Jesus Said "It Is Finished"

KenS said:

#125

I'm not letting you off...

and remember, just presenting scriptures that support a position at the expense of others by ignoring them, doesn't help your presentation.

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I will use the only weapon I have and that is my sword, the word of God (Eph.6:17). It sounds like you are trying to disarm me of my weapon. I will not allow that to happen.

11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; (1Peter 4:11)

Good-Ole-Rebel said:

Your question should be "what kind of salvation is being discussed". See again post #(63).

And, why don't you address (1 Peter 3:20-21)? You used it. I believe it. Apparently you don't.

Good-Ole-Rebel

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20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us.


In the days of Noah
Eight souls were saved by water
Baptism now saves us

Hows that?

Nova2216 said:

I will use the only weapon I have and that is my sword, the word of God (Eph.6:17). It sounds like you are trying to disarm me of my weapon. I will not allow that to happen.

11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; (1Peter 4:11)

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Correct... so that is why I wondered on the "baptisms" whether you wanted to throw out what Jesus said.

Nova2216 said:

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us.


In the days of Noah
Eight souls were saved by water
Baptism now saves us

Hows that?

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That's a shadow (figure) of Jesus. We don't go by shadows.

Nova2216 said:

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us.


In the days of Noah
Eight souls were saved by water
Baptism now saves us

Hows that?

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Oh that was real deep.

Yet you didn't address the 'salvation' spoken of as I said before.

And, the verses you give are plain. "The Like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us."

And in (1 Pet.3:21) it also says, which you like to ignore, "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God"

Water baptism give you a good conscience toward God. That is all. It doesn't save you. If you don't get water baptized but you believe, you are still a Christian. But it is important in your walk of salvation.

Good-Ole-Rebel

You know your in trouble when you pit one part of a verse against the other part of the very same verse.

You claim baptism does NOT SAVE and yet the scripture you point to says the following -

"Baptism doth also now save us" (1Peter3:21)

TRUE or FALSE

KenS said:

Correct... so that is why I wondered on the "baptisms" whether you wanted to throw out what Jesus said.

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(Eph.4:5) - One Baptism

TRUE or FALSE

Good-Ole-Rebel said:

Oh that was real deep.

Yet you didn't address the 'salvation' spoken of as I said before.

And, the verses you give are plain. "The Like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us."

And in (1 Pet.3:21) it also says, which you like to ignore, "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God"

Water baptism give you a good conscience toward God. That is all. It doesn't save you. If you don't get water baptized but you believe, you are still a Christian. But it is important in your walk of salvation.

Good-Ole-Rebel

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Wasn't it Peter who said -

(Acts 2:38) - they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,



(1Peter 1:22) - 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth



Baptism doth also now save us (1Peter 3:21)


TRUE or FALSE

The theme of irrational thinking in the first instance, the science of self destruction versus human rationality today.

The teaching said that radiation converting sacrificed saved death as it saved life.

So a human who is rational would think about that Bible quote and then state...yes that is right.

If you already own death in the presence of God existing....then God supports human death.

If you irradiate and convert the face of God saved by WATER...how it was sealed.....then God would allow unnatural new death/sacrifice to be given to the life, and it would die from early age death. So death was saved...in the same instance sacrifice was saved, for it was experienced, and so Jesus teaching quoted that realization.

God allows humans to die from early age death. So God saves death.
God allows humans to live sacrificed in all variation forms of cell health torment...So God saves the sacrifice.

Only the Satanist tried to convince everyone that science did not change God.

So then he says look I will teach you that God in the HEAVENS...the concept of how gas light the spirit of God the one stone body moves on the face of the deep, water.

By O pi he says. I might have irradiated the ground, and G O D proves it remained in the Heavens....so do not argue with me says the Satanic nimwit…..yet we do...for he is a liar.

Yes brother G O D proves that its cooling pi O higher God signals remain in the Heavens....and we proved that PHI fell out as EVIL by D and L wing of the wavelength of the angels above.....and evil was saved also. Into O circular forms, proving that ground water saved it.

Just like we said, God O the history of sealed and held by water....water is holy.

Then he says, but I want PHI the patterns/design on the ground to be my machine and machine reaction a one of channel.

Oh, you mean it shifted from off your machine and reaction and fell sporadically onto the ground?

Yes he says.

So I wanted the channel fixed and I wanted it today to channel as all of those designs that I studied straight into my collider.

So you took the ground cooling natural water condition.....and all the sacrifices already lived that allowed those PHI bodies to own cooling not even honoured.

Instead trying to force them all into a channel, a one of flowing signal...you burnt SINK HOLES in multi places around the body of O God the Earth.

Didn't you?

Yes he says, I am a true liar actually.

Why I heard AI claim in males NDE death records updating everyday claiming all of the life sacrifices I made for nothing....as if you cared less about natural history and natural information.....just because you claim GOD is a design, when your machine WAS THE DESIGN.

God in natural history is the face of stone sealed as its natural body and you scientist are just as usual a non stop liar.

Nova2216 said:

You know your in trouble when you pit one part of a verse against the other part of the very same verse.

You claim baptism does NOT SAVE and yet the scripture you point to says the following -

"Baptism doth also now save us" (1Peter3:21)

TRUE or FALSE

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I didn't. I just didn't ignore part of the verse as you do.

I never claimed baptism doesn't play a role in our salvation. It does. What I have said is that you need to understand it's role in our salvation.

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

Water baptism does not save you from sin. It saves you from a bad conscience toward God. It symbolizes that which has already taken place.

And in that role, it is important in the believers walk of salvation. Being saved from the power of sin in our lives.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Nova2216 said:

Wasn't it Peter who said -

(Acts 2:38) - they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,



(1Peter 1:22) - 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth



Baptism doth also now save us (1Peter 3:21)


TRUE or FALSE

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Yes, it was Peter that spoke those verses. So?

Good-Ole-Rebel

Good-Ole-Rebel said:

I didn't. I just didn't ignore part of the verse as you do.

I never claimed baptism doesn't play a role in our salvation. It does. What I have said is that you need to understand it's role in our salvation.

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

Water baptism does not save you from sin. It saves you from a bad conscience toward God. It symbolizes that which has already taken place.

And in that role, it is important in the believers walk of salvation. Being saved from the power of sin in our lives.

Good-Ole-Rebel

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What makes you think I ignore the word of God?


First you say that baptism has a role in the salvation of man.

Then you say water baptism does not save you from sin.

So which is it?


Are the baptisms you mentioned above the same baptism (water baptism / baptism)?


Please do tell me how baptism is important in the believers walk of salvation. Do they need to be baptized again?


Thanks

Nova2216 said:

(Eph.4:5) - One Baptism

TRUE or FALSE

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True AND False.

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptizedwith the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Luke 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

So, unless you can explain this, and which one is the one Paul was talking about....

Nova2216 said:

What makes you think I ignore the word of God?


First you say that baptism has a role in the salvation of man.

Then you say water baptism does not save you from sin.

So which is it?


Are the baptisms you mentioned above the same baptism (water baptism / baptism)?


Please do tell me how baptism is important in the believers walk of salvation. Do they need to be baptized again?


Thanks

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I have already explained it. You need to go back and read post (63) and (150). You need to understand the three aspects of salvation.

Ignoring it doesn't help you.

Good-Ole-Rebel

KenS said:

True AND False.

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptizedwith the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Luke 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

So, unless you can explain this, and which one is the one Paul was talking about....

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The answer to (Eph.4:5) cannot both be true and false. That is a dishonest answer.

If you cannot be honest with the scriptures our discussion will not be fruitful.

(Acts 1:5) is a discussion which began back in (Luke 24:45-49).

Jesus is speaking to the apostles (not you or I).

We see this "promise" coming true in (Acts 2:1-4).

Notice (Acts 2:14) it says Peter standing up with the eleven (not the 120).

(Luke 12:50) Jesus says he was to be baptized with a certain kind of baptism which no one else could do. This would be the baptism of suffering if my memory serves me correctly (on the cross).

(Mark 1:8) is referring to (Jn 14:26). This again is a discussion between Jesus and the apostles alone.

You need to be honest with the scriptures.


Thanks

Good-Ole-Rebel said:

I have already explained it. You need to go back and read post (63) and (150). You need to understand the three aspects of salvation.

Ignoring it doesn't help you.

Good-Ole-Rebel

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I have not ignored anything. Have you read all this thread? It may do you some good.

Good-Ole-Rebel said:

Nothing is given in (Acts 22:16) defining 'calling on the name of the Lord'. When you or I pray, are we not calling on the name of the Lord? Whenever we enter into communication with God or cry out to God, we are 'calling on the name of the Lord'. No, Paul had yet to be baptized. It was important for him to experience that baptism of water and spirit. But, he was already a saved man. He believed in Jesus Christ. Even in (Acts 22:10) he stated that he was being obedient to the Lord Jesus.

And, (Matt. 7:21-23) is not about the New Birth, or the denial of it.

No. The blood of Christ washes away our sins when we believe. That is why in (Mark 16:16) it says, "...but he that believeth not shall be damned." Yes we believe and are water baptized. But it is belief that moves God to declare us righteous. Not water baptism. You can be water baptized and still be an unbeliever. But you can be a believer and not be water baptized.

Yes, I noticed the word 'washed'. What of it?

(1 Peter 3:20-21) is clear about water baptism. It provides a good conscience towards God. In water baptism we publicly identify with Jesus Christ. It, in a figure only, shows what has already taken place in our life.

You need to understand that when the Bible speaks to salvation, you need to see which aspect of salvation it is talking about. Our immediate salvation, being saved from the penalty of sin. Our present salvation, our daily walk with God being saved from the corruption in this world. Or, our future salvation, being with God and Christ free from sin in a glorified body and spirit.

Just because you see 'water' in the Scripture, doesn't mean it is water baptism. Just because you see 'saved' in the Scripture doesn't mean a question of heaven or hell.

Good-Ole-Rebel

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This is from Post #63.

#1.

Rebel - "Nothing is given in (Acts 22:16) defining 'calling on the name of the Lord'"


God said in (Acts 22:16).

Arise
Be Baptized
Wash Away Your Sins
Calling on the name of the Lord

Nova - Can you not see the words above?


#2.

Rebel - "The blood of Christ washes away our sins when we believe".


Nova - Friend, you need to find a scripture which says that long before you post it online.(1Peter 4:11) (1Cor. 4:6)
(Deut. 4:2)

I will save you some time, there is not one.



#3.

Rebel - "Just because you see 'saved' in the Scripture doesn't mean a question of heaven or hell"


Nova - What else could the word "Saved" be referring to in the NT?



Thanks

Nova2216 said:

I have not ignored anything. Have you read all this thread? It may do you some good.

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Yes, you continue to ignore that salvation entails more than being saved from the penalty of sin.

Nova2216 said:

This is from Post #63.

#1.

Rebel - "Nothing is given in (Acts 22:16) defining 'calling on the name of the Lord'"


God said in (Acts 22:16).

Arise
Be Baptized
Wash Away Your Sins
Calling on the name of the Lord

Nova - Can you not see the words above?


#2.

Rebel - "The blood of Christ washes away our sins when we believe".


Nova - Friend, you need to find a scripture which says that long before you post it online.(1Peter 4:11) (1Cor. 4:6)
(Deut. 4:2)

I will save you some time, there is not one.



#3.

Rebel - "Just because you see 'saved' in the Scripture doesn't mean a question of heaven or hell"


Nova - What else could the word "Saved" be referring to in the NT?



Thanks

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Yes, I can see the words. Like I said, and explained in post #(63), nothing there defining the phrase 'calling on the name of the Lord'. Did you read the explanation? Why not present and address it?

(Rev. 1:5) "...Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood."

You wouldn't have to ask me what else 'saved' meant if you didn't ignore what I said already. Again, saved involves three aspects of salvation.

1.) Saved from the Penalty of sin. Occurs when we believe.
2.) Saved from the Power of sin. Our Sanctification. Our daily walk.
3.) Saved from the Presence of sin. When we receive our glorified bodies.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Nova2216 said:

The answer to (Eph.4:5) cannot both be true and false. That is a dishonest answer.

If you cannot be honest with the scriptures our discussion will not be fruitful.

(Acts 1:5) is a discussion which began back in (Luke 24:45-49).

Jesus is speaking to the apostles (not you or I).

We see this "promise" coming true in (Acts 2:1-4).

Notice (Acts 2:14) it says Peter standing up with the eleven (not the 120).

(Luke 12:50) Jesus says he was to be baptized with a certain kind of baptism which no one else could do. This would be the baptism of suffering if my memory serves me correctly (on the cross).

(Mark 1:8) is referring to (Jn 14:26). This again is a discussion between Jesus and the apostles alone.

You need to be honest with the scriptures.


Thanks

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Yes..; you didn't answer it.

Two baptisms and much more because not only in Acts 2 but in Acts 10 and 19... so not just the apostles.

As far as "with a certain kind of baptism which no one else could do"...

Matthew 20:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.

22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain



So.... stay consistent with scriptures and don't add to it.

Nova2216 said:

* Rob - "The words "unto" are the Greek word eis which indicates that our believing takes us to a place, the sphere, where God does the work of making us righteous. Of course He has already done that through (dia) the works of Jesus, the agent through whom God accomplished His goal."

Nova - If that was the case then everyone would be saved b/c Jesus died for the whole world according to (1Jn. 2:2).

1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Thanks

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I'm not sure what you intimate by saying, "If that were the case..." Are you saying Romans 10:10 says something different that what I said?

There are more verses in the scriptures than 1 John 2:2 and we must consider that verse in light of all the other verses on the same subject. John described Jesus' part in our salvation, but other places in the scriptures describe each individual's part, i.e. they must confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from among the dead.