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I need help with this commandment

SoulTYPE

Well-Known Member
Also another argument can be based on this thread, so I will post it here.

The commandment that states: "Do not steal." Now why is it said (I thin it is also Jesus that said it) that "it is not wrong for a man to steal a loaf of bread for his starving family".

Humbug.

Also "Thou shalt not kill." So is killing a wild beast (urm animal) wrong? Does Jesus/and God enforce vegetarianism? He served dead fish to his 5000. Dead I say. So therefore He should ot make an example of this. If he can feed bread to 5000 people, he hath no need of fish.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
SoulTYPE01 said:
That is the part the priest at church says, AFTER you say the Our Father.
Is this Catholic?

Wow, I get to be surprised and learn something new every day. Life is good. :)
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Deut. 32.8 said:
With Hinduism - a theology about which I am far from conversant - the various deities seem to be viewed as manifestations of the Hindu trinity rather than the competing nobility of some polytheistic confederation.
The way it's been explained to me, it's the other way around. The Hindu trinity of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva are manifestations of the One God. Whereas the devas/gods are realy entities, not manifestations. However, the devas are merely entities, with supernatural powers, due to their suprior good karma. They are not God in the transcendant creator sense. Rather, they are created as well.


Deut. 32.8 said:
I would hesitate to apply terms like 'henotheism' and 'polytheism' to Eastern theology, if only because it seems more likely to confuse than clarify.
Understood, but then that leaves us with no tools to describe them. For example, I teach classes at my local church on eastern religions and these questions come up all the time. Since the prevailing misconception about Hinduism seems still to be that it's polytheistic in the traditional sense, I guess I will continue to call it monothestic, with the appropriate caveats.

Thanks for your response. It was helpful despite what you might think.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
SoulTYPE01 said:
Also "Thou shalt not kill." So is killing a wild beast (urm animal) wrong? Does Jesus/and God enforce vegetarianism? He served dead fish to his 5000. Dead I say. So therefore He should ot make an example of this. If he can feed bread to 5000 people, he hath no need of fish.
It's actually more accurate to translate it as "Thou shalt not murder." And I don't think that the people writing or reading this thought of killing animals as murder. Remember that the God of Israel demanded sacrifices of animal blood poured on the altar and burnt animal flesh. And before that, there was the whole Passover thing with the sheep's blood painted on the doorways. And the sacrifice of the ram instead of Isaac. And God prefered Abel's meat over Cain's veggies. The Hebrew God is not a vegetarian.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
jewscout said:
And really it's technically only for the Jewish people...everyone else is supposed to follow the 7 Laws of Noah.:D
Well THAT would have saved me and my family a lot of grief at my grandpa's funeral! sheesh.

Jewscout, can you remind us what the 7 Laws of Noah are? thnx -lilith
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
lilithu said:
Well THAT would have saved me and my family a lot of grief at my grandpa's funeral! sheesh.

Jewscout, can you remind us what the 7 Laws of Noah are? thnx -lilith
1.Establish courts of justice
2. not to commit blasphemy
3. not to commit idolitry
4. not to commit incest or adultry
5. not to murder
6. not to steal
7. not to eat flesh cut from a still living animal

of course when it comes to "being judged" these laws are not as strenuously placed on the non-jews as it is on the jew. For instance...#3 says don't commit idolitry, but if you've been raised to be pagan and worship idols, G-d isn't going to punish you for what you've been taught your whole life. from what i've read the rules aren't as rigidly enforced, as it were, compared to the 613 commandments Jews are given.
 
There are actually two versions of the Ten Commandments in the Old Testament, the 20th chapter of Exodus and the 5th chapter of Deuteronomy.

The Old Testament wasn’t written down until after King Cyprus released the Hebrew people from exile in Babylon. This was around 565 BC. While in Babylon (present day Iraq) the Hebrew people were exposed to many of their pagan gods and learned to worship them. When the Hebrew Scribes wrote their stories and their so-called history they included the Ten Commandments in which 8 of them came from the Egyptian book of the Dead. The commandments were for the Hebrew people only instructing them that it was okay to worship other Gods as long as none were put before YAHWEH.

Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

De 5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

There were many Gods being worship during that period of time and the Hebrews had fallen away from their foundation of worship. The message was that the Hebrew God had to be 1st and any other God had to be 2nd.

BTW, the story of Moses receiving the Ten Commandments from God on a Mountain never happened.

 

Ronald

Well-Known Member
harold e. rice said:
There are actually two versions of the Ten Commandments in the Old Testament, the 20th chapter of Exodus and the 5th chapter of Deuteronomy.

The Old Testament wasn’t written down until after King Cyprus released the Hebrew people from exile in Babylon. This was around 565 BC. While in Babylon (present day Iraq) the Hebrew people were exposed to many of their pagan gods and learned to worship them. When the Hebrew Scribes wrote their stories and their so-called history they included the Ten Commandments in which 8 of them came from the Egyptian book of the Dead. The commandments were for the Hebrew people only instructing them that it was okay to worship other Gods as long as none were put before YAHWEH.

Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

De 5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

There were many Gods being worship during that period of time and the Hebrews had fallen away from their foundation of worship. The message was that the Hebrew God had to be 1st and any other God had to be 2nd.

BTW, the story of Moses receiving the Ten Commandments from God on a Mountain never happened.

And we shall know this because you were there!!!!!??????? :woohoo:
 

SoulTYPE

Well-Known Member
Rice person could you explain where you have this resource? I am not disbelieving you, but am interested (in your theory about the moses story). If this did not happen what is the true story.

Sorry I rephrase true with "your"
 

t3gah

Well-Known Member
In the days when this commandment was laid down God really took action against those who disobeyed the command. Peoples and nations were killed at the hands of God's choosen ones.

Moses for example had the rebels at the base of the mountain where this commandment was inscribed into a stone tablet killed by the sword for making a golden calf, bowing down to it and making it their God because Moses took a bit longer than they liked coming down from the very same mountain.

There are also other examples where Joshua destroyed entire cities and slaughtered everyone God said to kill. Those who worshiped other God's back then did so with human sacrifices and worshiping their genitals.

And then there was King David and the list goes on.

After Jesus arrived all that bloodshed changed. But that's another story entirely.:)
 

SoulTYPE

Well-Known Member
t3gah said:
In the days when this commandment was laid down God really took action against those who disobeyed the command. Peoples and nations were killed at the hands of God's choosen ones.
That is not a good example of "Thou Shalt not Kill" then. why make a law if it is not followed bu it's creator?
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
There are actually two versions of the Ten Commandments in the Old Testament, the 20th chapter of Exodus and the 5th chapter of Deuteronomy.

There are two different statings, both are the same Ten Commandments.

BTW, the story of Moses receiving the Ten Commandments from God on a Mountain never happened.
Prove it. :p

That is not a good example of "Thou Shalt not Kill" then. why make a law if it is not followed bu it's creator?
As has been stated before a more proper translation is "Thou shalt not murder"
 

t3gah

Well-Known Member
The understanding by Christians is that since he is the absolute authority and supreme being he has the right to do whatever he likes, hence the God title (universal soveriengty).

There's a scripture that states God is instructing us in ways to better ourselves. Those who were killed were killed as a last resort. After a long time even though it seems like the next instant in the scriptures. As for a definitive answer to "Why?" the only scripture that comes to mind says "God's ways are not our ways".
 

SoulTYPE

Well-Known Member
t3gah said:
The understanding by Christians is that since he is the absolute authority and supreme being he has the right to do whatever he likes, hence the God title (universal soveriengty).
.
So God is excepted from these rules? And I agree with yo on the "understanding" part.
Oh and don't mind going off topic, feel free!

Anywyas, we cannot prove or disprove(if word exists) that Moses on the mountains with the tablets was true or not. We were not around then at the time. I am not arguing with either Emu's or Rice's beliefs, but merely interested in both of these.
 

arthra

Baha'i
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

When that commandment was given through Moses on Mount Sinai your religion and your tribal identity were very close.. Tribes wandered the deserts and secured territory and resources and moved around. Each tribe had practices and tribal religion.....

Egypt had a religion with many deities and used hieroglyphs and images.

By stressing one God... Moses accomplished the unification of the tribes of Israel and this was important to maintain the identity of Israel as a people. It was preliminary to establishing Israel as a state..

To form alliances and treaties they would require circumcision..

There was also an implication of faithfulness... that you would be faithful in worshiping God and not stray... Monotheism was attributed to Abraham and the covenant of God so Moses reaffirmed that on Mount Sinai.
 
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