sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Because the Spirit of God makes us living beings. It's what made Jesus -- a fully human being -- a living being. That Spirit is God in us. I mention it because it illustrates that we are one in God.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
The Trinity: Was Athanasius Scripturally Right?
- Thread starter SLPCCC
- Start date
firedragon
Veteran Member
Then my question was based on that. Cheers.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Arianism looks like Philo's Son of God.
Last edited:
SLPCCC
Active Member
John 14:28 “You have heard Me say to you, 'I am going away and coming back to you.' If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, 'I am going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I.”
John 14:12 - Jesus says “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go to the Father.”
- Strong's Concordance states that meizon, the Greek word for greater means “larger” [not better]
- Vine's Dictionary says that meizon 'is the comparative degree of megas” (meaning “great” in the Greek).
The Father has authority over the Son (who became a man), as the sender is over the sent one. Using Strong's and Vine's definition of “greater” and interpreting Jesus’ own words: “the Father is larger, higher in rank than I.” Jesus purposely “humbled himself' became a willing servant to the Father and mankind. His position was lower than God the Father's, thus His Father was “greater” than He. The word greater denotes a difference in rank or position.
Last edited:
SLPCCC
Active Member
We can see that the Jehovah's Witnesses' belief in Jesus is from Arian. They are neo-Arianist. I'm not bashing. I just pointing it out.
SLPCCC
Active Member
Acts 5: 1-4 - But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, and kept back [part] of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thy heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land? While it remained, did it not remain thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thy power? How is it that thou hast conceived this thing in thy heart? thou has not lied unto men, but unto God.
The Holy Spirit is the 3rd Person. It can be lied to.
The Holy Spirit is not some force as Arius claimed. It should be very obvious that the Holy Spirit has self-identity, is aware, and is not merely a force because a force doesn't speak, love, grieve, and have a mind.
The Holy Spirit is the 3rd Person. It can be lied to.
- The Holy Spirit can be lied to - Acts 5: 1-4 , "why hath Satan filled thy heart to lie to the Holy Spirit
- The Holy Spirit grieves like a person - Isaiah 63:10, "But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit. Therefore, He turned Himself to become their enemy, He fought against them."
- The Holy Spirit loves like a person - Rom. 15:30, "Now I urge you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God for me."
- The Holy Spirit has a mind - Rom. 8:27, "and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God."
- The Holy Spirit speaks - Acts 8:29, "And the Spirit said to Philip, "Go up and join this chariot."
- The Holy Spirit helps/comforts - But when the Comforter comes, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall bear witness of me:
The Holy Spirit is not some force as Arius claimed. It should be very obvious that the Holy Spirit has self-identity, is aware, and is not merely a force because a force doesn't speak, love, grieve, and have a mind.
Just because we reject a doctrine that did not exist when Jesus and his apostles walked the earth, doesn’t mean that we are Arians......we have simply reverted back to what the first Christians were taught and believed. There was “one God” whom they clearly identified as “the Father” and one “Lord” (Master) who was their teacher and mentor, but not their God. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)
No one has addressed the problem of apostasy that Jesus and his apostles said was coming (Matthew 13:36-43; 2 Peter 2:1-3; 1 Timothy 4:1-3; Hebrews 6:4-6).....it is not new, but was surfacing towards the end of the first century. The presence of the apostles acted as a restraint until the last contributions of the Christian scriptures were completed. When the last apostle John died, the apostasy then took off unhindered. (2 Thessalonians 2:6-12)
Christendom and her adopted doctrines are a product of that apostasy. Only in “the time of the end” was there to be a “cleansing” of God’s worshippers. (Daniel 12:4; 9-10) Why would such a cleansing be necessary unless spiritually contaminated teachings had crept in? Wasn’t that the problem with Judaism? Didn’t Jesus expose the Pharisees as those who led their charges into Gehenna? (Matthew 23:15)
The Bible clearly states that, ‘as animals die, so people die’... and “they all have but one spirit.”
— Ecclesiastes 3:19-20.
This ties in with the way Jehovah told Adam about death....He told Adam, ‘You eat from that tree, you’re going to die.’
HE DIDNT EXPLAIN ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT DEATH.....because there IS nothing more to it.
The ONLY difference, is that most humans who ever lived will be resurrected in the future. John 6:44
— Ecclesiastes 3:19-20.
This ties in with the way Jehovah told Adam about death....He told Adam, ‘You eat from that tree, you’re going to die.’
HE DIDNT EXPLAIN ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT DEATH.....because there IS nothing more to it.
The ONLY difference, is that most humans who ever lived will be resurrected in the future. John 6:44
SLPCCC
Active Member
I think it's a lot of hubris to say that all the Christian religions are wrong but only yours is right. In your signature, you have, "Let him who thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall" 1 Corinthians 10:12. Suppose, just suppose, that your religion is the one that is wrong. How would you know?
From the pagan inspired doctrines that we cleaned out....I am absolutely certain that the church I was raised in was nothing even close to what Jesus started.
So you can just suppose that the "many" are on the right road if you wish.....I will choose the road less traveled.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
So did you learn in seminary that it's a fairytale that Jesus was a carpenter? Or is that a concept you figured somehow? Certainly not that I haven't reckoned that the churches basically since Constantine's time considered it proper to fight to the death against others of the same faith to support their country. I am grateful to the Almighty God and His Son Jesus that God showed me the way because I didn't always think this way. God saved me.through Jesus Christ, my Lord. Thank God for that.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I was just reading the Catholic Catechism and came across the teaching about the Trinity, then I turned to Mary as being without sin. They made that up. So do you believe Mary was the "mother of God," and therefore did not inherit any sin from her forebearers in her DNA?
From those who kill their brothers, and those who don’t.
That’s one of the biggest ways! Maybe even THE biggest.
I agree but nontrinitarians will right away bring the argument that "Almighty is not equal to Mighty" ignoring the "God" noun that the Mighty adjective is attached to.
Jehovah said:
(Isaiah 43:10) Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me,'"
So the real question is, How is it that Jesus is called "GOD" when God says "Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me,'"
At John 1:1 in the original Greek, it seems that the writer knew about this scripture of Jesus being called "God" with a capital "G" because it reads in a literal translation "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with the God, and God was the word." The word-for-word translation reads,
In John 20:28 Thomas also says to Jesus, "The Lord of me, and the God of me"........................
First, I find at John 20:17 Jesus already speaks about his Father and His God, so what doubting Thomas said in front of Jesus does No have to mean Jesus is God.
Even today we hear a person say, " Oh my God " in front of a reporter and we know the person is not calling the reporter as their God.
John concluded his chapter 20 by stating who he thinks Jesus is at John 20:31.
John also writes at Revelation 3:12 that the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him.
True, Jesus was " in" the beginning, but according to Psalms 90:2 God had No beginning being from everlasting.....
So, pre-human heavenly Jesus was Not ' before ' the beginning as his God was ' before ' the beginning....
Jesus was ' in ' the beginning (Revelation 3:14) but Jesus was Not ' before ' the beginning.
If Mary was the 'Mother of God' then who created Mary since the God of the Bible is THE Creator of all according to Jesus at Revelation 4:11
I find Jesus is the Lord of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and Jesus as Lord has the voice of the Archangel. Each person has their own voice.
I find the name of God in acceptable English in the King James version at Psalms 83:18.
Douay version uses the Hebrew Yahweh
God's name comes from the Tetragrammaton. (YHWH )
There are two (2) LORD/Lord's mentioned at Psalms 110.
The LORD in ALL Upper-Case letters stand fro LORD God ( Tetragrammaton YHWH )
The other Lord ( in some lower-case letters ) stands for Lord Jesus.
- www.jw.org
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Good question.
Why stop at John 10:30 when Jesus clearly says who he is at John 10:36 _________
I wonder how an ' it ' ( neuter ) can be a person _____________
God's spirit is a neuter "it ' at Numbers 11:17, 25. Newer versions also changed ' it ' to masculine gender at Romans 8:16,26.
Even in English we speak of a car or a ship as a ' she ' although they remain a neuter ' it '.