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Are You Glad the IQ Morality Tests Presented by Yeshua in the Bible is Too Complex for Most?

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
I don't find Jesus hard to understand at all.
For you to use a Hebrew word meaning the 'Beast that shall tear away', and not know this, means you don't understand it, else you'd call us by our real name Yehoshua or Yeshua.

Isaiah 51:8 For the moth will eat them up like a garment, and the grub (j+sēs - יסס) shall eat them like wool; but my righteousness will be forever, and my salvation (Yeshua) to all generations.
Except for claims about himself
The Tanakh shows in clear detail that it was prophesied, the idea people reject the Tanakh, and then claim to be a Jew, is why the Curse of Moses was placed onto everyone (Deuteronomy 32:15-22).
"Jesus the Pharisee"
Yeshua was prophesied in the Tanakh to be the spirit of the Lord made manifest (Exodus 15:2, Psalms 118, Isaiah 52:10-14); implying an Elohim is a Pharisee, is really stupid sorry, it is like saying the Source of reality is Jewish.
he basically teaches Judaism
Yeshua directly stood against made up Babylonian Pharisaic Judaism, as prophesied in Zechariah 11, Jeremiah 25:29-38, Jeremiah 10:21, etc, as the Leaders of our people (Rabbi) became brutish, and rejected God's prophets, where they'd created their own Oral Traditions.

Matthew 23, Mark 7:1-13 condemn Pharisaic/Rabbinic Judaism as no longer following Torah, and instead following their own made up Traditions, as we see in things like the Talmud, etc.

In Zechariah 11:15-17 it explains that after the Destruction of the 2nd temple, and Diaspora, the Leaders will lie to our people, blinding them to seeing the Curse of Moses has been placed onto them (Zechariah 12:4, Deuteronomy 28:28-29)...

Until the return of the Messiah in Ezekiel 34, where the 'Leaders who feed themselves are removed', and the Messiah takes back his rightful role.

If it is understood I've been sent from Heaven by God, and can show I'm King David returned, then we can prevent the end of humanity; if not everyone will soon die in the Great Tribulation, and after those who've accepted the Mighty Work of the Lord, will be here after (Zechariah 8:6-8).

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Yeshua was prophesied in the Tanakh to be the spirit of the Lord made manifest (Exodus 15:2, Psalms 118, Isaiah 52:10-14); implying an Elohim is a Pharisee, is really stupid sorry, it is like saying God is Jewish.
Wizanda, usually I just don't reply to you, but every once in a while I do, just toremind you why I don't.

1. None of the verses you cite say what you said they say, aka none of them say that the messiah will be God. None of them even mention "The spirit of the Lord made manifest" (which can actually mean many different things). Quoting scriptures that don't say what you say that they say is a regular problem with you.

2. You use idiosyncratic definitions of Hebrew. You know very well that in almost all cases, Elohim refers to God, the One God. Occasionally it refers to the heavenly court, which is not divine. But the messiah is not one of the heavenly court either. The messiah is a human being, a descendant of David, which makes him, of course, Jewish. Circumcision and all.

Anyhow, these two habits of yours really make it impossible for the two of us to have a constructive dialogue.

But I do wish you well.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
Not only have I watched the video, I got my dad to years ago, and also he read the book; where then we've spent years debating its fallacies.

You're doing the same as my dad, you're wrapped in a narrative that on study doesn't match the texts or history; there are videos debunking Joseph Atwell, as it is very sloppy, and has lots of mistakes...

What stated as an argument is my own, that over turns everything Joseph Atwell is stating: Rome did not adopt Christianity under the Flavians 100AD, it wasn't historically until after 300AD.

He didn't realize that John, Paul, and Simon the Stumbling Stone, is a purposeful prophetic deception that was established in Rome to be Antichrist, and then he cites their texts to make a case.

In my opinion.
:innocent:

Are you sure your opinion is not based on a strong bias and prejudice. I'm not sure Rome adopting Christianity until after 300AD has anything to do with the argument being made. To debunk this you would have to show the "40 topological associations all in the SAME sequence and in the same locations between the two literally works compared" was incorrect. if those data points are valid, then someone could then agree with Atwell's theory based on these data points. Are saying the 40 topological associations do not exist?
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Wizanda, usually I just don't reply to you, but every once in a while I do, just toremind you why I don't.
As the person capable of proving I'm sent from Heaven as King David before your imminent destruction, the idea you'd ignore the Messiah proves scripture was right in Divorcing Judah.
None of the verses you cite say what you said they say, aka none of them say that the messiah will be God.
Elohim doesn't mean God, it means a Divine Being, and unfortunately the Curse of Moses was placed on the Jews, for rejecting Monotheism, and replacing it with Henotheism during the Babylonian exile.

El is the Source of reality, add a H to it, means it is breathed by the Source into manifestation (Divine Being), and adding IM to it means it is plural Divine Beings.
Quoting scriptures that don't say what you say that they say is a regular problem with you.
Why not ask if you don't understand why scripture was posted, rather than assuming the Messiah is wrong, as you know more than the text.

If we understand the different references in Isaiah, it states the Messiah has the Spirit of the Lord placed onto him (Isaiah 11:2), and in Isaiah 52:10-14, we are told that King David who was appointed in Psalms 89:19-21 as the Messiah, is then paraphrased in Isaiah 52:13-14 to suffer the things of Isaiah 53, with the Lord's spirit placed into him (Isaiah 52:10 - Yeshuat Elohenu).
You know very well that in almost all cases, Elohim refers to God, the One God.
It has been badly translated like that, which is why I systematically use Esword to look at the language, and check what was originally implied.

The Divine Beings all come from the One Source; yet they are manifestations from it, that have a form, and therefore only the Source should be worshipped, like the 2nd commandment stated.
Occasionally it refers to the heavenly court, which is not divine.
Psalms 82:1 says that the Lord, is Lord of Lords over the Divine Council.
But the messiah is not one of the heavenly court either.
The Messiah is the spirit of Yahavah/Yeshua placed into the flesh of David, where the Lord shall be King over his people.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Are saying the 40 topological associations do not exist?
Many of them come from false made up texts by the Roman Empire (John, Paul, and Simon); when we examine what Yeshua actually said in the Synoptic Gospels, the case is built on bad foundations.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
Many of them come from false made up texts by the Roman Empire (John, Paul, and Simon); when we examine what Yeshua actually said in the Synoptic Gospels, the case is built on bad foundations.

Can you just cite one. I would like to research it.

I don't trust anyone so I would like to confirm what Atwill is saying.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
they're the most read books in human history

Your fallacy: Argumentum ad populum.

Why would that matter even if true (you have a bad habit of simply making pronouncements without details or data)? Never mind that these holy books contradict one another. You haven't made a case that there is any value in reading these so called holy books. Holy is a word without (literal) meannig to me, like sin and grace. They're just old books with too little relevance to pay attention to.

Many of the world's religions explain a way to be of a humble disposition

I'm not looking for explanations on how to live. I determined that myself through the application of rational ethics.

They explain we're down near Hell

No they don't. And even if they did, you never seem to be able to assimilate the idea that there are people who simply won't believe a single thing that you or anybody else says with a sound reason. I have zero reason to believe what you are saying. Neither do you, but of the two of us, only I need one better than the mere will to believe - faith.

The religions teach us to be disciplined, so we conform to being a better person

No they don't. Consider Christianity. It teaches believers to despise unbelievers. Look at you running through this thread with your hair on fire calling others fools and stupid. Is that what you mean by being a better person?

religions have helped shape society to have its ethical standards we accept today.

The ethical standards of no religion are adequate. They're too old and out of date. If you get your rules of behavior from the Christian Bible, you'll advise your slave to obey his master and for subjects of the king to submit to him as God's appointed earthly ruler. Wars have been fought to upend those horrible ideas out of so-called holy books.

The values characteristic of secular humanism, which eclipse all of the religions, aren't found in any holy book. Which god has advised man to trust reason and evidence over dogma, one of the great intellectual advances in the history of mankind?

This determinism to be opposite to learning wisdom from religious texts, leads to the conversation being foolish - sorry.

Sorry, but what you call wisdom, I call foolishness. Yes, I know your scriptures "prophecy" that, just as I can now prophecy that if I go about preaching others and call it wisdom, they will balk.

the periodic table proves that we're inside a mathematical matrix

Not to me. You just make things up and pronounce them as fact.

And, of course, as usual, you missed the point: thousands of religions and god made up, one periodic table revealed by empiricism.

I do not follow a religion built on blind faith

Of course you do. All god-centered religion is faith-based.

you're arguing past me, with no real sense of what I'm even speaking about.

Nobody knows what you're talking about except that you thing you're a messiah, that we're close to hell, and that you think others should study religious texts.

you're now evangelizing Atheistic propaganda

You started the thread to evangelize your brand of religion. Nobody here is pushing atheism on you. You're the evangelizer. I don't care if you're an atheist or not.

That's a big difference between the two of us. You care very much about converting others to your way of thinking. I don't. Feel free to dip a chicken talon in goat's blood, hammer it to a post, and dance around it all night shaking a stick while howling at the moon if that is what centers you and gives your life meaning, a moral grounding, and a framework for understanding the universe.

And I have no propaganda, nor do I employ indoctrination. That's you. You simply keep repeating the same unevidenced claims in the hope of getting them past the defenses of critical thinkers, but you can't. That's for church - you, know, "Jesus loves me this I know, 'cause the Bible tells me so." Repeat. Repeat again. That's propaganda. That's your world.

As the person capable of proving I'm sent from Heaven as King David before your imminent destruction

I don't think you know what the word prove means. Proof is that which convinces. Which of your claims do you think you have convinced anybody of?
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Christianity was established in Antioch to Paul & Simon's ministry (Acts 11:25-26); they were both Pharisaic in doctrine.

The Pharisees believed that "the death of the righteous could atone for the sins of this generation"; so they concluded 'jesus' came to die.
They were not pharisaic. You need to read Acts more carefully.

The pharisees approved Jesus death. They did not know He was the righteous sacrifice. They thought they were getting rid of their enemy.
The Gospel of John is written by the Sanhedrin to discredit Yeshua, and Simon from the start of his ministry, according to Acts taught idolatry, and human sacrifice as the Gospel.
I believe the gospel of John is one of the most powerful and spiritual books in the Bible. I don't understand the blind hatred of the book of John. It's my favorite gospel. What I see in the book of John is beautiful.
Only those worthy are Born Again; Yeshua said it in context of an unworthy Pharisees.
No one is worthy but God.
If we study the claims, and look at all the data from all the world's religious texts; someone would be crazy not to study it all before Judgement Day.

Like the Bible clearly shows my name as the new name of Christ; we just need to study it to show it logically.

Revelation 3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar (Sandalphon) in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God (Zion - Psalms 146:10, Psalms 147:12, Isaiah 52:7), the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name (Sananda).
All the world's religious texts wold include the book of John and the epistles of Paul, Peter and John.
This directly contradicts Yeshua in the Synoptic Gospels, where he challenged the Sanhedrin for murdering prophets for atonement (Matthew 23:27-38, Mark 7:1-13 + Parable of Wicked Husbandmen - Matthew 21:33-46, Mark 12:1-12, Luke 20:9-19), and it is following the Pharisees (John, Paul, and Simon).

As Revelation says the world has been mislead by the Beast (j+sēs), and the Synagogue of Satan; people just miss the contexts.
They didn't murder for atonement. If they had known who He was and what He was dying for then they would not have done it. They murdered for envy, hatred and fear. They did evil, but God meant it for good. They were blinded so that the will of God could be done.

Jesus said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"
That is a false statement from the Gospel of John (John 18:36); this world will become God's in the Messianic Age (Matthew 5:5), it has been taken over by Satanic people.
So God is powerless against satanic people? And they took over the world against the will of God?

God said to the Messiah "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."

So the Messiah ascended into heaven to rule there over heaven and earth. The world is given over to satan for a time; but it's all under God's control so that Psalm 2 can be fulfilled. On earth the heathen rage and imagine a vain thing. Which is that they can rebel against God and the Messiah. But they will fail.

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

The test in the Bible is to catch out the Ravenous, who don't see it is morally evil to torture a man, especially in front of his mother.

In my opinion. :innocent:
Of course it's morally wrong. As I pointed out they did it for evil reasons. But God means it for good. God Himself came to die for our sins. This is how He has chosen to fight evil and exalt love forever.

Because the first universe is unstable and coming undone. But the new heaven and earth will be founded on what Jesus did on the cross and how He rose from the dead. This way it will be on that "Tried stone" that "precious cornerstone" the "sure foundation" of Jesus Christ. And so it is "tried" because it was tested on the cross. Tested to death and it is "sure" because His victory is certain for all time. He rose once from the dead bringing immortality. That's why we call the resurrection the "sure mercies of David".

Now everything will be tested by fire and whatever stands the test will remain forever.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
Talmudic Judaism are the heirs of the pharisaic oral tradition not Christianity. The Pharisees completely rejected Christ and Christianity. I shouldn't have to remind you that Paul was severely persecuting the Christians until he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. At which time he turned his back on his old life. He said he counted it all as dung. He did not any longer care for his honor as a "pharisee" except he did use it to try to win Pharisaic Jews to Christ.
Pauline/Johanine Christianity are also heirs because Paul and the writer of the book of John were both Pharisees. Paul said he was a Pharisee after he as preaching his gospel and the book of John was written from the perspective of a Pharisee.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Never mind that these holy books contradict one another.
Real religious books by Divine Authors don't contradict each other; people do.
I'm not looking for explanations on how to live. I determined that myself through the application of rational ethics.
From our dialogue so far your posts show you to be uncourteous, brash, and assumptive, whilst projecting your ego.

Because you don't take into account the ethical standard we could be down near Hell, you speak like a legal prosecutor; which in Hebrew is called Hasatan - The Accuser.

To put it in a simple format, Heaven is a place above us of unconditional loving beings, Hell is a place of unconditionally taking beings, we're somewhere between them realms in Middle Earth.

Therefore we have to look for where we are illogical, not look to challenge like a being possessed with a need for revenge, it doesn't show insight to not find wisdom.
No they don't.
The Bible Says Hell is a Place Located Under the Earth

Chapter 16 – Bhagavad Gita
I have zero reason to believe what you are saying. Neither do you, but of the two of us, only I need one better than the mere will to believe - faith.
OK this is where it normally starts getting mental, when someone's ego starts projecting, and speaking for someone.

As a child I was told specific prophetic fulfilment from all the world's religions, at 5-6 years old that Yeshua didn't go around saying "I Am", and the world had been deceived by this is self evident (John, Paul, and Simon).

At 15 the Source of reality told me to read the religions, and I'd see the mysteries of the world, and it explained global eschatology; where this can be shown to be the same as it stated, in many religious texts globally.

At 21 I fulfilled Revelation 10, and was told how Yeshua came as a Snare by his Testimony (Isaiah 28:11-22), and that its closure all the demons will be removed (Isaiah 28).

I didn't read the Bible until 24, and then realized the things told to me in advanced detail as a child were correct; thus it isn't faith, it is knowledge, with confirmation via evidence.
No they don't. Consider Christianity. It teaches believers to despise unbelievers. Look at you running through this thread with your hair on fire calling others fools and stupid. Is that what you mean by being a better person?
OK, just stop, read the OP, understand the title of the OP.

Christianity is the Great Deception, it is a misrepresentation of Yeshua's teachings in the Synoptic Gospels, to turn it into a cult following the idol j+sēs - יסס in John, Paul, and Simon.

This was prophesied in the Tanakh, and in Jude, James, Revelation, Quran, they all confirm the corruption took place; yet people don't read all the texts in the IQ morality test, else they'd know this.

The question of the OP is should we show Christians at a university level study of the religious texts online, that they've followed contradictions, as they're not wise enough to see, and could we use the internet, like Religious Forums to justify the debates?
Which god has advised man to trust reason and evidence over dogma, one of the great intellectual advances in the history of mankind?
There is just one Source to reality, all religions speak of it in different ways.

Imagine a jigsaw with each picture being a religious culture, and ideologies; they each speak about the same Source of reality, there isn't multiple realities.

The idea you think like this is very religious, do you get that? Like to perceive there is different Gods, different religious dogma over another, are religious ideals.
Sorry, but what you call wisdom, I call foolishness.
Proverbs 9:8 Don’t reprove a scoffer, lest he hate you. Reprove a wise person, and he will love you.

Isaiah 28:22 Now therefore don’t be scoffers, lest your bonds be made strong; for I have heard a decree of destruction from the Master, the Lord of Hosts on the whole earth.


Not to me.
The periodic table is mathematically divided by the different atomic structures, we can create new elements, and compounds by maths.

A Matrix is a mathematical grid for values to exist within, the periodic table, and therefore everything we look at in our reality is all a mathematical grid by definition.
And, of course, as usual, you missed the point: thousands of religions and god made up, one periodic table revealed by empiricism.
Sorry for not acknowledging your point, that you think this is a science vs religion debate...

I get you think that, and would like you to be more educated, to understand I use science, and maths to explain the reality; as well as religions, philosophy and anything else, that can be shown to create a logical idea of our reality.

Missing out data that we don't understand, is illogical.
Of course you do. All god-centered religion is faith-based.
Again ego is when we start speaking for someone.

Maybe you've missed I had a Near Death Experience at 21, and thus have met the Source of reality, and fulfilled Revelation 10 three years before reading the Bible at 24.

I do not have faith I've been to the Grand Canyon, I remember it, and can describe what I saw in graphic detail.
Nobody knows what you're talking about except that you thing you're a messiah, that we're close to hell, and that you think others should study religious texts.
Educated people understand, don't worry.
You care very much about converting others to your way of thinking. I don't. Feel free to dip a chicken talon in goat's blood, hammer it to a post, and dance around it all night shaking a stick while howling at the moon if that is what centers you and gives your life meaning, a moral grounding, and a framework for understanding the universe.
It means we can accept immoral behaviour, if we do not care to study if it is immoral; if people can believe what they want, this shows we allow child molestation for example, if it is in their religious texts. :eek:

If we're down near Hell, we can show this world is corrupt everywhere; the bigger something is, the more corruption there is.

To not assess if things are immoral, is a basic requirement for being moral.

I do not evangelize a single religion, I've read many texts, and accept all wisdom universally, I've no boundaries or labels.

Yet we need to recognize religions are there to teach us moral social boundaries in the past, and without a social cohesion, like any form of global social legal collapse, people become animals again.

Take into account the Torah means the Law, and in our modern society we follow a Legalistic system of society, that then governs social constraints; something always has to maintain order.
That's for church - you, know, "Jesus loves me this I know, 'cause the Bible tells me so." Repeat. Repeat again. That's propaganda. That's your world.
It is very clear you've been forcibly indoctrinated by Christianity, and I feel honestly sorry for you, I was as well, and know how it feels; yet to go opposite, and choose stupidity, when the text shows they are clearly hypocritical by definition of the examination papers, is not the logical way to proceed.
Which of your claims do you think you have convinced anybody of?
Why would I convince anyone, that is proselytizing, and that isn't allowed on here.

I'm trying to see if people can reason logically before the end of humanity as prophesied, and then after we understand why crazy people rejected logic in the Age to Come.

In my opinion.
:innocent:
 
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wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
I don't understand the blind hatred of the book of John.
Here are over 30 contradictions between the Synoptic Gospels, and the Gospel of John...

The Bible is a purposeful IQ morality test, where we have a series of patterns, and then a false pattern at the end to test our observations of the Testimony using the Law.
They didn't murder for atonement.
Yeshua challenged the Sanhedrin for saying that the murdering of the prophets counted as atoning sacrifices in Matthew 23:27-38, Mark 7:1-13, and the Parable of the Wicked Husbandman (Matthew 21:33-46, Mark 12:1-12, and Luke 20:9-19).

The Parable of the Wicked Husbandmen, literally says they will teach people you get an inheritance from the death of Yeshua, until Judgement Day; where then God will condemn those who believe it.
So God is powerless against satanic people? And they took over the world against the will of God?
We're down near Hell, and all of us could be destroyed instantly, and replaced with true worshippers of the Source; yet it is trying to educate us, else why send the prophets, and create religious texts for us to study.

Thus as Messiah I'd like the 'Good News' to be that King Zion Elohim is here (Isaiah 52:7), the return of Yeshua Elohim (Isaiah 52:10), who suffered for his people.

Yet generally people just accuse, mock, and ridicule the things of God, as they don't understand them; therefore prophecy relates people won't accept it, and then Judgement comes, and after those who listen to the Law, and to the prophets will be here after.

Basically I'm explaining the exam results in the hopes some people study the exam; if not they get deleted at Judgement Day according to texts globally as One (Revelation 3:18).

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
From our dialogue so far your posts show you to be uncourteous, brash, and assumptive, whilst projecting your ego.

I'm not interested in what you think of me personally.

And I have not been discourteous to you. I have merely told you that I don't believe you, that you appear to be here to promote some religious doctrine, that neither you nor any scripture are authoritative to me, and the like. What you are calling rudeness is merely intractability. I won't go where you are.

And of course I project my ego, as do you. It's who I am.

To put it in a simple format, Heaven is a place above us of unconditional loving beings, Hell is a place of unconditionally taking beings, we're somewhere between them realms in Middle Earth.

Yeah, I know you believe that and you know that I don't. So why keep repeating it? So that I can tell you again that I have no reason to believe you?

it doesn't show insight to not find wisdom.

If intelligence is the ability to get what you want, wisdom is knowing what to want - what will make one happy and where to apply that intelligence. I'm happy. You don't seem very happy to me. You seem tormented. So you really have nothing to offer.

You call me rude, but it's you that presumes to teach others how they should think and live. I've told you that I already have a worldview that has served me well for the decades since I left religion, which did not serve me well - the reason I abandoned it.

So where is the wisdom in returning to such a state deliberately?

The Bible Says Hell is a Place Located Under the Earth

I don't care what the Bible says. It's just an old book like the Iliad, which I also don't quote or live my life by.

Christianity is the Great Deception

I don't know if it's THE great deception or just one of them.

it is a misrepresentation of Yeshua's teachings

I am not interested in Yeshua's teachings. There's nothing there. And I've already told you that I am not looking for a guru to tell me how to live. I've decided that on my own and am content with the outcome.

I would share my secrets with you, but I know that you would be uninterested, and to tell you how to live unasked by you would be rude.

Maybe you've missed I had a Near Death Experience at 21, and thus have met the Source of reality

Your fallacy: Not sequitur - your conclusion does not follow from what preceded it. I have no reason to believe that the source of reality is met during a NDE. I believe that you met your own mind in an unfamiliar state.

Educated people understand, don't worry.

This is your arrogance and excessive ego shining through now. I don't see any sign of education in you. You've spent hours reading and thinking about ideas that I find valueless.

And no, I doubt that anybody knows what you are talking about, including some pretty well-educated people that have participated in this thread. You don't actually say anything.

we can show this world is corrupt everywhere; the bigger something is, the more corruption there is.

This is a typical religious idea. Sure, there is plenty of corruption, but there is also plenty of goodness and integrity among people as well, something the religions won't tell you. They have a stake in defining the world in dire and desperate language so that they can then sell you the solution - one way, through them. The more frightened and uncertain people are, the more they cling to religion for comfort.

Yet we need to recognize religions are there to teach us moral social boundaries in the past, and without a social cohesion, like any form of global social legal collapse, people become animals again.

My world is quite cohesive without religion. The people I socialize with (or did until social distancing) are friendly, happy, polite people living out their retirement years together. Religion would likely divide us, not create more social cohesion. Religion and politics are famously reputed to cause division, and are often topics off-limits in certain social settings just to keep the peace.

It is very clear you've been forcibly indoctrinated by Christianity, and I feel honestly sorry for you, I was as well, and know how it feels; yet to go opposite, and choose stupidity, when the text shows they are clearly hypocritical by definition of the examination papers, is not the logical way to proceed.

Why would I convince anyone

You repeatedly say that you have proven this or that. I was pointing out to you that proving is convincing, and that if you've convinced nobody of anything, you've proven nothing.

Others will tell you when you have proven something to them, not you, just as they will tell you if you were funny to them or not, not you. Telling a thread you have proven something to them when nobody is convinced is like a stand-up comedian telling his audience that he was hilarious when nobody laughed.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
God makes it clear in the scriptures that no one is good. No one seeks God. No one understands. All are corrupted and have gone out of the way. Only the unmerited favor/love of God saves anyone. Everyone (without God) is blind and wandering around. So we all fail the morality IQ test.

I believe it is plain enough: Love your neighbor as yourself. If it gets difficult knowing how to do that, Jesus is available through the Paraclete to clear things up.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Then why would you assume what I put as being highly logical, is in some way made up..

This is based on a logical appraisal of the text:

Basically when Yeshua warns 'not to store your treasure where moth (sēs) and rust do decay, and corrupt (Luke 12:33-34)'; the word sēs is direct from the Hebrew (G4597 = H5580), they didn't translate a word they could have, as it is symbolism.

Isaiah 51:8 For the moth will eat them up like a garment, and the grub (j+sēs - יסס) shall eat them like wool; but my righteousness will be forever, and my salvation (Yeshua) to all generations.

Moses renamed Hosea son of Nun, to Yehoshua son of Nun, the additional yod, implies he 'Shall + be savoir' or the new word makes the 'Lord Saves'.

When we add an additional yod onto the word sēs, it makes it mean 'it Shall + tear away' or 'it Shall + trample down'.

Yeshua said that "the time of the Gentiles shall trample down" (Luke 21:24), the name 'j+sēs' is clear symbolism of that meaning.

In my opinion. :innocent:

Ibelieve I would like to see that logic. I am good at logic and a lot of people are not.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Religion and politics are famously reputed to cause division, and are often topics off-limits in certain social settings just to keep the peace.
Something that is broken aggravates people: religions and politics apply social moral boundaries, that need cohesion to be functional.

Imagine if we had a global democracy under a spiritual theocracy, as people need to have a sense of control within their own lives, and be able to make change to be able to be pro-creators in the world.

We've lost track of any leadership, and the planet is failing, as the people who lead are not wise enough to see the deliberate mistakes they've been making.
So where is the wisdom in returning to such a state deliberately?
The wisdom is that if someone stamps their feet, and won't move when pushed; someone tried to push them when young, and they became strong to people trying to challenge them.
I don't care what the Bible says. It's just an old book like the Iliad, which I also don't quote or live my life by.
How can we have a rational conversation, when you're ignoring half the conversation?

Do you get how illogical it is to say, "I don't care" about there being proof that the context of our conversations are real? :confused:
Telling a thread you have proven something to them when nobody is convinced is like a stand-up comedian telling his audience that he was hilarious when nobody laughed.
When we're in a university lecture in front of an audience globally on religious dialogue, and the teacher asks, "did you understand?"

Then the audience as you wake up from snoring laugh, as you can't answer the exam paper, having not read the text on the page, as you "don't care what the Bible says". :facepalm:

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Imagine if we had a global democracy under a spiritual theocracy

Theocracy and democracy are mutually exclusive forms of government. I'm opposed to any form of theocracy.

people need to have a sense of control within their own lives

I already have that.

We've lost track of any leadership, and the planet is failing, as the people who lead are not wise enough to see the deliberate mistakes they've been making.

Perhaps, but religion is not the answer. Religion facilitates the fraud. The more religious people are, the easier to defraud them, since they're willing to believe by faith and trust others who claim to have their interests at heart such as their clergy or TV preachers.

How can we have a rational conversation, when you're ignoring half the conversation?

I told you that I do not consider the Bible authoritative. I read and studied it when I was a believer, and I am repeatedly re-exposed to it on sites like this one. I know what it says, and I have no further interest in returning to that source for anything.

I have no reason to believe that it isn't the thoughts of ancients. We should be teaching them, not the other way around. I'd begin by telling them that slavery is immoral. Oh, and loving enemies is a pretty bad idea as well. Also, meekness, which is the failure to be assertive when appropriate, is a curse, not a blessing.

Do you get how illogical it is to say, "I don't care" about there being proof that the context of our conversations are real?

That's not what I say.

What I say is that I don't go to the Bible for anything, that nothing can be proved with it other than that it is full of internal contradictions and vague text. If there is a single true word in it, that would be determined not by consulting the Bible, but by consulting some external source of confirmation from academia.

Bottom line here: [1] I don't believe anything by faith - I need a sound reason to believe - and you have nothing but unevidenced claims (scripture is not evidence for claims about the world, just for claims about what scripture alleges), and [2] my life is what I wanted it to be. I'm not looking for another way to think or live. We live humbly and are happy. So you are trying to selling ice cubes to an eskimo.

But thanks for your interest. And please notice that I haven't tried to change your mind about anything. I'm only telling you that I don't believe you and what it would take to change mine.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Theocracy and democracy are mutually exclusive forms of government.
Sorry I get we've been lied to bout the way society functions, which is why people argue it, as it is stupid currently.

A democracy means Rule of the People, and a Theocracy means Rule By God.

When a true theocracy is establish with a King appointed by God, the spiritual King still has a council, and that council bases policy on what people want (Democracy), as well as instruction from spiritual wisdom (Theocracy).

Currently we've got an oligarch plutocracy, where there is no democracy; people don't have any say in what happens, and corporations rule over us, as the nobles did before them.

If we look at when wolfs were reintroduced into Yellowstone Park, this caused multiple animals to then gain protection from having strong leaders at the top of the pecking order.

To re-establish a theocracy is to remove the fake wealthy self appointed leaders, and have someone with the confidence to make positive change from Divine inspiration, rather than suppression, like in our current flawed system.
Religion facilitates the fraud.
Any large body in this world becomes corrupt, the bigger the boat, the more antifouling needs painting yearly, to stop barnacles, osmosis, etc, breaking into the hull.

People who blame religion as a whole as being the cause of the problems, shows a lack of logic from ego; as religion is often something that tries to unite people under a common cause of having better morality.
The more religious people are, the easier to defraud them, since they're willing to believe by faith and trust others who claim to have their interests at heart such as their clergy or TV preachers.
Sorry your answers are getting worse... This is very illogical, and just argumentative to the point of stupidity.

There are multiple religions in the world, lots are highly intellectual, to assume that all are faith based, and that people who follow said logic are stupid, when we've not studied them is ego. :eek:

I've often heard this same argument in chatrooms on Paltalk, people who are Anti-theists, claiming they're Atheists often do this:

Where because they're just racist bigots who refuse to study other people's culture, where they often were force-fed Christianity in some way, and assume all religion has the same cult mentality, they then go on to say all religion globally is for stupid people, as they all follow the same cult mentality. :facepalm:

This thread is specifically about explaining how Christianity is a purposeful Snare (Isaiah 8:11-22), that is put there to catch out hypocrites (Zechariah 5, Isaiah 29:9-14) who don't even read the religious texts, yet have the audacity to insult all of them globally as being stupid. :oops:

You see Moses Curse catches out those who follow it, and those who go against it (Deuteronomy 28-30:10) to see who pays attention...

This is why it is called the Marvellous Work of the Lord, as people are argumentative, they think they win, when they go opposite (Deuteronomy 32:21-22).
I told you that I do not consider the Bible authoritative. I read and studied it when I was a believer
That is the problem, when you believed the Bible upside down, and didn't realize it should have said the Evil Bible on it; we should then study the opposite, not assume logic is stupid as that makes us even more hypocritical.

This thread is about how the Bible is an IQ morality hypocrite test, so far you follow it so much you don't even realize this, and are trying to win a debate, by going opposite to wisdom. :confused:
I know what it says, and I have no further interest in returning to that source for anything.
Clearly this is not the case, considering the amount of errors in comprehension already shown, and if we developed a real conversation about what you still believe in the Bible: there will be a reason you've got most things backwards, else you'd not be down here near Hell before the Great Tribulation.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Here are over 30 contradictions between the Synoptic Gospels, and the Gospel of John...

The Bible is a purposeful IQ morality test, where we have a series of patterns, and then a false pattern at the end to test our observations of the Testimony using the Law.
No contradictions. Just misunderstandings as the holy Spirit predicted there would be.

Isaiah 6:9-10

Isaiah 29:11-14

Isaiah 53:1
Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

Matthew 13:19
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Proverbs 1:6 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
These sayings will help you understand proverbs, stories with hidden meanings, words of the wise, and other difficult sayings.

John 6
When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Yeshua challenged the Sanhedrin for saying that the murdering of the prophets counted as atoning sacrifices in Matthew 23:27-38, Mark 7:1-13, and the Parable of the Wicked Husbandman (Matthew 21:33-46, Mark 12:1-12, and Luke 20:9-19).

The Parable of the Wicked Husbandmen, literally says they will teach people you get an inheritance from the death of Yeshua, until Judgement Day; where then God will condemn those who believe it.
Anyone who kills Jesus doesn't get any inheritance. Believing in the death of Jesus is not seizing His inheritance. Jesus is the source code as you always like to talk about and He has come to repair us all. To remake us into His image or rewrite us according to the will of God. (Jeremiah 18:6) Jesus is the 7 days of creation. Each a period or advent of the Light of God. In which all things are made and being made for God is not finished.

Jesus rebuked Peter for trying to forbid Him from dying on the cross. There is a reason for that.
Jesus had to die. The Word of Life was silent so long as He lived. As the Spirit hovered over the face of the deep in silence but when He spoke He said "Let there be Light".

That's why Jesus is the hope of everyone and the Light and the Life. Jesus is the Light and the way for anyone to be in line with the "source code" That is the very Word of Creation itself and so they won't be destroyed.

He only speaks through death because the Word of Life is resurrection power. This is the commandment of God as predicted Psalm 133:33. There in Zion; God gave the command "even life forevermore". Which is the very moment when Jesus rose from the dead and put death to destruction. That commandment for Jesus to rise to life is extended for all of us who believe and trust in Him.

So God promised to destroy death and the grave.

Hosea 13:14
I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

And together with "my dead body" shall they arise. That is to mean that no one will be raised without Jesus. Jesus is the resurrection and the life.

Isaiah 26:19
Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

So the scripture says "oh death where is thy sting O grave where is thy victory?"

You must make the connections and understand what is written or John won't profit you anything.
We're down near Hell, and all of us could be destroyed instantly, and replaced with true worshippers of the Source; yet it is trying to educate us, else why send the prophets, and create religious texts for us to study.

Thus as Messiah I'd like the 'Good News' to be that King Zion Elohim is here (Isaiah 52:7), the return of Yeshua Elohim (Isaiah 52:10), who suffered for his people.

Yet generally people just accuse, mock, and ridicule the things of God, as they don't understand them; therefore prophecy relates people won't accept it, and then Judgement comes, and after those who listen to the Law, and to the prophets will be here after.

Basically I'm explaining the exam results in the hopes some people study the exam; if not they get deleted at Judgement Day according to texts globally as One (Revelation 3:18).

In my opinion. :innocent:
The true King of Zion is in heaven at the right hand of God having all power in heaven and in earth in His human hands to save all who believe in Him and He has power over life and death.
 
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