• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

What does Passover represent?

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
I've always treated Revelation as one long acid trip. I don't think you get anywhere taking it literally.

I've had the virus by the way, extremely mildly, and recovered - except that my sense of taste and smell has not yet fully returned. Perhaps you can tell me whether that has anything to do with this beast of yours.

Well, only approximately 1.9% of those who died of co-19, were healthy, without underlying causes. Even at that, the current US number of deaths only approximately matches the yearly number of deaths from falling in the bathtub. Maybe you should knock on wood. As far as an "acid trip", apparently hemp smokers aren't doing as well as your average Joe. As for the coming valley of judgment, try Joel 2 & 3, if you don't like Revelation.
 
Last edited:

exchemist

Veteran Member
Well, only approximately 1.9% of healthy, apparently infected people die of co-19. Even at that, the current US number of deaths only approximately matches the yearly number of deaths from falling in the bathtub. Maybe you should knock on wood. As far as an "acid trip", apparently hemp smokers aren't doing as well as your average Joe. As for the coming valley of judgment, try Joel 2 & 3, if you don't like Revelation.
Oh don't get me wrong, I like Revelation well enough. I think the author had a series of dreamlike visions that are very poetic and contain some striking imagery. But there is clearly a lot of symbolism. Everyone agrees it needs interpretation and can't be taken literally. For instance you yourself ask what the "beast" signifies, as clearly it can't be a literal wild animal. Most scholars think it is a reference to Nero's Roman empire, I gather.

The eventual mortality of Covid-19 is likely to be under 1%, but those that die all do so over a very compressed time interval and all of them have the same lung problem, requiring the same medical kit, which nobody has enough of. Hence the unfolding healthcare disaster.

The current death toll - which you mention - will be, I would guess, only of the order of 20% of the final tally, if you look at how these curves seem to evolve.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Quite. The image of the sacrificial (Passover) lamb is chosen to show that it is Christ's sacrifice that takes away the sins of the world, not some separate, vindictive act of damnation, as @2ndpillar suggests.

It really makes me wonder about his foundational teachings. If, according to John 3, God didn't want to condemn the world, why would someone want project that people need to be condemned?
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
Originally it was the angel of death passing over the houses marked with the blood of lamb without defects placed over the door. As the angels of death are coming again (Mt 13:39-40) (Rev 8:7), how will they determine what houses to bypass (Dt 6:8-9)? Those with the mark of the beast, apparently will have something to worry about.(Rev 19:20-21) The mark of God seems pretty evident (Dt 6:8). What is the mark of the beast, and who is the beast, and who are his two horns, and what is their relevance?
If you want to be "passed over".... repent of sin, be baptized for remission of sins (transgression of GOD'S law) and receive the gift of God's spirit (a spirit of power, love and a sound mind) within you (it is first with you, then in you) at the laying on of hand's of God's ministers. They will be keeping and teaching the commandments and holy days GIVEN BY GOD -and preaching the gospel OF THE KINGDOM before the end.

The sign between God and his people -as frontlets between the eyes (forehead) and as a sign on the hand -are the commandments and holy days given by God -as well as statutes and judgments under the law which now apply. The mark of the beast is GENERALLY submission to (forehead) -and practice of (hand) -anything contrary -though some things also specifically.

All of this is essentially the way to have the blood of the lamb's sacrifice (Christ) 'applied'.

Not all who keep God's commandments will escape what is to come -some will go into the tribulation and be saved out of it ( either to be purified and/or to serve God in it) along with a great multitude of all nations, but it is certainly a good idea to do the following -as some will literally be led to a place of safety by God during the worst time of trouble the world has ever known -or will ever know.....

Luke 21:35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Rev 12:6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

(the different churches in Revelation were originally in different places, but also represent eras of God's church over time -the second to last described here... the last group being separated from them by one being protected and one going onto the tribulation)
Rev3:7And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; 8I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Oh don't get me wrong, I like Revelation well enough. I think the author had a series of dreamlike visions that are very poetic and contain some striking imagery. But there is clearly a lot of symbolism. Everyone agrees it needs interpretation and can't be taken literally. For instance you yourself ask what the "beast" signifies, as clearly it can't be a literal wild animal. Most scholars think it is a reference to Nero's Roman empire, I gather.

The eventual mortality of Covid-19 is likely to be under 1%, but those that die all do so over a very compressed time interval and all of them have the same lung problem, requiring the same medical kit, which nobody has enough of. Hence the unfolding healthcare disaster.

The current death toll - which you mention - will be, I would guess, only of the order of 20% of the final tally, if you look at how these curves seem to evolve.

All virus projections are speculative since no accurate tests were available. The California flue of Dec 2019 is now thought to have been the covid-19, which has given the population an amount of antibodies, therefore a low death count. As for the 1.9%, that figure was inappropriately used. According to the study, of the deaths recorded as being from Covid-19, only 1.9% were supposedly by healthy individuals. The problem with this is that the cause of death were put on to Covid-19, whether the patient died of heart failure, or some other failure. A new study also is pointing to many deaths not by the Virus, but by an over active immune system which destroys the patient organs. It is hard to give immune suppression drugs to someone who is quite sick, but apparently that procedure works in a select grouping of patients. As for the Catholic's pointing at Nero, the guy never deceived anyone, much less "those who dwell on the earth". As for Nero's Roman empire, it was not his empire, it was an empire set in place when Julius Caesar, the 5th head of the beast of Rev 17, turned the Roman Republic into a dictatorship. Nero was simply one of the 10 horns of the 6th head of the beast, Augustus Caesar, the adopted son of Julius Caesar.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
All virus projections are speculative since no accurate tests were available. The California flue of Dec 2019 is now thought to have been the covid-19, which has given the population an amount of antibodies, therefore a low death count. As for the 1.9%, that figure was inappropriately used. According to the study, of the deaths recorded as being from Covid-19, only 1.9% were supposedly by healthy individuals. The problem with this is that the cause of death were put on to Covid-19, whether the patient died of heart failure, or some other failure. A new study also is pointing to many deaths not by the Virus, but by an over active immune system which destroys the patient organs. It is hard to give immune suppression drugs to someone who is quite sick, but apparently that procedure works in a select grouping of patients. As for the Catholic's pointing at Nero, the guy never deceived anyone, much less "those who dwell on the earth". As for Nero's Roman empire, it was not his empire, it was an empire set in place when Julius Caesar, the 5th head of the beast of Rev 17, turned the Roman Republic into a dictatorship. Nero was simply one of the 10 horns of the 6th head of the beast, Augustus Caesar, the adopted son of Julius Caesar.
It looks as though you have been fed a cock-and-bull story over the California 'flu'. According to this report:
The flu season is hitting young people particularly hard. And it's not over
it was Influenza B and predominantly affected younger people, whereas the coronavirus that causes covid-19 notoriously affects mainly the elderly. Influenza B is not a coronavirus: Influenza B virus - Wikipedia

As for the mode of death, the point with Covid-19 is that it can stimulate an immune overreaction in the lungs, (due to something called a "cytokine storm"). It is this overreaction that kills people, and it is directly due to the virus. So it is wrong to think such deaths are caused by something other than the virus.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Originally it was the angel of death passing over the houses marked with the blood of lamb without defects placed over the door. As the angels of death are coming again (Mt 13:39-40) (Rev 8:7), how will they determine what houses to bypass (Dt 6:8-9)? Those with the mark of the beast, apparently will have something to worry about.(Rev 19:20-21) The mark of God seems pretty evident (Dt 6:8). What is the mark of the beast, and who is the beast, and who are his two horns, and what is their relevance?

The two horns are The World and Fear. When your "church" decides to cower and betray the Gospel, when your church sells out to the government, you're no longer serving those you claim to be for.

The first Passover was about God's payback for killing the firstborn of Egypt, for continuing to oppress the people of Egypt (despite what we read, this was probably not something that ended in one night around the time of Moses but went on and on, until population was under control).

This Passover however is due to a different thing, a sense that an outside party is trying to control the population (in another way, not by killing them but by keeping them in fear, or by keeping them attached to the world). It is not about physical survival. It's about spiritual survival.

Interestingly this is called Coronavirus. Corona Virus. Corona = Crown. Crown chakra is...
It's the top chakra. The part focused on attachment to things of this world. The first chakra is based on our fears. The first and last of these are most important, but you probably ought to watch the video.
 
Last edited:

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
The two horns are The World and Fear. When your "church" decides to cower and betray the Gospel, when your church sells out to the government, you're no longer serving those you claim to be for.

The first Passover was about God's payback for killing the firstborn of Egypt, for continuing to oppress the people of Egypt (despite what we read, this was probably not something that ended in one night around the time of Moses but went on and on, until population was under control).

This Passover however is due to a different thing, a sense that an outside party is trying to control the population (in another way, not by killing them but by keeping them in fear, or by keeping them attached to the world). It is not about physical survival. It's about spiritual survival.

Interestingly this is called Coronavirus. Corona Virus. Corona = Crown. Crown chakra is...
It's the top chakra. The part focused on attachment to things of this world. The first chakra is based on our fears. The first and last of these are most important, but you probably ought to watch the video.

As for the co flue, I have heard that it affects brain function. As for the "two horns like a lamb", keeping with the flow of Daniel and Revelation, those would be leaders, who would be lamb like, or Christ like, and not the emotion "fear". It was the "World" (those who dwell on the earth) that the beast with two horns like a lamb was to deceive (Rev 13:14) The beast with two horns like a lamb was the 7th head of the beast (Rev 17:10). He is dead ("is not") and we are in the realm of the 8th horn of the beast (Rev 17:11-12).

As for Egypt's, well it was the angels who dealt Egypt its' loss of the first born for not letting the Israelites go. Egypt gave the Israelites gold and silver, and the same will happen again with respect to the countries surrounding Israel (Zechariah 14:14), of course after a nuclear episode (Zechariah 14:12).
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
It looks as though you have been fed a cock-and-bull story over the California 'flu'. According to this report:
The flu season is hitting young people particularly hard. And it's not over
it was Influenza B and predominantly affected younger people, whereas the coronavirus that causes covid-19 notoriously affects mainly the elderly. Influenza B is not a coronavirus: Influenza B virus - Wikipedia

As for the mode of death, the point with Covid-19 is that it can stimulate an immune overreaction in the lungs, (due to something called a "cytokine storm"). It is this overreaction that kills people, and it is directly due to the virus. So it is wrong to think such deaths are caused by something other than the virus.

Well I guess that explains why up to 50% of the people being tested, test positive for co 19 antibodies and California has relatively escaped higher levels of devastation with respect to the co flu. The immune response is affecting all the organs, not just the lungs, which is targeted by the co flu. What that doesn't address is why places such as Norway have such a greater problem than the heavily Chinese populated California.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Well I guess that explains why up to 50% of the people being tested, test positive for co 19 antibodies and California has relatively escaped higher levels of devastation with respect to the co flu. The immune response is affecting all the organs, not just the lungs, which is targeted by the co flu. What that doesn't address is why places such as Norway have such a greater problem than the heavily Chinese populated California.
If California has done relatively well, I expect it will be due to the speed and effectiveness of protective measures and perhaps, though I don't know this, a more spread-out way of life than in the cities of the East Coast, leading to intrinsically fewer opportunities for transmission.

Regarding Norway, as of yesterday it seems they had 113 deaths, in a population of 5m people. They seem to be controlling it well through a test and trace programme. Most of the infections in Norway were imported by Norwegians returning after skiing holidays in Austria and Italy. More here: 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Norway - Wikipedia

So I'm really not sure why you think they are having more trouble than California.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
If California has done relatively well, I expect it will be due to the speed and effectiveness of protective measures and perhaps, though I don't know this, a more spread-out way of life than in the cities of the East Coast, leading to intrinsically fewer opportunities for transmission.

Regarding Norway, as of yesterday it seems they had 113 deaths, in a population of 5m people. They seem to be controlling it well through a test and trace programme. Most of the infections in Norway were imported by Norwegians returning after skiing holidays in Austria and Italy. More here: 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Norway - Wikipedia

So I'm really not sure why you think they are having more trouble than California.

P.S. Having checked, I see now that California reports 540 deaths, in a population of 40m. So I suppose they are faring marginally better than Norway per head, but there seems not to be much in it - and I don't know where the two states are on their respective epidemic curves, which makes it hard to draw a very useful comparison.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
If California has done relatively well, I expect it will be due to the speed and effectiveness of protective measures and perhaps, though I don't know this, a more spread-out way of life than in the cities of the East Coast, leading to intrinsically fewer opportunities for transmission.

Regarding Norway, as of yesterday it seems they had 113 deaths, in a population of 5m people. They seem to be controlling it well through a test and trace programme. Most of the infections in Norway were imported by Norwegians returning after skiing holidays in Austria and Italy. More here: 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Norway - Wikipedia

So I'm really not sure why you think they are having more trouble than California.

The rate of 113 deaths for Norway's 5 million is higher than around 600 deaths for California with a population of 40 million, which would be a 50% greater death rate. Random antivirus test will begin this weekend in LA county, so the true number of infected people, and subsequent rates of infection and death can be better attributed rather than models and speculations which have proven to be false. Another cold weather country, Sweden, has had around 890 deaths, has only a population of 10 million. The death rate for Sweden would be around 600% greater death rate based on population than California. The death rate for another sunny country, Australia, is around 56 death per 25 million, which would be 2500% greater death rate for Sweden versus sunny Australia. As solar radiation kills germs and viruses, one might assume that besides existing antibodies, in the California population, which should be tested soon, that sunlight is a good disinfectant, and one shouldn't be locked up in a dark room.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
The rate of 113 deaths for Norway's 5 million is higher than around 600 deaths for California with a population of 40 million, which would be a 50% greater death rate. Random antivirus test will begin this weekend in LA county, so the true number of infected people, and subsequent rates of infection and death can be better attributed rather than models and speculations which have proven to be false. Another cold weather country, Sweden, has had around 890 deaths, has only a population of 10 million. The death rate for Sweden would be around 600% greater death rate based on population than California. The death rate for another sunny country, Australia, is around 56 death per 25 million, which would be 2500% greater death rate for Sweden versus sunny Australia. As solar radiation kills germs and viruses, one might assume that besides existing antibodies, in the California population, which should be tested soon, that sunlight is a good disinfectant, and one shouldn't be locked up in a dark room.
That's an interesting idea, certainly, though from what I have read recently it seems most of the epidemiologists are not expecting the advent of N Hemisphere summer to make a huge difference. But we are all still learning about this virus, so it remains a possibility.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Originally it was the angel of death passing over the houses marked with the blood of lamb without defects placed over the door. As the angels of death are coming again (Mt 13:39-40) (Rev 8:7), how will they determine what houses to bypass (Dt 6:8-9)? Those with the mark of the beast, apparently will have something to worry about.(Rev 19:20-21) The mark of God seems pretty evident (Dt 6:8). What is the mark of the beast, and who is the beast, and who are his two horns, and what is their relevance?
You are trying to apply a Jewish festival to Christian apocalyptics. It's like shoving a square peg into a round hole.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
You are trying to apply a Jewish festival to Christian apocalyptics. It's like shoving a square peg into a round hole.

Yeshua's referral to the "tribulation" (apocalypse) when the "sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky" is a reference to Isaiah 13;10, Ezek 32:7, & Joel 2:10. As for the "Christian" followers of Paul, of course, they are following the false prophets pointed out in Mathew 7:15, and for the most part ignore all Sabbaths, and retain the "mark of the beast with two horns like a lamb", that being the 7th head of the beast (Rev 17)(Daniel 7:24), Constantine, and his two Christ like leaders, Peter and Paul. Apart from Passover, the sacrifice of the unblemished lamb, there is no substitutional Easter, which is nothing but the Christian realigned pagan feast of Astarte (queen of heaven), initiated at the Council of Nicaea, which was convened by the beast with two horns like a lamb, Constantine. No, your "Christianity" is in alignment with the Roman pagan religion, established by a Roman emperor to imitate his own pagan religion, in which he reigned as Pontifex Maximus, the same title as that of the Christian pope. Those with the mark of God on their hand, forehead and door opening (Dt 6:8-9), apparently according to Passover, got passed over by the angel of death. Those marked with the mark of the beast, apparently drink from the cup of the wrath of God (Jeremiah 31:11) (Rev 19:20-21) (Joel 3:2)
 
Top