Christians, which Old Testament Laws to obey, and which to ignore?

Israel12 · May 5, 2020

Nova2216 said:
Your position assumes Gentiles were given the 10 commandments (OT Law).

The OT Law was only for the Jews as a nation.

(Gal.5:4) says if you go back to the OT Law you fall from grace.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

(Gal, 4:22-31) teaches "all flesh" (Jew / Gentile) is now under the NT Law (not the OT Law).

Thanks

No, I know this but again Galatians 5... Why would Christ be no effect? Because I kept sabbath Leviticus 23:3) ? Because I refused to crossdress (Deuteronomy 22:5)? Because I stand up when the hoary head enters (Leviticus 19:32)? No.. it's because again of SACRIFICE. If I sacrifice animlas for sin which God said did not make me perfect then what effect is Christ? NONE. You can go anywhere and it will always resort back to sacrifice being the law that is done away with

Hebrews 10:5
[5]Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

I'll be quoting this alot because this is literally your answer. Dietary, Ceremonial, civil and moral laws still must be kept

rational experiences · May 5, 2020

Nova2216 said:
Your position assumes Gentiles were given the 10 commandments (OT Law).

The OT Law was only for the Jews as a nation.

(Gal.5:4) says if you go back to the OT Law you fall from grace.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

(Gal, 4:22-31) teaches "all flesh" (Jew / Gentile) is now under the NT Law (not the OT Law).

Thanks

In natural real science life, human sexual intercourse by 2 human being parents is why any human is living today.

That act of human sex in a science theory would own thousands even millions of years in a theory....you know making believe that humans are having sex as angels in the heavenly body as if our parents were angels first.

That sort of occult mind, not owning presence as a consciousness.

The planet history natural O stone. volcanoes released gases that cooled to own atmosphere. Sun attacked converted, o moon wandering asteroid star assisted to save Earth cooling out of space burning radiation attack. Water sealed the Earth in flood....natural history.

Science constantly proves to it own human expressed self that you lie about natural life. 100 years ago, your own bio conscious self, and groups of self presence as humans all born from the act of human sex, would not even exist, expressing what you study or believe inferring.

Humans who lived without science, were not bothered in their life with science. As a human who uses information for self survival correctly.

Everyday science in a human life claims it is detailing step by step reasoning for how every body in Nature on Earth was created as if you speak on behalf of a God self or a Creator self, in egotistical group peer mentality.

Anyone is allowed to tell stories, but when you build a fake artificial machine, as a human that puts that machine past our own life existence as future owner on Earth, is the science self who wants us all destroyed.

For you might claim that science is allowed to tell stories...but that is not what you do everyday. You use your machines and control your machines to attack everything...and lie about what you claim is your human rights.

oldbadger · May 5, 2020

Israel12 said:
All of God's laws are to be kept. The only ones that were fulfilled were sacrificial laws because Christ became that ultimate sacrifice but as far as Ceremonial, Dietary, and Civil laws which are summed up in the Moral law and further summed up in two laws (Love God/Neighbor) and further summed up in one word (Love) are to be kept

OK.... but many Christians have posted that the whole lot were redacted.

I notice that the sacrificial laws were ended because Jesus (and the Baptist) intended this to happen. Jesus often said, 'I will have mercy, and not sacrifice' in so many words.

Israel12 · May 5, 2020

oldbadger said:
OK.... but many Christians have posted that the whole lot were redacted.

I notice that the sacrificial laws were ended because Jesus (and the Baptist) intended this to happen. Jesus often said, 'I will have mercy, and not sacrifice' in so many words.

And Christianity is wrong, Christ came to honour and magnify the law like Isaiah 42 prophecied.

Nova2216 · May 5, 2020

Israel12 said:
No, I know this but again Galatians 5... Why would Christ be no effect? Because I kept sabbath Leviticus 23:3) ? Because I refused to crossdress (Deuteronomy 22:5)? Because I stand up when the hoary head enters (Leviticus 19:32)? No.. it's because again of SACRIFICE. If I sacrifice animlas for sin which God said did not make me perfect then what effect is Christ? NONE. You can go anywhere and it will always resort back to sacrifice being the law that is done away with

Hebrews 10:5
[5]Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

I'll be quoting this alot because this is literally your answer. Dietary, Ceremonial, civil and moral laws still must be kept

You said -"Why would Christ be no effect?"

God said - (Gal.5:4) - 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

You said - "
I'll be quoting this alot because this is literally your answer. Dietary, Ceremonial, civil and moral laws still must be kept
"

God said -

(Col.2:14-17) -14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

(Ac.10;9-16) - 9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: 10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, 11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: 12. Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. 14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. 15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. 16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

(1Tim.4:3-5) - 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

(Luke 16:16) - 16 The law and the prophets were until John: ...

I will be posting these for they contradict what you teach.

oldbadger · May 5, 2020

Israel12 said:
And Christianity is wrong, Christ came to honour and magnify the law like Isaiah 42 prophecied.

What can I say to that? I'm a Deist.
I do find that some Christians point to other churches or creeds and insist ' they are not Christians'!
Look at how different Calvinists are to Lutherans, just one example.

Can I ask, Do you belong to a Church or particular Creed?. So many Christians have posted on this thread that they don't recognise OT laws or just the yen commandments.
That saddens me because it means that they have dismissed the poor laws.

Israel12 · May 5, 2020

Nova2216 said:
You said -"Why would Christ be no effect?"

God said - (Gal.5:4) - 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

You said - "
I'll be quoting this alot because this is literally your answer. Dietary, Ceremonial, civil and moral laws still must be kept
"

God said -

(Col.2:14-17) -14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

(Ac.10;9-16) - 9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: 10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, 11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: 12. Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. 14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. 15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. 16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

(1Tim.4:3-5) - 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

(Luke 16:16) - 16 The law and the prophets were until John: ...

I will be posting these for they contradict what you teach.

When I said "I'll be quoting this" I was referring to Hebrews 10. But I'm so glad you went to Colossians... Now let's cut this heresy you are saying.

Colossians 2:16-17
[16]Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
[17]Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

It says these things were a shadow of good things to come... What EXACTLY does that mean? Again... Hebrews 10

Hebrews 10:1
[1]For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those SACRIFICES which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

What LAW was a shadow of good things to come? SACRIFICE... so how does that tie in with Colossians? It said don't judge in MEAT or DRINK or NEW MOONS or HOLY DAYS etc.. let's see what was done one those days

Ezekiel 45:17
[17]And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and MEAT OFFERINGS, and DRINK OFFERINGS, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

SACRIFICES were done on these days.. but those are a shadow of good things which was Christ. Therefore when you keep the Sabbath or new moon or feasts don't let no man judge you when you don't SACRIFICE meat and drink offerings. Like I said I'll be quoting Hebrews 10 alot because that is the law that was done away... And to demonstrate this further take a look at this

Isaiah 66:23
[23]And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Even the new moons and Sabbaths will be kept in the kingdom so it's nothing about those laws... It's about the SACRIFICE which goes back to Galatians 5:4 if I am sacrificing animals for sins then Christ is no effect to me. Not because I keep the Sabbath or new moon or I refuse to crossdress... Smh btw things like Acts 10 works against you in so many ways

Israel12 · May 5, 2020

oldbadger said:
What can I say to that? I'm a Deist.
I do find that some Christians point to other churches or creeds and insist ' they are not Christians'!
Look at how different Calvinists are to Lutherans, just one example.

Can I ask, Do you belong to a Church or particular Creed?. So many Christians have posted on this thread that they don't recognise OT laws or just the yen commandments.
That saddens me because it means that they have dismissed the poor laws.

Well the topic is nothing about creeds or what church I belong to personally but I do agree the dismissal of God's laws is blasphemy. The laws literally teach you how to love God and how to love your neighbor

Nova2216 · May 5, 2020

The OT Law refers to the 10 commandments

(Ex.34:27) - 27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. 28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

(1Kings 8:9,21) - 9 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt. - 21.21 And I have set there a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of the LORD, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.

(Deut.4:13) - 13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

The Old Law ‹ Old Wire Road church of Christ

Israel12 · May 5, 2020

Nova2216 said:
The OT Law refers to the 10 commandments

(Ex.34:27) - 27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. 28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

(1Kings 8:9,21) - 9 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt. - 21.21 And I have set there a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of the LORD, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.

(Deut.4:13) - 13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

The Old Law ‹ Old Wire Road church of Christ

You are jumping away from what I just addressd. Nevertheless, I don't see your point. "The OT Law refers to the 10 commandments." If that's the case then you are telling me I can steal, kill, commit Adultery, have multiple gods, etc. Because you used 1 Corinthians 3 to say the laws were done away with and you have literally said, "Jesus abolished all the OT Law." So if the OT law refers to the 10 Commandments and Jesus abolished the OT law then I can do what I want and sin is not a thing. You are literally promoting sin

Thief · May 5, 2020

oldbadger said:
Christians, which Old Testament Laws to obey, and which to ignore?
How were some O.T. laws dropped, and others kept?
A few Christians can be self-righteously judgemental about the lives, feelings, cultures, sexualities and beliefs of others.
Exactly what laws are within the New-Covenant, and which others 'repealed'?

an eye for an eye
a tooth for a tooth

let's forget that one

oldbadger · May 5, 2020

Thief said:
an eye for an eye
a tooth for a tooth

let's forget that one

Absolutely.

oldbadger · May 5, 2020

Israel12 said:
Well the topic is nothing about creeds or what church I belong to personally......

We need to know which Creeds believe in what OT laws, if any.
If you don't want to name your particular Creed or church then we'll just have to guess, but all Christians think that their Christianity is right.

Nova2216 · May 5, 2020

Israel12 said:
You are jumping away from what I just addressd. Nevertheless, I don't see your point. "The OT Law refers to the 10 commandments." If that's the case then you are telling me I can steal, kill, commit Adultery, have multiple gods, etc. Because you used 1 Corinthians 3 to say the laws were done away with and you have literally said, "Jesus abolished all the OT Law." So if the OT law refers to the 10 Commandments and Jesus abolished the OT law then I can do what I want and sin is not a thing. You are literally promoting sin

The NT is a law.

(James 1:25) - 25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

(Rom. 3:27) - 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Thanks

Nova2216 · May 5, 2020

(2Cor. 3:7) - 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be "done away":

"done away"

Notice in (Luke 2:22-24) -

22. Law of Moses
23. Law of the Lord

Notice also

6 This Ezra went up from Babylon; and he was a ready scribe in the law of Moses, which the LORD God of Israel had given: and the king granted him all his request, according to the hand of the LORD his God upon him.

12 Artaxerxes, king of kings, unto Ezra the priest, a scribe of the law of the God of heaven, perfect peace, and at such a time.(Ezra 7:6,12) .

***

1 And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the LORD had commanded to Israel.

8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading. (Neh. 8:1,8)

rational experiences · May 5, 2020

Nova2216 said:
The OT Law refers to the 10 commandments

(Ex.34:27) - 27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. 28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

(1Kings 8:9,21) - 9 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt. - 21.21 And I have set there a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of the LORD, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.

(Deut.4:13) - 13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

The Old Law ‹ Old Wire Road church of Christ

The review of humans reviewing occult science UFO nuclear science trans mutation themes owned by humans, by males originally as the scientist who invented science to want God to be removed.

And the term God today is both the planet Earth as stone and also a God particle...same reasoning. To have it removed by converting it and resourcing it, burning it up.

To own God as stone used or burnt up is to look inside of the body of stone.

Natural history said God O the Earth was an angel of the eternal spirit that had gone to Hell....meaning it exploded and burnt. Then it stopped burning due to 2 conditions. Water that formed in space and that as it burnt the mass opened into more and more space. Opened space assisted cooling.

So God became stone, and if stone were not present created then what was less than stone, the burning within would not exist either. So males in science said and God created the law of the volcano....for a volcano/mountain would not exist unless the body of stone existed. Yet stone did not create anything. It just existed formed.

In God higher string history God was just gases and those gases became stone.

So the covenant of God the heart was less than God itself...for it was volcanic mass.

Why law breaking of stone fusion relates to males in science who take cold God stone minerals, convert them, burn them, melt them. Which is where their machine theories should stop. For cooling, water already owned natural history of when God created and owned the presence of minerals.

How a Satanic occult Sun worshipper UFOlogist is the Destroyer of life on Earth.

Nova2216 · May 5, 2020

rational experiences said:
The review of humans reviewing occult science UFO nuclear science trans mutation themes owned by humans, by males originally as the scientist who invented science to want God to be removed.

And the term God today is both the planet Earth as stone and also a God particle...same reasoning. To have it removed by converting it and resourcing it, burning it up.

To own God as stone used or burnt up is to look inside of the body of stone.

Natural history said God O the Earth was an angel of the eternal spirit that had gone to Hell....meaning it exploded and burnt. Then it stopped burning due to 2 conditions. Water that formed in space and that as it burnt the mass opened into more and more space. Opened space assisted cooling.

So God became stone, and if stone were not present created then what was less than stone, the burning within would not exist either. So males in science said and God created the law of the volcano....for a volcano/mountain would not exist unless the body of stone existed. Yet stone did not create anything. It just existed formed.

In God higher string history God was just gases and those gases became stone.

So the covenant of God the heart was less than God itself...for it was volcanic mass.

Why law breaking of stone fusion relates to males in science who take cold God stone minerals, convert them, burn them, melt them. Which is where their machine theories should stop. For cooling, water already owned natural history of when God created and owned the presence of minerals.

How a Satanic occult Sun worshipper UFOlogist is the Destroyer of life on Earth.

Friend, you do have a way with words.

Thanks

Israel12 · May 5, 2020

Nova2216 said:
The NT is a law.

(James 1:25) - 25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

(Rom. 3:27) - 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Thanks

Sir, you are not making any valid points... The law of faith the law of liberty, that is not defining a set of laws. You have said that the OT laws refer to the 10 Commandments, you then said the OT laws are abolish and done away. So you are literally saying I can sin.

Nova2216 · May 5, 2020

No. I am not condoning sin. You misunderstand my position.

(1Cor. 6:9-11) - 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

(Gal.5:19-21) - 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

***

(Gal. 6:2) - ...so fulfil the law of Christ.

Thanks

Nova2216 · May 5, 2020

Israel12 said:
Sir, you are not making any valid points... The law of faith the law of liberty, that is not defining a set of laws. You have said that the OT laws refer to the 10 Commandments, you then said the OT laws are abolish and done away. So you are literally saying I can sin.

(Ex.34:27) - 27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. 28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

(1Kings 8:9,21) - 9 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt. 21 And I have set there a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of the LORD, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt

Christians, which Old Testament Laws to obey, and which to ignore?

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