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Another one of them proofs for God.

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
You are making the claim that Scripture is not hard facts, but have presented no evidence to confirm your assertion.

Nice attempt to shift the burden of proof but it doesn't fly. The scriptures are a collection of stories and other writings that contain a number of claims. They remain just claims unless you can provide reasons to take them seriously.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Hard facts? Present some and we'll discuss and debate it.

You entered this debate with the bold claim that "everyone knows God exists" and just quoted an old book.

You made the claim here, you need to provide the "hard facts", or reasoning, or something to support your claim.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
Negative. You are making the claim that Scripture is not hard facts, but have presented no evidence to confirm your assertion.

You have appealed to nothing other than your own opinion, which has no authority.

Wrong. Unless you do not know the difference between what a claim is and proof or evidence of a claim is.

You appeal to nothing but claims from a belief and compilation of books at the moment, which have no authority here, neither have you appealed to hard evidence to support the claim. A person who appeals to nothing but claims or vague evidence with ambiguous conclusions is relying on nothing more than their opinion, which is what you are doing.

I am appealing to what qualifies as evidence in order for something to be true, the same method we use to determine whether extra terrestrials, fairies and psychic abilities actually exist or not. People make many claims, even appealing to claims made by books, but claims are not reason enough to believe something.

So no, the onus is on you, the one making the claim, to provide evidence.

Logic 101.
 
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You entered this debate with the bold claim that "everyone knows God exists" and just quoted an old book.

You made the claim here, you need to provide the "hard facts", or reasoning, or something to support your claim.
You've asserted the Scripture is just an old book and does not count as hard facts. Despite being incorrect and insulting, that is merely your opinion. You have presented no evidence to confirm your assertion.

I am more than willing to present and debate the evidence, but first you must be willing to recognize your opinion about the Bible is not authoritative and you also must defend your claim with facts.
 
I am asking you for falsifying criteria which you would accept as proving that your beliefs are wrong. Don't switch the question back around on me and not answer my question.
It's very simple. Present what you believe is the truth with a source other than your opinion and we'll debate it.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
It's very simple. Present what you believe is the truth with a source other than your opinion and we'll debate it.

Again:

I am asking you for falsifying criteria which you would accept as proving that your beliefs are wrong.

So I will rephrase the question:

Describe the evidence needed to determine that your faith is false?
 
Again:

I am asking you for falsifying criteria which you would accept as proving that your beliefs are wrong.

So I will rephrase the question:

Describe the evidence needed to determine that your faith is false?

My faith is not false. (I believe) Jesus is the Truth. How can I tell you what evidence to give me to disprove my position? Clearly if you had the evidence, you would disprove it, rather than ask me for it.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
My faith is not false. (I believe) Jesus is the Truth. How can I tell you what evidence to give me to disprove my position? Clearly if you had the evidence, you would disprove it, rather than ask me for it.

How can you not comprehend what will falsify your position?

Even Paul could do so by saying that "if Jesus Christ was not raised from the dead then our faith is in vain" (paraphrase).

Is your faith blind?

The reason why I ask is because I could be throwing any information at you and it could all be futile because what would be debunked is not the foundation of your faith. So it would be like "punching in the wind".

Everybody should know the falsifying criteria for their belief because if they don't have one then their faith is blind. In fact the bible writers understood this concept well and had falsifying criteria for many concepts regarding faith, like how to prove a prophet false for instance.

I am also not saying that your faith is false, depending on what you mean by faith. I do think that you truly believe.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
You've asserted the Scripture is just an old book and does not count as hard facts. Despite being incorrect and insulting, that is merely your opinion. You have presented no evidence to confirm your assertion.

You're still trying to shift the burden of proof. You cited the bible as the reason to believe that everyone knows God exists, so it really is up to you to say why you think we should take the words written in the bible as authoritative on this subject.

The bible is (undeniably) a collection of old books (my use of the word 'just' related to the fact that you just quoted it), if you claim it is more than that, and that, specifically, there is a reason to take the words you quoted as an authority on the subject, then it's up to you to support that claim.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
O says the male scientist/Satanist is God the Earth stone...a proven mass body of a round circle, that follows cycles also equated as circular.

If God by a male quote O stone the planet moving in spatial time....which just means the planet of God O stone with its pi equated signal in the heavens as light signal moves around the Sun. A circle.

Today equate ___________lines and formulas along the same phrasing _____
lines.

O natural 12 light is in the Earth gases as 12 gas mass light burning versus 12 gas mass not burning, clear and colder.

O pi existing as the movement of God on the face of gas/spirit and WATER that sealed it.

Now if you asked self, how did a Tree get its roots so deep in the ground...and then humans say...we came out as a pre owned spirit. Would you not be floating above the ground? Not actually on the physicality ground...so were grounded and given bone like stone and that came from above you....radiation fall out?

And so the Earth would have opened up its fused stone mass and grounded the Tree spirit into that ground also and then it was shut on the tree spirit.....placed beneath the ground.

And then knowing that circumstance your intention was to cut out that level of God fusion, ground and release the Tree..so that you could be released also?

Isn't that what you did in the past?

Why the formula against time is a line ________as if you want the Circle to be broken from existing O fall out into a heated burning radiation line _______________ that reforms around the body of God the ONE and first stone to O form the circle of its destruction?

Isn't that what you are trying to achieve by claiming that a body moving in a cycle around the sun is infinite as if you want the actual stone O planet to no longer move around the Sun but released into an infinite line by your machine action?

As if our planet is the representative of the INFINITE? Straight line movement as a non stop number yet mass is a number ONE.

For you know you remove mass from the place of ONE.

Relativity if you state that the INFINITE is 1...………………..and keep counting 101010101010101010101 ONE is God the planet and 0 zero the space God moves through.

If you do INFINITE NUMBERing you quote 1,2,3,4,5,6 claiming non stop numbers...yet if you remove mass...the numbers no longer relate to infinite and non stop...for you would have minused O a whole mass by numbers...infinite in science along a line is not real.

It is why you then used letter symbols so no one would realize what you were actually saying in secret. The Destroyer psyche owns and exhibits behaviours of secrecy about real intent...and always had.

Heating Up: Climate Change Harms Alaska’s Communities ...
https://blog.nwf.org/2020/05/heating-up-climate-change-harms-alaskas-communities-wildlife

5/05/2020 · Rising temperatures in the Bering Sea could disrupt fisheries and are linked to massive seabird die-offs, shifts in the local ecosystem, and hardship for Alaska Natives. In 2019, seabirds off the coast of Alaska’s Bering Sea


Males and their owned coded words and maths human inferred.
Num BERING.



Despite all the various Creation myths that the Egyptians subscribed to, they had one thing in common, Nun. Even though the myths named different gods as the original creator, they all agreed that he sprang from Nun, the primordial waters. Nun was more than an ocean, he was a limitless expanse of motionless water. Even after the world was created, Nun continued to exist at it's margins and would one day return to destroy it and begin the cycle again.
Ancient Egypt: the Mythology - Nun

Nun
now
Num Bering.
 
How can you not comprehend what will falsify your position?

Even Paul could do so by saying that "if Jesus Christ was not raised from the dead then our faith is in vain" (paraphrase).

Is your faith blind?

The reason why I ask is because I could be throwing any information at you and it could all be futile because what would be debunked is not the foundation of your faith. So it would be like "punching in the wind".

Everybody should know the falsifying criteria for their belief because if they don't have one then their faith is blind. In fact the bible writers understood this concept well and had falsifying criteria for many concepts regarding faith, like how to prove a prophet false for instance.

I am also not saying that your faith is false, depending on what you mean by faith. I do think that you truly believe.
I understand the question. You want me to commit to some falsifying criteria so you can bombard me with articles from your google search. Then if I don't change my mind you can ridicule me with all your might.

I'm not going to do hours of reading or watching your propaganda. What I will do is have a debate with you like I would in person, face-to-face, exchanging ideas.

I don't mind a few links here or there, but don't link me to sleep.

As for me setting you up for success in changing my mind - I don't think so. Truth is never punching into the wind. Lies are. If you have some truth to present, do so.
 
You're still trying to shift the burden of proof. You cited the bible as the reason to believe that everyone knows God exists, so it really is up to you to say why you think we should take the words written in the bible as authoritative on this subject.

The bible is (undeniably) a collection of old books (my use of the word 'just' related to the fact that you just quoted it), if you claim it is more than that, and that, specifically, there is a reason to take the words you quoted as an authority on the subject, then it's up to you to support that claim.
Oh how skeptics love to set themselves up as judge and rule by their opinion. They think their disbelief requires no proof and they can enjoy disagreeing with all evidence presented.

You have made truth claims. You have not remained neutral on the Word of God being hard facts or not. You have asserted it is not, with nothing more than your opinion. Your opinion is not the rule of law in this debate.

(I think) if you want to challenge the Word of God with your opinion, the burden of proof is on you.

Recognize your opinion is not authoritative and that any claim you make, where in the negative or affirmative, also requires evidence.

Otherwise, I will not submit to this kangaroo court.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Romans 1:19-21 makes it clear everyone knows God exists b/c He has revealed it to them and they're w/o excuse. (I believe) There is no such thing as an atheist. They deny God b/c they don't want to believe in Him. (I think) They love their sin and they love to masquerade as if they need proof of God's existance. More proof is not needed. Getting them to reveal why they pretend to believe God doesn't exist is the key. Anger, bitterness, trauma, idolatry etc are the real reasons. Those who actually want proof are humble about it. How many humble atheists do you converse with?

Errrm wasn't it Paul who authored "Romans" and was he not a human?,it's obvious he was ignorant of atheism imo.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Oh how skeptics love to set themselves up as judge and rule by their opinion. They think their disbelief requires no proof...

Not accepting some claim just because it is made, doesn't require any proof or evidence, it is always up to those making a claim to provide some reason to take it seriously.

Look: I have an invisible dragon in my garage, now, is it up to me to back it up or you to provide some evidence that I don't?

...and they can enjoy disagreeing with all evidence presented.

You haven't presented any evidence (for your claim), you just quoted a book, which is only evidence that you agree with the writer of the book.

You have made truth claims. You have not remained neutral on the Word of God being hard facts or not. You have asserted it is not, with nothing more than your opinion. Your opinion is not the rule of law in this debate.

(I think) if you want to challenge the Word of God with your opinion, the burden of proof is on you.

Calling it the "Word of God" is begging the question (is this fallacy bingo?), and I haven't made any claims about it, I've just asked you to justify why this book is an authority on what everybody knows.

Otherwise, I will not submit to this kangaroo court.

It's not a court, it's simple, basic logic. If people had to accept claims just because they were made, we'd all have to believe endless contradictory things all the time.

More specifically, you have claimed (implicitly at least) that the bible should be an authority on what everybody believes, and have (explicitly) called it the "Word of God". I haven't made a counter-claim about it (only asked you to justify yours), but if everybody had to disprove every claim, then I could just claim that the bible is a pack of lies, and, by your own 'logic' here, it would be up to you to prove that it wasn't.
 
Not accepting some claim just because it is made, doesn't require any proof or evidence, it is always up to those making a claim to provide some reason to take it seriously.

Look: I have an invisible dragon in my garage, now, is it up to me to back it up or you to provide some evidence that I don't?



You haven't presented any evidence (for your claim), you just quoted a book, which is only evidence that you agree with the writer of the book.



Calling it the "Word of God" is begging the question (is this fallacy bingo?), and I haven't made any claims about it, I've just asked you to justify why this book is an authority on what everybody knows.



It's not a court, it's simple, basic logic. If people had to accept claims just because they were made, we'd all have to believe endless contradictory things all the time.

More specifically, you have claimed (implicitly at least) that the bible should be an authority on what everybody believes, and have (explicitly) called it the "Word of God". I haven't made a counter-claim about it (only asked you to justify yours), but if everybody had to disprove every claim, then I could just claim that the bible is a pack of lies, and, by your own 'logic' here, it would be up to you to prove that it wasn't.

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions.
Proverbs 18:2 NIV

There is no debate if you have an invisible dragon or not. If you insisted there was, you'd prove it. We both agree on this. If I insisted there wasn't, I would prove it. If I was neutral, I'd prove nothing.

How would I disprove it? Should we waste our time on that subject or shall we debate the relevant topic at hand?

You have made truth claims. You have claimed the Bible is unreliable and unfactual. Do you have any evidence for that? Apparently not. So what makes you think it's true? B/c that's your opinion? So what.

I'm not going to keep explaining this concept to you. (I think) Your opinion of the Bible is not authoritative. You think it is, but you have presented no evidence for why I should believe that.

Now where were we? I believe we were discussing the falsehood of atheism and in your humble opinion you reject the evidence of Scripture. You have countered w/ your opinion and nothing more. You have belabored the point long enough and I will move back to the original topic or move on from this conversation with you.
 
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If I insinuated that your worldview was a delusion, would I be behaving respectfully toward you?
Have you not? Isn't that what you believe? It is not disrespectful to debate differing beliefs in this context. I do my best to show mutual respect, but we shouldn't come here wearing our hearts on our sleeves.
 
Errrm wasn't it Paul who authored "Romans" and was he not a human?,it's obvious he was ignorant of atheism imo.

For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
2 Peter 1:21 NIV

God is the Author of the Bible and He is not ignorant of anything.

Why do you have a Christian crusader as your icon?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Have you not? Isn't that what you believe? It is not disrespectful to debate differing beliefs in this context. I do my best to show mutual respect, but we shouldn't come here wearing our hearts on our sleeves.
There's a difference between disagreement and gaslighting.

Do you know what gaslighting is?
 
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