The horsemen of Revelation

viole · Apr 26, 2020

Vee said:
I know a lot of people attribute all this to coincidence, but I don't believe in coincidences much, so when I look at many of the things happening the last few decades, and especially in recent years, the image of the horseman of Revelation comes to mind: the fiery horse of warfare, the black horse of famine, the pale horse of death and the white horse of righteousness.
Wars all over the place, food scarcity affecting large amounts of people and disease (we even have a pandemic to worry about at the moment) are all too common. I can't help but see a connection.

i would not call it coincidence. There have always been famine, death and war. It would be a coincidence to have none of those things at any given moment in time.

So, all this is sort of ordinary. Actually, it was much worse in the past.

ciao

- viole

Vee · Apr 26, 2020

sayak83 said:
You forget the 1st World War, the 2nd World War...or almost every such crisis that occurred in human history quite a lot.

I'm counting those on the "recent events". They weren't that long ago.

Hellbound Serpiente · Apr 26, 2020

I wouldn't call those recent events, humanity has progressed and advanced significantly as compared to those eras. Thanks to the technological and medical advancements, a simple shot can cure diseases that could easily kill a person back then. Thanks to the same advancements, saving a human life has become far much easier.

We have come a long way since WW1 and WW2, and may God keep making the world a better place for our future generations

InChrist · Apr 26, 2020

Rival said:
The Black Death spread globally. It was the most fatal plague we've ever seen.

The Crusades covered two continents.

The Timurid Empire was established and that killed millions of people across Asia.

Islamic conquests were still taking place.

The Great Famine happened in Europe.

The Ottoman Empire was still spreading.

Was Israel an established nation back in the land or were the Jewish people still scattered among various countries? I think the answer to that determines ( from a biblical perspective anyway) whether the famines/plagues you’ve mentioned or the events we see at present more closely align with the end of the age, along with other indicators that are in place.

Rival · Apr 26, 2020

InChrist said:
Was Israel an established nation back in the land or were the Jewish people still scattered among various countries? I think the answer to that determines whether the famines/plagues you’ve mentioned or the events we see at present more closely align with the end of the age, along with other indicators that are in place.

They were in exile, but there have always been some Jews living in Israel.

As I don't believe in the book this OP is using, I don't care either way.

robocop (actually) · Apr 26, 2020

Vee said:
I know a lot of people attribute all this to coincidence, but I don't believe in coincidences much, so when I look at many of the things happening the last few decades, and especially in recent years, the image of the horseman of Revelation comes to mind: the fiery horse of warfare, the black horse of famine, the pale horse of death and the white horse of righteousness.
Wars all over the place, food scarcity affecting large amounts of people and disease (we even have a pandemic to worry about at the moment) are all too common. I can't help but see a connection.

Wars are at an all-time low.

InChrist · Apr 26, 2020

Rival said:
They were in exile, but there have always been some Jews living in Israel.

As I don't believe in the book this OP is using, I don't care either way.

Okay, I can see how you wouldn’t care if you don’t consider the book of Revelation valid, I agree some Jews were always present in the land of Israel. I just think the scriptures (even such as prophecies from Daniel or Jeremiah) are pretty clear that the end of the age would not happen until Israel was established again as a nation.

74x12 · Apr 26, 2020

Vee said:
I know a lot of people attribute all this to coincidence, but I don't believe in coincidences much, so when I look at many of the things happening the last few decades, and especially in recent years, the image of the horseman of Revelation comes to mind: the fiery horse of warfare, the black horse of famine, the pale horse of death and the white horse of righteousness.
Wars all over the place, food scarcity affecting large amounts of people and disease (we even have a pandemic to worry about at the moment) are all too common. I can't help but see a connection.

The pale horse is actually green in Greek. That's important because it's the favorite color of Islam.

I believe it's possible the red horse could be communism, the black = capitalism, the green could be Islam and the white may be satan's counterfeit Christianity.

Left Coast · Apr 26, 2020

InChrist said:
Okay, I can see how you wouldn’t care if you don’t consider the book of Revelation valid, I agree some Jews were always present in the land of Israel. I just think the scriptures (even such as prophecies from Daniel or Jeremiah) are pretty clear that the end of the age would not happen until Israel was established again as a nation.

But modern Israel isn't some restoration of "Biblical," 2nd Temple Judaism. It's a secular democratic state.

And lots of Jews are still "scattered" throughout Gentile nations.

InChrist · Apr 26, 2020

Left Coast said:
But modern Israel isn't some restoration of "Biblical," 2nd Temple Judaism. It's a secular democratic state.

And lots of Jews are still "scattered" throughout Gentile nations.

Yes, you are correct. I believe the scriptures indicate the Jews would initially be brought back to the land and the nation of Israel established in secular unbelief. This indicates the nearness of the end of the church age of grace and the time when God will focus upon Israel again and the unbelieving world during the 7 year tribulation period at which time the temple will be rebuilt.

Good-Ole-Rebel · Apr 26, 2020

Vee said:
I know a lot of people attribute all this to coincidence, but I don't believe in coincidences much, so when I look at many of the things happening the last few decades, and especially in recent years, the image of the horseman of Revelation comes to mind: the fiery horse of warfare, the black horse of famine, the pale horse of death and the white horse of righteousness.
Wars all over the place, food scarcity affecting large amounts of people and disease (we even have a pandemic to worry about at the moment) are all too common. I can't help but see a connection.

It certainly isn't coincidence. We are always moving towards that day. I am dispensational and pre-trib, and do not see the many things you describe as being part of that explained in the book of (Revelation). But they are leading up to it without a doubt.

As Christians we recognize that satan is always moving forward in his mystery of iniquity, preparing the world for his man. And even he doesn't know when the time will be, as God is the One who dictates that. So, he, satan, must have thing in order ready to go at anytime. So it is not wrong for us to recognize that things are lined up to the degree that this could be the time. It doesn't mean it will be, but it could be.

So, though I don't believe these things we see are the things in the book of (Revelation), I believe we are very close to those things being initiated. I believe the props are in place for the start of the Tribulation. And of course prior to that, as pre-trib, I believe the Rapture will occur first taking the Church out of here.

It is an interesting time.

Good-Ole-Rebel

ChristineM · Apr 26, 2020

cataway said:
thats fare from world wide

Considering the Americas and Australasia were unknown then yes it was world wide. Known world.

Left Coast · Apr 26, 2020

InChrist said:
Yes, you are correct. I believe the scriptures indicate the Jews would initially be brought back to the land and the nation of Israel established in secular unbelief.

Fascinating, what verse(s) do you interpret to indicate that?

Dawnofhope · Apr 26, 2020

Vee said:
I know a lot of people attribute all this to coincidence, but I don't believe in coincidences much, so when I look at many of the things happening the last few decades, and especially in recent years, the image of the horseman of Revelation comes to mind: the fiery horse of warfare, the black horse of famine, the pale horse of death and the white horse of righteousness.
Wars all over the place, food scarcity affecting large amounts of people and disease (we even have a pandemic to worry about at the moment) are all too common. I can't help but see a connection.

The book of Revelation is arguably the most difficult New Testament book to comprehend. There are countless people who have speculated as to its meanings and tried to connect it to current world events both presently and in the past. I would argue that many, though not all of the events have occurred already. There are however recurring themes of humanities turning towards or away from God and the exaltation and corruption of God’s Revelation. The four horsemen of the apocalypse are largely about the corruption of religion and its consequences. That is a theme that’s been central to an ever advancing civilisation throughout history. Its manifest clearly today as religion as fallen into disrepute. Instead of being a force for good that could unite us at a time of crisis it frequently leads to division and antipathy.

osgart · Apr 26, 2020

DANIEL 12:4 KJV "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run..."

This passage I thought was one that I thought very coincidental to the age we live in. Couple that with the again rising of a secular Jewish nation and it's very coincidental that three prophecies or predictions have come to pass. However I'm not convinced that anything in the OT is historical fact.

ISAIAH 42:5 KJV "Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the..."

ISAIAH 53:5 KJV "But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of..."

These are more verses of OT prophecies that stir Christians up.

To me Isaiah and Daniel is what the whole Christian religion is built off of.

InChrist · Apr 26, 2020

Left Coast said:
Fascinating, what verse(s) do you interpret to indicate that?

The prophetic passage in Ezekiel 36:16-24, especially...

Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. 23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the Lord,” says the Lord God, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land.

Once the church is removed and God deals again directly with Israel He will begin cleansing His people through the following 7 year tribulation period, also known as Jacob’s trouble (Jeremiah 30:7) until the entire remnant believes and all Israel will be saved.

Romans 11:25-27
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins."

Left Coast · Apr 26, 2020

InChrist said:
The prophetic passage in Ezekiel 36:16-24, especially...

Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. 23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the Lord,” says the Lord God, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land.

Once the church is removed and God deals again directly with Israel He will begin cleansing His people through the following 7 year tribulation period, also known as Jacob’s trouble (Jeremiah 30:7) until the entire remnant believes and all Israel will be saved.

Romans 11:25-27
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins."

Where do either of these passages say that Israel will initially be a secular democratic state before it becomes a theocratic one?

InChrist · Apr 26, 2020

Left Coast said:
Where do either of these passages say that Israel will initially be a secular democratic state before it becomes a theocratic one?

The Bible doesn’t use the term secular or democratic state. The passage clearly shows the nation of Israel as living apart from God’s will or rule, which is the case of modern Israel as a secular nation, but that God will turn them back to Himself.
Of course, that doesn’t mean all the people in Israel are secular. There are many orthodox and those who desire to serve God. Nevertheless, the government/nation is secular as you pointed out.

Left Coast · Apr 26, 2020

InChrist said:
The Bible doesn’t use the term secular or democratic state. The passage clearly shows the nation of Israel as living apart from God’s will or rule, which is the case of modern Israel as a secular nation, but that God will turn them back to Himself.

But that's always been the case. The whole Hebrew Bible is the story of Israel in a constant cycle of rebellion and repentance.

Both passages actually speak of Israel's transgressions as past tense or present tense at the time of writing, not future tense. So the founding of a secular, democratic Israeli state didn't change that one iota.

URAVIP2ME · Apr 26, 2020

Left Coast said:
But that's always been the case. The whole Hebrew Bible is the story of Israel in a constant cycle of rebellion and repentance.
Both passages actually speak of Israel's transgressions as past tense or present tense at the time of writing, not future tense. So the founding of a secular, democratic Israeli state didn't change that one iota.

'Not future tense' because since Pentecost the 'Israel of God' is a ' spiritual nation ' ( the Christian congregation ) and Not a fleshly national nation.
Since Pentecost it is Jerusalem ' above ' as the seat of government - Galatians 4:26.
Now it s a Jew by spirit according to Romans 2:28-29.
Spiritual Israel is a spiritual nation Not found located on any map and has No borders nor boundaries - see 1 Peter 2:9 .
1 Peter 2:5 is now about making 'spiritual sacrifices'- the fruit of one's lips - Hebrews 13:15.

The horsemen of Revelation

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