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God And Homosexuality

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
I didn't say "I have a black friend." I said I have gay friends and family

:facepalm:

Having gay friends and family does not indicate that you don't have biased, misguided beliefs about us. That was the point of my "I have a black friend" comment.

and am not ignorant of the issues, their complexity, or the desire of gays to say their internal compasss, which tells them something is wrong/guilty/hurting is 100% from outside themselves.

Great, then you understand that homophobia, such as telling gay people that our sexuality, simply by virtue of the gender we're attracted to, is inherently broken, sinful, evil, unnatural, disgusting, the equivalent of pedophilia or bestiality, the result of sexual abuse, that we're "not really gay" just confused, or that we're going to hell if we ever act on our sexual desires, is all deeply psychologically traumatic and hurtful to us. Particularly when you ingrain those messages in our heads from the time we can understand what you're saying. I'm so glad that you understand that. And I'm sure moving forward you'll act accordingly. Right?

IMHO, all persons need to trust Jesus for salvation, friends who have are honest about where their sexuality has been bruised/wounded--they deal with past hurts instead of blame shifting.

Again, the guilt-tripping and gaslighting is noted. If I don't agree with you, I'm "blame shifting" or am not being honest about my "wounded" sexuality. IMHO, people need to educate themselves with empirical data and by actually believing gay people when they share their inner life instead of assuming that they're not being honest.

I'm a Jew. Half my race was killed in living memory in a genocide. I don't say "the pain I'm in is because of anti-Semitism". Let us both deal honestly with our pain, starting with, have you doubted or struggled with gay desires/been unsure you are gay, without a justification like "The struggles I had were all because of others' comments and opinions".

Given that you won't even believe what I've already told you, and are repeatedly attempting to guilt-trip and gaslight me, why would I share more of my inner life with you?

If you actually want to know more about how gay people feel, start by giving us the benefit of the doubt about our own feelings and experiences instead of trying to immediately fit the square peg of our lives into the round hole of your preconceived theology, and assuming that we're lying to you when what we say doesn't fit your paradigm.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
When you speak out publicly against them, yes, it is taking part in systemic violence.

That's just more of your politically correct nonsense. What they should do, according to the Bible, is repent, or perish (Luke 13:3). And that's love - love speaks the truth so that hopefully sinners will repent and not be lost.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
That's just more of your politically correct nonsense.
No. It isn't. It is taking part in systemic violence, because it perpetuates the judgment, intimidation, and bigotry that is inherent in that system. Perpetuating these things contributes to physical and emotional harm (as we saw with the George Floyd case).

What they should do, according to the Bible, is repent, or perish
Why? They've committed no sin. You have not proven that being homosexual is a sin, especially since the bible doesn't address the issue of homosexuality.

And that's love - love speaks the truth so that hopefully sinners will repent and not be lost.
No, it's bigotry disguised as love. You're not speaking truth; you're speaking biased opinion.
 

Mitty

Active Member
I support systemic violence against the homosexual population? Horse manure.



Yeah, homosexuals have a right to gay marriage in this country. But the Bible says the afterlife is another story.

1 Co 6:9 - "Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men."
And that's why all remarried divorcees will be tossed into the lake of fire, but the bible says nothing at all about female homosexuality or women with women apart from Ruth and Naomi.
 

Mitty

Active Member
Jesus spoke against homosexuality, defining a marriage as a man and woman, with God as witness.

Jesus loved all His disciples, telling them He loved them all with a great love, and John, who wrote one of the gospels, was excited to report He loved John.
WRONG. Jesus said nothing about homosexuality, nor why he loved one particular disciple and not a wife. And that disciple did not write anything given that the gospel wasn't written until about 70 years after Jesus was executed for sedition.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
So you draw no lines? Because "the sky falls" when it's an adult and a child. There are limits, you just don't like them in certain places, I think.

I encourage you to listen first, read the Bible--learn a bit. I say that to you respectfully.
What? Did you just compare homosexuality to pedophilia?

Your "limits" are arbitrary and stupid. It's okay for one couple to do the exact same behavior that you deem sinful for another couple to do just because of the genders involved. That makes no sense.
 

Mitty

Active Member
I've answered all your questions, you are continuing to duck what I said, including the statement that the women/men engaged in unnatural acts (plural), not anal sex (single act we can think of).
None of that changes the fact that the bible says nothing at all about female homosexuality, and that Romans 1:26-27 is obviously about anal sex of women and men which Paul described as "vile" and "unseemly". And it's your choice if you believe that anal sex is "the natural use of the woman" and that female genitalia are "vile" and "unseemly".
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
That's just more of your politically correct nonsense. What they should do, according to the Bible, is repent, or perish (Luke 13:3). And that's love - love speaks the truth so that hopefully sinners will repent and not be lost.
Are you able to grasp that posts like yours prove to me, and zillions of other people, that your God image(Jesus) is a fictional character from primitive literature? That it's nothing to do with morality or God?

Because He [Jesus] isn't God or Christ or anything, he's just another primitive Jewish social reformer from 1st century Judea. More like Osama bin Laden than Gandhi, except legends grew up that aren't plausible.
Then the RCC picked a batch of writings and canonized them, declared them magically true, and people like you believe that.

At least, when it agrees with you. When it doesn't, you just blow it off.
To me, this is proof that your religion is about you.
Tom
 
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Spartan

Well-Known Member
No. It isn't. It is taking part in systemic violence, because it perpetuates the judgment, intimidation, and bigotry that is inherent in that system. Perpetuating these things contributes to physical and emotional harm (as we saw with the George Floyd case).


Why? They've committed no sin. You have not proven that being homosexual is a sin, especially since the bible doesn't address the issue of homosexuality.


No, it's bigotry disguised as love. You're not speaking truth; you're speaking biased opinion.

That's just more nonsense. Love warns people to repent. That's what Jesus did - warned people to repent. In fact, the Book of Isaiah itself supports warning people to turn from their sins (i.e. gay sex hedonism, adultery, etc.):

“When I say to the wicked, ‘You wicked person, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak out to dissuade them from their ways, that wicked person will die for their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. But if you do warn the wicked person to turn from their ways and they do not do so, they will die for their sin, though you yourself will be saved.” – Ezekiel 33

Also note all the Old Testament prophets who condemned sin and corrupt moral leadership, and who were persecuted for their discernment and duty.

But stay quiet, and evil will abound:

“The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to (say and) do nothing.” – Edmund Burke
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Are you able to grasp that posts like yours prove to me, and zillions of other people, that your God image(Jesus) is a fictional character from primitive literature? That it's nothing to do with morality or God?

I have read the Bible and I'm confident that Jesus was as homophobic as you are. Because He isn't God or Christ or anything, he's just another primitive Jewish social reformer from 1st century Judea. More like Osama bin Laden than Gandhi, except legends grew up that aren't plausible.
Then the RCC picked a batch of writings and canonized them, declared them magically true, and people like you believe that.

At least, when it agrees with you. When it doesn't, you just blow it off.
To me, this is proof that your religion is about you.
Tom

So now God is a homophobe?

"The word "homophobia", which is widely used as an insult, is an ideological tool of left-wing political correctness and effectively enforces censorship by smearing all dissenters from LGBT ideology with accusations of "mental illness" - "phobia". It goes hand in hand with the ploy of replacing moral terminology with accusations of "hatred"."

Homophobia - Conservapedia
 

Mitty

Active Member
I think you haven't studied marriage among Jews or in the ANE much. Jesus also told the opposite, for example, "Don't you know I can call angels now to rescue me, but I won't."
None of that changes the fact that a biblical marriage is simply a personal agreement between two people to shack up together.

Obviously biblical morality (including the ten commandments etc) is just made made, which is why it wasn't morally wrong when Abraham shacked up with his sister Sarah and committed adultery with Hagar. Nor was it morally wrong for Abraham to kill his son as a blood sacrifice, or for Cain(an) to kill his brother, or for Noah's father to kill a boy for hitting him (Gen 4) since the ten commandments did not apply to them or their ancestors.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
That's just more nonsense. Love warns people to repent. That's what Jesus did - warned people to repent. In fact, the Book of Isaiah itself supports warning people to turn from their sins (i.e. gay sex hedonism, adultery, etc.):

“When I say to the wicked, ‘You wicked person, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak out to dissuade them from their ways, that wicked person will die for their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. But if you do warn the wicked person to turn from their ways and they do not do so, they will die for their sin, though you yourself will be saved.” – Ezekiel 33

Also note all the Old Testament prophets who condemned sin and corrupt moral leadership, and who were persecuted for their discernment and duty.

But stay quiet, and evil will abound:

“The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to (say and) do nothing.” – Edmund Burke
Problem is, a sexual orientation doesn't give us anything to repent from. Unless you feel you need to repent from being heterosexual...
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Lmao. You sound like a blue haired church lady from Iowa, clutching her pearls. You don't know anything about regular gay people.

Baloney. I've been around gays for decades. None of them believe gay sex is a sin that needs to be repented of. None of them are right about that.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Baloney. I've been around gays for decades. None of them believe gay sex is a sin that needs to be repented of. None of them are right about that.
That doesn't mean you actually knew gay people on a personal level or really anything about gay culture. The idiots screaming hate through bullhorns at Pride parades can claim to have been around gays, too.

Nor should they. I'm trans and bisexual, and I certainly don't believe it's a sin to repent of. I'm past self-hatred over that.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
So now God is a homophobe?
No.
I have no reason to believe that the Creator is a homophobe.

His self appointed spokesmen, like you, tend to homophobic. But that's not at all the same. It's just solid evidence that you don't know any more about God than I do. And the Bible is just so much primitive literature, little to do with God either.
Tom
 

Mitty

Active Member
Gay sex needs to be repented of, and is a sin according to the Bible.
Do you also believe that the adultery by ALL remarried divorcees needs to be repented of, given that it is even one of the ten commandments, whereas the bible only refers to anal sex of women and men and says nothing at all about female homosexuality (Romans 1:26-27), and is not even one of the ten commandments?

Or do you believe that Jesus and what he said is irrelevant?
 
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