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If this pandemic/pestilece is a sign of the end..next sign is in the heavens

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
Right. He may not be seen when He comes for His people, but who knows if the weather or sky would be affected somehow? (He will be seen when He comes to land on earth and take over, of course)
Actually, you have to be careful with translations there...
While the day of the Lord cometh as a thief in the night, the actual return of Christ will be quite apparent. Many will not know it is about to happen until it happens -or what is actually happening while it happens -but THAT it is happening will be very apparent when it does.

1 Thes 5:1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

also...

Luke 17:23People will tell you, ‘Look, there He is!’ or ‘Look, here He is!’ Do not go out or chase after them. 24For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other, so will be the Son of Man in His day. 25But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

Isaiah 40:5 The glory of the Lord shall be revealed,And all flesh shall see it together; For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”


Joel 2:1Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
2A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
3A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
4The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
5Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
6Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
7They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
8Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
9They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
10The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
11And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
 

MNoBody

Well-Known Member
according to what i have read the ones who reckoned the stars and the seasons kept at it undeterred for thousands of years,
which is what it takes to figure out things like say..precession...and say,make predictive modeling to determine pole star changes, [we have 7 pole stars and these have been changing over vast periods of time to our perspective]

patience is required to make celestial observations of value to us, and superstitions often cloud the way....however only the foolish dismiss ancient myths as being primitive since they reveal astronomical data that isn't possible to compile if they were idiots as depicted in schools today
 

dad

Undefeated
I was looking at a video the other day of a light -which became three lights -moving in a circle -clouds outside the circle -no clouds within the circle.

I have seen some pretty weird stuff, but even my immediate reaction to such things either that it is a hoax, drones, etc...

I was thinking that if such were something truly significant and abnormal, it would have to be extremely impressive -and many would have to see it/experience it at the same time -for it to be considered significant.

Even then, there are reports of mass sightings of things in the sky -but if one was not there, they would have no reference.

What would it really take for the whole world to say "ummmmmmm.... what was that? o_O "

Not all signs in the sky, real or imagined are GREAT signs.
 

dad

Undefeated
Actually, you have to be careful with translations there...
While the day of the Lord cometh as a thief in the night, the actual return of Christ will be quite apparent. Many will not know it is about to happen until it happens -or what is actually happening while it happens -but THAT it is happening will be very apparent when it does.
His coming TO earth with the saints is apparent. His coming in the sky to take us to be where He is in the sky with Him will be apparent to believers. I am not sure what the world will see.



1 Thes 5:1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: a
When He returns TO the earth the mount splits etc. That is long after the Rapture.



Luke 17:23People will tell you, ‘Look, there He is!’ or ‘Look, here He is!’ Do not go out or chase after them. 24For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other, so will be the Son of Man in His day. 25But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

Isaiah 40:5 The glory of the Lord shall be revealed,And all flesh shall see it together; For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”
Again that is talking about the return to earth at the end.



Joel 2:1Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
2A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
3A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
4The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
5Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
6Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
7They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
8Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
9They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
10The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
11And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
All this is about His return TO earth.
 

MNoBody

Well-Known Member
why rely on only the weathermen when anyone can just go outside and have a good look for themselves
curious. hmmm
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Yet your opinion is opposed to Scripture. What evidence do you have we are all blessed rather than sinners?

There is no written authority. This is your nature. You don't need to go beyond your nature (not your ego) to see you are blessed. However, you can depreciate your nature by condemning yourself (or see yourself condemned) in order to act right or you can act right with the blessings of god. Not a lot of us need that negative incentive.

What is wrong with seeing the positive in one's true nature rather than negative?

Do you really want to see yourself deprived rather than blessed???
 

dad

Undefeated
There is no written authority.
Jesus said otherwise.

This is your nature. You don't need to go beyond your nature (not your ego) to see you are blessed. However, you can depreciate your nature by condemning yourself (or see yourself condemned) in order to act right or you can act right with the blessings of god. Not a lot of us need that negative incentive.
The bible also tells us what the nature of man is like. Desperately wicked.
What is wrong with seeing the positive in one's true nature rather than negative?
Because pretending we can save ourselves by works and some inner goodness leads to doom.
Do you really want to see yourself deprived rather than blessed???
By recognizing we are sinners and need His salvation we are blessed.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Jesus said otherwise.

This belief doesn't change that you're born blessed. We just loose track and find outside parties to help us. Which is fine up until you make those outside parties a necessity for someone else's salvation too.

The bible also tells us what the nature of man is like. Desperately wicked.

We are not wicked.

What is wrong with seeing us born blessed by god?

Because pretending we can save ourselves by works and some inner goodness leads to doom.

Who said we are pretending?

We are not drowning. God would be helping us Not to drown not wait for us to drown ourselves to help us out.

We are blessed from the get-go.

By recognizing we are sinners and need His salvation we are blessed.

We are not sinners (not born sinners). We don't need salvation because we are not wicked to begin with. Either we can accept this fact or not.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
So people made up a story that sounds ridiculous, so they say people will ridicule it and pretend that countsd as evidence it's real?

If I tell you that Barney the Dinosaur will be revealed as ultimate ruler of the universe and that he told me that people would ridicule me for making that claim, would you count people ridiculing me for it as evidence that I am correct?

No?

Then why do you make the same argument?
Not making the same argument.
True anyone can make up a story and if it’s ridiculous that should be obvious to all. That’s not often the case though because even intelligent people are easily deceived.

I just watched a six part documentary series on the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh ( Ohso) movement which happened in eastern Oregon back in the late 80’s. The majority of this guru’s followers were educated lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc. who were willing to believe every deceptive word that came out of his mouth or not (during times of silence) and give him piles of money for his 20 something Rolls Royces and expensive clothes and jewelry.

Yet, God the Creator has revealed HIStory and verified it with real people, real names, real family genealogies, real nations, real places, real time frames, real events set in human history, while also providing prophetic insight into the unfolding of future events on earth.

But the fool says there is no God and won’t believe His story which is revealed reality... but likely many will all too willingly believe another story and give all their allegiance to a good liar.
 

dad

Undefeated
This belief doesn't change that you're born blessed. We just loose track and find outside parties to help us. Which is fine up until you make those outside parties a necessity for someone else's salvation too.



We are not wicked.

What is wrong with seeing us born blessed by god?



Who said we are pretending?

We are not drowning. God would be helping us Not to drown not wait for us to drown ourselves to help us out.

We are blessed from the get-go.



We are not sinners (not born sinners). We don't need salvation because we are not wicked to begin with. Either we can accept this fact or not.
You have an opinion opposed to God's word. Is that it?
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Never seen anything like this worldwide in my life. Yes, there was plagues and pandemics in history. The frequency and severity do seem to be growing.

Got news for you... history extends FAR beyond just your life. Perhaps you should study it and you'd realize that the frequency and severity is NOT growing. In fact, due to a lack of understanding of basic hygiene and how viruses spread, outbreaks like this were far worse and more common in the past.
 

dad

Undefeated
Got news for you... history extends FAR beyond just your life. Perhaps you should study it and you'd realize that the frequency and severity is NOT growing. In fact, due to a lack of understanding of basic hygiene and how viruses spread, outbreaks like this were far worse and more common in the past.

I have a new approach now. Rather than focus on the signs as a whole, I am dividing them into time appropriate sections. So here are the signs that seem to lead up to the doors of that final seven-year period.

From Mark...[war, earthquakes, pestilences, famines]

From Luke..
[war, earthquakes, famines, pestilences, fearful sights in heavens]

From Matthew..
[war, famines, pestilences, earthquakes]

This pestilence is possibly not one of the signs that we have entered the last seven years. It may be included in the signs that happen before the seven year period.

Perhaps it is preparing the way? Guess we'll find out soon enough.

A possible scenario is this pestilence could be preparing the way for war, the first sign in all the gospels of the final time of sorrows.

If a major world war with China and/or Iran or other nations resulted from this, we could enter the war/famine/pestilence/signs in the heaven phase pretty fast.

Looking at the order of signs in the three gospels I would guess that this pestilence may be one of those that happen before the final seven years.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
I have a new approach now. Rather than focus on the signs as a whole, I am dividing them into time appropriate sections. So here are the signs that seem to lead up to the doors of that final seven-year period.

From Mark...[war, earthquakes, pestilences, famines]

From Luke..
[war, earthquakes, famines, pestilences, fearful sights in heavens]

From Matthew..
[war, famines, pestilences, earthquakes]

This pestilence is possibly not one of the signs that we have entered the last seven years. It may be included in the signs that happen before the seven year period.

Perhaps it is preparing the way? Guess we'll find out soon enough.

A possible scenario is this pestilence could be preparing the way for war, the first sign in all the gospels of the final time of sorrows.

If a major world war with China and/or Iran or other nations resulted from this, we could enter the war/famine/pestilence/signs in the heaven phase pretty fast.

Looking at the order of signs in the three gospels I would guess that this pestilence may be one of those that happen before the final seven years.

How nice... so are you going to address what I wrote? Why did you claim that the outbreak of disease like we've been experiencing is more frequent and severe today when history shows that is clearly isn't?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
What is wrong with saying Jesus wasted His time dying horribly for us?

I never said he wasted his time. I said we are born blessed; and, why would we need to be saved from drowning when we are not drowning.

I asked. Why is it wrong to be born blessed rather than born cursed?
 

dad

Undefeated
How nice... so are you going to address what I wrote? Why did you claim that the outbreak of disease like we've been experiencing is more frequent and severe today when history shows that is clearly isn't?
The frequency and severity of judgments increase drastically as we get near the end of the seven-year period. I would think that even the signs that are at the start of that seven-year period would be more severe than similar events in the past.

The issue here then is whether this particular pestilence is at the beginning of that time of sorrows, or prior to it like all other signs so far have been.
 

dad

Undefeated
I never said he wasted his time. I said we are born blessed; and, why would we need to be saved from drowning when we are not drowning.

I asked. Why is it wrong to be born blessed rather than born cursed?
If we were blessed He died for nothing since He died to save us.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
If we were blessed He died for nothing since He died to save us.

If you are blessed at birth, you are already with god. So, there is no reason to be saved. You're not drowning.

So, inherited sin and salvation is better than inherited blessed and union with god?

Aka. You rather drown to be saved rather than saved from drowning? Why?
 
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Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
His coming TO earth with the saints is apparent. His coming in the sky to take us to be where He is in the sky with Him will be apparent to believers. I am not sure what the world will see.



When He returns TO the earth the mount splits etc. That is long after the Rapture.


Again that is talking about the return to earth at the end.



All this is about His return TO earth.

I don't believe in the rapture, as such.

It is understandable that some do -as some wording is confusing -but all scriptures taken together show the last trump when the dead are raised, then the living are caught up with them in the air -is also the seventh trump of Revelation -when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of the Lord.

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

That is indeed when one will be taken and another left, etc. -but happens at the last trump.Those which sleep are the dead in Christ -whose spirits returned to God and who will be raised immortal from the dead then.
They do meet the Lord in the air at that point, but they do not ascend to heaven to come back with him later -they become kings and priests and reign with him on Earth

Some are protected from the time of "great tribulation" -but on earth.

Anyway -big subject and off the original subject here
 
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