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When horses die do thire spirits go to heaven?

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
I ask this because 2 Kings 2:11 and 2 Kings 6:17.And Ecclesiastes 3:20.And Ecclesiastes 3:21.And Ecclesiastes 12:7.And Ecclesiastes 3:19.Could the horses have been made of matter and not spirit?:confused:
 
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Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I ask this because 2 Kings 2:11 and 2 Kings 6:17.And Ecclesiastes 3:20.And Ecclesiastes 3:21.And Ecclesiastes 12:7.And Ecclesiastes 3:19.Could the horses have been made of matter and not spirit?:confused:

I was out walking earlier. I stopped and saw a bird somewhat like below. Same size. A car hit him and there were feathers everywhere. I took a picture below.

bird.jpg

I stood there for a minute or two on the way out. When I came back, stood some more. Then said to myself whatever made him alive was sucked out of him. Then I thought about humans. Myself. (My aunt whose I did somewhat the same with her ashes in my hand). I shrugged and said there it is.

We have no soul. We have no spirit. We die. Whatever that's in us that made us alive-our energy, our breathe, our neurons, consciousness, etc-is. gone.

Horse spirits. Bird spirits. Human spirits. Doesn't matter. We're all in this together. Add trees. Rocks. and Motorbikes. and Computers. Everything came from the earth and the earth is always moving, turning, and forming, and dissipating. Life goes in. Life goes out.

Accepting it is the big key and making meaning in life without being attached to it.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
I ask this because 2 Kings 2:11 and 2 Kings 6:17.And Ecclesiastes 3:20.And Ecclesiastes 3:21.And Ecclesiastes 12:7.And Ecclesiastes 3:19.Could the horses have been made of matter and not spirit?:confused:

It is my understanding that all beings are of the same nature and thereby share the same experience upon death of their temporal body.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
I ask this because 2 Kings 2:11 and 2 Kings 6:17.And Ecclesiastes 3:20.And Ecclesiastes 3:21.And Ecclesiastes 12:7.And Ecclesiastes 3:19.Could the horses have been made of matter and not spirit?:confused:


John 1:3


there was nothing made that wasn't made of it.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I ask this because 2 Kings 2:11 and 2 Kings 6:17.And Ecclesiastes 3:20.And Ecclesiastes 3:21.And Ecclesiastes 12:7.And Ecclesiastes 3:19.Could the horses have been made of matter and not spirit?:confused:

All earthly creation is made of matter in one form or another. According to the Bible, the "spirit" in all living things is the life force that is sustained by breathing. All living things have the same "spirit" but it is not in itself an entity...it is more like the electricity that brings an inanimate appliance to life. This spirit comes from God and all living creatures have the ability to pass on this life force at birth....the moment any creature breathes, they are "souls"....living creatures. The formula is simple.....a body + spirit (breath) = a soul.

Solomon's lament in Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 demonstrates his failure to grasp man's superiority over the animals if we all die the same death.
"for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust."

The superiority of man however was that he alone was created in God's image and granted the opportunity to live forever without death ever taking a single human life. God put "the tree of life" in the garden too. It wasn't for the animals, it was just for the humans. The only proviso was that they had to obey one reasonable command.....not to take the fruit from the tree that God designated as his own property. The only way to die was to disobey that command and we know that the first humans did, thereby meriting the death sentence and God thus preventing them from ever accessing the tree of life again in their now imperfect (sinful) state.

The only way for humans to live again was by resurrection....a return to this life...the one God designed for us to live in mortal flesh, but having the means to prolong life indefinitely without aging, sickness or death. We lost a lot the day our first parents disobeyed their Sovereign Creator. (Roman 5:12) I firmly believe that God will finish what he started in Eden. (Isaiah 55:11) There was never even a mention of going to heaven until Jesus came and revealed the purpose of his Kingdom. To take a chosen "few" to rule with him in heaven. He taught his disciples to pray for it to "come" so that God's will could be "done on earth as it is in heaven". There is a new earth, (not a new planet) a new way of living, that we are awaiting and we have the assurance from God that it will be amazing. (2 Peter 3:13)
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
All earthly creation is made of matter in one form or another. According to the Bible, the "spirit" in all living things is the life force that is sustained by breathing. All living things have the same "spirit" but it is not in itself an entity...it is more like the electricity that brings an inanimate appliance to life. This spirit comes from God and all living creatures have the ability to pass on this life force at birth....the moment any creature breathes, they are "souls"....living creatures. The formula is simple.....a body + spirit (breath) = a soul.

Solomon's lament in Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 demonstrates his failure to grasp man's superiority over the animals if we all die the same death.
"for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust."

The superiority of man however was that he alone was created in God's image and granted the opportunity to live forever without death ever taking a single human life. God put "the tree of life" in the garden too. It wasn't for the animals, it was just for the humans. The only proviso was that they had to obey one reasonable command.....not to take the fruit from the tree that God designated as his own property. The only way to die was to disobey that command and we know that the first humans did, thereby meriting the death sentence and God thus preventing them from ever accessing the tree of life again in their now imperfect (sinful) state.

The only way for humans to live again was by resurrection....a return to this life...the one God designed for us to live in mortal flesh, but having the means to prolong life indefinitely without aging, sickness or death. We lost a lot the day our first parents disobeyed their Sovereign Creator. (Roman 5:12) I firmly believe that God will finish what he started in Eden. (Isaiah 55:11) There was never even a mention of going to heaven until Jesus came and revealed the purpose of his Kingdom. To take a chosen "few" to rule with him in heaven. He taught his disciples to pray for it to "come" so that God's will could be "done on earth as it is in heaven". There is a new earth, (not a new planet) a new way of living, that we are awaiting and we have the assurance from God that it will be amazing. (2 Peter 3:13)

Can you please quote and explain the passages I listed back to back please?:).In my first post?
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
I ask this because 2 Kings 2:11 and 2 Kings 6:17.And Ecclesiastes 3:20.And Ecclesiastes 3:21.And Ecclesiastes 12:7.And Ecclesiastes 3:19.Could the horses have been made of matter and not spirit?:confused:
Pretty sure that the bible say that on the new Earth, the lion will eat grass with the lamb and the snake play with the baby or something like that. Maybe its new animals or it might be the old ones, because they as well have a spirit.

If one take that passage literally :)
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
That is our spirit...it leaves our body at death. Note Psalms 146:3-4.

Hope you're doing well!

I don't see it that way. Consciousness is the closest if I picked a word for it. But all in all, its energy.

Here's a good video I posted awhile back

04:32

"You're locked inside a bony skull, trying to figure what's out there in the world. There's no lights inside the skull. There's no sound either. All you've got to go on is streams of electrical impulses which are only indirectly related to things in the world, whatever they may be. So perception -- figuring out what's there --has to be a process of informed guesswork in which the brain combines these sensory signals with its prior expectations or beliefs about the way the world is to form its best guess of what caused those signals."

All of what we think religiously, the soul, spirit, so have you are just agreed terms in understanding the external information our brains pick up and internalized to make sense of them. When we have no perception, we're basically comatose. When there is no breathe (air, etc), there is no life. We die.

It's more our bodies and brains make up the definition and movement of the spirit rather than the other way around. When the body dies 'then' the spirit goes. Rather than the spirit goes and then the body.

--

I'm doing better. This virus is haunting everyone here.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
I don't see it that way. Consciousness is the closest if I picked a word for it. But all in all, its energy.

Here's a good video I posted awhile back

04:32

"You're locked inside a bony skull, trying to figure what's out there in the world. There's no lights inside the skull. There's no sound either. All you've got to go on is streams of electrical impulses which are only indirectly related to things in the world, whatever they may be. So perception -- figuring out what's there --has to be a process of informed guesswork in which the brain combines these sensory signals with its prior expectations or beliefs about the way the world is to form its best guess of what caused those signals."

All of what we think religiously, the soul, spirit, so have you are just agreed terms in understanding the external information our brains pick up and internalized to make sense of them. When we have no perception, we're basically comatose. When there is no breathe (air, etc), there is no life. We die.

It's more our bodies and brains make up the definition and movement of the spirit rather than the other way around. When the body dies 'then' the spirit goes. Rather than the spirit goes and then the body.

--

I'm doing better. This virus is haunting everyone here.
consider that the life in a body is like the flame on a candle . when the fame is snuffed out ....where does it go ? ? it does not go any where .it just go's out . its the same with the life in the body . it does not go any where . its just gone .
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
consider that the life in a body is like the flame on a candle . when the fame is snuffed out ....where does it go ? ? it does not go any where .it just go's out . its the same with the life in the body . it does not go any where . its just gone .

Basically. Without the spirit and soul, that's pretty much how it works.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
with out spirit a soul is a dead soul

It's more without spirit/life, the body is dead like the bird. The soul is the personality of a person (i.e. ol' soul) and therefore doesn't exist either when the brain dies. The spirit dies when the body dies. The soul "dies" when the brain no longer functions.

Maybe consciousness is a better word for soul. I don't know of another metaphysical term for spirit.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
It's more without spirit/life, the body is dead like the bird. The soul is the personality of a person (i.e. ol' soul) and therefore doesn't exist either when the brain dies. The spirit dies when the body dies. The soul "dies" when the brain no longer functions.

Maybe consciousness is a better word for soul. I don't know of another metaphysical term for spirit.
The original-language terms (Heb., neʹphesh [נֶפֶשׁ]; Gr., psy·kheʹ [ψυχή]) as used in the Scriptures show “soul” to be a person, an animal, or the life that a person or an animal enjoys.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The original-language terms (Heb., neʹphesh [נֶפֶשׁ]; Gr., psy·kheʹ [ψυχή]) as used in the Scriptures show “soul” to be a person, an animal, or the life that a person or an animal enjoys.
Wait -- isn't the original language Sanskrit, the original term jiva [ जीव ], and the soul merely a snippet of a larger sea of consciousness?
 
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