Question for all jws

cataway said:

why would i not know what your beliefs are . chill
you are JW?

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Why may I ask, are you avoiding my questions, especially the one I am really interested in - the last one?
It's as though you are ignoring my questions, while asking different questions of your own. That seems kind of evasive... well not kinda.

Anyway, I won't torture you anymore. If I didn't give myself away, I would have, but seeing that I let the cat out the bag...
Yes, my sister... or brother, I am, but I really wanted my sister... or brother to learn where she... or he, went wrong, so that you would be fully aware of not repeating it.

I think I would have admitted I was wrong. If I didn't, I would explain why I was not wrong, rather than try to evade, but then, we are imperfect beings, so we may not always do what we think is the right thing to do.
The next time you try to pick a fight though, make sure it's not a fellow brother. Better yet... don't try to pick fights.

Come 'ere.

Sister, or brother?

InChrist said:

You can believe your spirit leaves your body and goes to be with the Lord in heaven because the scriptures say so...


... the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Ecclesiastes 12:7

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Yes, and that it is not a living entity.
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils; - Job 27:3

If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;
All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust. - Job 34:14, 15)

Thou dost take away their spirit, they expire, And return to their dust. - Psalm 104:29

Isaiah 42:5

blü 2 said:

"Dad, what are we actually talking about here?

"What do you mean when you say spirit? And heaven? Something real or something that only exists as a concept in individual brains?

"If spirit is real, show it to me, and then we can go from there. If it's not real, why should we bother?

"If heaven is real, point it out to me, and then we can get into other important things like its system of government. If it's not real, why should we bother?"

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One cannot see one's spirit, or mind or thoughts, and intentions of the heart, nor emotions, but these are not imaginary concepts of the mind. Did I say the mind? Is that real, or just a concept... and if it is not real, then... Now I am confused.

cataway said:

its just far few'er than you want or expected . the earth is man's home .is and will all ways be.
Matthew 5:5
5 “Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth.
i wonder it you have perhaps ever considered what the earth would be like if Satan ,and his horde ,was removed from the earth ? but not only that. but when Jesus take's over and rules the earth ?? sickness and all infirmities were gone . and even death was removed from all of mankind. would you then understand why there is no need for every one to go to heaven ?

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Also, there is Isaiah 45:
12 I made the earth and created man on it. I stretched out the heavens with my own hands, And I give orders to all their army.”
18 For this is what Jehovah says,
The Creator of the heavens, the true God,
The One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmly established it,
Who did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited:

Also Psalms 37:29 The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it.

Also Proverbs 2:
21 For the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it.
22 As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it.

...and many more scriptures.

Frank Goad said:

My dad asked me to day what would it take for me to believe that my spirit goes to heaven when I die.Before I die.I don't have an answer yet.If your dad asked you this what would you say?

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i have always loved pulling this scripture out to read when some one speaks of the spirit of man .
Ecclesiastes 3:
18 ''I, even I, have said in my heart with regard to the sons of mankind that the [true] God is going to select them, that they may see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. 20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust. ''

that same spark ,that same biochemical electricity that powers every living breathing thing is the same in all.

In the time of Jesus (second temple period) there were groups with different beliefs. According to historian Josephus:

They [Pharisees] also believe that souls have an immortal vigor in them and that under the earth there will be rewards or punishments according as they have lived virtuosly or viciously in this life; and the latter are to be detained in an everlasting prison, but the former shall have the power to revive and live again...

The doctrine of Sadducees is this: that souls die with the bodies...

And as for death, if it will be for their glory, they [Essenes] esteem it better than living always; and indeed our war with the Romans gave abundant evidence what great souls they had in their trials, wherein, although they were tortured /... / they smiled in their very pains, and laughed those to scorn who inflicted the torments upon them, and resigned up their souls, with great alacrity, as expecting to receive them again.

For their doctrine is this. That bodies are corruptible, and that the matter they are made of is not permanent; but that the souls are immortal, and continue for ever, and that they come out of the most subtil air, and are united to their bodies as to prisons, into which they are drawn by a certain natural inticement; but that when they are set free from the bonds of the flesh, they then, as released from a long bondage, rejoice and mount upward. And this is like the opinions of the Greeks...

(War of the Jews, Book II)

Deeje said:

we sleep in our graves in an unconscious state until the coming of the Kingdom,

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What is this "we"? So person (soul) continues to exist whether active in other garment or waiting in stand-by mode.

PearlSeeker said:

What is this "we"? So person (soul) continues to exist whether active in other garment or waiting in stand-by mode.

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11 ''He said these things, and after this he said to them: “Lazʹa·rus our friend has gone to rest, but I am journeying there to awaken him from sleep.” 12 Therefore the disciples said to him: “Lord, if he has gone to rest, he will get well.” 13 Jesus had spoken, however, about his death. But they imagined he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. 14 At that time, therefore, Jesus said to them outspokenly: “Lazʹa·rus has died, 15 and I rejoice on YOUR account that I was not there, in order for YOU to believe. But let us go to him.” 16 Therefore Thomas, who was called The Twin, said to his fellow disciples: “Let us also go, that we may die with him.”

Jesus likend death as sleep. sleep that ,Jehovah through ,Jesus could awaken them from .

PearlSeeker said:

What is this "we"? So person (soul) continues to exist whether active in other garment or waiting in stand-by mode.

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“We” as in humankind. The soul is the living, breathing creature, whether man or animal. The soul dies. (Ezekiel 18:4)

The human soul sleeps, awaiting a resurrection...i.e. a return to this life. Like Lazarus....like the widow’s son....and like Jairus’ daughter. That is what a resurrection is. (John 5:28-29)

Deeje said:

“We” as in humankind. The soul is the living, breathing creature, whether man or animal. The soul dies. (Ezekiel 18:4)

The human soul sleeps, awaiting a resurrection...i.e. a return to this life. Like Lazarus....like the widow’s son....and like Jairus’ daughter. That is what a resurrection is. (John 5:28-29)

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I don't understand. Humans soul sleeps? Or human soul dies?

PearlSeeker said:

I don't understand. Humans soul sleeps? Or human soul dies?

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you are a soul. i will check my self, but living or dead you are a soul .

Le 19:28; 21:1, 11; 22:4; Nu 5:2; 6:6; Hag 2:13;

PearlSeeker said:

I don't understand. Humans soul sleeps? Or human soul dies?

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Contrary to popular belief, there is no teaching of an immortal soul in the Bible. "Souls" are living, breathing creatures in the Bible. The word never means a disembodied spirit.

PearlSeeker said:

I don't understand. Humans soul sleeps? Or human soul dies?

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These are one and the same thing as Jesus said "Lazarus is sleeping" which meant that Lazarus had died.
"Sleeping" is a metaphor for an unconscious period of time from which we will awaken.

PearlSeeker said:

In the time of Jesus (second temple period) there were groups with different beliefs. According to historian Josephus:

They [Pharisees] also believe that souls have an immortal vigor in them and that under the earth there will be rewards or punishments according as they have lived virtuosly or viciously in this life; and the latter are to be detained in an everlasting prison, but the former shall have the power to revive and live again...

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The fact that you stated that this was "in the time of Jesus" is important.....please tell me what good things Jesus had to say about the Pharisees and their teachings....(Matthew 23; Matthew 16:6-12)

The doctrine of Sadducees is this: that souls die with the bodies...

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The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection. Jesus did not have a good thing to say about the Sadducees either. He lumped them in with the Pharisees.

And as for death, if it will be for their glory, they [Essenes] esteem it better than living always; and indeed our war with the Romans gave abundant evidence what great souls they had in their trials, wherein, although they were tortured /... / they smiled in their very pains, and laughed those to scorn who inflicted the torments upon them, and resigned up their souls, with great alacrity, as expecting to receive them again.

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Martyrs were those who had the courage to face death for their faith. Jesus did not even mention the Essenes.

For their doctrine is this. That bodies are corruptible, and that the matter they are made of is not permanent; but that the souls are immortal, and continue for ever, and that they come out of the most subtil air, and are united to their bodies as to prisons, into which they are drawn by a certain natural inticement; but that when they are set free from the bonds of the flesh, they then, as released from a long bondage, rejoice and mount upward. And this is like the opinions of the Greeks...

(War of the Jews, Book II)

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Apparently relying on the Jews of any persuasion for the correct teaching was a mistake.....Jesus did not agree with any of them. He did not come to start a new religion, but to liberate the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" from a corrupted religious system that was irreformable. (Matthew 23:37-39)

There is no teaching of an immortal soul in the ancient Jewish texts. The dead are in an unconscious state, (Ecclesiastes 9:5; 10) awaiting the time when God's Kingdom rules this earth, and life can resume as God intended it to......in paradise conditions, with no aging, sickness, suffering or death to spoil the life we were supposed to live.

God did not create humans to live in heaven....he already had angels that he created to live there. He will take a relative "few" to rule with Christ in his Kingdom, but the majority of mankind, can look forward to the kind of life that God gave our first parents in the paradise garden of Eden. I find that very appealing..... (Revelation 21:2-4)

dfnj said:

When we die we go into the light. We experience God's infinite beauty. We become so immersed in eternal Heavenly bliss time stops and we no longer have conscious experience. Looking into the face of God and experiencing God's infinite beauty is the last experience we will ever have. Our soul melts back into God's consciousness from whence it came.

If you want justice you have to find it while you are alive in a court of law. If you have things to do and learn get it done now. Life is short. And there's no afterlife.

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What scriptures in the Bible are you basing your understanding ?

leov said:

not really, e.g. Ecc 12:7 where spirit is summary of non physical elements that animates physical dust.

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“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” Gen 2:7

“Look! All the souls to me they belong. As the soul of the father so also the soul of the son to me they belong. The soul who sins is the one who will die.” Ezekiel 18:4

“Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it. Ecc 12:7

“If you take away their spirit, they die and return to the dust.”

If you send out your spirit, they are created,

And you renew the surface of the ground.” Ps 104:29,30



Clearly, our Creator’s spirit is in fact, the breath of life, which is completely separate from the human soul. Without God’s spirit, there is no soul, therefore the soul does die.

nPeace said:

I certainly don't want to discourage you from believing what JWs teach, but why are you convinced that what they teach is good to believe?

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“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” Gen 2:7

“Look! All the souls to me they belong. As the soul of the father so also the soul of the son to me they belong. The soul who sins is the one who will die.” Ezekiel 18:4

“Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it. Ecc 12:7

“If you take away their spirit, they die and return to the dust.”

If you send out your spirit, they are created,

And you renew the surface of the ground.” Ps 104:29,30



Clearly, our Creator’s spirit is in fact, the breath of life, which is completely separate from the human soul. Without God’s spirit, there is no soul, therefore the soul does die.

cataway said:

the JWs never said no one go's

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JW doctrine limits to 144,000--this isn't a Bible limitation--if it IS, only 144,000 JEWS are going to Heaven (Revelation 7).

BilliardsBall said:

JW doctrine limits to 144,000--this isn't a Bible limitation--if it IS, only 144,000 JEWS are going to Heaven (Revelation 7).

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you do realize they would be Jew's that are now christian. they have to accept that Jesus is the Christ.

Misty Woods said:

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” Gen 2:7

“Look! All the souls to me they belong. As the soul of the father so also the soul of the son to me they belong. The soul who sins is the one who will die.” Ezekiel 18:4

“Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it. Ecc 12:7

“If you take away their spirit, they die and return to the dust.”

If you send out your spirit, they are created,

And you renew the surface of the ground.” Ps 104:29,30



Clearly, our Creator’s spirit is in fact, the breath of life, which is completely separate from the human soul. Without God’s spirit, there is no soul, therefore the soul does die.

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Yes, God's spirit is what sustains life. Adam's life depended on it. If he had only listened, and obeyed, he would have been sustained for ever, just as obedient ones of the great crowd will be.