Jesus Said "It Is Finished"

Nova2216 said:

(Heb 11) describes the kind of faith which saves. It includes works the Lord commanded men to do.

In (Jn 6:28,29) they asked -

What shall we do?

The Lord called belief a work.

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.


What does (Acts 2:40) mean?

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

What does (1Peter 1:22) mean?

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth

Once again, If Jesus done it all then there is no need to believe.


Thanks

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No, pay attention. (John 6:29) "...This is the work of God, that ye believe...." The work of God. Not your work.

Jesus did do it all. All is that is left is for you to believe. And, as I said, that is not of you either. So, don't pat yourself on the back for 'doing' a good thing.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Nova2216 said:

In (John 19:30) Jesus said "it is finished".

Some claim this means man need not do anything to be saved, but then they go on to say you must believe.

Why do I need to believe if Jesus done it all on the cross?

(Jn.19:30) When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


Please notice that belief is a work according to (Jn. 6:28,29)..

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.


Friends, belief is a work. That means all those who teach one must believe to be saved is teaching they must do something in order to be saved.


That is not salvation by grace alone.



Thanks

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So what did Jesus mean when he said "It is finished." He was stating that he had fulfilled all of the prophecies of the Messiah while he was to be on earth. The last would be to die. With his perfect mind which no doubt could memorize perfectly every scripture, and with God's holy spirit active on him and his intimate knowledge of scripture he knew how each and every one was to be fulfilled in him. So right before he gave up his life he was able to say "it is finished." He had completed his task. It was done.

On the night before his death he prayed to Jehovah this way:

"I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do."-John 17:4.

Nova2216 said:

In (John 19:30) Jesus said "it is finished".

Some claim this means man need not do anything to be saved, but then they go on to say you must believe.

Why do I need to believe if Jesus done it all on the cross?

(Jn.19:30) When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


Please notice that belief is a work according to (Jn. 6:28,29)..

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.


Friends, belief is a work. That means all those who teach one must believe to be saved is teaching they must do something in order to be saved.


That is not salvation by grace alone.



Thanks

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We are saved by faith through Grace because we are all sinners. “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8)
People misinterpret this as Faith alone and works do not matter. This is false teaching based on the following:
1. Paul was talking to the Judaizers who wanted to keep the old ceremonial laws of Moses. The old laws fall in the Ole Covenant, which was replaced by that of Christ.
2. The words "Works of the Law" are found in only two places and nothing more. Romans and the Dead Sea Scrolls. In fact, the Dead Sea Scrolls define Faith alone exactly as St Thomas Aquinas does as "Ceremonial Law". In a letter from the Essenes to the Pharisees, the former told the Pharisees that works of the law will not get them into Heaven. They would still need to feed the hungry, tend to the sick, etc.
2. Martin Luther added the word "Alone" it is not in the old text. In Mat 12:36-37 where Jesus Himself said "By your words, you will be justified and by your words, you will be condemned". Words here are actual works.
3. Romans 2:6-7, God “will repay each person according to what they have done."
4. It is indeed false teachings and deception to teach faith alone. Galatians 6:7-8 7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

And many other places.

The Bible should be taken as a whole. One statement cannot define a whole faith. False teachings can cause division. Not all read the Bible and not everyone has an open mind. Satan tries to divide that is why we have over 30,000 denominations. Jesus said " John 17:21 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me." The denominations are divisions that started in the 1500's and continue to this day.

Good-Ole-Rebel said:

I don't believe I said that was wrong that Jesus died for everyone's sin. He did. Your next question is all important, however. "Why would you have to believe in Jesus to receive this benefit.?"

Jesus died in a 'Federal' sense. One representing all. There are only two men representing the human race in a Federal manner. Adam and Christ. Because Adam sinned, all born of him are sinners. You didn't get to make the decision on your own. You are born that way because your Federal head, Adam, sinned. If you're born of Adam, you're a sinner.

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Leaving aside the point that the idea of original sin is not found in the Garden story, which never mentions sin, original sin, the Fall of Man, the need for a redeemer, and is specific that the reason Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden was to prevent them becoming immortal (Genesis 3:22-23) thus contradicting any notion that death had not previously existed,

and leaving aside that Ezekiel 18 is specific that sin is not inheritable eg 18:20 " The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself",

and leaving aside that the Fall of Man idea isn't found till towards the end of the 2nd century BCE where it occurs among the Jews of Alexandria ─

If Adam sinned, and if Adam's sin is inheritable, and if every human is thus tainted,

and if Jesus' death removed that taint,

then either that removal was successful and removed the taint

or ─ entirely unlike the taint ─ you still, 2000 years later, have to pay to have it removed.

Doesn't that seem outrageously unfair? Unjust? Arbitrary? Manipulative?

Good-Ole-Rebel said:

It doesn't matter if a person is Jew or Gentile. If they have not come by faith to God, then they haven't come and are lost. Today the same is true. Jew or Gentile. If you reject Jesus Christ then you are not saved. You're still in Adam.

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Goodness! So God has been sending his Chosen People to Hell for the same 2000 years!

So much for the Covenant! How can you trust a God who's as unreliable, as wilful, as that?

Nova2216 said:

In (John 19:30) Jesus said "it is finished".

Some claim this means man need not do anything to be saved, but then they go on to say you must believe.

Why do I need to believe if Jesus done it all on the cross?

(Jn.19:30) When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


Please notice that belief is a work according to (Jn. 6:28,29)..

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.


Friends, belief is a work. That means all those who teach one must believe to be saved is teaching they must do something in order to be saved.


That is not salvation by grace alone.



Thanks

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Grace is unmerited favor of God. It's God working in someone's life to save them throughout their whole walk with God. So the thief on the cross can be saved within a few minutes because he repented and trusted Christ. And someone else could live for God for 80 years and be saved by the same grace throughout their life.

Good-Ole-Rebel said:

No, pay attention. (John 6:29) "...This is the work of God, that ye believe...." The work of God. Not your work.

Jesus did do it all. All is that is left is for you to believe. And, as I said, that is not of you either. So, don't pat yourself on the back for 'doing' a good thing.

Good-Ole-Rebel

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Notice the word "works" below.

Joh_5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
Joh_5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
Joh_14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


Actions done in accordance with the word of God is called "works".

1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. 2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, (1Thess.4:1-3).

***

Once again if Jesus done it all man has nothing left to do.

It does not make sense.

In fact it contradicts.


Thanks

I have learned that (Ezekiel 18:20) teaches man is not born in sin.

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (Ezekiel 18:20)

blü 2 said:

Leaving aside the point that the idea of original sin is not found in the Garden story, which never mentions sin, original sin, the Fall of Man, the need for a redeemer, and is specific that the reason Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden was to prevent them becoming immortal (Genesis 3:22-23) thus contradicting any notion that death had not previously existed,

and leaving aside that Ezekiel 18 is specific that sin is not inheritable eg 18:20 " The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself",

and leaving aside that the Fall of Man idea isn't found till towards the end of the 2nd century BCE where it occurs among the Jews of Alexandria ─

If Adam sinned, and if Adam's sin is inheritable, and if every human is thus tainted,

and if Jesus' death removed that taint,

then either that removal was successful and removed the taint

or ─ entirely unlike the taint ─ you still, 2000 years later, have to pay to have it removed.

Doesn't that seem outrageously unfair? Unjust? Arbitrary? Manipulative?
Goodness! So God has been sending his Chosen People to Hell for the same 2000 years!

So much for the Covenant! How can you trust a God who's as unreliable, as wilful, as that?

Click to expand...

Yes, every human is a sinner due to Adam's sin. This is so by 'Federal Representation'. The one representing all Adam's race. The First Adam.

Because it is accomplished through Federal Representation, the one for all, then salvation or deliverance, or whatever you want to call it, from that sin, can be accomplished also through Federal Representation. And so it is in the Last Adam, Christ.

Understand it must done through this Federal method. Jesus would only die one time. His substitutionary sacrifice was one sacrifice. If it was not as a Federal Representative, then His sacrifice could only account for one person. But if it is done through this Federal method, then one has to enter that new race of the redeemed. And the entrance is faith in that Savior.

Thus Jesus did not 'remove', as you say, sin from Adams race. All of Adam's race are still sinners. Jesus became the Head of a new race and paid the price for sin, so that race is a redeemed race.

I'm not going to question God's method. What ever He does, He does so in accordance to His righteous character being satisfied. And in the end, that is what counts.

Just because one is born an Israelite, doesn't make them a child of God. That race is the chosen race in that it is that race from whom God works this salvation through. In other words, take an Israelite in Egypt in the days of the Exodus. Say he doesn't believe none of this 'God stuff' that Moses has come preaching. Say, the night of the Passover he tells his family, we arn't doing all this hocus pocus bull with the blood on the doorposts. Would he have lost his first born? You bet he would.

I don't know what you mean, 'so much for the covenant'.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Nova2216 said:

Notice the word "works" below.

Joh_5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
Joh_5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
Joh_14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


Actions done in accordance with the word of God is called "works".

1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. 2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, (1Thess.4:1-3).

***

Once again if Jesus done it all man has nothing left to do.

It does not make sense.

In fact it contradicts.


Thanks

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Read post (13) again. I explained that there are works the believer does as he walks in that salvation which is alone the work of God. These works contribute nothing to the finished work of God.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Eyes to See said:

On the night before his death he prayed to Jehovah this way:

"I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do."-John 17:4.

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If Jesus has finished His work, why do Christians believe Jesus is going to return to earth, to play golf?

Good-Ole-Rebel said:

It is interesting that you take the verses (John 6:28-29) to prove we must work for our salvation. Yet, those verses are saying just the opposite of that. Jesus had just said in (6:27) to "Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life...." To which they asked, "...What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?" Jesus then said, "...This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

You enter into God's work. You believe. Jesus did not say 'here is your work to do'. Jesus is making sure they understand, it is not your work that obtains the salvation.

When Christ said, 'It is finished', He was declaring that that which was necessary to accomplish the salvation, that work of God, was finished. No believer did help or has ever helped God out in getting that done. That was and is His work to do.

Belief is not a work. Just because it is something you exercise does not make it a work. You're not helping God out when you believe. Belief or faith is the key that causes you to enter into eternal salvation. And do not fool yourself that you deserve some credit for your faith. You do not. Even that is God's gift to you. (Eph. 2:8-9) So, you believe? Rejoice that God has gifted you with that.

I know. I hear the swords being unsheathed already concerning works and the book of (James) etc. etc. But all that is after the fact of our salvation being accomplished by God. We then walk in that salvation whereby works play a role. But we can do that because we walk in the completed work of God. And none of our works adds anything to God's completed work.

You describe a 'works based' salvation. Thus you can lose your salvation.

I describe a 'faith based' salvation. Thus you cannot lose it.

Good-Ole-Rebel

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It sounds like the verses below is telling man he "must do" something to be saved.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. (Acts 2:40)

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth. (1Peter 1:22,23)

Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;... (Mark 16:15,16)

Jesus told Paul where to go to learn how to be saved. (Acts 9) (Acts 22:16).

Paul had to go to Damascus, go to the street called Straight, He had to go to Judas house and speak with Ananias.

Ananias tells Paul to -

#1. Arise
#2. Be Baptized
#3. Wash Away Your Sins
#4. Calling On The Lord

When was Paul's sins washed away?

---> Before or After Baptism?


One cannot be saved while still living in his sins (Isa. 59:1,2).

2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.



Can you show me a verse which states sins are forgiven at the point of Belief?



Thanks

Good-Ole-Rebel said:

Thus Jesus did not 'remove', as you say, sin from Adams race. All of Adam's race are still sinners. Jesus became the Head of a new race and paid the price for sin, so that race is a redeemed race.

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A new race? The books say he died as a member of Homo sapiens sapiens. And if he died for my sins (as the saying has it) then there's nothing else I need do.

Good-Ole-Rebel said:

I'm not going to question God's method. What ever He does, He does so in accordance to His righteous character being satisfied. And in the end, that is what counts.

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If that's your view, I respect your entitlement to it. It's not a view I can share. In my book everything is open to question, everything is for exploring, testing and, as far as may be, understanding. The bible paints a very unflattering picture of [him] as a violent, arbitrary entity ─ what on earth was the point of wishing sin on the world in the first place? What on earth is the point of sacrificing [his] son to [him]self when whatever it is [he] wanted to do could be accomplished by one snap of those omnipotent fingers?

Good-Ole-Rebel said:

Just because one is born an Israelite, doesn't make them a child of God.

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I think with respect that this is a question better answered by Jews, no? They're the people who, the book makes very clear, God chose. The early Christian church was vastly more successful in converting pagans than Jews. no?

Good-Ole-Rebel said:

I don't know what you mean, 'so much for the covenant'.

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Nova2216 said:

It sounds like the verses below is telling man he "must do" something to be saved.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. (Acts 2:40)

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth. (1Peter 1:22,23)

Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;... (Mark 16:15,16)

Jesus told Paul where to go to learn how to be saved. (Acts 9) (Acts 22:16).

Paul had to go to Damascus, go to the street called Straight, He had to go to Judas house and speak with Ananias.

Ananias tells Paul to -

#1. Arise
#2. Be Baptized
#3. Wash Away Your Sins
#4. Calling On The Lord

When was Paul's sins washed away?

---> Before or After Baptism?


One cannot be saved while still living in his sins (Isa. 59:1,2).

2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.



Can you show me a verse which states sins are forgiven at the point of Belief?



Thanks

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Paul was saved prior to his water and spirit baptism. (Acts 9:5-6) He goes to Ananias to learn what he now must do. As I said, there are works we believers do in our walk of salvation. They do nothing to add to the completed work of God in this salvation.

One verse will not tell the story of 'forgiveness'. The moment of belief results in the person being declared righteous by God through the sacrifice of Christ. All his sins have been paid for at that moment.

Jesus Christ was not 'forgiving' sins with His death on the Cross. He was paying the price for sin. I know, He said 'Father forgive them'. But that was in reference to the ones who were immediately crucifying Him, to avert God's wrath upon them for that deed.

Because He paid the price for sin, He can forgive sin. Now once one is a believer, he will walk in this world. He will find he still sins. We seek forgiveness of those sins. And God will forgive them. But, it may be that He doesn't forgive them. Instead He determines it is too serious and brings judgement upon them. Which means the believer will suffer in some way this judgement.

This doesn't mean the believer has lost his salvation. For Christ has paid for all his sins.

Good-Ole-Rebel

blü 2 said:

A new race? The books say he died as a member of Homo sapiens sapiens. And if he died for my sins (as the saying has it) then there's nothing else I need do.
If that's your view, I respect your entitlement to it. It's not a view I can share. In my book everything is open to question, everything is for exploring, testing and, as far as may be, understanding. The bible paints a very unflattering picture of [him] as a violent, arbitrary entity ─ what on earth was the point of wishing sin on the world in the first place? What on earth is the point of sacrificing [his] son to [him]self when whatever it is [he] wanted to do could be accomplished by one snap of those omnipotent fingers?
I think with respect that this is a question better answered by Jews, no? They're the people who, the book makes very clear, God chose. The early Christian church was vastly more successful in converting pagans than Jews. no?

Genesis 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old the LORD appeared to Abram, and said to him, "I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless. 2 And I will make my covenant between me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly." 3 Then Abram fell on his face; and God said to him, 4 "Behold, my covenant is with you, and you shall be the father of a multitude of nations. 5 No longer shall your name be Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. 6 I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come forth from you. 7 And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. 8 And I will give to you, and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

9 And God said to Abraham, "As for you, you shall keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. 10 This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your descendants after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you.​

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Christ paid the price for sin. Your sins have not been paid for as you reject Jesus Christ. God sees you only in Adam.

Well the same Book that declares Christ died for the sins of the world also declares the need for faith in order to come into this salvation. (John 3:15-18)

The picture the Bible paints is unflattering to you of God. Not me. As to why God has done this in this way, and His purpose, that is a very long discussion.

If you want to depend on the Jews for all the right answers about God and their relationship to Him, then you must equally reject Jesus Christ as they as a people do. In other words, you are going to the 'unbelieving' for answers. Which you would accept anyway as you're unbelieving also.

That is the Abrahamic Covenant. It is still in place and God is faithful to it.

Good-Ole-Rebel

New Testament Faith

Christianity is a system of faith, and in that arrangement the individual who is converted to Christ undergoes that change by his personal belief. God's scheme of human redemption makes salvation contingent upon one's response to His plan.

Page 22

There are a number of words in the New Testament which belong to the same family and are translated faith or belief. It would help tremendously in the understanding of the subject to examine and define these words and observe how they are used in these passages of the word of God. The root word for faith is peitho, and it means "to persuade, or to be persuaded; to confide in, trust." This word is used 55 times in the New Testament. Here are some of the uses: (1) Trust. "He trusted in God" (Matthew 27:43). This is our word for faith. (2) Persuade. "... and am persuaded of the Lord Jesus" (Romans 14:14). (3)Confidence. "We have confidence in the Lord" (II Thessalonians 3:4). (4) Obey. Some seven times this word is translated obey. "As many as obeyed him ..." (Acts 5:36). "Obey them that have the rule over you" (Hebrews 13:17). "That they should not obey the truth" (Galatians 3:1; Romans 2:8; Galatians 5:7; Acts 5:37; James 3:3).

The word obey in these passages is from peitho, the root word for faith. "As many as obeyed him ... as many as were convinced and persuaded by him." The word pistis is a cognate (that is, related by birth; belonging to the same family of words) of peitho, used 244 times in the New Testament, and following is the definition of this word faith by the standard, reputable scholars of the New Testament language.

How the Lexicons Define Faith

Pistis (faith): "Used especially of the faith by which a man embraces Jesus, i.e., a conviction full of joyful trust, that Jesus is the Messiah, the divinely appointed Author of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God, conjoined with obedience to Christ. In faith to give one's self up to" (-Henry William Thayer).

"Acknowledge Jesus as Savior and devote themselves to Him. To believe and embrace what God has made known either through Christ or concerning Christ ... Believe my word and their testimony that they are good and and must be followed. Believe in the Son and accept what His name proclaims Him to be (John 3:23). Recognition and acceptance of Christ's teaching. ...Full confidence ..." (-Arndt & Gingrich).


A Reply To A Denominational Preacher

A Reply to a Denominational Preacher

Good-Ole-Rebel said:

Paul was saved prior to his water and spirit baptism. (Acts 9:5-6) He goes to Ananias to learn what he now must do.

Good-Ole-Rebel

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You must prove your point above to me.

21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1Thess.5:21).

I read in (Acts 9:9) three days after leaving Jesus on the road Paul is told how to remove his sins. So all the way to see Ananias Paul was still in his sins.


Can one be saved and still be in his sins?

Absolutely Not!!! (Isa.59:1,2)


(2Cor. 4:7) cannot be overlooked by Jesus.

7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

This Treasure is the gospel

There are Heavenly Vessels and there are Earthly vessels.

Heavenly Vessels = God / Christ The Son / Holy Spirit

Earthly Vessels = Men

God has ordained that men teach men (2Tim. 2:2) (Mark 16:15,16) (Mt. 28:18-20).

B/c of (2Cor.4:7) Jesus could not tell Paul what to do to be saved on the road. He sent Paul to an earthly vessel which could and would teach him how to be saved. Some three days later according to (Acts 9:9).

9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink. (Acts 9:9)



Thanks

Good-Ole-Rebel said:

Christ paid the price for sin. Your sins have not been paid for as you reject Jesus Christ. God sees you only in Adam.

Well the same Book that declares Christ died for the sins of the world also declares the need for faith in order to come into this salvation. (John 3:15-18)

The picture the Bible paints is unflattering to you of God. Not me. As to why God has done this in this way, and His purpose, that is a very long discussion.

If you want to depend on the Jews for all the right answers about God and their relationship to Him, then you must equally reject Jesus Christ as they as a people do. In other words, you are going to the 'unbelieving' for answers. Which you would accept anyway as you're unbelieving also.

That is the Abrahamic Covenant. It is still in place and God is faithful to it.

Click to expand...

I'm simply an onlooker. I was not born with inherited sin, and at the end of my life I'll cease to be.

But thank you for your frank answers. I respect your right to your faith.

Notice the condition of Paul in (Acts 9:9).

9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink. (Acts 9:9)

Does this sound like a man that is saved?

No sir , he is called blind.

Note what (2Cor. 4:4) says.

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

blü 2 said:

I'm simply an onlooker. I was not born with inherited sin, and at the end of my life I'll cease to be.

But thank you for your frank answers. I respect your right to your faith.

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What if you exist after your death?

Nova2216 said:

What if you exist after your death?

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"I" am the product of the biochemical and bioelectrical interactions of my brain and body. Death is the irreversible cessation of those functions of the body and brain which maintain life. When they collapse the system that was me irreversibly ceases to be.

If by some unimaginable process some part of the bioelectrical pattern survives that used to be me, it will be without the hormones and related biochemistry that produce emotions and lead to actions. Nor will it have any body to carry out any such actions nor any sensory organs to perceive its surroundings.

So with no emotions it won't care about anything, with no perceptions it won't perceive anything that it might formerly have cared about, and with no body it will have no power of action anyway. That's not a situation I'd choose to be in, even though if I were I wouldn't care.