The Lord's Day, is it really Sunday?

3rdAngel · Mar 20, 2020

Redemptionsong said:
The reason I don't believe what you say about grace is that your conclusions are incompatible with the gospel of grace preached by Paul. The conclusion you reach is that the Church, both Jew and Gentile, is under an obligation to cease work on a Friday night in accordance with Jewish tradition. You say that we are under an obligation to spend Friday/ Saturday worshiping God and resting. I say that this is the letter of the law, a work of man's own righteousness, not the Gospel of grace.

Nonense my dear friend. I believe you are confused by stating things I am not saying even after I have provided you with direct clarification in case you had a misunderstanding through the scriptures in the past. Once again shame on you as your being dishonest trying to claim things I do not believe. I am sorry my dear friend but I just see your post as a denial of the scripture shared with you in love as it seems your simply denying God's Word and looking for excuses not to believe and follow God by breaking His commandments. How do we know if we know God or not?

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.[4], HE THAT SAID, I KNOW HIM, AND KEEPS NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

All those who profess to believe and follow God's Word by faith are under obligation to believe and follow God's Word through faith. Those who do not believe and follow are not God's Sheep *JOHN 10:26-27. They are those who may have a form of godliness but deny God's power to save them from their sins which we are told to turn away from *2 TIMOTHY 3:5. They are of the same group that JESUS says depart from my you who practice sin (breaking Gods Law) I never knew you *MATTHEW 7:22-23.

For me I believe and follow God's Word and so should you as I believe the scriptures teach if we are given a knowledge of God's truth and turn away from it to continue in known unrepentant sin there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgment to come...

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, [27], BUT A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed, ignoring it does not make it disappear. The Sabbath was made for all mankind before any JEW existed according to the scriptures *GENESIS 2:1-3; MARK 2:27-28

Let me ask you my dear friend, is a Christian under obligation through love and faith....

Not to lie?
Not to steal?
Not to commit murder?
Not to commit adultery?
Not to covet?
Honor our father and mother?
Not to have any other God but God?
Not to use the Lords name in vain?
Not to make idols and bow down to them?

Can you see the logic in your argument?

Yep the last one as our duty of love to God is to..

Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy as a memorial and celebration of God as our creator.

Hope this helps.

dfnj · Mar 20, 2020

3rdAngel said:
Q. WHAT DAY IS THE "LORD'S DAY" ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE?

A. MATTHEW 12:8 [8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Which day is the Lord's Day? THE SABBATH DAY (MATTHEW 12:8; MARK 2:27-28)

God's WORD says that the SABBATH DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY!

There is NO scripture that says Sunday or the FIRST DAY of the week is the Lords Day. God's Word says the Lord's day is the Sabbath day. This is the day God rested on, he set apart and made a Holy day at the completion of the creation week and made a memorial for all mankind (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11). Jesus is the God of creation and he is the Lord of the Sabbath day (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27-28)

Can you show from the scriptures alone that Sunday is "THE LORDS DAY" if not why not? If we cannot are we following man made teachings that break the commandments of God that JESUS warns us about in Matthew 15:3-9?

May God bless you all as you seek him through his Word.

I don't know about scripture but Jesus has been mythologized as a "Sun" god:

3rdAngel · Mar 20, 2020

dfnj said:
I don't know about scripture but Jesus has been mythologized as a "Sun" god:

Indeed that is what this OP is about over here...

The Great Deception of Christianity - Departing the Faith (the Word)

Have a look at this post in this op starting here linked (point 10 link in the OP)

This is what the prophetic scriptures teach is the antichrist and Great mother Whore and the mother of harlots named BABYLON THE GREAT in REVELATION 14:6-12; REVELATION 17:1-6 and REVELATION 18:1-5.

I did have a look at your video but did notice it was full of errors in it and unsupported facts, claims and statements (e.g Horus and other pagan god's references to the biblical are simply unfounded statements unsupported by any evidence.). There is some factual comparisons though to who the bible calls the church of Babylon (RCC) and her daughters (apostate protestantism) that have brough the ancient teachings of sun whorship into the churchs.

Thanks for sharing.

2ndpillar · Mar 20, 2020

3rdAngel said:
Nonense my dear friend. I believe you are confused by stating things I am not saying even after I have provided you with direct clarification in case you had a misunderstanding through the scriptures in the past. Once again shame on you as your being dishonest trying to claim things I do not believe. I am sorry my dear friend but I just see your post as a denial of the scripture shared with you in love as it seems your simply denying God's Word and looking for excuses not to believe and follow God by breaking His commandments. How do we know if we know God or not?

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.[4], HE THAT SAID, I KNOW HIM, AND KEEPS NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

All those who profess to believe and follow God's Word by faith are under obligation to believe and follow God's Word through faith. Those who do not believe and follow are not God's Sheep *JOHN 10:26-27. They are those who may have a form of godliness but deny God's power to save them from their sins which we are told to turn away from *2 TIMOTHY 3:5. They are of the same group that JESUS says depart from my you who practice sin (breaking Gods Law) I never knew you *MATTHEW 7:22-23.

For me I believe and follow God's Word and so should you as I believe the scriptures teach if we are given a knowledge of God's truth and turn away from it to continue in known unrepentant sin there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgment to come...

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, [27], BUT A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed, ignoring it does not make it disappear. The Sabbath was made for all mankind before any JEW existed according to the scriptures *GENESIS 2:1-3; MARK 2:27-28

Let me ask you my dear friend, is a Christian under obligation through love and faith....

Not to lie?
Not to steal?
Not to commit murder?
Not to commit adultery?
Not to covet?
Honor our father and mother?
Not to have any other God but God?
Not to use the Lords name in vain?
Not to make idols and bow down to them?

Can you see the logic in your argument?

Yep the last one as our duty of love to God is to..

Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy as a memorial and celebration of God as our creator.

Hope this helps.

I think you are trying to take the splinter out of this guys eye, without removing the one in your own. This guy apparently looks at Paul's gospel of grace differently than you. The problem being is that his view can also be taken from the false prophet Paul's writings. Disregarding that Paul's gospel of grace is false, it might be interesting to know what you think Paul's false gospel of grace/cross really is.

3rdAngel · Mar 20, 2020

2ndpillar said:
I think you are trying to take the splinter out of this guys eye, without removing the one in your own. This guy apparently looks at Paul's gospel of grace differently than you. The problem being is that his view can also be taken from the false prophet Paul's writings. Disregarding that Paul's gospel of grace is false, it might be interesting to know what you think Paul's false gospel of grace/cross really is.

Sorry I do not see it that way. Firstly I do not see Pauls gospel as any different to the rest of God's Word and secondly if I only provide God's Word as supportive evidence for what is shared here what beam are you talking about? It is God's Word not mine and it is my view that we should believe and follow it over the teacings and traditions of men that seek to break the commandments of God. According to JESUS and the apostles all who knowingly follow man made traditions and teachings that break the commandments of God when they have been given a knowledge of the truth and reject God's Word are not following God *MATTHEW 15:2-9; MATTHEW 7:16-27; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:6-10; JAMES 2:18-26; HEBREWS 10:26-39; ACTS 17:30-31; ACTS 5:29. I believe God's Word support my position as shown through the scriptures in this thread and I can nothing but to share what I believe it true as these are God's Word not mine and he calls those who have ears to hear and eyes to see to believe and follow him.

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God) and follow him. Those who choose not to hear will not follow because they are not God's Sheep *JOHN 10:26-27

Redemptionsong · Mar 20, 2020

3rdAngel said:
1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.[4], HE THAT SAID, I KNOW HIM, AND KEEPS NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

This passage you quote from 1 John 2:3-4 demonstrates the difference in our understanding, or interpretation, of scripture.
You have consistently argued that keeping God's commandments means keeping the Ten Commandments [the letter of the law]. I see things differently, and understand this passage to say that we are to keep only Christ's commandments TO LOVE [the Spirit that fulfils the law].

John 15:10. 'If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

John 15:12. 'This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Having accepted Christ's commandment to love, you don't then take a backward step and try to keep the letter of the law, because this has the effect of killing the Spirit.

Romans 7:6. 'But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.'

Faith and love are entirely without legal obligation, but the law is not. The law obliges you to keep it, through fear of punishment. And failure to keep the Ten Commandments brings judgment and death.

Christ delivered us from the law, by fulfilling the law. Instead, we have the righteousness of Christ in SPIRIT.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit, the grace of God, is 'love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperence: against such there is no law.'

Do you notice that Paul says, 'against such there is no law'?
Why would you have us go back to the law?!

3rdAngel · Mar 20, 2020

Hello RS, I am going to break this response down into a series of smaller posts praying that you may read them. I pray that you may prayerfully read these posts shared with you and consider them as I believe you will be blessed by them if you seek to believe and follow God's Word. I have read through your post and your intepretation of the scriptures I see is that you interpret the scriptures you provide as God's law of LOVE being separate to and nothing to do with God's 10 commandments right? Well I wish to examine this claim in detail in a friendly discussion looking at the scriptures. Are you ok with this?

Redemptionsong said:
This passage you quote from 1 John 2:3-4 demonstrates the difference in our understanding, or interpretation, of scripture.

Indeed. It seems we follow a different JESUS as we have a different understanding of the Word of God as foretold in MATTHEW 24:24. We both therefore should be as the faithful Bareans and examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith or not. Do you agree? I believe your faith is not biblical and I wish to show you why if you can be open to prayerfully consider the scriptures I share with you and why I believe your interpretation of the scriptures is in error. All I ask is a prayerful open and honest heart and I believe you will receive a blessing from God.

to be continued...

3rdAngel · Mar 20, 2020

Redemptionsong said:
You have consistently argued that keeping God's commandments means keeping the Ten Commandments [the letter of the law]. I see things differently, and understand this passage to say that we are to keep only Christ's commandments TO LOVE [the Spirit that fulfils the law].

No I have not dear friend. Let's look at your claims and the facts. I have never said any such thing. Here you go again trying to make claims no one is making. Where have I said everytime it says LAW or KEEPING GOD'S COMMANDMENTS means the letter of the law or God's 10 commandments? If I have never claimed or said these things why are you pretending that I have? This is being dishonest and your seeking to build "strawman arguments" again no one has ever said or believes.

3rdAngel · Mar 20, 2020

Redemptionsong said:
You have consistently argued that keeping God's commandments means keeping the Ten Commandments [the letter of the law]. I see things differently, and understand this passage to say that we are to keep only Christ's commandments TO LOVE [the Spirit that fulfils the law].

It is the scripture and chapter contexts that determines the meaning and application of the english words commandments or law in both the Hebrew word Torah and the Greek words Nomos and Entole.

For example if we look at JAMES...

JAMES 2:10-12 [10], For WHOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW, AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL. [11], For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, SAID ALSO, DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU COMMIT NO ADULTERY, YET IF YOU KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW. [12], So speak you, and so do, as they that shall be JUDGED BY THE LAW OF LIBERTY.

The Greek word used here for LAW is νόμος; nomos and by itself has many meaning in the greek that include; (to parcel out, especially food or grazing to animals); law (through the idea of prescriptive usage), generally (regulation), specifically (of Moses [including the volume]; also of the Gospel), or figuratively (a principle): - law. (Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G3551). The greek word of itself is simply refering to law it does not say what law. The application and meaning as to what law (civil laws; ceremonial law, laws in ordinances, laws for remission of sins and sin offerings, health laws or all collective laws and every law etc) is determined in the scripture and chapter contexts. In the example above the context and application is to Gods 10 commandments. This example of JAMES 2:10-12 above is only one of many example that can be shown for the Greek words Nomos, Entole and the Hebrew Torah and how the Hebrew and Greek language is used. The scripture chapter and within scripture context determines subject matter not the simple word meanings (which can be many in these languages) in isolation of context.

Hope this helps...

3rdAngel · Mar 20, 2020

Redemptionsong said:
John 15:10. 'If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. John 15:12. 'This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Having accepted Christ's commandment to love, you don't then take a backward step and try to keep the letter of the law, because this has the effect of killing the Spirit.

The reason I believe you are in error here dear brother is that you look at these scriptures and interpret love and law as being separated from each other leading you to an interpretation of the scriptures that they are different laws and have nothing to do with each other. While it is true that one can seek there salvation outside of love through the letter of the law which is not biblical, the other extreme that is also not biblical is thinking one can love by not being obedient to God's Law. What we are sharing here is a change of heart to love which is God's new covenant promise through the Spirit that God's law is established in the life of those who are born again and circumcised in heart to love *HEBREWS 8:10; ROMANS 2:27-28. This was pointed out to you earlier by showing from the writings of JESUS, PAUL, JAMES and JOHN that love is the motive from the inside out *MATTHEW 5 that fulfills and establishes God's LAW (10 Commandments) in the life of the believer in God's Word ROMANS 8:4; ROMANS 13:8-10. Which is God's work of the new covenant promise in *HEBREWS 8:10-12 from JEREMIAH 31:31-36. Let's look at the scriptures in detail that show why I believe your understanding is in error starting with God's new covenant promise and work through the writings of JESUS and the Apostles as the good news of the Gospel of JESUS Christ is salvation from sin and a new heart to love and it is love that establishes and fulfills God's LAW through the Spirit as we believe and follow God's Word *GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 3:31

WHAT IS GOD'S NEW COVENANT PROMISE TO MANKIND?

HEBREWS 8:10 [10], FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAID THE LORD; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: AND I WILL BE TO THEM A GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE TO ME A PEOPLE

Love is expressed and fulfilled in obedience to God's Law as shown by a new heard to love. This is expressed here in the words of JESUS here...

DOES JESUS SEPARATE LOVE AND LAW?

MATTHEW 22:36-40 [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

JESUS is saying you cannot separate love and law because on these two great commandments of love to God and love to man hang all the law and the prophets
Now notice in the book of ROMANS PAUL is expressing this exact same views as JESUS that we cannot separate love and law and that on the commandments of love hang all the law and the prophets here...

DOES PAUL SEPARATE LOVE AND LAW?

ROMANS 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man anything, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], FOR THIS, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

Paul shows this elsewhere when talking about faith here...

ROMANS 3:31, Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

This is what it means to walk in God's Spirt as shown here...

ROMANS 8:4 4, THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT

GALATIANS 5:16 WALK IN THE SPIRIT AND YOU SHALL NOT FULFILL THE LUSTS OF THE FLESH

DOES JAMES SEPARATE LOVE AND LAW?

JAMES shows the same thoughts as JESUS and PAUL here...

JAMES 2:8-11 [8], IF YOU FULFILL THE ROYAL LAW ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURE, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF, YOU DO WELL: [9], But IF YOU HAVE RESPECT TO PERSONS, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS. [10], For WHOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW, AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL. [11], For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, SAID ALSO, DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU COMMIT NO ADULTERY, YET IF YOU KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW. [12], So speak you, and so do, as they that shall be JUDGED BY THE LAW OF LIBERTY.

You cannot separate LOVE and LAW my dear friend as it is LOVE alone which is God's new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12 that circumcises the heart through the Spirit to establish God's LAW *ROMANS 3:31 in the life of the believer who is born again *1 JOHN 3:6-9 and is how love is expressed to God and our fellow man *MATTHEW 22:36-40.

Can you see why I believe your claims of trying to separate law and love is not biblical dear brother? According to the scriptures shared with you above God's love is expressed, established and fulfilled through God's Law not outside of it. For example as Paul says in ROMANS 13:8-10 if we love our fellow neighbore we will not lie, not steal not commit adultery, not murder them, etc just the same as if we love God we will have no other Gods, no idols, not use God's name in vain and remember to keep God's Sabbath as a holy day of rest in honor of God as the creator of heaven and earth. We need a new heart of love to be born again to follow God and this is the good news of the Gospel of JESUS Christ revealed in God's only begotten son to those who believe and follow God's Word *JOHN 3:16-21; HEBREWS 8:10; 1 JOHN 3:6-9. Those who practice sin (breaking God's 10 commandments) and those who do not practice sin is the difference between the children of god and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:9-10; 1 JOHN 2:3-4.

According to the scriptures I believe no one accepts Christs commandment to love while knowingly continuing to practice breaking any one of God's 10 commandments because JESUS says as well as JAMES and PAUL. On these two great commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40. If we break anyone of God's 10 Commandments in fact it is evidence we do not love God and is why JESUS says "IF you love me keep my commandments *JOHN 14:15.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.

2ndpillar · Mar 20, 2020

3rdAngel said:
Sorry I do not see it that way. Firstly I do not see Pauls gospel as any different to the rest of God's Word and secondly if I only provide God's Word as supportive evidence for what is shared here what beam are you talking about? It is God's Word not mine and it is my view that we should believe and follow it over the teacings and traditions of men that seek to break the commandments of God. According to JESUS and the apostles all who knowingly follow man made traditions and teachings that break the commandments of God when they have been given a knowledge of the truth and reject God's Word are not following God *MATTHEW 15:2-9; MATTHEW 7:16-27; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:6-10; JAMES 2:18-26; HEBREWS 10:26-39; ACTS 17:30-31; ACTS 5:29. I believe God's Word support my position as shown through the scriptures in this thread and I can nothing but to share what I believe it true as these are God's Word not mine and he calls those who have ears to hear and eyes to see to believe and follow him.

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God) and follow him. Those who choose not to hear will not follow because they are not God's Sheep *JOHN 10:26-27

Your quote from John 10:26-27 is also used by the people you are lecturing. What you haven't done, is answer my question as to what is the Paul's gospel of grace to you in a forthright manner. Answering that question will expose to a whole lot of double mindedness. As for God's Word, that is God's Word according to you and the Babylon daughter church you came riding in on. Your NT Word of god is comprised of mostly the false prophet Paul, his associates, and many unknown authors. A little leaven spoils the whole loaf, and you have added the leaven of the Pharisee Paul, with the bread. This gives you no apparent credibility, power nor spirit. As for your Mt 7:16-26, you are building your house on the sand foundation of Peter (petros/little stone) and Paul, which is to say you think you are "saved" if you believe and follow Paul, which is of course antithetical to the testimony of Yeshua. Say what you believe and let the ravenous wolves expose your bones.

3rdAngel · Mar 20, 2020

2ndpillar said:
Your quote from John 10:26-27 is also used by the people you are lecturing.

Yea not really. The people I am sharing with are claiming believing without following.

2ndpillar said:
What you haven't done, is answer my question as to what is the Paul's gospel of grace to you in a forthright manner. Answering that question will expose to a whole lot of double mindedness.

You did not ask any questions. You simply made statement that Paul's gospel is a false one to which I replied I do not see Pauls gospel as any different to the rest of God's Word and secondly if I only provide God's Word as supportive evidence for what is shared here what beam are you talking about? It is God's Word not mine and it is my view that we should believe and follow it over the teacings and traditions of men that seek to break the commandments of God. According to JESUS and the apostles all who knowingly follow man made traditions and teachings that break the commandments of God when they have been given a knowledge of the truth and reject God's Word are not following God *MATTHEW 15:2-9; MATTHEW 7:16-27; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:6-10; JAMES 2:18-26; HEBREWS 10:26-39; ACTS 17:30-31; ACTS 5:29. I believe God's Word support my position as shown through the scriptures in this thread and I can nothing but to share what I believe it true as these are God's Word not mine and he calls those who have ears to hear and eyes to see to believe and follow him. You have only made statements unsupported by any evidence in my view.

2ndpillar said:
As for God's Word, that is God's Word according to you and the Babylon daughter church you came riding in on.

Not really, I believe your only making a lot of empty claims and statements you cannot prove to be honest.

2ndpillar said:
Your NT Word of god is comprised of mostly the false prophet Paul, his associates, and many unknown authors. A little leaven spoils the whole loaf, and you have added the leaven of the Pharisee Paul, with the bread. This gives you no apparent credibility, power nor spirit. As for your Mt 7:16-26, you are building your house on the sand foundation of Peter (petros/little stone) and Paul, which is to say you think you are "saved" if you believe and follow Paul, which is of course antithetical to the testimony of Yeshua. Say what you believe and let the ravenous wolves expose your bones.

I am not sure who is getting into your ear but I do not believe it is God or your claims biblical in my opinion but you are entitled to your view, although I do not share it.

Nice talking to you.

2ndpillar · Mar 21, 2020

3rdAngel said:
Yea not really. The people I am sharing with are claiming believing without following.

You did not ask any questions. You simply made statement that Paul's gospel is a false one to which I replied I do not see Pauls gospel as any different to the rest of God's Word and secondly if I only provide God's Word as supportive evidence for what is shared here what beam are you talking about? It is God's Word not mine and it is my view that we should believe and follow it over the teacings and traditions of men that seek to break the commandments of God. According to JESUS and the apostles all who knowingly follow man made traditions and teachings that break the commandments of God when they have been given a knowledge of the truth and reject God's Word are not following God *MATTHEW 15:2-9; MATTHEW 7:16-27; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:6-10; JAMES 2:18-26; HEBREWS 10:26-39; ACTS 17:30-31; ACTS 5:29. I believe God's Word support my position as shown through the scriptures in this thread and I can nothing but to share what I believe it true as these are God's Word not mine and he calls those who have ears to hear and eyes to see to believe and follow him. You have only made statements unsupported by any evidence in my view.

Not really, I believe your only making a lot of empty claims and statements you cannot prove to be honest.

I am not sure who is getting into your ear but I do not believe it is God or your claims biblical in my opinion but you are entitled to your view, although I do not share it.

Nice talking to you.

Let me make my question clear. What is the gospel of grace? As for your "Word of God", which includes the writings of unknown writers, and the false prophet Paul himself, that would be the definition of a sandy foundation. Paul, whose name means "little" (least), does not teach to keep the law and the prophets (Matthew 5:17-19). You apparently know that Constantine intended to "make alterations in times and in law", but fail to recognize that your mother Roman church, instituted by Constantine, canonized your NT bible, and was apparently notified by the sun god Sol Invictus/Apollo to conquer under the sign of the cross, which is also the image for Constantine's Trinity, and the image for the gospel of grace/cross. Per Revelation 13:4, one worships the dragon/devil by worshipping the beast/Constantine. In Constantinople, the pillar of Constantine bore a statue of Constantine, with the face of Apollo.

3rdAngel · Mar 21, 2020

2ndpillar said:
Let me make my question clear. What is the gospel of grace? As for your "Word of God", which includes the writings of unknown writers, and the false prophet Paul himself, that would be the definition of a sandy foundation. Paul, whose name means "little" (least), does not teach to keep the law and the prophets (Matthew 5:17-19). You apparently know that Constantine intended to "make alterations in times and in law", but fail to recognize that your mother Roman church, instituted by Constantine, canonized your NT bible, and was apparently notified by the sun god Sol Invictus/Apollo to conquer under the sign of the cross, which is also the image for Constantine's Trinity, and the image for the gospel of grace/cross. Per Revelation 13:4, one worships the dragon/devil by worshipping the beast/Constantine. In Constantinople, the pillar of Constantine bore a statue of Constantine, with the face of Apollo.

Why you would think God is not in control of His Word is beyond me. To me it only shows a lack of faith. Paul is not a false prophet. Once again empty claims you cannot prove and a lack of faith showing you do not believe God is in control of His Word. Pauls writings are consistent with all the other writings within the old and new testament scriptures. God's gospel of Grace is JESUS, the promised Messiah and the Saviour of the world, the living Word of God and God's only begotten son who was not willing that anyone of us should perish but came into our world to save us from our sins and reconcile us back to God by paying the penalty for our sins with HIs own life. I do not follow the mother church and never have. I believe and follow the living Word of God through His Spirit as it is written His Words are Spirit and they are life and we are to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

Redemptionsong · Mar 21, 2020

3rdAngel said:
The reason I believe you are in error here dear brother is that you look at these scriptures and interpret love and law as being separated from each other leading you to an interpretation of the scriptures that they are different laws and have nothing to do with each other. While it is true that one can seek there salvation outside of love through the letter of the law which is not biblical, the other extreme that is also not biblical is thinking one can love by not being obedient to God's Law. What we are sharing here is a change of heart to love which is God's new covenant promise through the Spirit that God's law is established in the life of those who are born again and circumcised in heart to love *HEBREWS 8:10; ROMANS 2:27-28. This was pointed out to you earlier by showing from the writings of JESUS, PAUL, JAMES and JOHN that love is the motive from the inside out *MATTHEW 5 that fulfills and establishes God's LAW (10 Commandments) in the life of the believer in God's Word ROMANS 8:4; ROMANS 13:8-10. Which is God's work of the new covenant promise in *HEBREWS 8:10-12 from JEREMIAH 31:31-36. Let's look at the scriptures in detail that show why I believe your understanding is in error starting with God's new covenant promise and work through the writings of JESUS and the Apostles as the good news of the Gospel of JESUS Christ is salvation from sin and a new heart to love and it is love that establishes and fulfills God's LAW through the Spirit as we believe and follow God's Word *GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 3:31

WHAT IS GOD'S NEW COVENANT PROMISE TO MANKIND?

HEBREWS 8:10 [10], FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAID THE LORD; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: AND I WILL BE TO THEM A GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE TO ME A PEOPLE

Love is expressed and fulfilled in obedience to God's Law as shown by a new heard to love. This is expressed here in the words of JESUS here...

DOES JESUS SEPARATE LOVE AND LAW?

MATTHEW 22:36-40 [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

JESUS is saying you cannot separate love and law because on these two great commandments of love to God and love to man hang all the law and the prophets
Now notice in the book of ROMANS PAUL is expressing this exact same views as JESUS that we cannot separate love and law and that on the commandments of love hang all the law and the prophets here...

DOES PAUL SEPARATE LOVE AND LAW?

ROMANS 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man anything, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], FOR THIS, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

Paul shows this elsewhere when talking about faith here...

ROMANS 3:31, Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

This is what it means to walk in God's Spirt as shown here...

ROMANS 8:4 4, THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT

GALATIANS 5:16 WALK IN THE SPIRIT AND YOU SHALL NOT FULFILL THE LUSTS OF THE FLESH

DOES JAMES SEPARATE LOVE AND LAW?

JAMES shows the same thoughts as JESUS and PAUL here...

JAMES 2:8-11 [8], IF YOU FULFILL THE ROYAL LAW ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURE, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF, YOU DO WELL: [9], But IF YOU HAVE RESPECT TO PERSONS, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS. [10], For WHOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW, AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL. [11], For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, SAID ALSO, DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU COMMIT NO ADULTERY, YET IF YOU KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW. [12], So speak you, and so do, as they that shall be JUDGED BY THE LAW OF LIBERTY.

You cannot separate LOVE and LAW my dear friend as it is LOVE alone which is God's new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12 that circumcises the heart through the Spirit to establish God's LAW *ROMANS 3:31 in the life of the believer who is born again *1 JOHN 3:6-9 and is how love is expressed to God and our fellow man *MATTHEW 22:36-40.

Can you see why I believe your claims of trying to separate law and love is not biblical dear brother? According to the scriptures shared with you above God's love is expressed, established and fulfilled through God's Law not outside of it. For example as Paul says in ROMANS 13:8-10 if we love our fellow neighbore we will not lie, not steal not commit adultery, not murder them, etc just the same as if we love God we will have no other Gods, no idols, not use God's name in vain and remember to keep God's Sabbath as a holy day of rest in honor of God as the creator of heaven and earth. We need a new heart of love to be born again to follow God and this is the good news of the Gospel of JESUS Christ revealed in God's only begotten son to those who believe and follow God's Word *JOHN 3:16-21; HEBREWS 8:10; 1 JOHN 3:6-9. Those who practice sin (breaking God's 10 commandments) and those who do not practice sin is the difference between the children of god and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:9-10; 1 JOHN 2:3-4.

According to the scriptures I believe no one accepts Christs commandment to love while knowingly continuing to practice breaking any one of God's 10 commandments because JESUS says as well as JAMES and PAUL. On these two great commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40. If we break anyone of God's 10 Commandments in fact it is evidence we do not love God and is why JESUS says "IF you love me keep my commandments *JOHN 14:15.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.

The whole point about walking by God's Spirit is that you don't break any of God's moral laws. So, I believe that those who are born again and live by love keep all of God's moral laws. As you know, the Ten Commandments were summarized in just two, both of which are commandments to love. The Ten Commandments are summarized in two moral laws. If you keep these two, you keep the morality behind them all.

But even better than our ability to love God and our neighbour was Jesus Christ's ability to love God and his neighbour. It was Christ who fulfilled the law in love, and who distributes to us the righteousness of His Spirit. His Spirit leads us to fulfil the moral law perfectly, so long as we follow the Spirit faithfully, doing the works of faith that are required.

What you are calling on people to do, with reference to the Fourth Commandment, is not the morality of the law, but the ordinance, the religious rite. What difference do you think it makes whether a person chooses to cease work on a Tuesday, as opposed to a Friday evening? Or, if they choose to cease work for three days instead of one? Or, they choose to work seven days to help save coronavirus patients?

Scripture tells us that the sabbath day was made for man, for man's benefit. It should not become a burden or an obligation.

According to Hebrews 3 and 4, it is those that believe, or have faith, that enter into God's rest.

'To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.' [Hebrews 4:7]

'To day' is not the weekly sabbath but the rest we find in Christ. 'To day' is the day that we cease from our own works.

'For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.' [Hebrews 4:10]

Our rest in Christ is the spiritual element of the Fourth Commandment. The religious rite, the ordinance, the letter of the law, is the obligatory weekly sabbath, the commandment to cease work on pain of death!

2ndpillar · Mar 21, 2020

3rdAngel said:
Why you would think God is not in control of His Word is beyond me. To me it only shows a lack of faith. Paul is not a false prophet. Once again empty claims you cannot prove and a lack of faith showing you do not believe God is in control of His Word. Pauls writings are consistent with all the other writings within the old and new testament scriptures. God's gospel of Grace is JESUS, the promised Messiah and the Saviour of the world, the living Word of God and God's only begotten son who was not willing that anyone of us should perish but came into our world to save us from our sins and reconcile us back to God by paying the penalty for our sins with HIs own life. I do not follow the mother church and never have. I believe and follow the living Word of God through His Spirit as it is written His Words are Spirit and they are life and we are to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

Again, you deflect. Your NT canon came from the Roman church in the form of the pagan festival of Easter/Astarte letter in the year 367 AD by way of Athanasius. And again, I think it was you or your friend Redemptionsong who made reference to the writings of some unknown writer in 2 Thessalonians 2 for which it reads "God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false, in order that they be judged". As for the penalty for "sin"/iniquity, it is death, and "everyone will die for their own iniquity" (Jeremiah 31:30). Now that was actually a quote from Scriptures, the Word of God. I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but in spite of what Paul may have taught his now dead followers, everyone will die for their own iniquity/sin, including you and Paul. As for woman followers of Paul, yes they will not escape corruption of the flesh, despite what Paul and their Avon representative might have told them. As for "His Words" being "Spirit", I am afraid not. The "Word" came by way of the Spirit of Revelation, and can only be understood under that same Spirit. Your friend Redemptionsong seems to know the "Word" as well as you, but apparently, your apparent understanding seem to both fall short. For the "rock" the church is actually built on, it is not Peter, nor that "Christ is the son of the living God", but that the Spirit of Revelation revealed to Peter who Christ was (Matthew 16:16:18). You have both built your house on a foundation of sand. The "Word of God", is that which your NT calls "obsolete" and "ready to disappear".

3rdAngel · Mar 21, 2020

2ndpillar said:
Again, you deflect. Your NT canon came from the Roman church in the form of the pagan festival of Easter/Astarte letter in the year 367 AD by way of Athanasius. And again, I think it was you or your friend Redemptionsong who made reference to the writings of some unknown writer in 2 Thessalonians 2 for which it reads "God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false, in order that they be judged". As for the penalty for "sin"/iniquity, it is death, and "everyone will die for their own iniquity" (Jeremiah 31:30). Now that was actually a quote from Scriptures, the Word of God. I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but in spite of what Paul may have taught his now dead followers, everyone will die for their own iniquity/sin, including you and Paul. As for woman followers of Paul, yes they will not escape corruption of the flesh, despite what Paul and their Avon representative might have told them. As for "His Words" being "Spirit", I am afraid not. The "Word" came by way of the Spirit of Revelation, and can only be understood under that same Spirit. Your friend Redemptionsong seems to know the "Word" as well as you, but apparently, your apparent understanding seem to both fall short. For the "rock" the church is actually built on, it is not Peter, nor that "Christ is the son of the living God", but that the Spirit of Revelation revealed to Peter who Christ was (Matthew 16:16:18). You have both built your house on a foundation of sand. The "Word of God", is that which your NT calls "obsolete" and "ready to disappear".

Nonsense, the new testament came from those early Christians written in Koine Greek manuscripts before Constantine and before His official sanctioning and institution of the Roman Catholic church as the states religion the late 3rd centuray. Now let's be honest my friend, if the new testament books were written before Constantine was born within the first century BC in the life time of the Apostles how can the NT come in the form of the pagan festival of Easter/Astarte letter in the year 367 AD by way of Athanasius? It was not me but 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 is in reference to those who reject the truth of God's Word. According to the scriptures the only reason mankind receive the judgments of God is because of practicing known sin *HEBREWS 10:26-39. What sin are you claiming those people are doing by believing and following God's Word? Also, your yet to show or prove that Paul's writings are not biblical or the truth. I believe you are on error dear friend with your thinking as from my understanding everything written in the new testament has it's origins in the old. Together they are the two great witnesses that make up the Word of God. Sorry my friend but I believe it is you who is building your house on sifting sand by denying God's Word and believing that God is not in control of what makes up His Word.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed, ignoring it does not make it disappear.

3rdAngel · Mar 21, 2020

Redemptionsong said:
The whole point about walking by God's Spirit is that you don't break any of God's moral laws.

If you read my posts and the scriptures shared with you then you would know I have never shared this with you.

Redemptionsong said:
So, I believe that those who are born again and live by love keep all of God's moral laws. As you know, the Ten Commandments were summarized in just two, both of which are commandments to love. The Ten Commandments are summarized in two moral laws. If you keep these two, you keep the morality behind them all.

True but the evidence or fruit is in not breaking any one of God's 10 commandments. If your breaking one the scriptures teach we are guilty of breaking all of them *JAMES 2:8-12. According to the scriptures God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments and is our duty of Love to God *EXODUS 20:8-11; MATTHEW 22:36-40; ROMANS 13:8-10.

Redemptionsong said:
But even better than our ability to love God and our neighbour was Jesus Christ's ability to love God and his neighbour. It was Christ who fulfilled the law in love, and who distributes to us the righteousness of His Spirit. His Spirit leads us to fulfil the moral law perfectly, so long as we follow the Spirit faithfully, doing the works of faith that are required.

Without God's Spirit we can do nothing but sin. If we walk in God' spirit the righteousness of God's law is fulfilled in us and we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh *JOHN 15:5; 1 JOHN 3:6; ROMANS 8:4; GALATIANS 5:16

Redemptionsong said:
What you are calling on people to do, with reference to the Fourth Commandment, is not the morality of the law, but the ordinance, the religious rite. What difference do you think it makes whether a person chooses to cease work on a Tuesday, as opposed to a Friday evening? Or, if they choose to cease work for three days instead of one? Or, they choose to work seven days to help save coronavirus patients?

Nonsense dear friend. All of God's 10 commandments are moral laws and our duty of love to God (first four) and our fellow man (second six). What you do not understand here is that God's 10 commandments are how love is expressed to both God and man. Love is the motive from the heart expressed in actions that lead us to God and establish His laws in our hearts. Where I believe you are confused dear friend is that you do not see that God's salvation is from sin (breaking his 10 commandments from a heart that does not love) is from the inside out *HEBREWS 8:10-12; MATTHEW 15:17-20; MATTHEW 5. Unless we are born again to love we will not enter into Gods Kingdom *JOHN 3:3-7; 1 JOHN 3:4-9; MATTHEW 22:36-40; ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12. Those who practice sin and those who do not is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1JOHN 3:9-10; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; MATTHEW 7:22-26; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14. There is nothing wrong with doing good on the Sabbath *MATTHEW 12:1-12 but God's 4th commandment being one of God's 10 commandments *EXODUS 20:8-11 is defined in the scriptures as the "seventh day" of the week *EXODUS 20:10 that God set apart from all the other days of the week for all mankind, "blessed" the "seventh day" making it a "holy day" where no work is to be done *GENESIS 2:1-3; EXODUS 20:8-11; MARK 2:27-28 as a memorial of creation and God as the creator of Heaven and earth.

Redemptionsong said:
Scripture tells us that the sabbath day was made for man, for man's benefit. It should not become a burden or an obligation.

Indeed, it is a delight to those who love God *ISAIAH 58:13-14; PSALMS 40:8; PSALMS 119:35

Redemptionsong said:
According to Hebrews 3 and 4, it is those that believe, or have faith, that enter into God's rest. 'To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.' [Hebrews 4:7]

Absolutely for without faith it is impossible to please him *HEBREWS 11:6

Redemptionsong said:
'To day' is not the weekly sabbath but the rest we find in Christ. 'To day' is the day that we cease from our own works. 'For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.' [Hebrews 4:10] Our rest in Christ is the spiritual element of the Fourth Commandment. The religious rite, the ordinance, the letter of the law, is the obligatory weekly sabbath, the commandment to cease work on pain of death!

Where I believe you are confused here is that your ingoring the scripture context of HEBREWS 4:1-9. The reason God's people in the wilderness did not enter into God's rest was because of unbelief in God's Word and sin (breaking God's commandments) as shown in HEBREWS 3:8-19. The gospel was preach to them as well as us but they did not believe it. *HEBREWS 4:2. The context of "REST" in HEBREWS 4:1-5 is God's "REST" and how we enter into God's "REST" (the "seventh day" weekly Sabbath).

HEBREWS 4:1-11
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into HIS REST, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into MY REST: ALTHOUGH THE WORKS WERE FINISHED FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.
[4], FOR HE SPOKE IN A CERTAIN PLACE (GENSIS 2:1-3) OF THE SEVENTH DAY ON THIS WISE, AND GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS.
[5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into MY REST.

NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD enter into that rest which God's WORD defines as the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH which is GOD'S REST!

Let's continue...

6], Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[7], Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
[8], For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9], SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

NOTE: Hebrews 4, verse 9: “There remains therefore a SABBATH rest to the people of God.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

[10], For he that is entered into HIS REST (v9 God's SABBATH REST), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[11], LET US LABOR THEREFORE TO ENTER INTO THAT REST (God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST), lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief (HEBREWS 3).

.............

CONCLUSION: HEBREWS 4 is talking about the Gospel rest of BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD; v29 Learn of me; v30 my burden (doing) is light. This agrees with Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. HEBREWS 4:1-11 is in reference to GOD'S REST which God's WORD defines is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH which is the CONTEXT shown in HEBREWS 4:1-5. HEBREWS 4 therefore with context added is saying that no one enter God's Sabbath rest if they do not BELIEVE AND FOLLOW God's WORD.

Hope this helps.

2ndpillar · Mar 21, 2020

3rdAngel said:
Nonsense, the new testament came from those early Christians written in Koine Greek manuscripts before Constantine and before His official sanctioning and institution of the Roman Catholic church as the states religion the late 3rd centuray. Now let's be honest my friend, if the new testament books were written before Constantine was born within the first century BC in the life time of the Apostles how can the NT come in the form of the pagan festival of Easter/Astarte letter in the year 367 AD by way of Athanasius? It was not me but 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 is in reference to those who reject the truth of God's Word. According to the scriptures the only reason mankind receive the judgments of God is because of practicing known sin *HEBREWS 10:26-39. What sin are you claiming those people are doing by believing and following God's Word? Also, your yet to show or prove that Paul's writings are not biblical or the truth. I believe you are on error dear friend with your thinking as from my understanding everything written in the new testament has it's origins in the old. Together they are the two great witnesses that make up the Word of God. Sorry my friend but I believe it is you who is building your house on sifting sand by denying God's Word and believing that God is not in control of what makes up His Word.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed, ignoring it does not make it disappear.

Manuscripts, often written by unknown writers following Paul's initiation of his own Christian church were not culled and combined into the existing canon until 367 AD. That Paul and his associates wrote their own dogmas before 367 AD is not being argued. That they represent a false gospel of grace, versus the kingdom of God preached by Yeshua is the point being presented. That Paul, the tare seed (Mt 13:13:27-30), was left growing, was under the commandment of Yeshua. Also being argued is that you take "words" (most often tare seed), you claim as the Word of God, and expect to do more than your partner Redemptionsong. If you had actual faith in the actual Word of God, you could have the potential of throwing the mountain of Babylon into the sea, and not going around promoting large portions of her dogma. As for your two pillars (your two great witnesses/lambstands/olive trees (Rev 11:3-4)) such as the two pillars of Solomon's Temple, represented by Boaz and Jachin, such as the "two anointed ones, who are standing by the Lord of the whole earth"(Zechariah 4:14), they are not the OT and the NT. Elijah and Enoch were both taken to taken to heaven to stand before the Lord of the Earth. The false prophet has another destination (Revelation 20:10).

As for Paul being a false prophet, one false prophecies dooms his reign. When he said "we will not all sleep", he died and all his listeners died. As you being a present day listener, you will also die, even if you come through the great tribulation. The only one's who will be raised from the dead will be those who have died and did not have the mark of the beast (Rev 20:4). Unless thought of as "accursed" you shall die after reaching 100 years old. (Isaiah 65:20). "every one dies for their own iniquity" (Jeremiah 31:30)

1 Corinthians 15:51-52. Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

3rdAngel · Mar 21, 2020

2ndpillar said:
Manuscripts, often written by unknown writers following Paul's initiation of his own Christian church were not culled and combined into the existing canon until 367 AD. That Paul and his associates wrote their own dogmas before 367 AD is not being argued.

I believe all I am hearing from you are a lot of empty words you cannot prove in regards to the writings of Paul the apostle. Paul was very much a part of the early church was was Peter, James and John.

2ndpillar said:
That they represent a false gospel of grace, versus the kingdom of God preached by Yeshua is the point being presented.

I believe where you are mistaken my dear friend is in your interpretation of the Gospel to me it is every Word of God which is good news not only some sections of the scriptures. All scripture is given by inspiration of God and we are to live by every word of it.

2ndpillar said:
That Paul, the tare seed (Mt 13:13:27-30), was left growing, was under the commandment of Yeshua.

I believe you are mistaken and the only tares that are being sown are the ones your posting in my view.

2ndpillar said:
Also being argued is that you take "words" (most often tare seed), you claim as the Word of God, and expect to do more than your partner Redemptionsong. If you had actual faith in the actual Word of God, you could have the potential of throwing the mountain of Babylon into the sea, and not going around promoting large portions of her dogma. As for your two pillars (your two great witnesses/lambstands/olive trees (Rev 11:3-4)) such as the two pillars of Solomon's Temple, represented by Boaz and Jachin, such as the "two anointed ones, who are standing by the Lord of the whole earth"(Zechariah 4:14), they are not the OT and the NT. Elijah and Enoch were both taken to taken to heaven to stand before the Lord of the Earth. The false prophet has another destination (Revelation 20:10).

I am sorry dear friend but I do not believe your interpretation of the scriptures which I do not believe are biblical or make sense.

2ndpillar said:
As for Paul being a false prophet, one false prophecies dooms his reign. When he said "we will not all sleep", he died and all his listeners died. As you being a present day listener, you will also die, even if you come through the great tribulation. The only one's who will be raised from the dead will be those who have died and did not have the mark of the beast (Rev 20:4). Unless thought of as "accursed" you shall die after reaching 100 years old. (Isaiah 65:20). "every one dies for their own iniquity" (Jeremiah 31:30) 1 Corinthians 15:51-52. Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

I am sorry my dear friend. I do not interpret these scritpures as you are trying to interpret them. I read them as "we christians" who are alive when JESUS returns. Thanks for sharing your thoughts though but we will have to agree to disagree.

The Lord's Day, is it really Sunday?

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