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Agnosticism is debunked using advanced methods of Science

Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
@questfortruth this is not a judgment of you as a person, or your view. But even i am far from understanding science or the religions fully, i must admit i find your answers and posting to be very confusing. To me ( i could be wrong) it seems like you lost touch with reality. And that you at the moment searching blindly without wanting help from others to get you back on track.
I do not want you to be fully lost, but maybe a clue to you would be when no other scientists, university or publisher dont want to touch your work. Maybe that is a clue that some of your idea, research and proof is not what you think it is.
 
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questfortruth

questfortruth

Well-Known Member
Israel Khan said:
Argumentum ad populum, another logical fallacy on your part. The problem with this logical fallacy is that it fluctuates because popular opinion changes all the time.
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Then my idea is to have reason to change own mind; not necessarily the consensus of the society. Other words, because some person is a believer in Jesus, he shall not change the mind without sufficient reason.

Amanaki said:
@questfortruth this is not a judgment of you as a person, or your view. But even i am far from understanding science or the religions fully, i must admit i find your answers and posting to be very confusing. To me ( i could be wrong) it seems like you lost touch with reality. And that you at the moment searching blindly without wanting help from others to get you back on track.
I do not want you to be fully lost, but maybe a clue to you would be when no other scientists, university or publisher dont want to touch your work. Maybe that is a clue that some of your idea, research and proof is not what you think it is.
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\subsection{Motivation of this study}
Everyone has an opinion. But can personal opinion be of use in Scientific Endeavour?
In the best case scenario, which was perhaps during Albert Einstein's live time, the journals
really read the articles of the authors trying to demonstrate them their fatal mistake.
Then there could be a productive discussion between three authorities: the reviewers, the
editor, and the author (is better for everyone to be informed, as each of the parties can read the article).

Besides logic, the scientific community always uses feelings
(in my experience), but
feelings can be positive or negative, as there are two options in the realm of feelings:
scepticism or trust. I follow my ``guiding star'' in a way that I must be convinced (by me or others) if I have made a mistake. This mistake must be found, and I must be convinced
that it is a mistake. This principle is my guiding star. Some journals have rejected
some of my papers without even trying to convince me of having done mistakes.
There is a historical case about Einstein. After his publication of the logical
debunkment of Sir Newton's absolute space and absolute time, too many scientists
were not accepting his debunkment. Therefore, the unexplainable feeling of
scepticism has severely slowed down the ``train'' of science for as long as
17 years (and the greatest Theory of Relativity has not been renowned by a
Nobel Prize)!~\cite{poorEinstein} Described suffering of Prof.~Einstein indicates, that
``scientific scepticism'' is nothing more than a negative emotion. But science could be
conducted in positive way rather than negative. How exactly? If the mind of the reader
would see that the logic of the paper seems not to be violated, the mind would trust this
conclusion and accept the paper.

Humankind shows a terrible conflict between feelings and
mind. Muting the mind in favour of emotions is simply called
madness (in my opinion), but conflict between scientific mind and feeling of
beauty is discussed in this book:~\cite{sabrine}.
 
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Samael_Khan

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
questfortruth said:
Then my idea is to have reason to change own mind; not necessarily the consensus of the society. Other words, because some person is a believer in Jesus, he shall not change the mind without sufficient reason.
Click to expand...

Yes, consensus of society means very little if one looks at the basis of their reasoning and finds it flawed.

We aren't talking about believing in Jesus here, which one doesn't need reason for, and isn't a truth statement.

The truth statement, which is flawed, is: God exists

The belief statement, which is opinion, is : I believe God exists.

I have no problem with belief statements but I do have a problem with truth statements which aren't backed up by evidence.
 
TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
questfortruth said:
One can prove, that the aliens are satan's army of sinful creatures
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One can't even prove that there is anything there in the stories. Let alone aliens. Let alone demons.

You should take a step back and apply some critical thinking to the nonsense you spew out over these forums.


The way of proving: the Fermi Paradox tells us, that there are no traces of life in the cosmos.
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This is akin to scooping a cup of water from the ocean, seeing no fish in the cup and then asserting "there are no fish in the ocean".


All activity of UFO is happening at Earth and solar system.
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Do you understand what the "U" in "UFO" stands for?

All activity of UFO's, where the "U"-part has been dealed with, turned out to be nothing special at all: optical illusions, simple airplanes, satelites, faulty camera lenses, photoshop frauds, etc.



It is our tempting devils then
Click to expand...

No. It's just humans being mistaken, hallucinating or lying.


The paranormal activity in the solar system is proof for devils,
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There is no such activity.
Kind of hard for the non-existing to be proof of anything.


the proof for aliens would be an observation of them or their activity at distant star-systems and galaxies. Hereby the possibility, that aliens come from parallel dimension do not cancel the fact, that the beings are observed only at solar system; thus they are devils by definition. It is better to use Occam's or Hitchens razor not against Loving God, but rather against aliens: because there is no extraordinary evidence for them, they are believed to be absent.
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Neither razor says that "because there is no evidence, they are believed to be not there".

You should inform yourself.

Hitchens razor says that what is asserted without evidence, can be rejected without evidence.
It does NOT say that the claim is therefor proven false, or the opposite claim therefor proven true.

If the claim is "aliens exist" and there is no evidence, the claim "aliens exist" is rejected.
That DOES NOT MEAN that the claim "there are NO aliens" is therefor to be accepted.

That's a seperate claim which has its own burden of proof. This claim isn't addressed when dealing with the opposite claim.


All in all, you should learn how the burden of proof works.
And how proof works in general.

Because it seems like you don't understand either.
 
TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
questfortruth said:
A definition is not necessarily a global thing, my definitions are active only within my paper and current conversation. In another my paper would be different definitions for "devil", "alien".
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Then your definitions are useless. And by extension, also the arguments in which you use them as premises or assumptions.
 
questfortruth

questfortruth

Well-Known Member
TagliatelliMonster said:
Neither razor says that "because there is no evidence, they are believed to be not there".

You should inform yourself.

Hitchens razor says that what is asserted without evidence, can be rejected without evidence.
It does NOT say that the claim is therefor proven false, or the opposite claim therefor proven true.

If the claim is "aliens exist" and there is no evidence, the claim "aliens exist" is rejected.
That DOES NOT MEAN that the claim "there are NO aliens" is therefor to be accepted.
.
Click to expand...
The razors mean, that we can not waste our time to think about aliens, even if they do exist in far edge of the Universe.
 
gnostic

gnostic

The Lost One
@questfortruth

You have taken the thread, very off-field.

What does any of the aliens, ET and UFO have to do with agnosticism?

Do I think or believe that there are life in other planets?

I don’t know, but since there are unknown billions of planets and moons out there, the probability are “likely”. But there are no way to actually investigate these planets and moons from other star systems of this galaxy or from other galaxies.

The most distant objects that NASA have sent out in space, Voyager 1 & Voyager 2, both launched in 1977, have passed the HELIOPAUSE, in 2012, which is boundary that separate our Solar System’s heliosphere and interstellar space, meaning the distance of the sun’s stellar winds can travel. Communication are still possible, but around 2025 to 2030, it should lose power on both crafts by then.

What the points in all this, you may ask...

Well, as of this year, Voyager 1 has been in operation for 42 years, and have traveled 148 AU, or about 22 billion km. (Note that 1 light-year is equal to 63,241 astronomical units (AU) or less than 9.5 trillion km).

42 years and it is still in the Kupier belt, and haven’t yet travel 1 light year. Although neither vessels are heading towards any star, the closest star to the Solar System, is the Proxima Centauri at 4.2 light years. Voyager 1 will take over 81 thousand years to travel such distance.

Voyager 1 is current traveling at speed of 15.436 km/s (34,530 mph), which is flying faster than any aircraft , but no where near the speed of light.

So if you or anyone else think that aliens from another planet have been to Earth, abducting people, you are all quite delusional. Alien abductions and alien invasions are all fictions, those who truly believe in them, are delusional, while others want to make money out of it, are either frauds or simply work of fiction, hence for sci-fi novels, comics, tv shows or movies.

Space travel approaching the speed of light and interstellar space or intergalactic space, is only sci-fi fantasy.
 
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questfortruth

questfortruth

Well-Known Member
gnostic said:
a) But there are no way to actually investigate these planets and moons from other star systems of this galaxy or from other galaxies.

b) Space travel approaching the speed of light and interstellar space or intergalactic space, is only sci-fi fantasy.
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a) The NASA can spot level two and higher Civilization [by Dr. Kaku classification] by observing Mindfull Activity in Cosmos through powerfull telescopes, e.g. exploration by aliens of natural resorces, wars. Moreover, NASA can spot level one and level zero Civilization by determination the bio-gases in atmosphere of the Earth-like planets.

b) I am trying to publish paper which allows to explore the stars and planets directly, do you want viXra link?
 
TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
questfortruth said:
They are useful for enjoying the current paper. It is like enjoying a film.
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But useless if the goal is to uncover truth and knowledge.

You said that your definitions are "only active within your papers".
This is literally like saying that your definitions are tailored to suit your arguments.

That makes them dishonest and useless. And your arguments in which they are used, along with it.
 
Riders

Riders

Well-Known Member
questfortruth said:
If so, He can not be dismissed. I argue, that any false thing can be shown false [given unlimited research time and resources].



If a god would be false, it can be demonstrated by either:
1. contradiction in his theology,
2. contradiction in nature,
3. inventing god-less model of reality [google "missing antimatter paradox"]
The pagan gods and laws of nature are not in the intersection. Thus, they are not necessary. This holds true the third point [in my vision by Occam's and Hitchen's Razors].


1, Contradiction in his theology, there are so many contradicti9ons in the bible its absurd. The Pagan Gods are not necessary? I beg your pardon, if you believe or don't believe in them early people used a connection to nature and Pagan Gods to explain nature The God of Thunder the Sun God, etc.

They used nature and astrology to point the way and sometimes astrologists were those who studied the sky astronomy and how to tell time and how the seasons changed, they were necessary believe me.
It is wrong and unthankful to God to say because the apostasy violates the principle of sufficient reason: modernists have no reason to murder God of Love&Reason. "God is dead, we have murdered Him" (F.N.) "But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: 'They hated me without reason.'" (John 15:25)
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questfortruth

questfortruth

Well-Known Member
In my opinion:

The idol of science and art in ancient Greece: Apollo. But let's say there is an idol of falling brick from the roof: Alik. Without Alik, the brick would also fall from the roof. Therefore, Occam’s razor gives us reason not to think about Alik at all, even if he exists.
 
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