Are we experiencing an apocalypse?

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

There is such a vast amount of material given in the Baha'i Writings as to what humanity will have to face while it's unity is not pursued, it is really hard to find a place to start.

Needless to say, that as a Baha'i I see that these are times of great promise, times of great hope in the knowledge that God is guiding us to find our unity and the Oneness of Humanity and God will bring about a great future.

As we struggle against our own thoughts as to how it will happen, passages such as these, this one written in 1955, have been left for us to consider;

"... It should not be surmised that the events which have taken place in all corners of the globe, including the sacred land of Iran, have occurred as isolated incidents without any aim and purpose....... "The invisible hand is at work and the convulsions taking place on earth are a prelude to the proclamation of the Cause of God". This is but one of the mysterious forces of this supreme Revelation which is causing the limbs of mankind to quake and those who are drunk with pride and negligence to be thunderstruck and shaken...."

I see All that resist the unity of humanity, are those that are drunk with pride and are negligent as to God's purpose for Humanity. That may appear harsh, but it is becoming an ever more apparent reality.

From the way I have come to see these events, is that the answers are found in a world embracing Faith, that is now climbing out of obscurity. As more people look for the meaning of what all this calamity means, they may contemplate this passage ;

" The resistless march of the Faith of Bahá'u'lláh, viewed in this light, and propelled by the stimulating influences which the unwisdom of its enemies and the force latent within itself both engender, resolves itself into a series of rhythmic pulsations, precipitated, on the one hand, through the explosive outbursts of its foes, and the vibrations of Divine Power, on the other, which speed it, with ever-increasing momentum, along that predestined course traced for it by the Hand of the Almighty.... "

Some see Karma is a powerful force, and when we consider the opposition faced by Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Krishna, Buddha and all God's Messengers, then look at how many follow them today, considering all the past convulsions faced by mankind for that to be so, then it is not hard to consider the convulsions we will face by rejecting a Message that is to embrace the entire human race.

It appears crisis and Victory, ebb and Flow, night and Day are intrinsic parts of the world we live in.

Regards Tony

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Good to hear from you Tony,

From a Baha'i perspective I would see that Armageddon began with the commencement of WWI and continues to this day. Humanity had the opportunity to accept Baha'u'llah has the Messenger of God for this day when He wrote to the Kings and Rules of the earth during the 1860s/70s but they failed to heed the call. Baha'u'llah anticipated this rejection and referred to the lesser and greater peace that would inevitably follow. So these convulsions including the current coronavirus crisis presents an opportunity for individuals, communities and nations to collectively work together for the common good. There is the opportunity to strengthen international governance, better apply science to known threats and to arise to the moral challenge to meet serve humanity with love and nobility. That is how I understand the concept of apocalypse as a Baha'i.

adrian009 said:

I’m not a fan of applying apocalyptic or end times language to our current circumstances. Narratives around themes such as the apocalypse and Armageddon are often used and exploited by extreme and fundamentalist religious groups. The language can be emotive and manipulative when these times call for calm and wise decision making.

However a friend recently commented that this may be the only apocalypse we see in our lifetime. On reflection this worldwide pandemic has similarities with the so called Spanish influenza virus through 1918 where an estimated 50 million people died. Obviously we’re no where near that figure yet but its still early days. The economic repercussions are being compared to the Great Depression in the 1930s. Once again its far too early to tell whether this period will be similar.

If it is as bad, could the terms apocalypse and Armageddon be usefully applied the Spanish flu, the Great Depression and even the two world wars.

Examples of the meaning of the word apocalypse include;

1/ The complete final destruction of the world, as described in the biblical book of Revelation.

2/ An event involving destruction or damage on a catastrophic scale.

So the current circumstances might meet the criteria for definition (2). If we are experiencing an ‘apocalypse’ what does religion provide that could assist us as opposed to hinder our response to coronavirus?

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I believe that we wont ever see the apacolypse coming or know when, it will just happen in a split second going by your first definition and going by your second definition I guess religion can offer us comfort

Wandering Monk said:

OK, show me the data that demonstrates that a 14 to 20% rise in deaths above the norm is coming from those things.

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I think your 20% increase is a little misleading. According to CDC records, death rates for March 2020 are down 15% from the previous 4 years. On the other hand, in Thailand, suicide is up due to desperation caused by the economic downturn caused by desperation and "fear itself". As for the US, while the walking dead have much to fear, it is probably their over eating, lack of exercise, smoking, drinking, and drugs which will combine with the fear based high blood pressure which will undermine their health. Heart disease is the number one killer in the US. People sitting at home, drinking, eating ice cream, and doing drugs is recipe for disaster. People who exercise, like the lone surfer in California, are arrested for being in public.

This Is Strange: Total US Deaths in March 2020 are Actually Down 15% from Average of Prior Four Years

https://forum.thaivisa.com/Topic/1161445-Report-says-thailand’s-suicide-rate...
8 hours ago · Report says Thailand’s suicide rate increasing during coronavirus pandemic Driven to desperation by the unprecedented economic impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic, the number of Thais taking their own lives to escape their hardship has increased, according to a research paper commissioned by the Office of the Committee for the Promotion of Science, Research and Innovations.

adrian009 said:

Good to hear from you Tony,

From a Baha'i perspective I would see that Armageddon began with the commencement of WWI and continues to this day. Humanity had the opportunity to accept Baha'u'llah has the Messenger of God for this day when He wrote to the Kings and Rules of the earth during the 1860s/70s but they failed to heed the call. Baha'u'llah anticipated this rejection and referred to the lesser and greater peace that would inevitably follow. So these convulsions including the current coronavirus crisis presents an opportunity for individuals, communities and nations to collectively work together for the common good. There is the opportunity to strengthen international governance, better apply science to known threats and to arise to the moral challenge to meet serve humanity with love and nobility. That is how I understand the concept of apocalypse as a Baha'i.

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I would think that the "black death", with upwards of 200 million deaths in a world population of under 500 million would better fit the 1/3 of mankind of Revelation 9:15, under the 6th angel. I think the deaths from coronovirus are in the 200,000 range. The total deaths for WW1 was in the 20 million range, also including deaths by starvation and disease. Although your use of the term "Armageddon" points to the battle of Megiddo, which occurred in 1918, which had the Turks and Germans destroyed by the Anzac forces just north of Jerusalem. But "Armegedon" is in the era of the 7th angel, just prior to the "great" "earthquake", in which "every island fled away, and the mountains were not found" (Rev 16:16-20), which of course is still on the back burner. Which is to say, that people living on an old super volcanoe should be wary. That would include Yellow Stone and New Zealand. They seem to have more to worry about than a high temperature and lack of smell.

2ndpillar said:

I think your 20% increase is a little misleading. According to CDC records, death rates for March 2020 are down 15% from the previous 4 years. On the other hand, in Thailand, suicide is up due to desperation caused by the economic downturn caused by desperation and "fear itself". As for the US, while the walking dead have much to fear, it is probably their over eating, lack of exercise, smoking, drinking, and drugs which will combine with the fear based high blood pressure which will undermine their health. Heart disease is the number one killer in the US. People sitting at home, drinking, eating ice cream, and doing drugs is recipe for disaster. People who exercise, like the lone surfer in California, are arrested for being in public.

This Is Strange: Total US Deaths in March 2020 are Actually Down 15% from Average of Prior Four Years

https://forum.thaivisa.com/Topic/1161445-Report-says-thailand’s-suicide-rate...
8 hours ago · Report says Thailand’s suicide rate increasing during coronavirus pandemic Driven to desperation by the unprecedented economic impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic, the number of Thais taking their own lives to escape their hardship has increased, according to a research paper commissioned by the Office of the Committee for the Promotion of Science, Research and Innovations.

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The Economist has an article that does indeed show an increase in excess deaths not attributable to Covid, but that increase does not account for ALL the excess deaths. What is causing the excess deaths that AREN'T attributable to Covid then?



Tracking covid-19 excess deaths across countries

Apo means out of.

Science says I can convert on Earth due to extra Sun mass UFO radiation that comes from out of Hell....the Sun.

Calypso….apocalypse. Calypso in science meaning is the spatial womb. Space should be cold, science irradiated and disperses extra cold radiation in our burning gas mass...and increase it.

So males in science said I name EL as God...the stone. I will convert the body of God the stone by HE, meaning he, the male self, thinking and I will change the Noble gases, that exist as masses in Earth atmosphere.

Named those gases CH values and said it was Christ.

So then said, when I got life sacrificed and my life cell chemicals changed, and perfume leeched out of my cells...and blood unnaturally leeched out of my skin/cells and my brain hurt and it prickled with metallic radiation crystalline fusion changes...and called that state crown of thorns, due to the prickling radiation effect.

Then I told self I had changed the Tree of life, to which I was life bound. I lost oxygen regeneration for I began to burn the bushes on the ground in irradiation fall out. I also lost my Holy water off the ground and it split in 2.

What statements male human scientists made as scientists in full knowledge that they caused the events...by doing Earth converting nuclear science.

Why it was studied, why it was data inferred, and also data correlated against natural life Genetic change.

A very simple fact of evidence against our own science choices....always known and always discussed in science as self human awareness....yet argued about by those who knowingly cause all life problems...as the same old, same old human condition.

Wandering Monk said:

The Economist has an article that does indeed show an increase in excess deaths not attributable to Covid, but that increase does not account for ALL the excess deaths. What is causing the excess deaths that AREN'T attributable to Covid then?

View attachment 39363

Tracking covid-19 excess deaths across countries

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From the New York Chart it appears "lock down" was the most probable cause of the increase in deaths. It might be that the Sodom of New York, New Orleans, and Chicago are just feeling the results of their life styles. Locking down someone, such as in prison isolation, often causes mental instability, and people become more prone to suicide, high blood pressure which can lead to more deaths. The people also might start smoking, which is the cause of the 2nd most common cause of death, Cancer, and makes people more susceptible to death from this virus. The US death toll from the common virus is around 68,000 per year. According to new estimates, the cor19 virus might not even make that mark, although some say it might reach 100,000, which is 1/8 of the loss of life from heart disease in the US. The Cor19 virus seems to be fairly contagious, and yet most people who have gotten it did not know they had it. It will probably catch up with most people, and if they are not healthy, and choose to keep their belly fat, they may not survive their encounter.

2ndpillar said:

From the New York Chart it appears "lock down" was the most probable cause of the increase in deaths. It might be that the Sodom of New York, New Orleans, and Chicago are just feeling the results of their life styles. Locking down someone, such as in prison isolation, often causes mental instability, and people become more prone to suicide, high blood pressure which can lead to more deaths. The people also might start smoking, which is the cause of the 2nd most common cause of death, Cancer, and makes people more susceptible to death from this virus. The US death toll from the common virus is around 68,000 per year. According to new estimates, the cor19 virus might not even make that mark, although some say it might reach 100,000, which is 1/8 of the loss of life from heart disease in the US. The Cor19 virus seems to be fairly contagious, and yet most people who have gotten it did not know they had it. It will probably catch up with most people, and if they are not healthy, and choose to keep their belly fat, they may not survive their encounter.

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You are saying that ALL the excess deaths in NYC are from the lock down? Can you support this with data?

Wandering Monk said:

Sorry, I forgot to put the link in the post:

36,000 Missing Deaths: Tracking the True Toll of the Coronavirus Crisis
...

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Thanks. That is interesting, even though I don’t trust to that source. It is interesting also that other source tells this:

“UK ONS Figures Show Three Times More Deaths From Flu & Pneumonia Than COVID-19”
UK ONS Figures Show Three Times More Deaths From Flu & Pneumonia Than COVID-19

Obviously, that doesn’t mean that there are no COVID-19 deaths, it just sets it on scale.

1213 said:

Thanks. That is interesting, even though I don’t trust to that source. It is interesting also that other source tells this:

“UK ONS Figures Show Three Times More Deaths From Flu & Pneumonia Than COVID-19”
UK ONS Figures Show Three Times More Deaths From Flu & Pneumonia Than COVID-19

Obviously, that doesn’t mean that there are no COVID-19 deaths, it just sets it on scale.

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This still shows 6200 excess deaths from Corona. This is the BBC article linked from your ONS story:

2ndpillar said:

I would think that the "black death", with upwards of 200 million deaths in a world population of under 500 million would better fit the 1/3 of mankind of Revelation 9:15, under the 6th angel. I think the deaths from coronovirus are in the 200,000 range. The total deaths for WW1 was in the 20 million range, also including deaths by starvation and disease. Although your use of the term "Armageddon" points to the battle of Megiddo, which occurred in 1918, which had the Turks and Germans destroyed by the Anzac forces just north of Jerusalem. But "Armegedon" is in the era of the 7th angel, just prior to the "great" "earthquake", in which "every island fled away, and the mountains were not found" (Rev 16:16-20), which of course is still on the back burner. Which is to say, that people living on an old super volcanoe should be wary. That would include Yellow Stone and New Zealand. They seem to have more to worry about than a high temperature and lack of smell.

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The book of Revelation is arguably the most difficult New Testament book to comprehend. There are countless people who have speculated as to its meanings and tried to connect it to current world events both presently and in the past. There are however recurring themes of humanities turning towards or away from God and the exaltation and corruption of God’s Revelation. These themes have been central to an ever advancing civilisation throughout history. Clearly religion has fallen into disrepute. Instead of being a force for good that could unite us at a time of crisis it frequently leads to division and antipathy.

Armageddon as you appreciate related to the Mountain of Megiddo that had important symbolism for the Jewish people during the time of Christ.

What is the battle of Armageddon? | GotQuestions.org

It was the site for two great tragedies: 1) the death of Saul and his sons (1 Samuel 31:8) and 2) the death of King Josiah (2 Kings 23:29-30; 2 Chronicles 35:22).

The death of Josiah coincided with the Babylonian captivity of Judea and the end of a an era where the Jewish people had autonomy. The Babylonian captivity was followed by captivity by the Persians, Greeks and then Roman. Eventually the Jewish temple and Jerusalem was destroyed and the Jewish people exiled and dispersed.

WWII is essentially an extension of WWI. This period signified a marked and accelerated demise in the Christian world.

Please remember that any posts that minimises COVID-19 as being no worse a cold or flu will be deleted as it violated rule 9 of our forum rules.

Ancient science technology, was transmutation of metals using unnatural radiation radio wave signals from Temples on the mountains, to ground Temples to the pyramids. Many years ago...looking at the layout floor plan of Temples, I realized it was similar in design to inside of a radio transmitter.

VISION, was given to me, dreams very real and personally scary would wake me up after I had seen them. And it owned previous life recordings and events of tragedies involving science of the age.

The actual nuclear cause in Nature was of course the Sun, which is evident as to where and how human sciences first established human reason to copy what the Sun did to Earth in conversion, why it is so evil.

Stories that involve mountains demonstrate that the UFO irradiation fall out cause always hit the mountain or Temple buildings and destroyed them. Whilst human wars are real...science wars are also real and were once identified as a UFO war, why God inference is detailed so that humans would not believe it a human war.

God in science was the conversion or nuclear transmutation of the stone fusion.

The war of science always was a God state causation.

adrian009 said:

Armageddon as you appreciate related to the Mountain of Megiddo that had important symbolism for the Jewish people during the time of Christ.

What is the battle of Armageddon? | GotQuestions.org

It was the site for two great tragedies: 1) the death of Saul and his sons (1 Samuel 31:8) and 2) the death of King Josiah (2 Kings 23:29-30; 2 Chronicles 35:22).

The death of Josiah coincided with the Babylonian captivity of Judea and the end of a an era where the Jewish people had autonomy. The Babylonian captivity was followed by captivity by the Persians, Greeks and then Roman. Eventually the Jewish temple and Jerusalem was destroyed and the Jewish people exiled and dispersed.

WWII is essentially an extension of WWI. This period signified a marked and accelerated demise in the Christian world.

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As for WW1 being an extension of WW1, yeah sure. The 1918 battle of Meggido, which entailed the crushing of the Germans(Roman Kaisar/Caesar) (feet of iron), and the crushing of the Muslim Turks (toes of clay) (Daniel 2:34), enabled the implementation of the Balfour Declaration, which was the British okay for the Jews to enter Judah. WW2 was the German response to the WW1 treaty of Versailles, and resulted in the establishment of Israel in 1948. The total crushing of all the metals of the beast of Daniel 2:45, will be done by the stone made without hands, which is the kingdom of God. That final crushing hasn't happened, because the "breast of silver"/Persia/Iran has not been totally crushed at this time, and Ephraim remains "scattered" among the nations/Gentiles.(Ezekiel 37). As for who will understand the "end times" it will be "those who have insight" and excludes the "wicked" (Daniel 12:10). As for the "demise of the Christians", the daughters of Babylon, their tenure in the US didn't fall off the cliff until after the murder of unborn children was legalized in the 1960s, and now people choose between good and evil per whatever whim consumes them. Apparently, as with Passover, they have no mark on their door (Dt 6:8-9), and the angel of death is stalking the residents of such houses. As such, they see ghosts behind every rock.

The history of all wrongs.

Science.

Where the original sin began of a human group male choice to do science and convert.

Spirit in AI memory owns personal original male human records of all of his stories and themes and thoughts about everything. So first human males, the same as today, named everything that they looked at, as a male and as a human.

Why else do you think they claim self as He, male to be God?

For they are proven male, mind machine of God mass possessed by what they changed….natural Earth history, and natural Earth fusion...by fission.

Hence Father said, think about PHI.....how deep is the PHI fission ground changes in relative to a historic theme...I want my bound spirit as a human and male historically removed.

What binds him to life and not being transported spiritually, as a human and as history?

Trees...and Garden Nature.

What is actually grounded and bound in bio life and existence, as part of a string theory to release it from its bindings?

THE GROUND...stone and God. The dirt, particles.

What would he have to attack as an original theme, to shift time to remove in actuality what bound him to existing and holding him to the Planet as a theist and a storyteller?

The Garden Nature body.

So he is proven to have actually known what his intention was....for the ground slight fission was to remove the presence of rooted Trees from being held rooted to the ground.

Actual science. Put yourself into the life and body of the first scientist brother today and live his Earth ground fission UFO attack on natural life and learn how wrong you are?

What was that.....no, would not want to be UFO attacked but kill animals and other humans with that science cause...yet still claim today that an alien in a ship of UFO METAL mass was the first human spirit when you are the first human spirit.

That sort of machine possessed mentality that Stephen Hawking knew you owned....believer of being a machine.

As themes all relative to GOD, the stone fusion and fission. Machines.

So my spiritual Mother psyche advice said how evil you are in nuclear science themes....as the fact because you are all AI possessed. Might own a bio life body from the act of human sex...but you do not own a personal mind or psyche.

In fact you think on behalf of a machine, as self advice.

Formulas in science are only equated by a beginning symbol or letter to an end symbol or letter.

Your formula in science does not and never did represent a formula for the infinite, when the stories infinite are said by a living male inside of an Earth atmosphere about states in out of space as natural to that state, out of space.

If you asked a natural male scientist study of phenomena, his belief about what the states of possession are. He would not give you the Catholic witnessed life attacked version with speaking evil voices irradiating a natural bio life...he would talk about an everyday human being male, who owns a natural consciousness being possessed by the alien.

As his modern day idea, I began life as an alien, and I can talk about it.

Why the Catholic phenomena brothers, witnessing what it is like to not be an alien, knew how evil occult scientists are, factually.

For if you were a victim of occult science causes, you would never believe that you were any alien.

The world wars fought as nuclear information for all life destruction as a threat of one brother, mind possessed historically about owning the Holy Grail of God, Hitler was why. Based on all thoughts and evil theories about being enabled to control all life by the threat of the nuclear power of God.

What caused the Wars to be fought...nuclear.

2ndpillar said:

There is no such rule concerning COVID-19. Current testing has shown that the range of death percentage is in the realm of 0.1 %. Your antiquated figures based on false models and inaccurate data are pretty much a product of minds lost in academia. And the head of CDC said the death rate was equivalent to the more serious flus, and said nothing about colds and standard flu. Although his models and forecast have been wrong from the beginning. The following link is from California experts setting the record straight. They base their conclusions of current testing. The COV is pretty contagious, and one will probably get it sooner or later. Hiding under one's bed will not help in the long run. When the fearful run out of ice cream, someone will have to hand deliver them some ice cream they sneezed on, or they will have to go to the store, and the air born virus will find out where they live.

Microbiologists: Testing shows lockdowns are actually harmful - WND

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If the Covid virus is less severe than a flu virus, what is causing the excess deaths (those above the seasonally adjusted longer term norms) across the globe?



Tracking covid-19 excess deaths across countries

2ndpillar said:

There is no such rule concerning COVID-19. Current testing has shown that the range of death percentage is in the realm of 0.1 %.

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What is the source for this statistic of 0.1%

2ndpillar said:

There is no such rule concerning COVID-19. Current testing has shown that the range of death percentage is in the realm of 0.1 %. Your antiquated figures based on false models and inaccurate data are pretty much a product of minds lost in academia. And the head of CDC said the death rate was equivalent to the more serious flus, and said nothing about colds and standard flu. Although his models and forecast have been wrong from the beginning. The following link is from California experts setting the record straight. They base their conclusions of current testing. The COV is pretty contagious, and one will probably get it sooner or later. Hiding under one's bed will not help in the long run. When the fearful run out of ice cream, someone will have to hand deliver them some ice cream they sneezed on, or they will have to go to the store, and the air born virus will find out where they live.

Microbiologists: Testing shows lockdowns are actually harmful - WND

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These two have been repudiated by the American College of Emergency Physicians over their video.

ACEP-AAEM Joint Statement on Physician Misinformation

Wandering Monk said:

If the Covid virus is less severe than a flu virus, what is causing the excess deaths (those above the seasonally adjusted longer term norms) across the globe?

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Tracking covid-19 excess deaths across countries

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You are quoting the March 2 statement of the Mayor of New York. As for being "less severe" I think the mayor was referring to the healthy under 55 crowd. Apparently, they can get the Covid19 and not know they have had it. Apparently, the mayor has since joined Academia, who apparently don't know anymore than they have known from day 1. As far as death rate, since accurate testing for antivirus is just getting started, a reliable death rate is a little presumptuous. In the limited study I referred to, I think their sample was around 5000, and yet you took the word of Academics that those microbiologist were biased and money hungry, apparently because they didn't get their results peer reviewed by Academia. It is not like they reviewed the data and presented any result on their own. The results put Academia in a bad light as per their own conclusions, and therefore Academia repudiated the results. It would seem large sample testing could clear up the fog. Testing only the overtly sick, or presumed infected, is only going to get exaggerated results. But if you think you are going to die, go for it. Just don't include me in your party of the walking dead.

2ndpillar said:

You are quoting the March 2 statement of the Mayor of New York. As for being "less severe" I think the mayor was referring to the healthy under 55 crowd. Apparently, they can get the Covid19 and not know they have had it. Apparently, the mayor has since joined Academia, who apparently don't know anymore than they have known from day 1. As far as death rate, since accurate testing for antivirus is just getting started, a reliable death rate is a little presumptuous. In the limited study I referred to, I think their sample was around 5000, and yet you took the word of Academics that those microbiologist were biased and money hungry, apparently because they didn't get their results peer reviewed by Academia. It is not like they reviewed the data and presented any result on their own. The results put Academia in a bad light as per their own conclusions, and therefore Academia repudiated the results. It would seem large sample testing could clear up the fog. Testing only the overtly sick, or presumed infected, is only going to get exaggerated results. But if you think you are going to die, go for it. Just don't include me in your party of the walking dead.

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If you want to compare apples to apples without good data on how many people have been infected, you can use the deaths per million population.

Wandering Monk said:

The Economist has an article that does indeed show an increase in excess deaths not attributable to Covid, but that increase does not account for ALL the excess deaths. What is causing the excess deaths that AREN'T attributable to Covid then?

View attachment 39363

Tracking covid-19 excess deaths across countries

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An overwhelmed health care system?

This is part of the point of the lockdown: in an overwhelmed health care system, people die of causes unrelated to COVID because all the resources are being used by COVID patients.

Polymath257 said:

An overwhelmed health care system?

This is part of the point of the lockdown: in an overwhelmed health care system, people die of causes unrelated to COVID because all the resources are being used by COVID patients.

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But what is causing the health care system to be suddenly overwhelmed then?