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Revelations contains a forgery

wizanda

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Ok many people believe that John who wrote the letter of John is the same john who wrote revelations
Now from what i have found john was adept at writing greek where as revelations contains loads of grammatical errors
It is more then likely that it was written by the John who traveled with Saul
Now why the forgery
http://www.wizanda.co.uk/modules/cjaycontent/index.php?id=7
You can look at that or

Rev 19:9-10​

(9) And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.​



(10) And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.​
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Rev 22:6-21​

(6) And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.​

(7) Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.​

(8) And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.​

(9) Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.​

(10) And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.​

(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.​

(12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.​

(13) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.​

(14) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.​

(15) For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.​

(16) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.​

(17) And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.​

(18) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:​

(19) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.​

(20) He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.​



(21) The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.​
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Now if you had a vision you wouldn't repeat your self. If you look at these 2 passages they repeat word for word the same. You wouldnt bow in front of the angel that has just told you not to bow a chapter later? Then add a load of things that are not inline with christ, He said spread the word and show sinners how to be good not leave them sinning?​
 
Trinitas

Trinitas

Member
While it is true that John's Gospel & epistles are different grammatically from the Book of Revelation, there are reasons to believe that they were written by the same person. First, we have the testimony of the early Church; next there is the consideration that John may not have been that well educated in the Greek language. It is more than likely the case that John's Gospel and Epistles were redacted (edited) for style after he wrote them.

Another possibility to explain the differences between writing styles is that John wrote his Gospel as an Opus Magnum, and the Book of Revelation was written as a quick letter to the various churches in Asia Minor while he was under the stress of hard exile on the island of Patmos. Heck, I don't even use the same writing style all the time. Choosing a writing style really depends upon the topic on hand and the audience that you are writing to. So, the fact alone that these books have different writing style does not mean that they were written by different people.
 
Trinitas

Trinitas

Member
wizanda said:
Ok many people believe that John who wrote the letter of John is the same john who wrote revelations
Now from what i have found john was adept at writing greek where as revelations contains loads of grammatical errors
It is more then likely that it was written by the John who traveled with Saul
Now why the forgery
Click to expand...
I forgot to mention something. There is nothing in the writings of the Church Fathers or any other ancient source to suggest that John Mark (the travel companion of Paul in Acts) was the author of Revelation. The early Church pretty much testifies that Revelation was written by the John, the Apostle. There was debate about the authorship as early as Origen however, but the debate was over the authenticity of authorship, not over who the author was. It was pretty clear to the Church Fathers that the author of Revelation claimed to be John the Apostle. Once this was settled to their satisfaction, the book was included in the canon of the New Testament.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Trinitas said:
While it is true that John's Gospel & epistles are different grammatically from the Book of Revelation, there are reasons to believe that they were written by the same person. First, we have the testimony of the early Church; ...
Click to expand...
Sadly, that is always the "first" and best evidence of standard Catholic apologetics. That this tradition was steeped in superstition, tainted with polemical motive, and evolved at a time when pseudepigraphy was relatively common, is of little concern to the apologist who has no choice but to choose authority over scholaship.
 
Trinitas

Trinitas

Member
Deut. 32.8 said:
Sadly, that is always the "first" and best evidence of standard Catholic apologetics. That this tradition was steeped in superstition, tainted with polemical motive, and evolved at a time when pseudepigraphy was relatively common, is of little concern to the apologist who has no choice but to choose authority over scholaship.
Click to expand...
Hey Deut,

What's your gripe with authority? Do you believe that the sun is the center of the solar system? If so, what do you base it on - the authority of scientists? Or have you been there yourself to verify this? And what's wrong with being a Catholic apologist? Is it my being Catholic that you object to or my being an apologist? After all, you seem to be an apologist for atheism.
 
robtex

robtex

Veteran Member
Real quick---what is the relevance of who wrote the book of revelations? Does its authorship have anything to do with it's validity or lack of validity?

Lets say for instance you came across a guide to bar hopping in Austin that had no proven author. Anybody could have wrote it. I come along and say ---hey guys its mine ....I live here...I wrote it. .......good guide by the way for bar hopping....

John who lives in Houston points out the fact (which is true) that I have not been in a bar for over a year........and says ...see he could not have written it.....as a matter of fact I wrote it!!!

I jump back and say you live in Houston you infidel and heathen to the true way of bar hopping!! be gone with you!!!

We go back and forth back and forth but in the end does it matter who wrote the silly book ? Does it change the contents? Does it make it more or less valid?

What we have is an old text ...without a 100 % certainity of who wrote it but the contents are the same..irregardless of the author.....the more important question is how much value is in the contents.
 
wizanda

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
From a book i read on the subject from a bible scolar of 40 years
John in the letters didnt make grammatical errors where in revelations they are quite blatient
Yet that isnt my point who wrote it my point is you dont go and bow down in front of angel who has only just told you not to bow down im front of him
Then close the bible with your words after and leave the bible at the number of fallen man 66, also adding teaching not inline with the rest of the bible
please he who has an ear!
 
E

Ernestine

Member
Revelation was written by the apostle John, son of Zebedee. That conclusion is supported by most ancient historians who wrote in the first and second centuries (i.e. Papias, Justin Martyr, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian). The fact that John's other writings put so much emphasis on love doesn't mean that he could not have written Revelation. He and his brother James were so full of indignation against a Samaritan city that they wanted to call down fire from heaven. Jesus gave them the surname "Boanerges" or Sons of Thunder. The divergence in style seen in Revelation should not cause difficulty. The Hastings Dictionary indicates that the book of Revelation exhibits remarkable unity in literary style, in grammatical construction and in doctrine. Its harmony with the rest of the scriptures unquestionably proves it to be an authentic part of God's word written by John around 96 A.D.
 
precentor

precentor

Member
wizanda said:
Ok many people believe that John who wrote the letter of John is the same john who wrote revelations
Now from what i have found john was adept at writing greek where as revelations contains loads of grammatical errors
It is more then likely that it was written by the John who traveled with Saul
Now why the forgery
http://www.wizanda.co.uk/modules/cjaycontent/index.php?id=7
You can look at that or

[snip]

Textual criticism has shown that many of the books of the Bible (OT and NT) were probably not written by the people to whom they were attributed. I don't see how that matters, though : if it's inspired Scripture, it's inspired Scripture no matter whether St John the Divine wrote it or somebody else.
Click to expand...
 
D

Doodlebug02

Active Member
This is probably one of the reasons why Revelation was a highly debated entry into the Biblical canon. This is something that I am definitely interested in learning more about. :)
 
Ark

Ark

Member
Or could it be that the book of Revelations was encoded for more specific understandings by returning spirit(s) of the future?

Read it again and listen instead of translate literally.
 
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