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For Christians....Are we living at the end of the last days?

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
With all that has happened in the last year or so, things have intensified so much in the last few months, that the whole world has been plunged into a crisis that apparently no one saw coming....or at least not the average person in the street.

Just with the disasters that have occurred during the last year...fires, floods, earthquakes, destructive weather events and other "natural" disasters in unprecedented numbers globally, it looks as if we were set up for this virus to finish us off....both financially, socially and physically. Covid 19 is targeting the elderly and those with chronic health conditions. Comparatively few young people and small children have been victims. Can someone tell us why?

Is there a time in history when we were more vulnerable? Even with all our technology and advanced medical science in this 21st century....we still cannot prevent another "plague" from decimating the world's population.

So in view of the "sign" that Jesus gave concerning "the time of the end" or the time when Jesus was to return to bring the world to an accounting, (Matthew 24:3-14; 37-39) how many "Christians" out there can really deny that this world system is in its death throes?....that we are seeing intensified events of which Jesus spoke, that are making many people very nervous about the immediate future?

Here is a list of the events that Jesus said would mark the "last days".....


Are there Christians who think "the end" is still a long way off? If so, what makes you think so?
Jesus believed the end would come soon. Paul believed in an imminent Parousia. We see how well those worked out. I believe we are in a time of flux that will bring about paradigmatic changes. But the “end?” Maybe the end of this paradigm.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Jesus believed the end would come soon. Paul believed in an imminent Parousia. We see how well those worked out. I believe we are in a time of flux that will bring about paradigmatic changes. But the “end?” Maybe the end of this paradigm.

It is a very brilliant idea to keep the coming of the Kingdom "immanent" because if the first Christians believed that it was 2,000 years away, how would they have kept going through all of their trials? Every Christian who reads the Bible is struck by the urgency of the message but it gets no less urgent with the passage of time. Each day is a day closer....

Jesus said to "keep on the watch" and if we are doing that, then we will not be overtaken by complacency when the final event takes place.
"Like the days of Noah", Jesus said....so how is today like the days of Noah?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
It is a very brilliant idea to keep the coming of the Kingdom "immanent" because if the first Christians believed that it was 2,000 years away, how would they have kept going through all of their trials? Every Christian who reads the Bible is struck by the urgency of the message but it gets no less urgent with the passage of time. Each day is a day closer....

Jesus said to "keep on the watch" and if we are doing that, then we will not be overtaken by complacency when the final event takes place.
"Like the days of Noah", Jesus said....so how is today like the days of Noah?
Why? Why is it "brilliant?" That promotes a "live for tomorrow" attitude and reveals the heinous theology that this world is "bad" or "undesirable." Sorry -- I can't live my spiritual paradigm in that way. Jesus spent more time talking about showing the kin-dom in this world than he did talking about "what's next." "Keep on watch" means that we're looking for signs of the kin-dom right here, right now, rather than looking out the window, wishing for "something better" down the road. When this world isn't "good enough," then its people and its creatures become throw-away. And all that matters is "my" salvation.

Nope. Don't buy it. This world is God's body, God's blood rushes through the veins of the rivers, God's breath is in the wind, God's Spirit is in every living creature, and every face is the face of Christ. And most importantly, we're in this together; salvation is for all children of God. It matters, because each attitude dictates how we treat each other and the earth.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Why is it "brilliant?" That promotes a "live for tomorrow" attitude and reveals the heinous theology that this world is "bad" or "undesirable." Sorry -- I can't live my spiritual paradigm in that way.
Your spiritual paradigm is your choice.....but Jesus taught about a "kingdom" that was to "come", not something that is here and now....unless you can see God's will being "done on earth as it is in heaven"? :shrug: The majority of humans couldn't give a toss about doing God's will....they are too busy carrying out their own.

Jesus spent more time talking about showing the kin-dom in this world than he did talking about "what's next." "Keep on watch" means that we're looking for signs of the kin-dom right here, right now, rather than looking out the window, wishing for "something better" down the road.

Why do you alter the word? Jesus never taught about a "kin-dom"...he taught us about a "kingdom" which is a "king" and his "dom"ain.
Unless you understand what God's "kingdom" is, and what its rule will mean for this earth, then Jesus came and died for nothing.
The "king" has already established his "kingdom" among his faithful followers, but its rule has not yet "come" to take over earth's affairs.
That is still future....but not far away by the looks of things.

Daniel prophesied that in the days of the present world powers, God would bring in the rule of his kingdom, not by converting the world but by force....."crushing" the present world powers out of existence and then replacing them with the Kingdom that Jesus taught us to pray for. (Daniel 2:44) This has not yet taken place and when Daniel wrote that prophesy, it was 500 years before Jesus was even born. The future is way more important than you seem to imagine. The 'coming' of God's Kingdom was not something that passively happens inside a person, but is a powerful display of God's power, leaving no human in any doubt about his existence and about who owns this planet that they are bringing to ruin. (Revelation 11:18) There is an accounting and its coming soon.

When this world isn't "good enough," then its people and its creatures become throw-away. And all that matters is "my" salvation.

To a Christian, the salvation of as many as possible is the sole driver behind the work that Jesus assigned to his disciples...to "preach the good news of the Kingdom in all the inhabited earth as a witness to all the nations" before the "end " comes. (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19-20) Christ's true disciples have been engaged in this work for the entire duration of these last days.

Its "just like the days of Noah"....no one is taking any notice....until they see the event unfolding......like those who mocked Noah and ignored him until the water started swirling around their knees and it kept rising until there was nowhere to go. Then they believed....but too late. It wasn't Noah who closed the door of the ark....and it won't be us who says when the door of opportunity will be closed again. Everyone outside of God's family of faithful worshippers, will perish. There was only one ark...not many.

The obedient ones have already acted on the message.....the disobedient will wait until its too late again. Human nature doesn't change. God's Kingdom will change the way humans live on this planet forever.

Nope. Don't buy it. This world is God's body, God's blood rushes through the veins of the rivers, God's breath is in the wind, God's Spirit is in every living creature, and every face is the face of Christ. And most importantly, we're in this together; salvation is for all children of God. It matters, because each attitude dictates how we treat each other and the earth.

The "children of God" are in a small minority according to Jesus. There are "few" who are on the narrow road to life.....the majority are on the super highway to death. (Matthew 7:13-14)

This IS God's earth and that is the very reason why he must act to stop humanity from destroying this planet and each other.
Look at where we are now....in a world where "love for ones neighbor" has all but disappeared, selfish humans will climb over bodies to preserve their own useless and selfish lives. Jesus knows those who belong to him.....these are the "sheep".

As Jesus said of the final tribulation...."for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short."

I believe that we are on the brink of that tribulation.....something unexpected will trigger it.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Jesus taught about a "kingdom" that was to "come", not something that is here and now
Hmmm... God’s kin-dom is like yeast that a woman mixes in with the dough. It’s like a woman who lost a coin. It’s like a shepherd searching for a lost sheep. It’s like a vineyard. It’s like a pearl in a field. It’s like a rich man who had three servants. It’s like a prodigal son. It’s like a wedding feast... all sounds pretty here-and-now to me.

Why do you alter the word?
Because the word begs altering. Very few people have any idea anymore just what a kingdom is, or how it operates, and how subjects live. The metaphor no longer serves us. Kingdoms maintain status quo through subjugation. But we are created to be co-creators with God.

Jesus never taught about a "kin-dom"...he taught us about a "kingdom" which is a "king" and his "dom"ain.
He taught that we are no longer subjects, but siblings. Sounds like “kin” to me...

The "king" has already established his "kingdom" among his faithful followers, but its rule has not yet "come" to take over earth's affairs
I believe (as the Bible says) that it has already come near.
Daniel prophesied
Pfft. Daniel. As if.
assigned to his disciples...to "preach the good news of the Kingdom in all the inhabited earth as a witness to all the nations" before the "end " comes. (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19-20) Christ's true disciples have been engaged in this work for the entire duration of these last days
I don’t see most Christians of evangelical ilk working to fulfill Jesus’ directive in Matthew. You’re not making an “us” out of “them.” You’re only creating deeper division with this silly talk of who’s in and who’s not. See your second entry below for a great example of this.
the disobedient will wait until its too late again
Wait... what? The Bible tells us that the father waits until the son returns. The shepherd searches until the lost sheep is found. That’s what happens in the kin-dom. There is no “too late.”
The "children of God" are in a small minority according to Jesus. There are "few" who are on the narrow road to life.....the majority are on the super highway to death
Jesus called us all siblings. Paul said that we are all heirs.
Look at where we are now... selfish humans will climb over bodies to preserve their own useless and selfish lives.
Maybe in your church that happens. In my faith we all celebrate the unconditional love of God for every person. We seek and serve Christ in everyone we meet. We try to live out mercy, hospitality, compassion, welcome, and equity.
 
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Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Hmmm... God’s kin-dom is like yeast that a woman mixes in with the dough. It’s like a woman who lost a coin. It’s like a shepherd searching for a lost sheep. It’s like a vineyard. It’s like a pearl in a field. It’s like a rich man who had three servants. It’s like a prodigal son. It’s like a wedding feast... all sounds pretty here-and-now to me.

The Kingdom is "like " a lot of things.....but the Kingdom itself is none of them.
The apostle Paul wrote...
"He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory."

Because the word begs altering.

Who says? You don't alter Jesus words because YOU think they need altering.

Very few people have any idea anymore just what a kingdom is, or how it operates, and how subjects live. The metaphor no longer serves us.

So that gives you the right to teach something that Jesus never said?

Kingdoms maintain status quo through subjugation. But we are created to be co-creators with God.

Don't look now, but in the beginning humans were given a choice.....obey God and live...or disobey him and die. What does that sound like? Its a dictatorship, pure and simple.....except that the dictator in this case is benevolent, not tyrannical. Still, it was a "shape up or ship out" scenario. When Christ comes again, it will be the same....the "sheep" get to keep their lives...the "goats" lose theirs. Its the same story...obey and live...disobey and die.

What are we co-creating exactly?

He taught that we are no longer subjects, but siblings. Sounds like “kin” to me...

Christ's "brothers" are his "joint heirs"....these are selected by God to form a government to rule over the earth. (Revelation 20:6) That is what God's Kingdom is for.....to bring all things back to God's original purpose as stated in Eden. It will accomplish a reconciliation with God and bring us back to what Adam lost in the beginning....everlasting life in paradise on earth. What God starts, he finishes. (Isaiah 55:11)

I believe (as the Bible says) that it has already come near.

It is nearer than many think....

Pfft. Daniel. As if.

Really? You are going to rubbish Daniel because he disagrees with you? God seemed to think Daniel was a very desirable man in his eyes. Make sure that God agrees with your evaluation of this man.

Daniel 12:4;9-10....
"But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase......He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand.” (ESV)

We are in "the time of the end" right now.....all has been revealed to God's servants, whom he has 'refined and purified' in this period, but the wicked have no understanding and will carry on as they always have....oblivious to the sign of the times.

I don’t see most Christians of evangelical ilk working to fulfill Jesus’ directive in Matthew.

Neither do I....and that's the point...only those who have God's spirit backing this work are out there doing what others only talk about.
It was part of the sign that the good news of the Kingdom was to be preached in all the world before the 'end' was to come. God has given the world a thorough witness but they have rejected the message and the messengers. Its their choice, but Jesus said it would be "just like the days of Noah"...and here we are.

You’re not making an “us” out of “them.” You’re only creating deeper division with this silly talk of who’s in and who’s not. See your second entry below for a great example of this.

It is Jesus who makes the division not us. He is the one separating the "sheep" from the "goats" ....you act as if he never said he was going to send people to "gehenna".

How many survived the flood? Why did they not survive the flood? Why did God bring it in the first place? Why did Jesus use it as an example of how things will be at his return? What are you not getting?

Wait... what? The Bible tells us that the father waits until the son returns. The shepherd searches until the lost sheep is found. That’s what happens in the kin-dom. There is no “too late.”

How selective you are in your use of scripture....you ignore all the parts that disagree with your rosy picture. There was a "too late" in Noah's day...there was a "too late" for Sodom and Gomorrah...there was a "too late" for Jerusalem.....where do all those things feature in your scenario? There is no "kin-dom".....you have made that up...and if you teach others what is not taught by Christ, you will be held doubly accountable.

There is a "too late" for the "goats"....many of whom think that they are "sheep". Jesus sets them straight before he dispatches them. (Matthew 7:21-23)

Jesus called us all siblings. Paul said that we are all heirs.

Who is "us" and "we"? Jesus called his "chosen ones" his "brothers" and these alone will inherit the Kingdom by becoming part of it.
But the heavenly kingdom has earthly subjects. (Revelation 21:2-4) The "New Jerusalem" is the kingdom that will bring mankind back to God and eliminate all the things that cause us grief.....all the things that sin brought into the world.

Maybe in your church that happens.
We have a unity that exists in every nation. We step over no one.

In my faith we all celebrate the unconditional love of God for every person. We seek and serve Christ in everyone we meet. We try to live out mercy, hospitality, compassion, welcome, and equity.

That is pure "pie in the sky" :rolleyes:....you are not teaching the Bible's reality. God does not have unconditional love for every person...if he did, then God would not have wiped out all of humanity in the flood....the people of Sodom and Gomorrah would never have been obliterated from the face of the earth, and Jerusalem's inhabitants would not have suffered a siege by the Romans that saw them so desperate that they resorted to eating their own children.

The message that God has had declared in all the world during these last days is a "witness"....it is the only "witness" that people of all the nations will get before God brings an "end" to the rot and establishes his Kingdom to bring in Christ's 1,000 year reign of peace. (Matthew 24:14)

Matthew 6:9-10....
"Pray then like this:
“Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name.
10 Your kingdom come, your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven."


The Kingdom will bring God's will to the earth, where it will never be devalued or ignored again.

The warning is there in Matthew 25:31-34; 41...
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. . . .41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

You have to ignore a lot of scripture to cling to your beliefs....but that is your choice.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
To the OP, not likely, and we've been through such predictions many times before.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The Kingdom is "like " a lot of things.....but the Kingdom itself is none of them.
Of course not, but the examples show that Jesus was far more concerned about the kin-dom here and now than he was about some "galaxy far, far away."

Who says? You don't alter Jesus words because YOU think they need altering.
Of course we do! The Faith is a living, organic thing -- not a museum piece. Jesus' words were altered, edited, and flat made up before I ever got here. What matters isn't the exact wording -- it's the gist of the story that matters. That's how oral storytelling works (which is what the gospels originally were).

So that gives you the right to teach something that Jesus never said?
What gives you the authority to ask what gives me the right?

Don't look now, but in the beginning humans were given a choice.....obey God and live...or disobey him and die. What does that sound like? Its a dictatorship, pure and simple.....except that the dictator in this case is benevolent, not tyrannical. Still, it was a "shape up or ship out" scenario. When Christ comes again, it will be the same....the "sheep" get to keep their lives...the "goats" lose theirs. Its the same story...obey and live...disobey and die.
What a sad little spiritual world you inhabit. What a dystopian, dismal picture of God.
What are we co-creating exactly?
if you haven't figured that out yet, there's no helping you. We are co-creating 9that is, helping to bring about) God's kin-dom.

Christ's "brothers" are his "joint heirs"....these are selected by God to form a government to rule over the earth. (Revelation 20:6) That is what God's Kingdom is for.....to bring all things back to God's original purpose as stated in Eden. It will accomplish a reconciliation with God and bring us back to what Adam lost in the beginning....everlasting life in paradise on earth. What God starts, he finishes. (Isaiah 55:11)
God has selected all of us. Not to form some Trump-esque government, but in order to restore a family -- a kin-dom.

It is nearer than many think....
That was my point. It is at hand now. It's here.
Really? You are going to rubbish Daniel because he disagrees with you?
No, I'm going to rubbish Daniel because way too many people are ruining the Christian message by ascribing way too much authority to a book that way too many misineterpret. Daniel's got nothing to do with Jesus, with Christianity, or with dispensationism (which is BS in the first place).

Neither do I....and that's the point...only those who have God's spirit backing this work are out there doing what others only talk about.
It was part of the sign that the good news of the Kingdom was to be preached in all the world before the 'end' was to come. God has given the world a thorough witness but they have rejected the message and the messengers.
Have they? Perhaps they've rejected your version of that message. I don't see a lot of people ascribing to Watchtower crap -- but I do see more and more people coming together in the name of love, life, the earth, and equity within the human family.

It is Jesus who makes the division not us. He is the one separating the "sheep" from the "goats"
You really don't understand Matthew. What a shame.

How selective you are in your use of scripture....you ignore all the parts that disagree with your rosy picture. There was a "too late" in Noah's day...there was a "too late" for Sodom and Gomorrah...there was a "too late" for Jerusalem.....where do all those things feature in your scenario?
And yet, in each of those stories, there is salvation. There is a "faithful remnant." That faithful remnant isn't some literal "these will be saved, these will not." It's a theological way of saying that humanity itself will survive the dirt we pile on ourselves. Humanity is that "faithful remnant" -- the real human family -- not the masks we make for ourselves to hide behind.
There is no "kin-dom".....you have made that up...and if you teach others what is not taught by Christ, you will be held doubly accountable.
Nope. I haven't done that at all. You're just so busy standing in judgment of everyone and thinking that it's your job to separate sheep and goats, that you can't see it. You're too busy creating and hiding behind your own mask of judgment and entitlement.

There is a "too late" for the "goats"....many of whom think that they are "sheep". Jesus sets them straight before he dispatches them. (Matthew 7:21-23)
No. There's not -- not in the sense you understand it. The "sheep" are pure human souls. The "goats" are the avatars we set up for ourselves.

Who is "us" and "we"? Jesus called his "chosen ones" his "brothers" and these alone will inherit the Kingdom by becoming part of it.
"We" are the whole human race. We "become part" of God's kin-dom by embracing our true selves and discarding the masks that don't really serve us.

We have a unity that exists in every nation. We step over no one.
Baloney. See above. Your post reeks of dictatorship and people being culled out of the herd. It's YOU who are perpetuating that false picture -- not anyone else.

you are not teaching the Bible's reality.
You're not listening.

God does not have unconditional love for every person...if he did, then God would not have wiped out all of humanity in the flood....the people of Sodom and Gomorrah would never have been obliterated from the face of the earth, and Jerusalem's inhabitants would not have suffered a siege by the Romans that saw them so desperate that they resorted to eating their own children.
God didn't wipe out all humanity. Now who's not teaching the bible's reality? You seem to think that this is some kind of cosmological something. It's not. It's metaphoric. You're not reading deeply enough.

it is the only "witness" that people of all the nations will get before God brings an "end" to the rot and establishes his Kingdom to bring in Christ's 1,000 year reign of peace.
More dispensationist codswallop.

The Kingdom will bring God's will to the earth, where it will never be devalued or ignored again.
God's will is already established on earth. You're trying to claim that God is neither everywhere, omnipotent, nor efficacious. Very sad.

The warning is there in Matthew 25:31-34; 41...
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. . . .41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
Dear God! Please, please take a real class in Matthew before you attempt to preach it. You're getting it all wrong.

You have to ignore a lot of scripture to cling to your beliefs....but that is your choice.
Ditto.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
@sojourner You can believe whatever you wish.....all the best with it.

Time will tell and I am convinced that time is running out for this present system of things and those who don't believe what is staring them in the face.....so we will see.
From Jesus' words concerning his return, and the words of the apostle Paul (1 Thessalonians 5:2-3) I am expecting things to appear to be resolved and an international cry of "peace and security" to ring hollow, followed by the greatest tribulation in the history of mankind. (Matthew 24:21)

Luke 21:34-36....
"34 “Be on your guard, so that your minds are not dulled from carousing, drunkenness, and worries of life, or that day will come on you unexpectedly 35 like a trap. For it will come on all who live on the face of the whole earth. 36 But be alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place and to stand before the Son of Man.” (HCSB)

Make of that what you will. Some will stand...many will fall. You can't say no one told you....
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
@sojourner You can believe whatever you wish.....all the best with it.

Time will tell and I am convinced that time is running out for this present system of things and those who don't believe what is staring them in the face.....so we will see.
From Jesus' words concerning his return, and the words of the apostle Paul (1 Thessalonians 5:2-3) I am expecting things to appear to be resolved and an international cry of "peace and security" to ring hollow, followed by the greatest tribulation in the history of mankind. (Matthew 24:21)

Luke 21:34-36....
"34 “Be on your guard, so that your minds are not dulled from carousing, drunkenness, and worries of life, or that day will come on you unexpectedly 35 like a trap. For it will come on all who live on the face of the whole earth. 36 But be alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place and to stand before the Son of Man.” (HCSB)

Make of that what you will. Some will stand...many will fall. You can't say no one told you....
My hope is in the Lord, and in God's power to save. My faith is in life, love, and the human spirit that springs from God.

Yes, I think that this present system is under tremendous change. But, unlike you, I have faith that God's creative power will bring us all into newness of life. There are those who will help humanity and the world into this new paradigm.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
With all that has happened in the last year or so, things have intensified so much in the last few months, that the whole world has been plunged into a crisis that apparently no one saw coming....or at least not the average person in the street.

Just with the disasters that have occurred during the last year...fires, floods, earthquakes, destructive weather events and other "natural" disasters in unprecedented numbers globally, it looks as if we were set up for this virus to finish us off....both financially, socially and physically. Covid 19 is targeting the elderly and those with chronic health conditions. Comparatively few young people and small children have been victims. Can someone tell us why?

Is there a time in history when we were more vulnerable? Even with all our technology and advanced medical science in this 21st century....we still cannot prevent another "plague" from decimating the world's population.

So in view of the "sign" that Jesus gave concerning "the time of the end" or the time when Jesus was to return to bring the world to an accounting, (Matthew 24:3-14; 37-39) how many "Christians" out there can really deny that this world system is in its death throes?....that we are seeing intensified events of which Jesus spoke, that are making many people very nervous about the immediate future?

Here is a list of the events that Jesus said would mark the "last days".....


Are there Christians who think "the end" is still a long way off? If so, what makes you think so?
saw a science documentary some years ago
all the possible scenarios that could wipe us out

one fellow in the middle of it all took only a moment to say
this planet has enough resources for 9billion people

almost there
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
With all that has happened in the last year or so, things have intensified so much in the last few months, that the whole world has been plunged into a crisis that apparently no one saw coming....or at least not the average person in the street.

Just with the disasters that have occurred during the last year...fires, floods, earthquakes, destructive weather events and other "natural" disasters in unprecedented numbers globally, it looks as if we were set up for this virus to finish us off....both financially, socially and physically. Covid 19 is targeting the elderly and those with chronic health conditions. Comparatively few young people and small children have been victims. Can someone tell us why?

Is there a time in history when we were more vulnerable? Even with all our technology and advanced medical science in this 21st century....we still cannot prevent another "plague" from decimating the world's population.

So in view of the "sign" that Jesus gave concerning "the time of the end" or the time when Jesus was to return to bring the world to an accounting, (Matthew 24:3-14; 37-39) how many "Christians" out there can really deny that this world system is in its death throes?....that we are seeing intensified events of which Jesus spoke, that are making many people very nervous about the immediate future?

Here is a list of the events that Jesus said would mark the "last days".....


Are there Christians who think "the end" is still a long way off? If so, what makes you think so?

It seems to me that you could pretty much pick almost any society / culture at almost any time in human history and from that context, say that those points apply. As the vast majority of all of them are either subjective in nature or they are so generic that they really apply always.

Take the Roman empire. Try and pick a period where they weren't at war somewhere, with someone. Try the same with the US. Sure, there were periods with more war and periods with less. There are no periods without any wars *somewhere*.

Nasty deseases, pandemics/epidemics, famines, natural disasters, unbelievers of your apocalyptic preachings,.... all of these are pretty much ALWAYS present. And the current Cov19 pandemic isn't really all that bad, in contrast to past pandemics like the plague or the spanish flu and whatnot. Even if we would simply allow the virus to sweep through society, its death toll with pale in comparision (proportionally) to the plague, for example.

So no, there is no reason at all to think that "now is the time".
In fact, throughout history there have been times that match these points much better then today.

But as already said: they are so vague and unspecific, that they pretty much can be said to apply all the time, to everything. So they are "always correct". Which, I would add, is probably intentional.
 

GardenLady

Active Member
Jesus said he did not know, only the Father knows. Why should people be obsessed with this now? When He comes, let him find us doing the work of Christian life -- caring for our loved ones and for the needy among us, praying, working, and playing -- the stuff of life.
 

Good-Ole-Rebel

Well-Known Member
Jesus said he did not know, only the Father knows. Why should people be obsessed with this now? When He comes, let him find us doing the work of Christian life -- caring for our loved ones and for the needy among us, praying, working, and playing -- the stuff of life.

Welcome to the forums. True, we should be concerned with our everyday walk with the Lord no matter what the time is.

But it is interesting, and much Scripture has been given concerning the last days. I think what you say is true but that should not mean we don't study to know the last days and compare our times to see how they fit.

Concerning Jesus statement that He did not know the day or hour, (Matt. 24:36), that is true. But at the same time, He gave much description in (Matt. 24-25) and (Luke 21) of those days. And though Jesus did not know at that time the day or hour, I believe the Father has since revealed it to Him, as He later gave Him the Revelation that we have in the book of (Revelation). (1:1) "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him...."

Good-Ole-Rebel
 
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