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Please, prove me wrong.

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
I've been an atheist for some time.
Quite a long time.
I had good life.
I still do :)
But today i fear, i wasted a lot of time in my life if what i've learned about God is true.
Not that I am not grateful that i discovered it, but it is a scary thought to suddenly understand how blind you were in the past and how many wrong decision i could have avoided if i've learned God a few years earlier.

So to overcome that fear, i would love someone to prove me wrong and demonstrate a reality where God is not part of.
Not the "angles and demons" God. rather God.
The one thing we all fail to understand until things suddenly "click".
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
I've been an atheist for some time.
Quite a long time.
I had good life.
I still do :)
But today i fear, i wasted a lot of time in my life if what i've learned about God is true.
Not that I am not grateful that i discovered it, but it is a scary thought to suddenly understand how blind you were in the past and how many wrong decision i could have avoided if i've learned God a few years earlier.

So to overcome that fear, i would love someone to prove me wrong and demonstrate a reality where God is not part of.
Not the "angles and demons" God. rather God.
The one thing we all fail to understand until things suddenly "click".

Hey Segev,

If you're adopting a claim, such as "God exists," the onus is on you to demonstrate it's true, not for others to demonstrate it's false.

So perhaps you could start by telling us which God you're referring to or how you define God, and what has convinced you he/she/it exists?
 

questfortruth

Well-Known Member
I've been an atheist for some time.
Quite a long time.
I had good life.
I still do :)
But today i fear, i wasted a lot of time in my life if what i've learned about God is true.
Not that I am not grateful that i discovered it, but it is a scary thought to suddenly understand how blind you were in the past and how many wrong decision i could have avoided if i've learned God a few years earlier.

So to overcome that fear, i would love someone to prove me wrong and demonstrate a reality where God is not part of.
Not the "angles and demons" God. rather God.
The one thing we all fail to understand until things suddenly "click".

In my view:

You are talking like an anti-theist. The problem has deepened.
 
Last edited:

Koldo

Outstanding Member
I've been an atheist for some time.
Quite a long time.
I had good life.
I still do :)
But today i fear, i wasted a lot of time in my life if what i've learned about God is true.
Not that I am not grateful that i discovered it, but it is a scary thought to suddenly understand how blind you were in the past and how many wrong decision i could have avoided if i've learned God a few years earlier.

So to overcome that fear, i would love someone to prove me wrong and demonstrate a reality where God is not part of.
Not the "angles and demons" God. rather God.
The one thing we all fail to understand until things suddenly "click".

I am afraid that's a pretty vague concept to even get things started.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I've been an atheist for some time.
Quite a long time.
I had good life.
I still do :)
But today i fear, i wasted a lot of time in my life if what i've learned about God is true.
Not that I am not grateful that i discovered it, but it is a scary thought to suddenly understand how blind you were in the past and how many wrong decision i could have avoided if i've learned God a few years earlier.

So to overcome that fear, i would love someone to prove me wrong and demonstrate a reality where God is not part of.
Not the "angles and demons" God. rather God.
The one thing we all fail to understand until things suddenly "click".
The first step is already taken :)
But honestly, the one who must find the answer you looking for, is you self. No matter how much I or others here speak about our experience with God or other heavenly beings. It come down to your own seach within you :)
You already have the answers within you, you just have to find it ( look behind your doubt). Only when you open up to the wisdom you already have will you get the answer to your spiritual Quest:)

But dont be afraid to ask questions when you feel stuck.
 
These two documents of mine refer to to the True and only Real One (as far as my logic and reasoning can determine), playfully:
Two Logics One Miracup(s) - Pastebin.com
ttps://pastebin.com/mL92xeJQ
Azathoth : A Dialogue with Dagon - Pastebin.com
ttps://pastebin.com/T6guWmjn

These quotes discuss some related issues:
"By the last statement, I meant someone denying any sort of experience or any kind of information whatsoever, for example, whether one calls it illusion or not, denying any thought, any sight, any vision, anything whether one considers it input or not. It is undeniable that there is at its absolute vaguest "experience" even if one denies being the experiencer, and "information". Things like the system of science I believe on an immediate level but on another level I consider it just a story told in some moments of some experiences as a mere invention and there are likely other things that can be made up by the one that you don't believe exists, probably rightfully so, since the ideas associated with the power behind animated experience are often silly and too anthropomorphic.

I do agree with that, I'm totally opposed to anthropomorphism. What I consider to be God, which I describe here:
Azathoth : A Dialogue with Dagon - Pastebin.com
ttps://pastebin.com/T6guWmjn

Is not a human or a creature, and the "intelligence" factor is only related to an ability to selectively generate or not generate rather than obstructed generation. The "Aum" is basically mentioned in that document as I explain.

God is "bodiless, pure, like nothing", literally like nothing, not a vacuum, not space, not laws, not information, so absolutely not anthropomorphic but is the force responsible for every moment of generated information and its appearance of change.

What I explain in that document is clarification or elaboration or detail for what was in this:
Two Logics One Miracup(s) - Pastebin.com
ttps://pastebin.com/mL92xeJQ


What I've found through now maybe two decades of asking people about their thoughts and views, is that there must be a developmental period where concepts and words like God take on meanings and even visual references in the minds of people which become extremely calcified and difficult to move or escape from, even if they become atheists later, they continue to think of this word in ways which specifically refer to a very human-like being or form, some form, and getting them away from such a notion proves to be difficult, even if they deny God exists, what they are saying doesn't exist is heavily attached to this notion.

Which is why murti and images and symbolism like that or stories like those in the Bible or Puranas can be utterly destructive due to free and heavy anthropomorphism.

There is no such God, and even if there was and it were to come down saying such, that would never be God, but just information, just like anything else, God can never be that.

So even when people say "I'd believe in God if God showed himself or appeared to me", I take it as a statement that they are still stuck on that damned concept of a bodily God creature and are far from understanding the true power or why it can never ever be information and why anything that is information is in a sense our equal and not appropriate for worship nor powerful no matter how powerful it may appear.

Even why God is "One" is not just a mere statement or claim, but is due to there being nothing or any factor which can be divided as the substrate underlying the generation and elimination and generation of information.

Even everyone on this website, from all the religions, mainly seems to not comprehend what God is, and what they say they believe in and talk about is just conjecturing and what they imagine are usually just total lies and falsehood.

That is the case all across the world.

The Atheists often come closer to God than many of the theists in their understandings, but they become locked about this word "God" and also locked into science and scientific systems and explanations, also into other arbitrary and temporary dream-like convincing things such as the existence of bodies and minds, that there are real objective objects and bodies receiving signals, when all they ever are or ever know is the flat layer of information that is being experienced, which like a television screen, they don't if know if they really have a back side at all. In another flat layer of information, an entirely different story could be told in an instant, and so they become lost in the immediate story being told in them and "as" them moment to moment. Stepping just a notch back or past the wall of all inclusive information which makes up the whole of their reality, the sight of their own hands before them and a sense of depth like the depth of a video game which should have given them a clue, is nothing except what is not like what they are, the opposite of all this information and appearance and stuff, and it is generating the whole of their illusion and the whole of their impression that they even have a mind, which is nothing more than a painted thing painted in a frame and gone and then a new frame.

That is why we, for all our talk, are not the truly living and thinking ones we appear to be, but that is the impression produced like pictures in a flip book that when flipped through appear animated and active through the appearance of change.

I don't believe anyone on just about any website or much of the world has much of an understanding or much of a religion, and much of their worship and meditations and thoughts seem misdirected.

There should be no blind faith involved, no confidence for the sake of confidence, no boldness, but a strict reasoning which makes every thing clear and sharply detailed and explained without any holes or escapes.

Now, in asking people about such things, I've found even clear reasoning is not sufficient though to experience the true fruits and joys of knowing Mitra precisely, but what is needed over this is interaction and clear response with real and undoubtable, improbable, and totally powerful results made of information, real experiences with real objects and real dialogue and near impossible predictive speech and intelligence and coherence involved. Stories like that are at the bottom of my "Miracup(s)" document, but what those experiences are credited to and why specifically is an extremely important first factor, since without that, and just experiencing things, one would be lost as to what is doing it and why it can not or is never anything else.

That even gives me the thought that without the proper preliminary understanding, the God and the God's activities and clear communications remain totally concealed because if they were to be apprehended the people would misunderstand and give credit falsely to their erroneous conceptions they have become cursed to serve and feed wastefully and towards no improvement for their conditions inside and which they sense around them. "
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
But today i fear, i wasted a lot of time in my life if what i've learned about God is true.
Not that I am not grateful that i discovered it, but it is a scary thought to suddenly understand how blind you were in the past and how many wrong decision i could have avoided if i've learned God a few years earlier.

So to overcome that fear, i would love someone to prove me wrong and demonstrate a reality where God is not part of.
Are you really afraid of this? It seems unlikely to me, just a hunch.

But if this is an honest concern, maybe keep this in mind?

The present depends on the past. Nothing has been wasted :)
 

taykair

Active Member
I'm no expert on all this "falsifiable science" vs. "non-falsifiable mysticism" stuff, so I won't get into all that. However, I was wondering about the statement you made, since I've seen this statement (or ones like it) elsewhere.

If you're adopting a claim, such as "God exists," the onus is on you to demonstrate it's true, not for others to demonstrate it's false.
Let's say that I am a believer and you are not. (I know that at least half that sentence isn't true, but let's forget about that for now.) You know as well as I do that your requirement for proof doesn't obligate me in any way to provide it -- any more than my claims require you to refute them.

What I am saying is -- and I'm sure this does not apply in your case, so don't get miffed -- if the truth about a matter is really what you are seeking, then you will continue to seek it, with or without my help. If all you seek is an argument, then one of the easiest ways to accomplish this would be to demand proof from me so that, when I present it to you, you will then have something to dispute.
 

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
Hey Segev,

If you're adopting a claim, such as "God exists," the onus is on you to demonstrate it's true, not for others to demonstrate it's false.

So perhaps you could start by telling us which God you're referring to or how you define God, and what has convinced you he/she/it exists?
That's a great question.
I cannot really define God.
I can tell you for a fact what God is not if that helps :)
It is not a character, not an old man in the skies ;)
It is not a jealous or angry being.

You can think of God as a sum of all things.
This is pretty much the best way to "define" God.

As for what convinced me, is the simple fact that once I opened up my eyes, i discovered how things work.
It was not a new discovery, i assume most people know how things work.

It started with small things like the impact my actions have on others.
Once I started taking notice of my decisions, i realized that there are consequences.
I am not talking about "legal" consequences, rather genuine, "natural" consequences.
Nature is an interesting concept.
We all agree there is a natural way of things to behave.
The earth rotates the sun that rotates the earth. The moon rotates the earth that rotates the moon.
Gravity, Time, Life... everything works in a predictable way.

I then realized that for things to be predictable, there must be a pattern.
This pattern could either be chaotic or have some kind of a guiding principle that "holds" everything in its place.

From there, the more i studied science, the more i could understand things i could not.
Oddly enough, our science , not that it does not disprove God, rather proves it more and more each passing day.

As an atheist, i used to think that it is idiotic to call things God, but at the sum of it, it all comes down to the same things.
There are very few rules that drives our reality in motion.
 

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
I am afraid that's a pretty vague concept to even get things started.
It is a bit vague because it is hard to write things that relate to such matters.
You can maybe give me a pointer to what will make things more clear for you :)
 

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
The first step is already taken :)
But honestly, the one who must find the answer you looking for, is you self. No matter how much I or others here speak about our experience with God or other heavenly beings. It come down to your own seach within you :)
You already have the answers within you, you just have to find it ( look behind your doubt). Only when you open up to the wisdom you already have will you get the answer to your spiritual Quest:)

But dont be afraid to ask questions when you feel stuck.
I think i might have confused my intensions.
I am 100% precent sure, without a shred of a doubt there is a God :)
I learn it every passing day, and every day it SCARES me to realize how much i have missed.
I am not speaking of angels and ghosts or energies and spiritual auras or whatever.
 

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
You want an excuse not to believe in God because it scares you?
Not quite.
I want to see if i am misleading my self.
I have discovered so many things in the past few months.
I don't believe things too easily.
I will not trust anyone's word without proper evidence.
And yes, It scares me to find to much truth in places i've once thought to be idiotic.
So as i am used to, I am looking for people to shout out why it might be that i am wrong.
Thats the only way i can really be sure ;)
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I've been an atheist for some time.
Quite a long time.
I had good life.
I still do :)
But today i fear, i wasted a lot of time in my life if what i've learned about God is true.
Not that I am not grateful that i discovered it, but it is a scary thought to suddenly understand how blind you were in the past and how many wrong decision i could have avoided if i've learned God a few years earlier.

So to overcome that fear, i would love someone to prove me wrong and demonstrate a reality where God is not part of.
Not the "angles and demons" God. rather God.
The one thing we all fail to understand until things suddenly "click".
This is really an odd request.

My thought is why be so hung up about the past? Worry about the present and future and treat the past as a learning experience.

What is there about the past that is so bothering? Do you not think the universe is understanding?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I think i might have confused my intensions.
I am 100% precent sure, without a shred of a doubt there is a God :)
I learn it every passing day, and every day it SCARES me to realize how much i have missed.
I am not speaking of angels and ghosts or energies and spiritual auras or whatever.
I think we all been there :) to me it was more about realizing how little i knew :) but it is never to late to begin :) you can still practice spiritual life if that is what you truly want :)
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
I've been an atheist for some time.
Quite a long time.
I had good life.
I still do :)
But today i fear, i wasted a lot of time in my life if what i've learned about God is true.
Not that I am not grateful that i discovered it, but it is a scary thought to suddenly understand how blind you were in the past and how many wrong decision i could have avoided if i've learned God a few years earlier.

So to overcome that fear, i would love someone to prove me wrong and demonstrate a reality where God is not part of.
Not the "angles and demons" God. rather God.
The one thing we all fail to understand until things suddenly "click".
What did you learn? I am not able to remember your previous threads. I'm sorry about that. I remember your avatar, but I believe some time has passed since I read a post by you.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
That's a great question.
I cannot really define God.
I can tell you for a fact what God is not if that helps :)
It is not a character, not an old man in the skies ;)
It is not a jealous or angry being.

You can think of God as a sum of all things.
This is pretty much the best way to "define" God.

As for what convinced me, is the simple fact that once I opened up my eyes, i discovered how things work.
It was not a new discovery, i assume most people know how things work.

It started with small things like the impact my actions have on others.
Once I started taking notice of my decisions, i realized that there are consequences.
I am not talking about "legal" consequences, rather genuine, "natural" consequences.
Nature is an interesting concept.
We all agree there is a natural way of things to behave.
The earth rotates the sun that rotates the earth. The moon rotates the earth that rotates the moon.
Gravity, Time, Life... everything works in a predictable way.

I then realized that for things to be predictable, there must be a pattern.
This pattern could either be chaotic or have some kind of a guiding principle that "holds" everything in its place.

From there, the more i studied science, the more i could understand things i could not.
Oddly enough, our science , not that it does not disprove God, rather proves it more and more each passing day.

As an atheist, i used to think that it is idiotic to call things God, but at the sum of it, it all comes down to the same things.
There are very few rules that drives our reality in motion.

This basically sounds like pantheism.

Pantheism - Wikipedia

Pantheism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
 
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