God And Homosexuality

Left Coast · May 15, 2020

columbus said:
Honestly, that's quite irrelevant.
Sex does spread diseases. Many diseases that are easy to treat with modern science existed 3000 years ago. But they didn't have penecillin or tetracycline, so syphilis or gonorrhea was as fatal and contagious as HIV.
Strict rules about sex made sense in the primitive world.
Tom

While you're right, I'm not confident that's the reason such things were prohibited in the Torah. Monogamous, STI-negative gays aren't any more likely to catch a disease from gay sex than monogamous straight people. Nor would catching a disease from sex morally justify executing that person. Lepers were at least segregated, not killed.

Gay sex is described as as an "abomination," in the classic English translation, which as I understand it is a Hebrew term used to describe a wide variety of offenses, including cross-dressing, idolatry, and cheating in business. So the term seems to carry more of a moral judgment based on some standard besides hygiene.

columbus · May 15, 2020

KenS said:
As Skwim has hammered this so many times with cogent replies and great questions, and yet, it appears again and again..

Here's why it keeps reappearing.

Because the anti-gay responses are vague and irrational. They consistently fall into one of two categories.

A) Comparisons to irresponsible sex.
Pedophilia causes a bunch of damage to young people. Promiscuity spreads disease. Etc. Etc.
All of that is completely irrelevant to my marriage, of nearly 3 decades, to another dude. Or the fact that we have sex. That doesn't stop Christians, from Fred Phelps to Mike Pence from hating on us.

B) Scripture.
"God said it.
I believe it.
That settles it."

This might convince other Bible Believing Christian folks. But, to me, it's just proof that the Bible is largely fiction. Rather like all the Christians who have adopted secular values concerning slavery and genocide and gender rights, despite Scripture, I don't find the primitive ethics of Bible authors authoritative.

And frankly, neither does anyone else I know. The Bible Literalists I know are constantly dancing around what the Bible clearly says when they prefer a different interpretation.

For example, when they redefine "day" to mean "billions of years". Or "murder" to include abortion. The list is quite endless.

Tom

Skwim · May 15, 2020

Salvador said:
Sodomy might have been spreading a viral communicable fatal disease like AIDS,; a concerned God would have rightfully disapproved of people's behavior putting each other at risk of consequentially being plagued by auto immune deficiency syndrome. Right?,

If you think so.
.

Skwim · May 15, 2020

PureX said:
No inerrant humans, anywhere, ever.

Just to be clear, are you saying it has to be humans because god is never wrong?

.

columbus · May 15, 2020

Left Coast said:
While you're right, I'm not confident that's the reason such things were prohibited in the Torah.

I don't claim to know why primitive folks did anything in particular, not with much confidence. At least, not in the sense of why they wrote what they did.

For all I know, oral sex between men was OK. The euphemism that got translated into "lie with a man as with a woman" isn't at all precise. Could two guys have buttsecks standing up?

Maybe all Moses & Co were objecting to was gay marriage. "Sex anybody you want, but marry a baby machine or two. This nation needs babies!".
:shrug:

I don't claim to be able to read the minds of ancient people in a culture I barely understand at all. That sort of arrogance is a religious affliction.
Tom

Skwim · May 15, 2020

PruePhillip said:
You need to ask deeper questions
Why does God hate adultery?
Why does God hate divorce?
Why does God hate pedophilia?
Why does God hate necrophilia?
Why does God hate those who ill treat others?

Don't need to do any such thing.

there's a pattern to all this.... but notice, God doesn't
hate pedophiles, homosexuals, adulterers etc.. God
hates the behavior.

And why do you think I said "homosexual sex" instead of "homosexuality, " because I like typing "sex"?

.

.

robocop (actually) · May 15, 2020

Fool said:
does me too. thats is exactly what John 14:20 is saying

oneness literally means that

oneness | Search Online Etymology Dictionary

you can whine and believe all you want but Jesus is not God absolute anymore, or less, than anyone else who is showing loving kindness

but belief without works is dead when unconditional love is not part of the picture. jesus never, ever said to worship him as god.

it would nullify the word he promoted.

Deuteronomy 4:15

I'm not disagreeing with you here.

robocop (actually) · May 15, 2020

Fool said:
will, purpose, spirit

blah, blah, blah, blah

they are all synonyms bub.

again do you not know?

1 Corinthians 6:19

the fruit of the Holy Spirit is.......................wait for it.......................... is..........................................

LOVE

Again, not disagreeing with you.

robocop (actually) · May 15, 2020

columbus said:
By applying the 1st Commandment, and basic monotheistic principles as clearly described in The Original Testament.
Tom

Jesus called Himself "I am."

Skwim · May 15, 2020

KenS said:
As Skwim has hammered this so many times with cogent replies and great questions, and yet, it appears again and again... I can't help but have some questions:

1) Does Skwim have a Godophobia?

It's silly to fear or dislike what doesn't exist.

2) Does Skwim not like someone telling him what to do or not what to do?

Depends on the who and the what.

3) Does Skwim want to be his own god and establish what he deems to be right and what he deems to be wrong?

Not with the motley bunch of humans on planet Earth I don't,

4) Does Skwim have a internal struggle and is calling out for help?[/QUOTE]
Skwim simply likes new input from a new audience. And having passed the 100th post here, my job is done.

.

Skwim · May 15, 2020

BilliardsBall said:
Your question is moot, since you used the word hate. It's not hate to say, "Don't commit adultery, sexual immorality, use drugs," etc.

How about if one says, "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."? Think god loves it when man lies with a male as with a woman? But call it whatever you like. In my opinion god hates it.

.

columbus · May 15, 2020

robocop (actually) said:
Jesus called Himself "I am."

How can you possibly know this?

You can't. Everything you think you know about Jesus is from someone else. People you can't know either, because nobody does. The best you can say is "The English Translator I trust claims that the Greek Translator trusted by ancient Romans believes that Jesus said, in yet another language and culture, ....."
Something.....

Sorry, I don't find any modern people particularly authoritative on the subject of Jesus, much less God.
Tom

PureX · May 15, 2020

Skwim said:
Just to be clear, are you saying it has to be humans because god is never wrong?

Well, if God could be 'wrong' what would be the point in our worshiping his texts? Just as there is no point in our worshiping texts written by men, because men can be wrong.

There is a reason for the admonishment against idolization. And the reason is that we humans cannot produce perfection. We couldn't even know it if we did produce it, or if we encountered it. Which is why NO text, NO supernatural visitation, NO divine revelation, No claim of divine authority of any kind, by any human (or any other being), should ever be taken as unquestionable, and undeniable.

Skwim · May 15, 2020

robocop (actually) said:
The people wanted them to be put to death, and God obliged, but with the atonement we can repent of our sins.

Chapter and verse please, because all I see are god's words. "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

.

Left Coast · May 15, 2020

columbus said:
I don't claim to know why primitive folks did anything in particular, not with much confidence. At least, not in the sense of why they wrote what they did.

For all I know, oral sex between men was OK. The euphemism that got translated into "lie with a man as with a woman" isn't at all precise. Could two guys have buttsecks standing up?

Maybe all Moses & Co were objecting to was gay marriage. "Sex anybody you want, but marry a baby machine or two. This nation needs babies!".

I don't claim to be able to read the minds of ancient people in a culture I barely understand at all. That sort of arrogance is a religious affliction.
Tom

I don't think understanding the religions of ancient people is any more inherently inscrutable than understanding any other aspect of their cultures. That's the whole purpose of scientific fields like cultural anthropology, archaeology, textual criticism, etc. The Bible is not just an arbitrary black box no one can make any heads or tails out of. We can reach some reasonable, evidence-based conclusions about its content and the motivations of its authors. Or at least, rule some conclusions out.

robocop (actually) · May 15, 2020

columbus said:
How can you possibly know this?

You can't. Everything you think you know about Jesus is from someone else. People you can't know either, because nobody does. The best you can say is "The English Translator I trust claims that the Greek Translator trusted by ancient Romans believes that Jesus said, in yet another language and culture, ....."
Something.....

Sorry, I don't find any modern people particularly authoritative on the subject of Jesus, much less God.
Tom

So you believe the Old Testament and not the New Testament? Not a problem with me.

robocop (actually) · May 15, 2020

Skwim said:
Chapter and verse please, because all I see are god's words. "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

.

Not in the Bible; just my experience. If people in America despised homosexuals so much 50 years ago, I can imagine it was really bad in ancient Israel.

Kenny · May 15, 2020

Skwim said:
It's silly to fear or dislike what doesn't exist.

Yet, you come back again and again! So, I can't hear what you are saying because of all that your write.

Skwim said:
Depends on the who and the what.

Definitely not God

Skwim said:
Not with the motley bunch of humans on planet Earth I don't,

Yes... but you keep judging.

Skwim said:
Skwim simply likes new input from a new audience. And having passed the 100th post here, my job is done.

Hmmmm.... maybe something deeper

columbus · May 15, 2020

robocop (actually) said:
So you believe the Old Testament and not the New Testament? Not a problem with me.

I said no such thing.

I believe Scripture to be fiction, of the "docudrama" variety. A batch of legends, mixed with morality stories, and a dash of self-serving lies.
With just enough demonstrably accurate historicity to keep the gullible believing the rest of it.

Tom

Kenny · May 15, 2020

columbus said:
Here's why it keeps reappearing.

Because the anti-gay responses are vague and irrational. They consistently fall into one of two categories.

And yet, I haven't seen one anti-gay post.

except from Skwim.

God And Homosexuality

This Is Water

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