It is the theology of the author of John, whether it be John the son of Zebedee or a Presbyter John, or another who is the 'beloved disciple'.
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What did Jesus Say? For Discussion not Debate.
- Thread starter dybmh
- Start date
It is the theology of the author of John, whether it be John the son of Zebedee or a Presbyter John, or another who is the 'beloved disciple'.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
I think a nice example of a developed theology was given by King
David ca 1000 BC in his Psalm 22 - the crucified Messiah who died
his people. Another example of a developed theology was Isaiah 53
with the suffering Messiah offered up as the lamb of God.
Developed theology is nice.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Remember when Jesus went to the temple and before that when speaking to the religious leaders.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
What specifically do you want me to remember?
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
In context, Jesus condemned some religious leaders. Either Jesus was right or he was not right. So, taking things in context, we make choices as to what we adhere to, stick to, and believe, religiously and scientifically. Unless, of course, we can't make any decision about beliefs and practices.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Not sure what you are getting at here. I see you as simply stating the obvious.
Jesus' doctrine wasn't much different from many in the Old Testament who loved
God but didn't live by the ordinances. And some of these people spoke of the
Messiah as Redeemer - the one who would pay the price for the sins of mankind.
David fits that category. Maybe Job too. Certainly Jacob.
This is a Christian reading of Hebrew Prophets.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
It was a Jewish reading too, when many Jews saw Jesus suffering on the cross.
What was happening is what they read daily in their scriptures.
Says of Jesus' second coming that He will conquer His enemies and reign in
righteousness, and the Jews will mourn because this Messiah king is the same
one who came to them lowly upon an ***, the one they crucified. Zechariah said
this about 450 years before Jesus came.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I think you're being hyperbolic. Are you sure it was daily?
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Just consider... the story in Zechariah was known... so riding on a donkey is nothing more than recreating a scene...
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Seems the forum didn't like my use of the word a.s.s.
This:
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto
thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an a.s.s, and upon a colt the foal of an a.s.s.
Zech 9:9
It doesn't stay a white stallion, or a gilded chariot or litter. The connection to the donkey clearly signifies
some sort of humility.
The second reference I think is in Zech 12. This speaks of His hands and feet pierced. And the Jewish
nation mourning because they had done this.
This was written ca 520 BC. You should take that on board.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Well, I think they were taught to read their scripture daily.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
It's not in Zech 12, are you talking about 13:6?
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Yes, but, ... well... here's what you said:
"It was a Jewish reading too, when many Jews saw Jesus suffering on the cross.
What was happening is what they read daily in their scriptures.
Says of Jesus' second coming that He will conquer His enemies and reign in
righteousness, and the Jews will mourn because this Messiah king is the same
one who came to them lowly upon an ***, the one they crucified. Zechariah said
this about 450 years before Jesus came."
The elements of the Torah that Christians understand to be talking about Jesus would not be read daily... far from it. They're too distant in the canon and too infrequent. 'Daily' at best is an exaggeration, hyperbolic.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
I think it says in Deuteronomy to read the scripture daily.
If it's your life you shouldn't have to be told.
When Jesus overturned the money tables it says the disciples
"remembered" the scripture where it says "The Zeal of mine
house has eaten me up."
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Zech 12:9 On that day I will set out to destroy all the that attack Jerusalem. And I will pour out on the house of
David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have
pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for
a firstborn son.
There should be no argument whether the coming Messiah is a Redeemer (dying for His people) or a reigning
King - Zechariah, amongst others, show they are one and the same.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
That's for example Jesus having a dialogue with the twelve at the dinner table and constantly speaking in long monologs. And that recorded 60 or more years after the actual event.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Back to the OP.
We don't know what Jesus really said but there is a higher historical probability for some things.
Emphasis on love (not quite the same as being just nice) is throughout NT. Both greatest commandments are actually cited from OT but there are some important points of difference/newness:
Jesus was very likely baptized by JtB. Maybe Jesus was even his desciple (or both were influenced by the Essenes). That seems possible because gospels try very hard to explain that Jesus is greater than John.
We don't know what Jesus really said but there is a higher historical probability for some things.
Emphasis on love (not quite the same as being just nice) is throughout NT. Both greatest commandments are actually cited from OT but there are some important points of difference/newness:
- To love your God and your neighbour as yourself "is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices." "I want mercy not sacrifices." Love is the central teaching. Everything "hangs on" it. It's not just one of the 613 laws. It's more fundamental. It's the constitution. Even the 10 commandments can all be derived from the 2 greatest commandments of love.
- Another newness: love can only be fulfilled from the inside. It's not just an outside acts or set of outer purity rituals. Real purity is purity in the heart. Love comes from the heart, where also all the bad things come from. "First clean the cup from the inside." That's why it is said in the Sermon on the Mount: your righteousness must be greater..., blessed are the pure in heart..., who looks at the woman with lust in his heart...
- Love includes also forgiveness and loving your enemies.
Jesus was very likely baptized by JtB. Maybe Jesus was even his desciple (or both were influenced by the Essenes). That seems possible because gospels try very hard to explain that Jesus is greater than John.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
When you are born a baby and nearly die. As I did. I grew to see human suffering far worse than my own body and wondered at the meaning of it, spiritually. And then see the greed, the inequality, the suffering and sacrifice, and the history of it. And then angrily say to spirit, okay if you are real and expect me to believe, then show me. And a quiet voice said...live the spiritual life and it will be proven.
And it was.
Today like all days my family who I love dearly are dying sacrificed. And once again I angrily say to spirit....for what reason?
And the answer is human greed and human liars.
Most humans today wonder if the life of Jesus as a human was real. I learnt it was...for I lived an attacked radiation fall out condition, and learnt what it is like to be flogged and feelings of cutting by radiation as I saw spirit emerge, and talking spirits.
I learnt what it was like to bear the crown of thorns brain chemical radiation burning of my brain...and I heard my brother in his past life speaking. For he was real, although most of you do not really believe he was.....factually.
He stated, I was sacrificed on the binding to wood. Meaning we live bound to the Tree of Life.....oxygenation of our atmosphere. We live because we breathe oxygen.
He stated his life in sacrificed attack bore that attack multi times. I lived multi attacked experiences in my natural life, and so has many other of my human family in multi world countries...experienced life in attack, to be sacrificed and to survive.
Therefore science, to discuss life in attack have to discuss 2 conditions.
The planetary movements, the Earth stone, changes to the stone and changes to the gases and natural light.
Meanwhile life sacrificed is also discussed relative to the state natural light 12.
Natural light burns and sacrifices the gas spirits in the Heavens daily non stop sacrifice of the spirit of light. And it is saved from burning by oxygen and water evaporation or the water of life...our baptism.
Daily.
When science does ground nuclear fission reactions, the holy water and oxygen cannot keep our life safe...and we get irradiated, lose our natural chemical that binds cells and blood to be held inside of our bodies.
The sacrifice of our brother was medically studied and he was a demonstrator in the public forums, to show the public his STIGMATA was caused by Satanic sciences, the Temple builders, the owners of building the Temples with pyramid conversion of the fusion of God...the stone fusion.
Factual human history, factual occurrence.
Therefore they forecast and realized the attack, for it had occurred many times.
If you were going to prove science self wrong, what would you personally have to achieve as self proof that science is a liar?
Forecast it, and then demonstrate it....as he did. Public announcement and then witnessed. So that the documentation of it was proven by legal cause.
Which it was, it was legally advised and legally witnessed by a multi population.
So it is stated he was crucified and it was seen, it was involved with the Temple sciences, conversion. He was crucified over the time period of his life nearly dying, and his body cells released unnatural fluids by its own accord.
Then he was taken down from the cross of his burden. Meaning what was binding him to the attack, of his spirit and body, water and oxygen was given back to him naturally.
So he was wrapped in the linen or bandages it is said....the females tended his wounds.
And he did not die, he had returned from the dead, meaning his cellular destruction in a miraculous healing.....only because the attack occurred over the period of the cross.
Now in Nature the event is the attack on the Tree of Life in its natural garden history, autumn. So when you say to self, as a scientist, life on Earth historically in the Nature Garden owned no ICE.
So trees did not own autumn nor winter.
In modern day life, doing science placed a huge strain upon the Tree of Life to which we ARE ALL BOUND.
Huge autumn losses and then rebirth, and to be reborn it also uses up a lot of energy.
So if Nature is attacked in the season and science does not follow the seasons, it only owns one condition...to attack and destroy by extra introduced radiation.
What do you think that the ancient medical science community proved to a lot of evil minded lying nuclear scientists?
Therefore if you used common sense for once, if a human demonstrated a greater life body attack on the CROSS of the sea of the son.....then he proved that science was destroying natural life on Earth.
And the temple pyramid sciences were forbidden, and the buildings pulled down and machinery dismantled.
Why the buildings no longer had any machinery in them...science was finished.
When humans say, he arose from the dead.....then the human life was saved from its radiation attack.
When science says and the body went missing out of the tombs, then the Earth had released some of its owned water gas mass cooling history...and so a huge radiation attack on life had occurred.
When energy gets released out of the ground it owned the reason for the earthquake....as Earth shifted its physical mass. The only reason that the gases would stop burning, would be because the planet factually fell through space and dropped.
Ask science as a historian, if you were the original males on first Earth as a scientist and you did not want to be bound to life...and the Garden nature, the body before you kept you bound...what would science claim it would need to achieve?
The gases to stop burning and for the stone to be pulled out of its spirit heavenly body.
Why do you think it happens in this exact act of causes?
And it was.
Today like all days my family who I love dearly are dying sacrificed. And once again I angrily say to spirit....for what reason?
And the answer is human greed and human liars.
Most humans today wonder if the life of Jesus as a human was real. I learnt it was...for I lived an attacked radiation fall out condition, and learnt what it is like to be flogged and feelings of cutting by radiation as I saw spirit emerge, and talking spirits.
I learnt what it was like to bear the crown of thorns brain chemical radiation burning of my brain...and I heard my brother in his past life speaking. For he was real, although most of you do not really believe he was.....factually.
He stated, I was sacrificed on the binding to wood. Meaning we live bound to the Tree of Life.....oxygenation of our atmosphere. We live because we breathe oxygen.
He stated his life in sacrificed attack bore that attack multi times. I lived multi attacked experiences in my natural life, and so has many other of my human family in multi world countries...experienced life in attack, to be sacrificed and to survive.
Therefore science, to discuss life in attack have to discuss 2 conditions.
The planetary movements, the Earth stone, changes to the stone and changes to the gases and natural light.
Meanwhile life sacrificed is also discussed relative to the state natural light 12.
Natural light burns and sacrifices the gas spirits in the Heavens daily non stop sacrifice of the spirit of light. And it is saved from burning by oxygen and water evaporation or the water of life...our baptism.
Daily.
When science does ground nuclear fission reactions, the holy water and oxygen cannot keep our life safe...and we get irradiated, lose our natural chemical that binds cells and blood to be held inside of our bodies.
The sacrifice of our brother was medically studied and he was a demonstrator in the public forums, to show the public his STIGMATA was caused by Satanic sciences, the Temple builders, the owners of building the Temples with pyramid conversion of the fusion of God...the stone fusion.
Factual human history, factual occurrence.
Therefore they forecast and realized the attack, for it had occurred many times.
If you were going to prove science self wrong, what would you personally have to achieve as self proof that science is a liar?
Forecast it, and then demonstrate it....as he did. Public announcement and then witnessed. So that the documentation of it was proven by legal cause.
Which it was, it was legally advised and legally witnessed by a multi population.
So it is stated he was crucified and it was seen, it was involved with the Temple sciences, conversion. He was crucified over the time period of his life nearly dying, and his body cells released unnatural fluids by its own accord.
Then he was taken down from the cross of his burden. Meaning what was binding him to the attack, of his spirit and body, water and oxygen was given back to him naturally.
So he was wrapped in the linen or bandages it is said....the females tended his wounds.
And he did not die, he had returned from the dead, meaning his cellular destruction in a miraculous healing.....only because the attack occurred over the period of the cross.
Now in Nature the event is the attack on the Tree of Life in its natural garden history, autumn. So when you say to self, as a scientist, life on Earth historically in the Nature Garden owned no ICE.
So trees did not own autumn nor winter.
In modern day life, doing science placed a huge strain upon the Tree of Life to which we ARE ALL BOUND.
Huge autumn losses and then rebirth, and to be reborn it also uses up a lot of energy.
So if Nature is attacked in the season and science does not follow the seasons, it only owns one condition...to attack and destroy by extra introduced radiation.
What do you think that the ancient medical science community proved to a lot of evil minded lying nuclear scientists?
Therefore if you used common sense for once, if a human demonstrated a greater life body attack on the CROSS of the sea of the son.....then he proved that science was destroying natural life on Earth.
And the temple pyramid sciences were forbidden, and the buildings pulled down and machinery dismantled.
Why the buildings no longer had any machinery in them...science was finished.
When humans say, he arose from the dead.....then the human life was saved from its radiation attack.
When science says and the body went missing out of the tombs, then the Earth had released some of its owned water gas mass cooling history...and so a huge radiation attack on life had occurred.
When energy gets released out of the ground it owned the reason for the earthquake....as Earth shifted its physical mass. The only reason that the gases would stop burning, would be because the planet factually fell through space and dropped.
Ask science as a historian, if you were the original males on first Earth as a scientist and you did not want to be bound to life...and the Garden nature, the body before you kept you bound...what would science claim it would need to achieve?
The gases to stop burning and for the stone to be pulled out of its spirit heavenly body.
Why do you think it happens in this exact act of causes?
Psalm23
Well-Known Member
Jesus said in John 6:37 ( NIV): "All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away."
I like the time in the gospels where Jesus blessed the children.
"Then they brought little children to Him, that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked those who brought them.
But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God.
Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”
And He took them up in His arms, laid His hands on them, and blessed them."
Mark 10:13-16( NKJV )
I like the time in the gospels where Jesus blessed the children.
"Then they brought little children to Him, that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked those who brought them.
But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God.
Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”
And He took them up in His arms, laid His hands on them, and blessed them."
Mark 10:13-16( NKJV )