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God And Homosexuality

Tazarah

Well-Known Member
Jesus said nothing about homosexuality, nor why he loved one of disciples instead of cleaving to a wife (John 19:25 21:7). In contrast, he condemned all remarried divorcees to hell for their adulterous marriages (Mark 10:11-12 Matthew 5:27-30).
And the bible says nothing about female homosexuality but only refers to anal sex of women and men which is described as "vile" and "unseemly" (Romans 1:26-27) and disgusting (Leviticus 18 & 20), as is eating oysters (Leviticus 11).

The law forbids homosexuality, and Jesus taught from the law... and Romans 1:26-27 says nothing about anal sex, it's speaking about homosexuality. You should check out some different translations if you don't understand the one that you are currently using.
 

Mitty

Active Member
The law forbids homosexuality, and Jesus taught from the law... and Romans 1:26-27 says nothing about anal sex, it's speaking about homosexuality. You should check out some different translations if you don't understand the one that you are currently using.
The bible, however, says nothing at all about female homosexuality or women lying with womankind as with mankind, given that the bible specifically deals with other aspects of female sexuality such as bestiality and adultery, including adultery by ALL remarried divorcees (Leviticus 18 & 20). Romans 1:26-27 is obviously about anal sex of women and men which Paul described as "vile" and "unseemly", and described in Leviticus 18 & 20 as disgusting.

If you believe otherwise, then where does the bible or Romans 1:26-27 say anything about female homosexuality or women with women "working that which is unseemly and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet" from penetrative sex with other women? And where does the bible or Romans 1:26-27 say that anal sex is "the natural use of the woman"? Or do you believe that Paul was describing female genitalia as "vile" and "unseemly"?

And where does Jesus mention anything about homosexuality and why he loved one of his disciples, apart from asking his followers to accept that some men do not marry because they are so born from their mothers' wombs (Matt 19:12)? And afterall David said that his love with Jonathon was more wonderful than with any of his wives or concubines (2Sam 1:26), and David was even his god's begotten son (Psalm 2:7).
 
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TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Your accusation isn't against me, but against God.

No, I'm talking to you.
It was you that said those words. Are you saying that you don't stand behind them, that you don't agree with those words?

It's also illogical:

The Bible is against things that cause harm to their adherents. This includes illicit sexuality (STDs, broken lives, unplanned pregnancy), drug abuse, etc..

So when's the last time a gay couple had an unplanned pregnancy?

:rolleyes:
 

Mitty

Active Member
1 Corinthians 6:9 says that those who abuse themselves with mankind (which is homosexuality) shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus, however, said nothing at all about homosexuality although he condemned all remarried divorcees to hell unless they remain celibate and repent their adulterous marriages and/or cut off their members and throw them away (Mark 10:11-12 Matt 5:27-30).
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Jesus said nothing about homosexuality...

Incorrect. Jesus is God in the Bible (numerous scriptures). As God, Jesus is the one who gave Moses the Leviticus law against gay sexual relations to begin with; and he’s the one who inspires all Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16), including prohibitions against gay sexual relations in Romans 1:26-27 and I Corinthians 6:9-10, etc.

It’s also worth noting that Jesus didn’t mention wife beating or other sins such as pedophilia either, and there are not many folks who would argue he approved of those behaviors. So Jesus was under no obligation to reiterate the moral laws against homosexual sin that already existed, unless there were clarifications to be made.

nor why he loved one of his disciples instead of cleaving to a wife (John 19:25 21:7).

Jesus chose a celibate life. No kudos there for you.

In contrast, he condemned all remarried divorcees to hell for their adulterous marriages (Mark 10:11-12 Matthew 5:27-30).

Not at all. All people have available repentance for sins. If they repent and have Christ as their Savior, they're ok. Otherwise they're lost (Luke 13:3).

And the bible says nothing about female homosexuality but only refers to anal sex of women and men which is described as "vile" and "unseemly" (Romans 1:26-27) and disgusting (Leviticus 18 & 20), as is eating oysters (Leviticus 11).

That's your opinion. Romans 1:26-27 identifies women craving relations with other women as having originated from "shameful lusts". Hardly a virtuous endeavor.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Jesus, however, said nothing at all about homosexuality although he condemned all remarried divorcees to hell unless they remain celibate and repent their adulterous marriages and/or cut off their members and throw them away (Mark 10:11-12 Matt 5:27-30).
the largest percentage of those are found in the bible belt. that is also and unfortunately most of your fundamentalist, evangelical christians too.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Incorrect. Jesus is God in the Bible (numerous scriptures). As God, Jesus is the one who gave Moses the Leviticus law against gay sexual relations to begin with; and he’s the one who inspires all Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16), including prohibitions against gay sexual relations in Romans 1:26-27 and I Corinthians 6:9-10, etc.
the bible doesn't say jesus is God Most High. Just says he's a god like all others. Jesus said you are all gods and quoted from psalms when a group of people threatened to stone him. to be one with god is like being a corpuscle in the body. you're just one of many. or like being an ocean in a drop. yeah you got all the aspects but you ain't the almighty ocean.


Jesus chose a celibate life. No kudos there for you.
the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath. so no he didn't follow the absolute letter of the law because the law isn't that stringent. to love isn't that complicated. i require mercy and not sacrifice. but because of "your" father, you want sacrifice





That's your opinion. Romans 1:26-27 identifies women craving relations with other women as having originated from "shameful lusts". Hardly a virtuous endeavor.




being an anthropolatrist; which is the abomination that causes desolation is a much greater problem. you got to take the beam out of your own eye before you're going to see.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
being an anthropolatrist; which is the abomination that causes desolation is a much greater problem.

Ironic, isn't it?
The First Commandment Moses was given was "Have no other God besides Me!"

Then Christians come along and deify Jesus, then concoct The Trinity.
They also act surprised that Jewish monotheists rejected that heresy.
Tom
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
The law forbids homosexuality, and Jesus taught from the law... and Romans 1:26-27 says nothing about anal sex, it's speaking about homosexuality. You should check out some different translations if you don't understand the one that you are currently using.


this again is paul, not Jesus for a reason.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
the bible doesn't say jesus is God Most High. Just says he's a god like all others.

Wrong.

1. Jesus existed in the beginning (John 1:1; Philip 2:6; Rev. 19:13; Micah 5:2).
2. He was with God (John 1:1).
3. He is God, the Son (John 1:1; Rom. 9:5; Heb. 1:8, 10; I John 5:20).
4. He is God manifest in the flesh (John 20:28; I Tim. 3:16; Col. 2:9; Acts 20:28; Heb. 1:8).
5. He is God foretold (Isaiah 9:6; Psalm 45:6).
6. He is Immanuel, God with us (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23).
7. He is the true God (I John 5:20 with Titus 2:13; Romans 9:5).
8. He is the great God (Titus 2:13).
9. He is God our Savior (II Peter 1:1).
10. He existed in the form of God before His incarnation and was equal with God the Father (Philippians 2:5-7)
11. He is the only wise God (Jude 25).
12. He is omnipotent over disease. (Matthew 8:1-4; Luke 4:39)
13. He is omnipotent over demons. (Matthew 8:16-17; Luke 4:35)
14. He is omnipotent over nature. ((Matthew 8:26)
15. He is omnipotent over death. (Luke 7:14-15; John 11:25)
16. He is omniscient, knowing the hearts of the Pharisees. (Matthew 12:25; Luke 5:22; 6:8; 7:39-40)
17. He knew the thoughts of the scribes. (Matthew 9:3-4)
18. He knew the history of the Samaritan woman. (John 4:24)
19. He is omnipresent. (Matthew 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; 14:20)
20. He was worshiped as God by the angels (Hebrews 1:6); worshiped as God by the wise men (Matthew 2:2); worshiped as God by the shepherds (Luke 2:15); worshiped as God by a ruler (Matthew 9:18); worshiped as God by Thomas (John 20:28); worshiped as God by the apostles (Matthew 14:33;28:9)
21. He forgives sins. (Mark 2:5)
22. He saves (only God saves). Matthew 18:11; John 10:28).
23. He judges. (John 5:22)
24. Paul, Peter, Jude, James, and John called Him God. (Galatians 2:20; 1 Peter 3:22; Jude 25; James 2:1; I John 5:20; Revelation 1:18; 19:16)
25. He is God’s Son, who was sent to bring us eternal life. (John 3:16)
26. He arose from death in the flesh (John 20:26-28; Luke 24:39-43; I John 4:2-3).
27. One with the Father (John 10:30).

Also, Jesus is Jehovah. Scriptures in the link: Jesus Must be Jehovah

Jesus said you are all gods and quoted from psalms

There's more to that than you are aware of, then.

When the psalmist said "You are gods," in Psalm 82, he was speaking in irony. He was in effect mocking the corrupt judges (many biblical examples) who had become corrupt in their dealings with men. What follows from the 82nd Psalm was this, though: "I have called you 'gods,' but in fact you will die like the men that you really are." Obviously then, they weren't being alluded to as real gods due to the clarification that followed.

With this in mind, it is now clear that when Jesus alluded to this psalm in John chapter 10, He was simply illustrating that what the Israelite judges were called in irony and mockery, Jesus is in reality.
 

Mitty

Active Member
Incorrect. Jesus is God in the Bible (numerous scriptures). As God, Jesus is the one who gave Moses the Leviticus law against gay sexual relations to begin with; and he’s the one who inspires all Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16), including prohibitions against gay sexual relations in Romans 1:26-27 and I Corinthians 6:9-10, etc.
Nonsense. Jesus didn't claim to be a god or even to be without sin (Mark 10:18), given that he even broke the ten commandments (Ex 20:8-12) by working on the Sabbath and dishonouring his parents. He only claimed to be a prophet even though his mother and his family didn't believe him (Matt 13:55-8 John 7:15) and presumably why he ignored them (Matt 12:46-50). And Jesus unsuccessfully appealed for help from a god when he was being executed for sedition by the Romans and was mocked as "The King of the Jews", which is hardly a god-like trait.
It’s also worth noting that Jesus didn’t mention wife beating or other sins such as pedophilia either, and there are not many folks who would argue he approved of those behaviors. So Jesus was under no obligation to reiterate the moral laws against homosexual sin that already existed, unless there were clarifications to be made.
That's just a silly obfuscation that wouldn't even convince my cat, and doesn't change the fact that the bible says nothing about female homosexuality since they do not have anal sex as described in Romans 1:26-27 for heterosexual women and as described in Leviticus 18 & 20.

Jesus chose a celibate life. No kudos there for you.
Is that why he loved one of his disciples instead of cleaving to a woman and why many celibate clergy are homosexuals, given that Jesus was over 30 years old before he decided to change his occupation and lifestyle from being a carpenter?

Not at all. All people have available repentance for sins. If they repent and have Christ as their Savior, they're ok. Otherwise they're lost (Luke 13:3).
So how on Earth can remarried divorcees repent for their adulterous marriages unless they remain celibate and/or cut off their members and throw them away (Matt 5:27-30)? Or is that just wishful thinking, given that adultery by ALL remarried divorcees is one of the ten commandments whereas anal sex is only a minor commandment, even though biblical morality (including the ten commandments) is obviously just man-made and changes as society changes, which is why it wasn't morally wrong for Abraham to have a sexual relationship with his sister Sarah and commit adultery with Hagar, or for Abraham to kill his son as a blood sacrifice, or for Cain(an) to kill his brother Abel or for Noah's father to kill a young man who injured him (Gen 4) given that the ten commandments etc did not apply to them. Nor did it apply to Lot when he sexually assaulted his daughters after he mocked his sons-in-law and tried to pimp their future wives when they wanted "to know" what the two blokes were up to in Lot's house (Gen 19).

That's your opinion. Romans 1:26-27 identifies women craving relations with other women as having originated from "shameful lusts". Hardly a virtuous endeavor.
So what did Paul describe as "vile" and "unseemly" if you believe that he wasn't referring to anal sex of women and men and that anal sex is the "natural use of the woman"? Do you think that Paul was referring to men playing tiddly winks or were the men and women piggy-backing each other, given that eating pigs is disgusting (Lev 11), like "men lying with mankind as with womankind" (Lev 18 & 20)?

And where oh where does Romans 1:26-27 say anything about "women craving relations with other women" or women with women "working that which is unseemly", or did you just make that up?
 
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Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Wrong.

1. Jesus existed in the beginning (John 1:1; Philip 2:6; Rev. 19:13; Micah 5:2).
this person didn't exist prior to his birth. a spirit does but then so does yours and so does mine.

i'm not going to bother with the rest of the nonsense you posted.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Nonsense. Jesus didn't claim to be a god or even to be without sin (Mark 10:18), given that he even broke the ten commandments (Ex 20:8-12) by working on the Sabbath and dishonouring his parents.

Nonsense. I've already documented in my prior post the scriptures confirming the deity of Jesus. Jesus also taught it was good to do good works on the Sabbath.

Matthew 12:10-13
And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?"—that they might accuse Him. Then He said to them, "What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath." Then He said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." And he stretched it out, and it was restored as whole as the other.

Denying the deity of Jesus Christ is a heresy. It's the stuff of cults like the Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.

No offense to you personally, but I'm not going to spend any more time with the heresies you present.
 

Mitty

Active Member
Nonsense. I've already documented in my prior post the scriptures confirming the deity of Jesus. Jesus also taught it was good to do good works on the Sabbath.

Matthew 12:10-13
And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?"—that they might accuse Him. Then He said to them, "What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath." Then He said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." And he stretched it out, and it was restored as whole as the other.

Denying the deity of Jesus Christ is a heresy. It's the stuff of cults like the Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.

No offense to you personally, but I'm not going to spend any more time with the heresies you present.
That's just words in a book. But do you have any unequivocal evidence to support your claim, since none of that changes the fact that Jesus didn't claim to be a god or to be without sin (Mark 10:18), nor that his mother and his family didn't believe that he was a prophet either (Matt 13:55-58 John 7:5).

And afterall, Jesus did not deny that he was a boozer (Matt 11:19), which is why he performed a conjuring trick with some previously hidden wine containers in order to irresponsibly make some well drunk boozers even drunker instead of responsibly suggesting they drink the water instead to sober up (John 2:1-10).
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
That's just words in a book. But do you have any unequivocal evidence to support your claim, since none of that changes the fact that Jesus didn't claim to be a god or to be without sin (Mark 10:18), nor that his mother and his family didn't believe that he was a prophet either (Matt 13:55-58 John 7:5).

And afterall, Jesus did not deny that he was a boozer (Matt 11:19), which is why he performed a conjuring trick with some previously hidden wine containers in order to irresponsibly make some well drunk boozers even drunker instead of responsibly suggesting they drink the water instead to sober up (John 2:1-10).

Flush. Have a nice life.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Ironic, isn't it?
The First Commandment Moses was given was "Have no other God besides Me!"

Then Christians come along and deify Jesus, then concoct The Trinity.
They also act surprised that Jewish monotheists rejected that heresy.
Tom

Jesus is the God in the Burning Bush. It's all laid out in the following link / article: Angel of the LORD | Precept Austin

In addition, the Old Testament scriptures and ancient Jews themselves speak about a Triune-like God / and a divine Messiah. The Deity of Messiah in the Tenach and other Jewish Writings

Plurality in Personal Pronouns

Plurality in personal pronouns (such as "us" and "our") when used in reference to the Lord, lends scriptural evidence for the plurality of God. A good case in point is Genesis 1:26:

"Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness,
and let him have dominion over the fist of the sea, and over the birds
of the air, and over the livestock, and over all the earth."

Here, we see a conversation that is taking place prior to the creation of man. Who is this person or persons with whom God is conversing? First, this 'person' or 'persons' is able to communicate with God in His own realm of timeless eternity. Because man had not yet been created, He was not speaking to someone of earthly intelligence, but someone in the heavenly, supernatural and eternal realm.

Secondly, this person or persons with whom God is communicating apparently has the same kind of creative ability as God ("Let us make"). This clearly implies a cooperative effort between God (Elohim - plural) and the person or person with whom God is speaking.

And finally, the person or persons with whom God is speaking is comparable, or identical, with God ("Let us make man in our image, after our likeness").

When confronted with this passage, skeptics often claim that God is speaking with angels. However, this explanation fails to address a number of problems. First, there is no indication found anywhere in the Bible that says angels can create life. Secondly, nowhere is it indicated that angels were ever made in the image and likeness of God. And finally, there is no indication from scripture that mankind was ever made in the likeness of angels.

Just one more example. In Genesis chapter 11, God is looking down at man's attempt to build the Tower of Babel to make a name for themselves. In verse 7 God states:

"Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand one another."

Once more, the personal pronoun "us" is used as a reference to God. Note that in verse 11:5 it is "the Lord" that is referred to when "us" is later used ("The Lord came down to see the city").
 

Mitty

Active Member
Jesus is the God in the Burning Bush. It's all laid out in the following link / article: Angel of the LORD | Precept Austin

In addition, the Old Testament scriptures and ancient Jews themselves speak about a Triune-like God / and a divine Messiah. The Deity of Messiah in the Tenach and other Jewish Writings

Plurality in Personal Pronouns

Plurality in personal pronouns (such as "us" and "our") when used in reference to the Lord, lends scriptural evidence for the plurality of God. A good case in point is Genesis 1:26:

"Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness,
and let him have dominion over the fist of the sea, and over the birds
of the air, and over the livestock, and over all the earth."

Here, we see a conversation that is taking place prior to the creation of man. Who is this person or persons with whom God is conversing? First, this 'person' or 'persons' is able to communicate with God in His own realm of timeless eternity. Because man had not yet been created, He was not speaking to someone of earthly intelligence, but someone in the heavenly, supernatural and eternal realm.

Secondly, this person or persons with whom God is communicating apparently has the same kind of creative ability as God ("Let us make"). This clearly implies a cooperative effort between God (Elohim - plural) and the person or person with whom God is speaking.

And finally, the person or persons with whom God is speaking is comparable, or identical, with God ("Let us make man in our image, after our likeness").

When confronted with this passage, skeptics often claim that God is speaking with angels. However, this explanation fails to address a number of problems. First, there is no indication found anywhere in the Bible that says angels can create life. Secondly, nowhere is it indicated that angels were ever made in the image and likeness of God. And finally, there is no indication from scripture that mankind was ever made in the likeness of angels.

Just one more example. In Genesis chapter 11, God is looking down at man's attempt to build the Tower of Babel to make a name for themselves. In verse 7 God states:

"Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand one another."

Once more, the personal pronoun "us" is used as a reference to God. Note that in verse 11:5 it is "the Lord" that is referred to when "us" is later used ("The Lord came down to see the city").
So why didn't Abraham's god give Abraham or his ancestors the ten commandments etc instead of to Moses from a talking bush? Or are the ten commandments etc just man-made given that it wasn't morally wrong for Abraham to have a sexual relationship with his sister Sarah and commit adultery with Hagar, or for Abraham to kill his son as a blood sacrifice or for Cain(an) to kill his brother Abel?

And since Abraham's god was neither an omniscient or omnipresent type of god (Gen 18), was Abraham's god one of the other gods which held a meeting to discuss creating a male person in the image and likeness of the male creator god and creating a female person in the image and likeness of a goddess (Gen 1:25-26), given that there are many biblical gods (Deut 10:17) whose hierarchy is described in Exodus 20:1-3?

Or are those stories just imaginative fantasies?
 
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Tazarah

Well-Known Member
@Mitty @Fool I can see that @Spartan has thoroughly debunked your incorrect views regarding Jesus and his stance on homosexuality. The law strictly forbids homosexuality, and Jesus taught from the law when he walked the earth.

Claiming that the prophets like Paul spoke of things that Christ did not directly speak about will not work either. The bible does not contradict itself and Christ as well as all of the prophets were all on one accord.

2 TIMOTHY 3:16

"16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
 

Mitty

Active Member
I can see that @Spartan has thoroughly debunked your incorrect views regarding Jesus and his stance on homosexuality. The law strictly forbids homosexuality, and Jesus taught from the law when he walked the earth.
Only in your dreams!!! Where do the gospels say anything about homosexuality and why Jesus loved one of his disciples instead of cleaving to a wife?

And in contrast to adultery by ALL remarried divorcees (Mark 10:11-12 Exodus 20:14), which of the ten commandments refers to homosexuality anyway?

Claiming that the prophets like Paul spoke of things that Christ did not directly speak about will not work either. The bible does not contradict itself and Christ as well as all of the prophets were all on one accord.

2 TIMOTHY 3:16

"16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
Anything Paul wrote is irrelevant since he never even met Jesus. And it still doesn't change the fact that the bible says nothing about female homosexuals anyway, since they do not have anal sex which was described for heterosexual women as "vile" and "unseemly" (Romans 1:26-27).
 
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