Thief
Rogue Theologian
you forgot that …..Thief
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Does God welcome everyone into heaven?
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
cataway
Well-Known Member
actually only Jesus went to heaven . and he was the first John 3:12
Facts:
The dead are asleep on their graves
The living know they are going to die
There are only 3 people who were taken up to heaven
Enoch, Elijah, and the Lord Jesus Christ
If I have told you earthly things and you still do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man.
cataway
Well-Known Member
well no , that man lay's in a grave . he was given the promise that he would live again . that paradise is/will be here on earth . to be alive is the prize
Revelation 20:5," the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed."
Thief
Rogue Theologian
this day you walk with Me in Paradise
if you would like to argue that Promise
pop a thread
Thief
Rogue Theologian
excuse me.....what is that?....on your head
surely you make no dogmatic practice.....
and that will follow you into the Kingdom?
cataway
Well-Known Member
that happens when ya put the comma in the wrong place it should read
And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.”
Last edited:
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Biblically, your questions are answered:
Even a murderer can enter Heaven (like St. Paul) but there are judgments on Earth and in Heaven for deeds we've done, good or evil.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Enoch was taken to heaven.
Genesis 5:21-24 New International Version (NIV)
When Enoch had lived 65 years, he became the father of Methuselah. After he became the father of Methuselah, Enoch walked faithfully with God 300 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether, Enoch lived a total of 365 years. Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.
Elijah was taken to heaven
2 Kings 2:1-12 New International Version (NIV)
When the Lord was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal. Elijah said to Elisha, “Stay here; the Lord has sent me to Bethel.”
But Elisha said, “As surely as the Lord lives and as you live, I will not leave you.” So they went down to Bethel.
The company of the prophets at Bethel came out to Elisha and asked, “Do you know that the Lord is going to take your master from you today?”
“Yes, I know,” Elisha replied, “so be quiet.”
Then Elijah said to him, “Stay here, Elisha; the Lord has sent me to Jericho.”
And he replied, “As surely as the Lord lives and as you live, I will not leave you.” So they went to Jericho.
The company of the prophets at Jericho went up to Elisha and asked him, “Do you know that the Lord is going to take your master from you today?”
“Yes, I know,” he replied, “so be quiet.”
Then Elijah said to him, “Stay here; the Lord has sent me to the Jordan.”
And he replied, “As surely as the Lord lives and as you live, I will not leave you.” So the two of them walked on.
Fifty men from the company of the prophets went and stood at a distance, facing the place where Elijah and Elisha had stopped at the Jordan. Elijah took his cloak, rolled it up and struck the water with it. The water divided to the right and to the left, and the two of them crossed over on dry ground.
When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, “Tell me, what can I do for you before I am taken from you?”
“Let me inherit a double portion of your spirit,” Elisha replied.
“You have asked a difficult thing,” Elijah said, “yet if you see me when I am taken from you, it will be yours—otherwise, it will not.”
As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind. Elisha saw this and cried out, “My father! My father! The chariots and horsemen of Israel!” And Elisha saw him no more. Then he took hold of his garment and tore it in two.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
It is true that Jesus said what is written in John 3:13 but to whom was he talking to?
Let us read the entire context not just one verse and erroneously jump to conclusions
The picture below is from JW.org
JW representation of Nicodemus and Jesus
John 3:1-13 New International Version (NIV)
Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”
“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.
“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
Questions arise from this verse:
Is the Bible wrong when it says Enoch was taken up by God?
Is the Bible wrong when it says Elijah was taken up by God?
I believe the Bible is correct when it says Enoch and Elijah was taken up to heaven.
To refuse is to be in error because what is written cannot be changed
Did Jesus taken up by God to heaven before he spoke to Nicodemus?
If so where is that in the Bible?
Or should we continue reading to verse 15 than cutting things short at 13
John 3:12-15 New International Version (NIV)
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
cataway
Well-Known Member
your evidently calling Jesus a liar . if any one would know if any one had preceded him self to heaven ,he would know it .It is true that Jesus said what is written in John 3:13 but to whom was he talking to?
Let us read the entire context not just one verse and erroneously jump to conclusions
The picture below is from JW.org
JW representation of Nicodemus and Jesus
John 3:1-13 New International Version (NIV)
Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”
“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.
“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
Questions arise from this verse:
Is the Bible wrong when it says Enoch was taken up by God?
Is the Bible wrong when it says Elijah was taken up by God?
I believe the Bible is correct when it says Enoch and Elijah was taken up to heaven.
To refuse is to be in error because what is written cannot be changed
Did Jesus taken up by God to heaven before he spoke to Nicodemus?
If so where is that in the Bible?
Or should we continue reading to verse 15 than cutting things short at 13
John 3:12-15 New International Version (NIV)
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
Nicodemus was not just told one thing. he was also told that he ,Jesus, would be hung on a pole . making his death known to Nicodemus before it happens .
. 14 "And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so the Son of man must be lifted up, "
and then he told him that there was/is a way to everlasting life.
15 ''so that everyone believing in him may have everlasting life.''
after being told and seeing it happen ,there would be no excuse for Nicodemus not to believe that Jesus is the Christ .
cataway
Well-Known Member
A number of years after his ascension in the windstorm Elijah is still alive and active as a prophet, this time to the king of Judah. Because of the wicked course taken by King Jehoram of Judah, Elijah writes him a letter expressing Jehovah’s condemnation, which is fulfilled shortly thereafter
(2 Chronicles 21:12-15) Eventually a written message came to him from E·liʹjah the prophet, saying: “This is what Jehovah the God of David your forefather says, ‘You have not walked in the ways of your father Je·hoshʹa·phat or in the ways of King Aʹsa of Judah. 13 But you walk in the way of the kings of Israel and cause Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to commit spiritual prostitution like the prostitution of the house of Aʹhab, and you even killed your own brothers, the household of your father, who were better than you. 14 Therefore, Jehovah is dealing a great blow to your people, to your sons, to your wives, and to all your possessions. 15 And you will suffer with many sicknesses, including a disease of your intestines, until your intestines come out
Bible tells eternal life is for righteous and other die. I believe it is so because unrighteous people would turn eternal life into eternal suffering for all, if they would live forever.
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
Spirit and soul are NOT the same thing. They are two different words with two different meanings. There is no such thing as "spiritual death" and the Bible NEVER says any such nonsense.
Death means to be dead and living means to be alive.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
What would be the criteria used to differentiate between those who know the true gospel and those who are following a false gospel? In other words, what is the 'standard' by which that could be judged?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Thanks for responding. That is a long post and I have a lot of posts to answer today, so I will pick out what jumps out at me. 
I believe that God wants us to turn away from our lower material nature and towards our higher spiritual nature because we see that concept throughout the scriptures.
I do not believe that God considers all men equal, be they are good or evil.
But I believe that God loves everyone nevertheless, because God is Love.
How can this be resolved?
I do not believe in the concept of 'saved' in a Christian sense because I do not believe in original sin, so I believe what we need to be saved from is our own lower material nature; you can call it our sinful nature or our selfish nature.
I believe that God wants us to turn away from our lower material nature and towards our higher spiritual nature because we see that concept throughout the scriptures.
I believe that Jesus was the mediator between God and mankind during His religious dispensation, but I do not believe that Jesus was the "one mediator" between God and mankind for all of eternity.
The salient problem is that many people "believe" that they "know" the truth that God teaches, but they do nor=t agree what that truth is. Why are you more qualified to interpret the Bible and what it means than other Christians?
I agree that everyone is subject to God's wrath.
I do not believe that God considers all men equal, be they are good or evil.
But I believe that God loves everyone nevertheless, because God is Love.
I agree, everyone should look for the truth and try to walk in it, but one person's truth is another person's lie...
How can this be resolved?