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How do you believe the world will end?

cataway

Well-Known Member
1 Thessalonians 4:16 New International Version (NIV)
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

1 Corinthians 15:52 New International Version (NIV)
in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

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The Bible specifies the order of the Lord Jesus Christ coming.
There are 7 angels with the trumpets and for each sound of the trumpet is an event that we will see on earth
Revelation 8:2-13; 9 - If these happens on our life time.
These events as it happens, when the angels sound their trumpets are catastrophic as the Bible describes.
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First trumpet : a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up
Second trumpet: a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed
Third trumpet: a third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter
Fourth trumpet: a third of the day was without light, and also a third of the night
Fifth trumpet: pestilence like plague inflicting suffering on the damned for 5 months, Satan is imprisoned
Sixth trumpet: 1/3 of mankind killed in a war

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The last trumpet: the Lord Jesus Christ returns, the people who will enjoy the first resurrection and those alive in Christ, will join him for a thousand years in the Holy City

After a thousand years, Satan is released and then prepares a huge army.
The Holy City returns and surrounded by Satan and his army.
Fire from heaven engulfs them and they are routed.

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Satan is defeated and thrown to the lake of fire [second death].
The earth and the sky will disappear
The rest of the dead will be resurrected [second resurrection]
The books are opened and each are judged accordingly
Death and the false prophet will be thrown in the lake of fire
and the people whose names are not found in the book of life.
They will be there forever and ever.

Meanwhile...

new-heaven-and-new-earth.jpg


There will be a new heaven and a new earth for the chosen to enjoy.
Everything in the past will not be remembered.
God would answer the prayers of his chosen even before they asked it.
Everything is made new.
you say Jesus is coming , but to where ? what spot on earth is he coming to ? its all going to happen all at once . could be there is some thing off in your thinking
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
you say Jesus is coming , but to where ? what spot on earth is he coming to ? its all going to happen all at once . could be there is some thing off in your thinking

I do not say but I have quoted from the Bible.
The Bible has been around long enough before you and I were born.
Now, allow me to quote again from the book and once again it is not from my thinking.
You should have taken to account the bible references I have disclosed.

The following quotes does not in anyway refer to you [because you are lacking] so you don't have to worry about this.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 New International Version (NIV)
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

images


When the Lord Jesus Christ comes, he won't land and wait
He won't visit a burger store and patiently wait there for a happy meal
while people who are going to be saved would come meet him.
He will be up in the air, and the people who will be saved will be caught up together in the clouds.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
You mean physics? I speculate that will remain the same, but this is just an opinion.


It seems to me you were talking of a universal reality change other than mere physics. You opened the cookie jar, now show me the cookies.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
The world is going to end one day, that’s for sure. In a few million years it will be consumed by our sun,

The first and literal question is the world as a planet ending because the Sun expands as it runs out of fuel and consumes the Earth. That's a LONG way off.

From what I have heard (years ago not recently) it will be more like a billion or more years before the sun does that. Maybe there is more current information?

As a Christian, this is my understanding:​
  1. Jesus Christ returns to Earth from Heaven​
  2. Jesus Christ raptures the elect, who go up to heaven​
  3. A period of great tribulation occurs on Earth​
  4. Jesus Christ returns to Earth from Heaven (again)​
  5. Jesus Christ rules over Earth for a whole millennium​
  6. Everyone alive on Earth and who were dead before the rapture occurred are judged and given an appropriate after-life​
  7. Planet Earth is discontinued​
That is my understanding of Christian eschatology, and I know that within Christianity there are many different views - which I would be interested to hear - But also from people of other faiths…

(and I believe that stage 1 is imminent)​
What I'd like is that within 50 years 'Christian' to include 7th Day Adventists, JW's, LDS, all Church of Christ, Brethren, Swedenborgian, various Catholics, various Unitarians, various others never before considered acceptable by one another or the mainstream. All I hope will recognize one another 100%. All will be one, and church will seem strange to people born before 2000. All will go to church together, and it will be a surreal experience for many older people but not a bad one. From what I have studied this is all plausible. The strange fortune is that almost nobody has scriptural standing as we think of scriptural standing today. There is little to brag about.

Now lets suppose as you propose that before unity comes there is an appearance of Jesus. In that case he must be identified by what he teaches and if legitimate he won't be teaching us to do anything other than what our consciences have compelled us to do all along. We've had 2000 years without Jesus walking the Earth, and so far he wants us to be his heart, hands and feet. What about that would change just because of him lighting upon the ground? In that case I'd say he'd shown up early, and I'd consider it suspect.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Blue berries.

The Bible specifies the order of the Lord Jesus Christ coming.
There are 7 angels with the trumpets and for each sound of the trumpet is an event that we will see on earth
Revelation 8:2-13; 9 - If these happens on our life time.
These events as it happens, when the angels sound their trumpets are catastrophic as the Bible describes.

First trumpet : a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up
(Deforestation)
Second trumpet: a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed
(Water pollution)
Third trumpet: a third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter
(Water pollution)
Fourth trumpet: a third of the day was without light, and also a third of the night
(Smog)
-> Fifth trumpet: pestilence like plague inflicting suffering on the damned for 5 months, Satan is imprisoned
(Coronavirus. Interestingly, both the word Satan and the word damned have double meaning Satan means "adversary/accuser", not only with regard to God though. Damned can mean unrighteous or it can mean those who are accused. Note: this may not actually be the plague in question, but these events are parallel enough that this is plausible)
1. that is to say, the prophecy may mean those are unrighteous are afflicted with the plague, while their "adversary" are imprisoned. This appears to be happening in "blue" states like Virginia, there's a wide divide between those suffering from disease in the big polluting cities, and those who are locked up simply for having an unjust governor.
2. The "damned" can also mean those who are unable to see God's grace properly and are "damned" by being accused. As an example, we have "white guilt", people who may otherwise be decent but for their tendency to constantly virtue signal/self-accuse. As for the Satan here, we wouldn't be talking about Satan as source of evil (see below) but Satan as an accuser.
3. What it doesn't seem to be happening is evil being locked up while the unrighteous are punished by disease. Why? Because immediately following this, we have a war. If evil is imprisoned, wouldn't there be peace? So what happens when an accuser no longer exists? Those who are evil are assured of their goodness, even as violence visits on those who aren't trying to hurt anyone (both the Christians who refuse to coddle such groups and people who kneel in apology)


Sixth trumpet: 1/3 of mankind killed in a war
(I think we're heading into here between BLM, Antifa, Nazis, Communists, and other groups that hate Christ)

The last trumpet: the Lord Jesus Christ returns, the people who will enjoy the first resurrection and those alive in Christ, will join him for a thousand years in the Holy City
(This sounds nice. But said people are likely be among those killed in said war. The Earth is likely left in an apocalyptic wreck for a thousand years, hence no war. There are likely no Christians proper after this, though there will always be those who understand things like decency and kindness. Probably)

After a thousand years, Satan is released and then prepares a huge army.
(In this case, Satan refers to actual Satan. People trying to wipe out people who live on Earth)
The Holy City returns and surrounded by Satan and his army.
(i.e. "They survived this thing, so they're oppressors. Attack them!")
Fire from heaven engulfs them and they are routed.
(Force fields and such)

Satan is defeated and thrown to the lake of fire [second death].
The earth and the sky will disappear
The rest of the dead will be resurrected [second resurrection]
The books are opened and each are judged accordingly
Death and the false prophet will be thrown in the lake of fire
(This false prophet is obviously me, because I suck at analyzing prophecies)
and the people whose names are not found in the book of life.
They will be there forever and ever.
(What if you changed your name? I mean, I used to be a Thomas, now I'm Samantha)

Meanwhile...

There will be a new heaven and a new earth for the chosen to enjoy.
Everything in the past will not be remembered.
God would answer the prayers of his chosen even before they asked it.
Everything is made new.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The world is going to end one day, that’s for sure. In a few million years it will be consumed by our sun, which is going to expand and engulf the innermost planets of the solar system. And a big asteroid may crash into it, thus snuffing out all but the most basic and hardy life-forms…​
  1. Planet Earth is discontinued​
Some people I think when they hear 'the world is going to end one day' they think that means Earth will end one day.

Because the Bible teaches that the ' Earth abides forever ' at Ecclesiastes 1:4 B then it is No discontinuing of planet Earth but the discontinuing of the world of wickedness - Psalms 92:7
Our God given Earth is stable according to 1 Chronicles 16:30. - Psalms 115:16.
God who laid the foundations of Earth to Not be removed forever as per Psalms 104:5, 35.
That Earth can Not be moved - Psalms 93. It is established and Not be moved - Psalms 93:1.
So, as Isaiah 45:18 wrote that God created the Earth to be inhabited.
Inhabited with humble meek people who will inherit the Earth - Psalms 37:9-11,29; Psalms 76:9.

Sure, if it were Not for God's promise then yes could be destroyed, but that is Not God's purpose.
God's promise to father Abraham is that ALL families of Earth will be blessed, and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed. Blessed with the benefit of ' healing ' for earth's nations.
'Healing ' as described at Revelation 22:2.
This is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Not come for a temporary Earth, but a permanent Earth as described at Isaiah 35th chapter.
 
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MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Blue berries.

Anyways, that is in the 2,000 year old prophecies written in the book of revelations.
As the book say, there are events preceding Christ's return.
They were symbolically described as the seven trumpets

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Are we gonna see it?
I really don't know.

It is on the last trumpet when Jesus Christ would return to save his chosen ones.

Ephesians 5:23 New International Version (NIV)
For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.

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So when Jesus Christ comes he won't be saving people at random.
He will be saving his body - his church.
Is it the Catholic church? Lutheran church? Baptist church? Mormon church? Episcopalian church?
What is the name of this church? Is it -

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It is not a man made church.
It is the Church of Christ found and named in the Bible.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
you say Jesus is coming , but to where ? what spot on earth is he coming to ? its all going to happen all at once . could be there is some thing off in your thinking

What I find will happen is first the international declaring about God's kingdom (Daniel 2:44) will be ( and is ) at its ' final phase ' - Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.
Then, there will be the ' final signal ' as found at 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3.
When the powers that be will be saying, " Peace and Security...." that will be the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9.
Then, Jesus, as King of God's Kingdom, will take action.
I find it doesn't have to be a specific ' where ' or a specific ' spot ' .
The executional words from Jesus' mouth will rid the whole Earth of wickedness - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16; Jeremiah 25:31-33.
'Where' includes that wars will stop Earth wide - Psalms 46:9
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
I do not say but I have quoted from the Bible.
The Bible has been around long enough before you and I were born.
Now, allow me to quote again from the book and once again it is not from my thinking.
You should have taken to account the bible references I have disclosed.

The following quotes does not in anyway refer to you [because you are lacking] so you don't have to worry about this.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 New International Version (NIV)
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

images


When the Lord Jesus Christ comes, he won't land and wait
He won't visit a burger store and patiently wait there for a happy meal
while people who are going to be saved would come meet him.
He will be up in the air, and the people who will be saved will be caught up together in the clouds.
I do not say but I have quoted from the Bible.
The Bible has been around long enough before you and I were born.
Now, allow me to quote again from the book and once again it is not from my thinking.
You should have taken to account the bible references I have disclosed.

The following quotes does not in anyway refer to you [because you are lacking] so you don't have to worry about this.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 New International Version (NIV)
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

images


When the Lord Jesus Christ comes, he won't land and wait
He won't visit a burger store and patiently wait there for a happy meal
while people who are going to be saved would come meet him.
He will be up in the air, and the people who will be saved will be caught up together in the clouds.
Ah but then who gets to stay on the earth
 
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MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Ah but then who gets to stay on the earth

Again, I will quote from the Bible and I will not give my opinion.

Matthew 24:30-31 New International Version (NIV)
“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

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Revelation 1:7 New International Version (NIV)
“Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen.

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Why do you think all people of the world will mourn when they see Jesus Christ coming down from the clouds?
These people are filled with grief and sorrow.

Why?
Because they will be left behind.
They are the ones who will stay on earth.
But it would be a nasty place to be in.

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Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Anyways, that is in the 2,000 year old prophecies written in the book of revelations.
As the book say, there are events preceding Christ's return.
They were symbolically described as the seven trumpets

So when Jesus Christ comes he won't be saving people at random.
He will be saving his body - his church.
Is it the Catholic church? Lutheran church? Baptist church? Mormon church? Episcopalian church?
What is the name of this church? Is it -

View attachment 40900View attachment 40901View attachment 40902View attachment 40903View attachment 40904View attachment 40905

It is not a man made church.
It is the Church of Christ found and named in the Bible.

Actually they're seven trumpet and seven seals, then seven plagues.

7 Seals, 7 Trumpets, 7 Plagues

First, the seals (four of which are the horsemen of the apocalypse, then one for the souls of martyrs, then an earthquake followed by the sun darkening and the moon turning to blood and the stars falling, and the seventh seal is silence)

There's an interesting explanation for this silence. You see, such a silence is kept outside the Temple when burning at the altar. So here is this parallel offertory to God before the big ceremony. The seven seals sets in motion the seven trumpets sounding.

These are basically trials. Do you get involved in a war that kills 1/3 of the world, or do you legit try to not have people kill each other? How do you handle a plague that afflicts some and imprisons others? And how do we be good stewards of the Earth?
The thing is, many people react with hostility or indifference, seeing this as something that will probably happen later... no, treat it as if it in happening in your lifetime. Fear God, not the physical world. Or something. The point is, aim to do the right thing during these trials. Do not become involved in vengeance or violence or greed, or other corruption.

Here's the important thing to remember. God's grace is poured out still to believers. Crops still grow, good fortune prevails, and people are able to avoid some of these plagues. But this fortune is also a source of jealousy. You can tell you are not good, if you fight others or try to prevent people from obtaining what they need.

Here's another thing to remember. The church is not a building. The church is the people. Ecclesia means assembly. So what are we seeing attacked most right now? The right to assemble in worship. The gathering of the religious. Stay apart, they say. Don't let people see your faces.

1006230261501452288
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
In around 5 billion years the sun will go red giant and render the inner solar system uninhibitable. Whether it pushes the inner planets outward or consumes them is a moot point.
By then, we might have developed the technology to drag the Earth out to the orbit of Neptune or something like that.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Science said God O is pi first. Said they would use a human science imposed calculation to remove by review the WORD of God, which to the everyday human means occult science knew that they were removing the body of God the Earth One owner of energy one by one as a formula.

And said WORD plus the L is a loss O of the natural light gas mass in pi ownership.

Taught myself that relativity as consciousness....O pi exists as a held constant signal of God the Earth O stone solid body mass owning the presence heavenly gas spirits.

The spirit of God the stone hence moved Immaculately on the face of the great deep of space, burning gas light/cooled gases kept the balance of God O pi on the face with water evaporation owning the review.

L equated to when burning gases in light began to remove O pi from existing...so he knew it was gases burning that owned that review...to sacrifice and remove the cold spirit whole body O pi.

Called scientific awareness and to be self spiritually aware and then try to copy what natural owned and then attacked natural. How it was taught that science in the occult removed by the WORD evaluations the L = WORLD.

Hence the world ends everyday by science forcing it to end. For space the Holy womb of our Nature, the spirit gases kept it cold and presence/constant.

So then non science occult males said our Mother spatial womb is Holy, do not change it....occultists claimed that they will do whatever they want.

O GOD is a cold stone spatially zero owner of cold gas to own presence.

In its owned past it was hot spirit gases....the spirits that fell into creation and became creation.

Science gradually has been forcing God the Earth to become smaller and smaller by removing its physical mass...so they change all the LAWS of force upon our planet in the great deep and learnt that lesson...less of the son a long time ago.....so we would think. But he has not yet learnt...the reason I know, for I hear his male science occult AI feed back claiming I am just learning.

So when does science tell science that science is wrong....it did already before it was ignored and did it anyway. Why science is right to tell science that it is wrong...for only a scientist can tell his own self that he is wrong, yet science as a practice was always wrong.

Then try to cause a male cult group to give up on their inventive reasoning that says.....but my design and reactions work. Reasoning, because the Planet itself once owned that reaction, why it works. And you tried to copy the SUN UFO metal as a fake machine.

Hence is the SUN is first the cold metal fake machine....and then you copy it and heat up the metal fusion of Earth with your cold machine, then the Sun proves to you that it was never any machine. Why you were told to never believe in the power of the occult/UFO.

If science today modelled a machine on a non physical presence of metal mass and designed a model as if they were building a UFO then you already own the relative science advice. Stephen Hawking already told you.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Also, let's clear up something.


God is not on our oue side or our enemies.

I've lived in a household where my dad and mom constantly fight and pout over stuff or storm off. It's important to see this like a child watching their parents feud feels. They really don't care who is right, they want the two to get along.

The thing that is actually wrong is trying to hurt others or mess with them. This is evil, not respecting that other people live in here with you, deciding you're right, and the other person can't even be listened to. If you read the Revelation, it never ever says that the sin here is "having a different religion". It says that there's an army that makes war against the people of God.

Think of this as a concert, where the band has fans that are Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. But some zealous type decides Hindus are no good and attacks the crowd. These are the people of God, as they love each other. This man is not among them.

I think the apocalypse is based on a mix of several religions (complete with the Buddha coming again as Miroku), but the key point is those who are trying to make war against religion itself. And those who insist on a certain way. This isn't even Christianity vs other religions (not even atheists, unless they are strongly against religion). It's theism (of all sorts) vs anti-theism.
 
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rational experiences

Veteran Member
A spiritual human says O God the stone planet is Holy, it is existing in its own womb body and said cold space was that womb.

Spiritual humans infer to information as naturally aware, for natural existence and life continuance as a basis of the higher form of conscious ability. To be self aware, self taught, and idealise self survival.

Science information is only meant to support that relative advice to say, yes natural humans claiming God the Earth is a holy entity for life survival is real.

Now if you ask why did humans have to own an argument about life survival on their owned planet? Nature with human life supported?

Because science the occult became a human group chosen practice against life surviving and today want to claim some form of intelligent sanity is involved in that status....when the spiritual humanity always proved them wrong.

What all the fighting on Earth of brother against brother began from.....scientific practice and cause and effect on life due to that practice.....as an actual human teaching to their own human self.

Science owns in its own status an argument of scientist self a non religious human blaming occult religious science males as being the only wrong human. Religious non science spiritual humans say you are all wrong...and natural humans were the only correct human and we applied a self teaching model that involved self control, conscious self identification and the healing of as a human model of practice and dedication to self life living conditions in its highest form.

Science today is not somehow of higher intellect just because it does not personally practice non science conditions. It actually is anti humans existing at all....so you do not own the highest human life expression as you claim.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Now, allow me to quote again from the book and once again it is not from my thinking.
You should have taken to account the bible references I have disclosed.

The following quotes does not in anyway refer to you [because you are lacking] so you don't have to worry about this.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 New International Version (NIV)
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

What does that passage say in context?
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17....NIV
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

First of all Paul is speaking about those who have died.....those who "sleep in death". If they are 'asleep in death', how do they accompany Jesus when he returns?

When it says..."For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first."...who are these ones who will "rise first"? Are they the same as the ones who were sleeping in death?

Then "after that" it says that those who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them...to meet the Lord in the air", thereafter to "always be with the Lord".

We have a different take on those verses....

First of all, we believe that all who have died have all gone to the same place...."sheol" which to the ancient Jews was simply the place of the dead...the common grave...a place where we all go to "sleep" in an unconscious state. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; 10)

The 'coming' of the Lord, we believe is in two phases. When Jesus told his apostles that this "age" (system of things under the devil's rulership) would conclude in Matthew 24:3-14, he did not speak of his "coming" but of his presence. (parousia) If someone is "present", when did they arrive? Its a very different thing to say "I'm coming" than "I'm present". We may not always know when someone who is "present", arrived, but we know that he must have, even if we didn't see them come in.

Daniel saw in vision the coronation of the "son of man" in heaven, being given power and authority as King and to begin his reign. (Daniel 7:13-14) Since Daniel's prophesies pertain to the "time of the end", this is when Christ was to return. These last days were to be identified by a "sign" that would alert his disciples that his rulership had begun. If Christ's coming was a spectacular physical event, then what need would there be of a sign to indicate that it was taking place?

We see 1914 as the beginning of the last days of this world when those features of the sign would be seen in all the world, but Jesus said that "the end is not yet".....these things would continue right up until Christ's "manifestation"...something very visible at the end of those days. So there are two phases of Jesus return.....one indicated by a clear sign, and the other not needing one...since "every eye will see him". This cannot be with physical eyes because there is no way for all humanity to see the same event at the same time.....however Christ is manifested, all on earth living will know what is happening and will "beat themselves in grief" because they made the wrong choices.

If Jesus began to resurrect his 'chosen ones' when he was first installed as King at the beginning of the last days, then these one will come with him at the end....and those still alive on earth when that time comes, will not need to sleep in death at all, but will experience an instantaneous transformation.

That is how we make sense of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Actually they're seven trumpet and seven seals, then seven plagues.

Correct. The 7 seals were fulfilled.
But for now its the 7 trumpets that I have discussed.
The 7 bowls of wrath are for those who are left behind.

Here's another thing to remember. The church is not a building. The church is the people.

Church is people like ....

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That is why when people ask me what my religion is
I am a Church of Christ.
They are the Church of Christ
We are the Church of Christ

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ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
By then, we might have developed the technology to drag the Earth out to the orbit of Neptune or something like that.


Assuming life survives that long and some of it evolves the Intelligence to create such a feersum endgjinn (iain m banks)

As i understand it, entropy only provides the conditions for life for a relatively short period. I am not sure if (bits of) the universe will be conducive for life by then.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
First of all Paul is speaking about those who have died.....those who "sleep in death". If they are 'asleep in death', how do they accompany Jesus when he returns?

It would be the same as when Jesus woke up Lazarus.

John 11:1-15 New International Version (NIV)
Now a man named Lazarus was sick. He was from Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha. (This Mary, whose brother Lazarus now lay sick, was the same one who poured perfume on the Lord and wiped his feet with her hair.) So the sisters sent word to Jesus, “Lord, the one you love is sick.”

When he heard this, Jesus said, “This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God’s glory so that God’s Son may be glorified through it.” Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus. So when he heard that Lazarus was sick, he stayed where he was two more days, and then he said to his disciples, “Let us go back to Judea.”

“But Rabbi,” they said, “a short while ago the Jews there tried to stone you, and yet you are going back?”

Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours of daylight? Anyone who walks in the daytime will not stumble, for they see by this world’s light. It is when a person walks at night that they stumble, for they have no light.”

After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.”

His disciples replied, “Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better.” Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.

So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead, and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.”

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When it says..."For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first."...who are these ones who will "rise first"? Are they the same as the ones who were sleeping in death?

According to the Bible
...and the dead in Christ will rise first."

What does being IN CHRIST mean?

Romans 12:5 New International Version (NIV)
so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.

According to Paul, those who are in Christ form one body. What is this body?

Colossians 1:18 New International Version (NIV)
And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

Who is the head of the body? Who is this beginning and firstborn from among the dead?

Ephesians 5:23 New International Version (NIV)
For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.

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Those who are dead in Christ are members of the Church of Christ.
So people who were baptized in this Church are the ones who will be raised first when Christ returns - dead or alive. They are not judged. They passed from death to life. Jesus Christ was the ransom for their sins.

Romans 8:1 New International Version (NIV)
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,


Revelation 20:6 New International Version (NIV)
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

People not belonging to his Church will also be raised but that would be on the second resurrection.
Who are these people?
They maybe Pagans, Catholics, Atheists, Muslims, Hindus, Irreligious, Protestants, Buddhists and so on and so forth.

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That is when the books will be opened. The books of works and the books of life.
In order for an individual to be saved, his name must be written in the Book of Life.
It would be really really bad if not.

Revelation 20:12-15 New International Version (NIV)
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

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Daniel saw in vision the coronation of the "son of man" in heaven, being given power and authority as King and to begin his reign. (Daniel 7:13-14) Since Daniel's prophesies pertain to the "time of the end", this is when Christ was to return. These last days were to be identified by a "sign" that would alert his disciples that his rulership had begun. If Christ's coming was a spectacular physical event, then what need would there be of a sign to indicate that it was taking place?

Daniel indeed saw it.
But Jesus said these in:

Matthew 28:18 New International Version (NIV)
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Luke 4:6 New International Version (NIV)
And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to.

So the spectacular physical event or the sign is no longer needed - Jesus has it.


We see 1914 as the beginning of the last days of this world when those features of the sign would be seen in all the world, but Jesus said that "the end is not yet"

Yes, I agree with you that in 1914 marked the beginning of the last days - or the ends of the earth.

These were taken from jw.org website: https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/bible-teach/are-we-living-in-the-last-days/

MAJOR DEVELOPMENTS OF THE LAST DAYS
6, 7. How are Jesus’ words about wars and food shortages being fulfilled today?

6 “Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom.” (Matthew 24:7) Millions of people have been killed in wars during the past century. One British historian wrote: “The 20th century was the most murderous in recorded history. . . . It was a century of almost unbroken war, with few and brief periods without organised armed conflict somewhere.” A report from the Worldwatch Institute states: “Three times as many people fell victim to war in [the 20th] century as in all the wars from the first century AD to 1899.” More than 100 million people have died as a result of wars since 1914. Even if we know the sorrow of losing one loved one in warfare, we can only imagine such misery and pain multiplied millions of times over.

7 “There will be food shortages.” (Matthew 24:7) Researchers say that food production has increased greatly during the past 30 years. Nevertheless, food shortages continue because many people do not have enough money to buy food or land on which to raise crops. In developing countries, well over a billion people have to live on an income of a dollar or less a day. The majority of these suffer from chronic hunger. The World Health Organization estimates that malnutrition plays a major role in the deaths of more than five million children each year.

8, 9. What shows that Jesus’ prophecies about earthquakes and pestilences have come true?

8 “There will be great earthquakes.” (Luke 21:11) According to the U.S. Geological Survey, an average of 19 major earthquakes are expected per year. These are powerful enough to damage buildings and crack the ground. And on an average, earthquakes strong enough to cause total destruction of buildings have occurred yearly. Available records show that earthquakes have claimed over two million lives since 1900. One source states: “Improvements in technology have only slightly reduced the death toll.”

9 “There will be . . . pestilences.” (Luke 21:11) Despite medical advances, old and new diseases plague mankind. One report says that 20 well-known diseases—including tuberculosis, malaria, and cholera—have become more common in recent decades, and some types of disease are increasingly difficult to cure by means of drugs. In fact, at least 30 new diseases have appeared. Some of them have no known cure and are fatal.

MEANWHILE IN THE EAST, ALSO IN 1914 JULY 27...

Isaiah 24:15 New International Version (NIV)
Therefore in the east give glory to the Lord;
exalt the name of the Lord, the God of Israel,
in the islands of the sea.


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Isaiah 42:10 New International Version (NIV)
Sing to the Lord a new song,
his praise from the ends of the earth,
you who go down to the sea, and all that is in it,
you islands, and all who live in them.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Yes, but confusingly that word doesn't work.

Church of Christ are a denomination.

Churches of Christ - Wikipedia

Further, Church (kuriakos) means building. Ecclesia means assembly/people/Body. We are the Body of Christ.

And I refuse to see this as a Christian-only club. If you love your neighbour, if you forgive others, if give hospitality in a world that ignores mercy, and if you see the world for the wicked place it is, Christ will appear to you.

That anyone is left behind is a tragedy. But I do not believe eternal torment is the same as everlasting torment. Eternal means outside time. When I worked at Amazon, there were 10 hour shifts, but because the time of certain things felt longer, it was a stretched out time. Eternity is having no beginning nor any end. The Christians typically do not believe in reincarnation, because it looks too much like the Greek notion of heading from one body to another. But I reject the notion that God is done with us. 1 Timothy 2:4 assures us that God desires all to be saved, and Romans 8:38 tells us that nothing can separate us from the love of God. Clearly the judged are thrown into a lake of fire, clearly it lasts an eternity, but given these two, I cannot believe that this can be the end of the story. The Buddhists believe in rebirth, which is distinct from reincarnation in that the self is destroyed and recreated. If we're looking at a lake of fire, let's think of a foundry. Some stuff is pulled out because it is not part of the metal used for scrap. Some, called dross, doesn't melt and is fished out. And some gets melted down to be recast. The same is true of vegetable matter turned to ash. Some is used to make soap, and some is put into the compost, to rot and make new soil for growing new stuff. Everlasting torment means God burns us (pardon the expression) for the hell of it, with no end result in sight. Those who are put into fire without time eventually melt down and are recast into other creations. Think of this as a time loop, probably with parallel dimensions. God desires all of us be saved. How ever many times this takes.

John 10:1-18 (but let's focus on John 10:16)

"And I have other sheep which are not of this flock."

This is often overlooked in favor of Christian exclusionism (pointing to "no one comes to the Father but through me", this is not a statement that all religions but Christianity are wrong, it really means that Jesus is the person of God that attempts to connect with all of us, and only by connecting to God are we saved), but the message here seems to be that in the last days, Jesus will call to us to be saved. If not, into the lake of fire. But God desires all to be saved. So rebirth may be an option (not that it's a pleasant process).
 
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