• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Saved Or Predestined ???

Pianoworldstage

Pianoworldstage

New Member
Hi

Are we chosen to be saved?
Does God pre-select us according to his will?
Is salvation only for the elect?

I have faith, i believe, I've confessed and repented and accepted Christ as lord and saviour, but am i saved?

If not predestined and apart of his elect?
Then all hope faith and trust in Christ is in
vain, and comes to nothing.

Ephesians 4:5.
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will.

Ephesians 11.
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Pianoworldstage said:
Hi

Are we chosen to be saved?
Does God pre-select us according to his will?
Is salvation only for the elect?

I have faith, i believe, I've confessed and repented and accepted Christ as lord and saviour, but am i saved?

If not predestined and apart of his elect?
Then all hope faith and trust in Christ is in
vain, and comes to nothing.
Click to expand...
I can't even imagine a God who would be so callous towards His children.
 
TheTruthReaper

TheTruthReaper

Member
Pianoworldstage said:
Hi

Are we chosen to be saved?
Does God pre-select us according to his will?
Is salvation only for the elect?

I have faith, i believe, I've confessed and repented and accepted Christ as lord and saviour, but am i saved?

If not predestined and apart of his elect?
Then all hope faith and trust in Christ is in
vain, and comes to nothing.

Ephesians 4:5.
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will.

Ephesians 11.
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.
Click to expand...
Are you saved to be predestined
for the lake of fire?
Or are you predestined to be saved for
the lake of fire?
 
MNoBody

MNoBody

Well-Known Member
Pianoworldstage said:
Hi

Are we chosen to be saved?
Does God pre-select us according to his will?
Is salvation only for the elect?

I have faith, i believe, I've confessed and repented and accepted Christ as lord and saviour, but am i saved?

If not predestined and apart of his elect?
Then all hope faith and trust in Christ is in
vain, and comes to nothing.

Ephesians 4:5.
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will.

Ephesians 11.
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.
Click to expand...
'Saved' from 'what', exactly?
 
sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
TheTruthReaper said:
Put it in the context you will accept.
Click to expand...
I don't believe that we need to be saved. The "father" does not condemn any of his "children". Rather the Bible as well as other religions asserts that, in the Biblical terms, the "Kingdom of God" is within us.

How well we live up to our divine nature in life has an impact on our experience after we leave the physical body and in future lives on Earth.

If we heed good advice, we are saved from the consequences because we don't do what will automatically result in our learning lessons the hard way.

But that's the application of action and reaction not having a saved soul because we accept certain doctrine.
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Pianoworldstage said:
Hi

Are we chosen to be saved?
Does God pre-select us according to his will?
Is salvation only for the elect?

I have faith, i believe, I've confessed and repented and accepted Christ as lord and saviour, but am i saved?

If not predestined and apart of his elect?
Then all hope faith and trust in Christ is in
vain, and comes to nothing.

Ephesians 4:5.
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will.

Ephesians 11.
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.
Click to expand...

I am not of your (or any) faith.....but if your god is omniscient, then predestination is the only possibility.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Valjean said:
Wouldn't an omniscient God automatically know the ultimate fate of every being, even before it's born?
Click to expand...
I can understand why that might appear to be the case, but I don't believe we're programmed to do anything or that God micromanages our lives. I believe He has given us freedom of choice and allows us to exercise it, regardless of the consequences. The fact that He knows us as well as He does doesn't mean that our behaviors are necessarily determined by His knowledge.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Pianoworldstage said:
Hi
Are we chosen to be saved?
Does God pre-select us according to his will?
Is salvation only for the elect?
I have faith, i believe, I've confessed and repented and accepted Christ as lord and saviour, but am i saved?
If not predestined and apart of his elect?
Then all hope faith and trust in Christ is in
vain, and comes to nothing.
Ephesians 4:5.
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will.
Ephesians 11.
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.
Click to expand...

First of all, I find at Ephesians 1:5; Ephesians 1:11 in the Greek Interlinear the word predestined does Not appear.
The 'having destined' is Not about the actual person himself but God's purpose that is destined to happen.- Psalms 37:9-11; Matthew 5:5.
In other words, God is selective when it comes to foreknowledge .
For example: please notice that the people of Revelation 7:9 are an un-known number.
So, who will make up that great crowd of un-numbered people still remains to be seen, to be known.
No specific number given. This is because God is like the father of a large family but Not all of his children reciprocate his love.
God as our Father exercises self control in order to respect the gift of free-will choices that he gave us. - Isaiah 42:14 A.
Whereas, predestination casts a dark pall over God to the point then that people blame God for all suffering and misery in the world.
Rather, the Bible paints an opposite picture about God at Deuteronomy 32:4-5; Deuteronomy 30:19-20. We get to choose.
Future Peace on Earth is foretold but it is up to us to choose - John 17:3. Make a personal informed choice - Isaiah 48:17-18.

Also, the ' foundation of the world', is Not speaking about the 'foundation of Earth', but the world of righteous mankind.
Righteous mankind starting with righteous Abel - Matthew 23:35.

So, what was pre-selected is that there will be those elect or called ones to be saints or holy ones of Daniel 7:18.
As to who that will prove to be remains to seen as to who remains faithful to the end as Jesus said at Matthew 24:13.

Salvation ( being delivered/ rescued ) is for Jesus' ' brothers ' and for the figurative humble ' sheep ' of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
These humble people who are alive on Earth at this soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth can be saved/delivered /rescued alive to live through the coming 'great tribulation ' of Revelation 7:14,9 and be here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental reign over Earth and see what God has determined that there will be ' healing ' for earth's nations as per Revelation 22:2; Isaiah 35th chapter.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
MNoBody said:
'Saved' from 'what', exactly?
Click to expand...
For our time frame, saved alive ( delivered/ rescued ) through the coming great tribulation - Revelation 7:14,9.
We are nearing the time of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 when the powers that be will be saying, " Peace and Security..." but that rosy-looking time will only prove to be the precursor to the coming great tribulation, before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will be the one who will usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.
This is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come and bring ' healing ' benefits to Earth as mentioned at Revelation 22:2 that there will be ' healing' for earth's nations.
Jesus will fulfill God's promise to father Abraham that ALL families and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed.- Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18.
Blessed with the benefit of ' healing ' for earth's nations when No one will say, " I am sick...." - Isaiah 33:24.
Earth and its people will be healthy as described at Isaiah 35th chapter.
Even ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth as per 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8.
So, we can be ' saved ' from being destroyed with the wicked who will be 'destroyed forever' - Psalms 92:7; Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
sun rise said:
I don't believe that we need to be saved. The "father" does not condemn any of his "children". Rather the Bible as well as other religions asserts that, in the Biblical terms, the "Kingdom of God" is within us.
How well we live up to our divine nature in life has an impact on our experience after we leave the physical body and in future lives on Earth.
If we heed good advice, we are saved from the consequences because we don't do what will automatically result in our learning lessons the hard way.
But that's the application of action and reaction not having a saved soul because we accept certain doctrine.
Click to expand...

I find Jesus was talking to the hate-filled Pharisees at Luke 17:20-21 Not that the kingdom (Daniel 2:44) was literally inside of them, but that Jesus as King designate of God's government was within their midst, among them. What was inside or within the Pharisees is found at Mark 7:20-23.
It was only after Jesus concluded what he said to the Pharisees that then Jesus addresses his disciples at Luke 17:22
First, Jesus would go away before he would later return in Kingdom power - see Luke 19:11-15.

Children can corrupt themselves, the wicked will be ' destroyed forever ' - Psalms 92:7.
The executional words from Jesus' mouth will rid the Earth of the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16
So, it is No wonder that Matthew 20:28 says that Jesus' ransom covers MANY and does Not say all.
Also, remember: Jesus' words found at Matthew 7:21-23.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
TheTruthReaper said:
Are you saved to be predestined
for the lake of fire?
Or are you predestined to be saved for
the lake of fire?
Click to expand...
I think we need to remember the definition of the lake of fire is Not fire, but defined as ' second death ' at Revelation 20:13-14.
Biblical death is described by Jesus at John 11:11-14 to be in a sleep-like state. No pain in death.
This is also why the OT also teaches ' sleep in death ' - Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
So, the Bible's death is simply mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead until Resurrection Day.
Resurrection Day meaning Jesus' Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years.
This is why the 'future tense' is used at Acts 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection....
 
Valjean

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Katzpur said:
I can understand why that might appear to be the case, but I don't believe we're programmed to do anything or that God micromanages our lives. I believe He has given us freedom of choice and allows us to exercise it, regardless of the consequences. The fact that He knows us as well as He does doesn't mean that our behaviors are necessarily determined by His knowledge.
Click to expand...
Micromanagement and self determination are fine, but omniscience is what it is. Either God knows the future or He does not. That's the salient point.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top