturally held and fused God stone mass/body?

Seeing its radiation communications in natural history would be nothing like you gave it in cosmological science conversions...UFO cause?

The gases alight in our atmosphere do not travel...but the movement of a gas being removed travels back to burn nothingness...and that spirit awareness, gas is what affects your mind psyche in fake and false beliefs, actually about light.

For light is not travelling back in time....light in a gas is burning out.

And it is why argument against irrational thesis exists in conscious human expression for they are in fact irrational.
 

dad

Undefeated
Genesis creation narrative are myths borrowed from older myths-

If God and His people had a record before written records existed that means we were first.





I'll ask agin, what evidence do you have that in space classical electrodynamics is different. Your attempt to not answer the question was an obvious dodge. Please try to to make just one point tha's valid? I feel like I'm beating up a child.
Do try an remember when you spam and troll and get asked specific questions about your claims you need to address them. Stop trolling and get to it. For example you were asked to provide 2 examples of proof GR exists in deep space as we know it here.



Now how can we know? Well we can make observations.
You cannot make observations of the invisible in deep space. Time is not visible and neither is space. Stop trolling and pretending.

So far they support physics being the same through the entire universe.
Time is not physics. stop trolling.

Is there anything special about our solar system
es, of course, man and the world are here.

Uh, yes they found a neutron star.
Right, I almost forgot, their story changes so often it is hard to keep up with!!

"Using extremely sharp and sensitive images taken with the Atacama Large Millimeter/submillimeter Array (ALMA) telescope in the Atacama Desert of northern Chile, the team have found a particular patch of the dust cloud that is brighter than its surroundings, and which matches the suspected location of the neutron star."
Astronomers Spot Neutron Star That’s Been Missing for Over 30 Years

Hilarious.



It's called "spacetime" they are connected and follow the laws of physics.
In your head, yes. Now prove it is true in all the universe.

I gave examples of GR in deep space? Black holes, neutron stars. galaxy formation, galaxy clusters, pulsars, superclusters..
Utter nonsense. No wonder you couldn't give two specific examples.

Oh, I get it, you just don't know stuff. All origin models involve QM. The microwave background has irregularities because of QM. All alternate models involve QM in some way.
Your idea of the CMB involves a lot more. As I mentioned the magic inflation from speck to universe in a fraction of a second!

"One model, using loop quantum gravity, aims to explain the beginnings of the Universe through a series of Big Bounces, in which quantum fluctuations cause the Universe to expand.
They could try to use anything to explain an imaginary BB.


This procreation also predicts a cyclic model of universes, with a new universe being created after an old one is destroyed, each with different physical constants.[3]
Utter demonic fantasies.

Another procreation based on M-theory and observations of the cosmic microwave background (CMB), states that the Universe is but one of many in a multiverse, and has budded off from another universe as a result of quantum fluctuations, as opposed to our Universe being all that exists."
Same thing.



Suns of various sizes emit distinct frequencies, wavelengths, color spectrums and depending on brightness we can tell the difference.
Using the word sun has no meaning when no sizes or distances are known.
 

dad

Undefeated
Then you are wrong. Scripture is not history. It doesn't match what archeology has found at all. And it's not even the full record of the Israelite gods:
You are wrong.


Of course if you look at the vast number of other cultures who occupies Israel exactly ZERO of them verify Yahweh as real. Just like everyone else each culture had their own set of myths and none of them were real.
I guess God chose a people that would be able to deal with truth.


Give a specific example. Use your words. In the case of a black hole just seeing that black holes exist is confirmation of relativity. Not only that they actually match the predicted visual complete with a type of gravitational lensing and hawking radiation.
Show us how you know what gravity is working in objects of unknown mass size and distance!? Or do you just see bent light and run fishbowl based math on it!? Ha.

First of all if something was off you need to source it to actually make a point. It was the irregularities that were predicted because they would match the quantum fluxuations that would occur if the universe was compressed to a subatomic size:
You could say a turtle spit out the universe and it was compressed in it's belly. You could invent any number of foolish scenarios to explain creation. And science does!

Inflation is one model and cosmology is still learning new things every year.
No clue then in reality and there are many fables. OK.


There are some issues with inflation but they are also countered by other arguments cosmologists make. If you have a line of reasoning against inflation you have to actually present that argument. I know you don't do that sort of thing but I'm not really writing this for you.


What matters is that it can't be supported. Believe what you like.


"The age of the universe as estimated from the Hubble expansion and the CMB is now in good agreement with other estimates using the ages of the oldest stars, both as measured by applying the theory of stellar evolution to globular clusters and through radiometric dating of individual Population II stars"
Perley, Daniel (21 February 2005). "Determination of the Universe's Age, to". Berkeley, CA: Department of Astronomy, University of California, Berkeley. Archived from the original on 11 September 2006. Retrieved 11 December 2019.
Good estimation when dealing in billions of imaginary years means nothing. Hubble assumed that the shifted light out there was a result of the type of forces and realities we see affect light in the fishbowl. Period. End of story. Applying the lying theory of stellar evolution to anything is insanity. Bad religion gone wild.
Take you through what procedure?
You said this
"Radiometric dating is a method to determine the distance of planets."

So, show us how exactly.


DAD - Source? Looking at one SN, for example, that was seen from earth, we see this..
"Astronomers have discovered traces of a star that went supernova about 140 years ago as viewed from Earth*, around the time of the U.S. Civil War and the publication of Charles Darwin's The Origin of Species. The expanding debris cloud, or remnant, known as G1.9+0.3, lies near the center of the Milky Way, about 25,000 light-years from Earth."
Remains of 140-Year-Old Supernova Discovered
So they say the distance is 25,000 ly away. Then they say we saw the light 140 years ago. Ha."

But at the end of the article they explain they made a mistake and that the supernova was not 140 years old but 25000 years old. So your "HA" was a mistake.
I had thought they meant that a SN seen 140 years ago is from a star they think is 25,000 ly away. Not sure about a mistake there?

But wait, you think stuff happens in deep space and the light arrives here on Earth and just happens to give the "illusion" that physics is the same in deep space?
I have said the if time is different (not laws) we could not determines distances or sizes of objects in far space. Not sure why you keep harping on laws? Trolling?

Wait I thought you said we don't know anything about deep space? Now you are making definitive statements about deep space?
We know how far man has been and therefore the inventions of man. What we do not know is the nature of space and the nature of time out there. Focus.

black holes happen only because of gravity.
You know this...how? Ha.


For one a black hole cannot happen without a certain amount of mass.
Not if it existed according to and because of your theories! So?
prove the laws of physics are different.
Stop trolling. Time is not a law of physics.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Ever notice that when certain people are handed the facts they respond with comments like "fake news" and/or "false" while not producing one shred of evidence to show how these are supposedly false? Thank God I left that kind of church after I grew up in back in the late 1960's at the age in my mid-20's because of this kind of anti-science and anti-intellectual bent. One would think that all churches would teach enlightenment, not blindness, but such is clearly not the case.

Thank God there are many denominations that do not teach that science and doing actual research is a threat to Christianity.
 

dad

Undefeated
Ever notice that when certain people are handed the facts they respond with comments like "fake news" and/or "false" while not producing one shred of evidence to show how these are supposedly false? Thank God I left that kind of church after I grew up in back in the late 1960's at the age in my mid-20's because of this kind of anti-science and anti-intellectual bent. One would think that all churches would teach enlightenment, not blindness, but such is clearly not the case.

Thank God there are many denominations that do not teach that science and doing actual research is a threat to Christianity.
Ever notice that when lies are embraced by some people that it is a waste of time telling them what is what?
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
You are wrong.
Nope archeology does not support the OT.
Archeology of the Hebrew Bible

"William Dever, Professor Emeritus at the University of Arizona, -
From the beginnings of what we call biblical archeology, perhaps 150 years ago, scholars, mostly western scholars, have attempted to use archeological data to prove the Bible. And for a long time it was thought to work. [William Foxwell] Albright, the great father of our discipline, often spoke of the "archeological revolution." Well, the revolution has come but not in the way that Albright thought. The truth of the matter today is that archeology raises more questions about the historicity of the Hebrew Bible and even the New Testament than it provides answers, and that's very disturbing to some people

One of the first efforts of biblical archeology in the last century was to prove the historicity of the patriarchs, to locate them in a particular period in the archeological history. Today I think most archeologists would argue that there is no direct archeological proof that Abraham, for instance, ever lived.

I guess God chose a people that would be able to deal with truth.


Then put forth evidence that isn't debunked as mythology by scholarship.


Show us how you know what gravity is working in objects of unknown mass size and distance!? Or do you just see bent light and run fishbowl based math on it!? Ha.

We do not just see bent light, we see black holes and all sorts of astronomical events that gravity makes predictions about and those predictions are accurate. Our best evidence shows it's the same laws of physics we have here.

You could say a turtle spit out the universe and it was compressed in it's belly. You could invent any number of foolish scenarios to explain creation. And science does!

Exactly, you could say a turtle did that! And that's exactly what you are doing! HA HA But science doesn't do that, it creates models and predictions and goes with whatever provides the best evidence.

No clue then in reality and there are many fables. OK.

Yes except these "fables" have evidence. When evidence supports something else then science will explore that evidence.



What matters is that it can't be supported. Believe what you like.
I don't "believe" in inflation. It's a model that has some reasons to think it's true and some to think it's wrong. That's what science does, it investigates and looks for new evidence, models, ideas and such.
Inflation might be completely wrong. But unlike turtles and your idea it has evidence.


Good estimation
when dealing in billions of imaginary years means nothing. Hubble assumed that the shifted light out there was a result of the type of forces and realities we see affect light in the fishbowl. Period. End of story. Applying the lying theory of stellar evolution to anything is insanity. Bad religion gone wild.

"Fishbowl" = turtles. Provide evidence.

You said this
"Radiometric dating is a method to determine the distance of planets."

So, show us how exactly.

You are being disingenuous and dishonest in this request. You know you could Wiki Radiometric dating yourself.
But no matter how I explain it you will say it's wrong because "turtles". You are just looking for ways to continue trolling.


I had thought they meant that a SN seen 140 years ago is from a star they think is 25,000 ly away. Not sure about a mistake there?
It says right in the article "Remains of 140-Year-Old Supernova Discovered"

You then said - "So they say the distance is 25,000 ly away. Then they say we saw the light 140 years ago. Ha." You said "HA" because if the supernova was 140 years old and 25000 light years away that cannot make sense. So you said "HA". Because that cannot make sense.

But..................at the end of the article they corrected the mistake and said the supernova was over 25000 years old. Is it really this hard to admit you made a mistake? This actually explains a lot.

I have said the if time is different (not laws) we could not determines distances or sizes of objects in far space. Not sure why you keep harping on laws? Trolling?

We know how far man has been and therefore the inventions of man. What we do not know is the nature of space and the nature of time out there. Focus.

RIght and why would the nature of spacetime that we have locally be different beyond the solar system? Especially when we can see that everything is operating the same. OH wait, I KNOW, I KNOW!!!!....because the light coming to us is actually coming from a completely different set of physical laws ...AND the light just happens to fool us and make it look like the laws are the same!!

DO I have evidence? No of course not, this idea is the same as turtles. So am I just saying that it's a possibility? NO!!!!!! I KNOW EVERYTHING.


You know this...how? Ha.

Maybe a new force will be discovered that could produce a black hole, who knows what science will discover? Meanwhile trolls will discover many other amazing facts about the universe. And each time they will be 100% certain they are always correct. Without any help from any science!

Stop trolling. Time is not a law of physics.

In modern physics time is 1 dimension of spacetime. It slows from acceleration and gravity and these effects have been demonstrated. So time follows the laws of physics.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
If God and His people had a record before written records existed that means we were first.

And outside of your make-believe world and into the actual world the Israelites emerged from the Canaanites around 9BC. The Canaanites gods were headed by El and Asherah. Yahweh was a minor storm god.
Prior to that was Egypt. Your myths were not remotely the first.

He does not appear to have been a Canaanite god, although the Israelites were originally Canaanites.
[23][24][Notes 3] The current scholarly consensus is that Yahweh was originally a "divine warrior from the southern region associated with Seir, Edom, Paran and Teman".



"From the 9th into the 6th centuries BCE the Yahwistic religion separated itself from its Canaanite heritage as Yahweh became the main god of the Kingdom of Israel (Samaria) and of Judah,[11] and over time the royal court and Temple in Jerusalem promoted Yahweh as the god of the entire cosmos, possessing all the positive qualities previously attributed to the other gods and goddesses.[12][13] By the end of the Babylonian captivity (6th century BCE), the very existence of foreign gods was denied, and Yahweh was proclaimed as the creator of the cosmos and the one true God of all the world.["

Yahweh - Wikipedia

So Yahweh was "promoted" to possess all the attributes of the other previous gods. Huh, sounds like myth writing.


Do try an remember when you spam and troll and get asked specific questions about your claims you need to address them. Stop trolling and get to it. For example you were asked to provide 2 examples of proof GR exists in deep space as we know it here.
HA, did I not say this was one big " I know you are but what am I". And here you go copying my words.
GR is the reason planets orbit suns. GR is the reason sun form. GR is the reason asteroids come from deep space and orbit our sun.
Planets, suns and orbits are all things we see across the universe.


You cannot make observations of the invisible in deep space. Time is not visible and neither is space. Stop trolling and pretending.

You need to be more precise if you want a response. YOu already know we see light from deep space. Your "turtles" idea has no impact here until you show evidence.

Time is not physics. stop trolling.

Spacetime is a huge part of modern physics. Special relativity and Minkowski's work on relativity have shown time is 1 of a 4 dimensional spacetime.

es, of course, man and the world are here.

We are here. This provides zero evidence that our solar system operates with different laws of physics than any other. In fact we can clearly see we are one of billions all operating under the universal laws.

Right, I almost forgot, their story changes so often it is hard to keep up with!!

Using extremely sharp and sensitive images taken with the Atacama Large Millimeter/submillimeter Array (ALMA) telescope in the Atacama Desert of northern Chile, the team have found a particular patch of the dust cloud that is brighter than its surroundings, and which matches the suspected location of the neutron star."
Astronomers Spot Neutron Star That’s Been Missing for Over 30 Years

Hilarious.[/QUOTE]

I know right? So funny. Science with their learning new stuff all the time? WTF? What a bunch of weirdos huh!
HEY SCIENCE.......did you improve on your theories today? HA! Good burn, am I right?

HEY SCIENCE.........did you change your story today??? Right though? Damn son..I mean, no germs, germs...hey science MAKE UP YOUR MIND!

C'mon, we don't see Yahweh changing his mind. Well, Islam. And Mormonism.




In your head, yes. Now prove it is true in all the universe.

Because we see gravity across the universe. I know you believe this can't possible be the same gravity but is rather necromancy or turtles but until you provide evidence you are still a troll.


Utter nonsense. No wonder you couldn't give two specific examples.
Black holes, neutron stars. galaxy formation, galaxy clusters, pulsars, superclusters are all examples of GR operating in space just as it does here.

Your idea of the CMB involves a lot more. As I mentioned the magic inflation from speck to universe in a fraction of a second!

Inflation might be wrong? Yep.


They could try to use anything to explain an imaginary BB
.

Yes if the model has predictive power and evidence it could be worth exploring. Like most science deniers I'm sure you are ok with modern advances in medicine like MRI, Xrays and all sorts of computer technology. Yet when the scientific method is applied to cosmology you get all worked up because your LOTR fantasy book might be threatened.
Oh and geology, yeah they are all wrong. Geotechnical engineering and all the advances and technology from the field, they are cool. Anything that counters an archaic obvious mythology however that can't be correct.

Utter demonic fantasies.

Demons are from myths like LOTR but some models in cosmology might be fantasy. They have people called scientists who are working on it. Unfortunately they can't just cast a spell and have scientific knowledge.

Same thing.
So you are the church lady, waving your fist at cosmological theories and yelling "Satan!"

Ok, whatever works.



Using the word sun has no meaning when no sizes or distances are known.

there are limits to sizes suns can be and an entire science of understanding the composition, size, and so on of suns. Obviously your turtles idea doesn't allow you to accept information from the EM spectrum that comes from beyond the solar system.
The church lady doesn't accept that information either because it's from the devil.

Ok?
Are there any other lines of debate you want to fail at?
 
Last edited:
Top