MonkeyFire
Well-Known Member
Fear is immune to evil, I'm immune to fear.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Are love and fear both good for turning to G-d?
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
If fear is needed to try and make you love then it is a toxic and dangerous relationship.
Jedster
Well-Known Member
Being immune to fear does not mean you are immune to evil.
Erebus
Well-Known Member
If all that matters is that as many people as possible worship God, it's irrelevant whether they do it out of love or fear. The only real consideration then would be which is more effective for converting people. I suspect fear is probably the easier route, though love would be more lasting. I'll leave that one up to the inquisitors.
If the well-being of believers is a consideration, I would argue that worshiping because you fear the consequences of not worshiping probably isn't healthy. That said, if inquisitors are involved then unhealthy worship is probably the better option for you. Being stretched on the rack is terrible for your joints.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
If there is burning fire one wont' go into it, it is not toxic one would agree. Right, please?
Regards
There is no burning fire.
Are you claiming to not be a fallible human being?
Awe, wonder is the beginning of wisdom. Fear has only to do with loss of something for self. Love has something to do with gain of something for all.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
i
At its simplest: per Psalms 138:6, humility creates an environment where G-d is close. A person who is humble is like an empty vessel. Fear, when applied as awe and restraint is a way of cultivating this humility, this emptiness of pride.
But it goes deeper than that, because, your question asks about the situation when a person turns to G-d. When this happens ( maybe in prayer, mediation, or in spontaneous gratitude ) it's natural for a person to feel a sense of accomplishment, pride, and possibly privilege as a result. This fills up a person... the vessel becomes full...the person is not humble, G-d becomes more distant. It's counter productive.
In the circumstance where a person is often turning to G-d in prayer, meditation, etc, without focusing on fear of G-d, awe of creation, restraint from pride, they are more likely to filled up.. filled up already before they even begin praying... and that's a problem. Fear ( awe / restraint ) is the antidote to this condition. Fear when applied as awe or restraint creates the environment where the Divine can be close. It empties the vessel. That's how fear is useful when turning to G-d. It's most useful, IMHO, to counter act the natural tendency away from humility, where a person becomes full of them self, and that often comes hand in hand from turning to G-d if fear is not valued.
Certainly, in the analogy people are vessels.
At its simplest: per Psalms 138:6, humility creates an environment where G-d is close. A person who is humble is like an empty vessel. Fear, when applied as awe and restraint is a way of cultivating this humility, this emptiness of pride.
But it goes deeper than that, because, your question asks about the situation when a person turns to G-d. When this happens ( maybe in prayer, mediation, or in spontaneous gratitude ) it's natural for a person to feel a sense of accomplishment, pride, and possibly privilege as a result. This fills up a person... the vessel becomes full...the person is not humble, G-d becomes more distant. It's counter productive.
In the circumstance where a person is often turning to G-d in prayer, meditation, etc, without focusing on fear of G-d, awe of creation, restraint from pride, they are more likely to filled up.. filled up already before they even begin praying... and that's a problem. Fear ( awe / restraint ) is the antidote to this condition. Fear when applied as awe or restraint creates the environment where the Divine can be close. It empties the vessel. That's how fear is useful when turning to G-d. It's most useful, IMHO, to counter act the natural tendency away from humility, where a person becomes full of them self, and that often comes hand in hand from turning to G-d if fear is not valued.
Last edited:
What would be fire only? The symbolic attributes of our nature are the: earth, air, water, fire and the void.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
"Fear has only to do with loss of something for self."
Fear of the enemy is a collective fear of a nation. Right, please?
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
My understanding of life is that G-d has bestowed it to us to inculcate His attributes in our selves. It has become a tribulation for us as we have attraction to goodness as well as to evil. We cannot save ourselves from pull to evil without constant effort and without help from G-d. Right, please?
Regards
_____________
[67:2]تَبٰرَکَ الَّذِیۡ بِیَدِہِ الۡمُلۡکُ ۫ وَ ہُوَ عَلٰی کُلِّ شَیۡءٍ قَدِیۡرُ ۣۙ﴿۲﴾
Blessed is He in Whose hand is the kingdom, and He has power over all things;
[67:3]الَّذِیۡ خَلَقَ الۡمَوۡتَ وَ الۡحَیٰوۃَ لِیَبۡلُوَکُمۡ اَیُّکُمۡ اَحۡسَنُ عَمَلًا ؕ وَ ہُوَ الۡعَزِیۡزُ الۡغَفُوۡرُ ۙ﴿۳﴾
Who has created death and life that He might try you — which of you is best in deeds; and He is the Mighty, the Most Forgiving.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 67: Al-Mulk
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
It depends as there is an unhealthy kind of fear and a healthy respect of God.
John the apostle says in 1 John 4:18 that "'he who fears is not perfected in love"
but there is a healthy fear of God where one trembles in His presence with awe and respect
so.... depends
A healthy does of fear of God and 'love of God" can go together
Some of the greatest promises are to those who love God, such as Deuteronomy 7:9, Romans 8:28, 1 Corinthians 16:22, Ephesians 6:24
In Naria, Mr Beaver said of "Alsan is not 'safe', but He's good."
Last edited:
If you're using the burning fire to try and force people to love you then it is most definitely toxic.
MonkeyFire
Well-Known Member
They cant hurt you if you dont suffer.
Yes and no. You are attributing more of an anthropomorphic efforts of what God does. The second is that every different religion and division of the religions assert that there is only one way to this, their way.
Jedster
Well-Known Member
Not being able to feel fear can be dangerous.
Fear can be a warning of danger.
Have you researched "people who don't feel fear".?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I give two such links.
What would happen if you didn't feel fear?
https://www.quora.com/What-would-happen-if-you-didnt-feel-fear
"Be grateful for the blessing of fear"
https://www.quora.com/If-a-person-c...n-be-unable-to-feel-any-other-emotion-as-well
So fear is a blessing.
Regards