Understanding Sects of Saivism

Hello fellow Hindu DIR,

As a Saivite Hindu my understanding of the different schools of thought, as well as philosophy of bheda-abheda and non-duality is rather poor. I am caucasian and I did not grow up in a Hindu family, thus my knowledge is very limited, but nonetheless I try to learn more and more. I do have a home shrine with Shiva, Parvati, Ganesh, etc as I pray everyday; however, I also do abhishekam to lingam everyday. I know that, I, as an individual must ultimately decide what I believe to be true or not true but I would love some advice, insight, and further discussion on this topic as I didn't find any in this section of the forums.

Per Saiva Siddhanta the jiva and Shiva are separate entities in that they are described as the same, but separate. I've seen various analogies and still my understanding is poor. Do Saivite who believe in this school of thought meditate on Shiva to obtain moksha. Do they perform rudrabhiskem as do the Virasaivite? I have read that Vira Saivism believe that Shiva and the self are one but is this true or am misunderstanding the information being presented to me?

I believe that my background has brung up various different thoughts on Saivite Hinduism that may be seen as odd but I believe that Shiva is the Lord Supreme and he and I are one, but the difference lies in that I am lost in a worldly existence clouded by maya and such. I meditate to obtain realization of Lord Shiva but don't understand where my thoughts align with. I'm sorry if this was a long post but as my journey in life continues I wish to obtain a guru but think that many would be confused with who I am and what beliefs I hold.

Thank you for your time and I apologize if I have confused anyone, for I am also confused.

EDIT: I don't know if this is allowed but if anyone here knows other Hindus in the Los Angeles area that I could get some face-to-face help with I would love to chat.

TravisJC said:

DIT: I don't know if this is allowed but if anyone here knows other Hindus in the Los Angeles area that I could get some face-to-face help with I would love to chat.

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One piece of advice - go here and see if there is a Saivite temple close by - that you may feel comfortable going to once the virus period is in the rear view mirror - you can choose to go at the time of the congregation or in between (when the priest(s) may be free(er) and more available for a one-to-one conversation) - and see if there is someone you can strike up a conversation with. In all my experience - people are always willing to give some time to someone that wants to know more and learn more

All the best in your quest ......

ManSinha said:

the virus period is in the rear view mirror

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Agreed, trying to stay safe while this whole COVID19 thing is going on. However, thank you for the link, will definitely try to seek out a priest. I think it's just the nerves that scare me away from seeking help.

TravisJC said:

Agreed, trying to stay safe while this whole COVID19 thing is going on. However, thank you for the link, will definitely try to seek out a priest. I think it's just the nerves that scare me away from seeking help.

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Aum Sivaya ... That temple link that ManSinha provided (with all good intentions) isn't all that complete or accurate. Personally, I've found the 'search nearby' on Google maps more up to date. I don't know of any true Saivite temples in LA. The closest hing to one there would be the Concord Murugan temple in the East bay area, but that's a substantial distance from you.

Personally, I'm not the philosophical type, as in my sampradaya it's more about experience, with that said experience eventually providing the answers about which you seek, from within. Books provide you with other's version of their conclusions from their experience, which may or may not be of any great substance.

That all said, I'm a monistic Saiva Siddhantin, but not because I personally know it, but because I believe I know some souls who do know it ... if that makes any sense at all.

One of the distinctions you will encounter is a subtle one ... and that is that there is a difference between a Smarta sampradaya priest who leans towards Saivism, or has Siva as his ishta, versus an all out Saivite. It's often hard to tell the difference at first, until you have close observation. A Saivite priest will talk Siva Siva Siva 99% of the time, and approach other styles with a detached reverence for the brotherhood known as Hinduism. The Smarta will be comfortable with both.

My philosophical understanding is also poor, after over 40 years of adopting this faith. But that's because I'm a bhaktar first, as scholar second (or third or fourth). I guess I figure the understanding will come in due course, when I'm ready. The goal is Self-Realisation, nirvikalpa samadhi, not just being able to discuss the philosophical intricacies until one is blue in the face.

Aum ... best wishes.

Vinayaka said:

not just being able to discuss the philosophical intricacies until one is blue in the face.

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A little further south and one would qualify for the title of "Neelkanth"

ManSinha said:

A little further south and one would qualify for the title of "Neelkanth"

View attachment 37886

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Not odd at all that you never see the Gods pictured as sitting around discussing philosophy. Those blue tinges came from something else, methinks.

Vinayaka said:

with that said experience eventually providing the answers about which you seek, from within.

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I agree, although I am interested in learning more about this topic at the end of the day I meditate on it. Hopefully will time things will become more clear.

Vinayaka said:

not just being able to discuss the philosophical intricacies until one is blue in the face.

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Vinayaka said:

Those blue tinges came from something else, methinks.

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The explanation - well the stated explanation - for Neelkanth comes from the Amrit Manthan saga

From Wikipedia - although as a child - I had heard / read the story from other sources as well

"The Samudra Manthana process released a number of things from the Ocean of Milk. One of them was the lethal poison known as Halahala. However, in some versions of the story, the poison escaped from the mouth of the serpent king as the demons and gods churned. This terrified the gods and demons because the poison was so powerful that it could destroy all of creation. The Devas then approached Shiva for protection. Shiva consumed the poison to protect the three worlds and in the process burnt his throat.

In some versions as Shiva drank the poison, he was suffering intense pain, but could not die, and this could not be seen by Parvati, his consort. She immediately places a hand on his throat, stopping the poison to flow any further, and by her Maya stopped it forever.

As a result, his throat turned blue and he was henceforth called Neelakantha (the blue-throated one; "neela" = "blue", "kantha" = "throat" in Sanskrit)."

Oh - and I read some of these stories in my childhood - the serialized story appears on page 51 of the magazine every month

TravisJC said:

Hello fellow Hindu DIR,

As a Saivite Hindu my understanding of the different schools of thought, as well as philosophy of bheda-abheda and non-duality is rather poor. I am caucasian and I did not grow up in a Hindu family, thus my knowledge is very limited, but nonetheless I try to learn more and more. I do have a home shrine with Shiva, Parvati, Ganesh, etc as I pray everyday; however, I also do abhishekam to lingam everyday. I know that, I, as an individual must ultimately decide what I believe to be true or not true but I would love some advice, insight, and further discussion on this topic as I didn't find any in this section of the forums.

Per Saiva Siddhanta the jiva and Shiva are separate entities in that they are described as the same, but separate. I've seen various analogies and still my understanding is poor. Do Saivite who believe in this school of thought meditate on Shiva to obtain moksha. Do they perform rudrabhiskem as do the Virasaivite? I have read that Vira Saivism believe that Shiva and the self are one but is this true or am misunderstanding the information being presented to me?

I believe that my background has brought up various different thoughts on Saivite Hinduism that may be seen as odd but I believe that Shiva is the Lord Supreme and he and I are one, but the difference lies in that I am lost in a worldly existence clouded by maya and such. I meditate to obtain realization of Lord Shiva but don't understand where my thoughts align with. I'm sorry if this was a long post but as my journey in life continues I wish to obtain a guru but think that many would be confused with who I am and what beliefs I hold.

Thank you for your time and I apologize if I have confused anyone, for I am also confused.

EDIT: I don't know if this is allowed but if anyone here knows other Hindus in the Los Angeles area that I could get some face-to-face help with I would love to chat.

Click to expand...

Travis, your post is not long. There is no need to be confused. In Hinduism, we take all various views as correct (correct for that person) and respect them. People generally will take Shiva as a major God in Hinduism, many will have him as their chosen deity (Ishta), and many will consider him as the Supreme God, Brahman. For long Shiva was my chosen deity and the family deity (we Kashmiris are normally Shaivas). He is still very dear to me, always on friendly terms, though I have moved to advaita (as you know, non-duality) and atheism. So, it does not matter to me. I can term Shiva as Brahman or Krishna as Brahman or Rama as Brahman. It is all the same for me. And I am them and none else.

Those who believe in existence of a God as different from men will take Shiva as God. Those who believe in non-duality will believe in the sameness of Brahman and whatever exists in the universe, and seek to merge in their Ishta after their life-time. Hinduism leaves the choice to you, whatever suits your inclination. Vinayaka, as I understand, is half-way between the two, he believes in sameness, but to arrive at that sameness, his sampradaya (sect) believes that you have a lot to do. You have mentioned Veera Shaivas, there are Lingayats also who too are Shaivas. Then you have two strains of Shiava Siddhantas, one from Kashmir (Trika, Kaula) and the other from South (that is Vinayaka's Shaivism). Wikipedia says that Shaiva Siddhanta is restricted to South India, but I differ with that. Shiva worship is spread all over India.
Shaiva Siddhanta - Wikipedia
"The Shaiva Siddhanta goal of becoming an ontologically distinct Shiva (through Shiva's grace) was replaced by recognizing oneself as Shiva who, in Kashmir Shaivism's monism, is the entirety of the universe."
Kashmir Shaivism - Wikipedia

* Seems that I have not gone far from Kashmir Shaivism and Abhinavagupta.

It is not just worship that gives you Moksha (release), it is understanding (jnana, knowledge) which gives you release. So carry on. Yeah, go to the temples, sit and observe the people there, talk to them. Bring your questions to this forum. We would always be happy to answer them. Do not take any one person as your guru, because then you will be restricted only to his view-point. As my label says - 'Be your own guru'.

Aupmanyav said:

many will consider him as the Supreme God, Brahman

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See, this is where my belief falls. I believe that Shiva is Brahman and He is the supreme. To me, Shiva has created all that exists in the univserse.

Aupmanyav said:

Those who believe in non-duality will believe in the sameness of Brahman and whatever exists in the universe

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On the other hand, I believe with time my beliefs will make more sense for me to understand. As of now my personnel belief is that Shiva and are of the same being; however, I do not share in the capabilities. If this is the belief that I hold I still am confused on what specifically makes us different. Is it that he is all powerful, knowing, and pervading not clouded like the minds of humans?

Thank you in advance.

TravisJC said:

See, this is where my belief falls. I believe that Shiva is Brahman and He is the supreme. To me, Shiva has created all that exists in the universe.

On the other hand, I believe with time my beliefs will make more sense for me to understand. As of now my personnel belief is that Shiva and are of the same being; however, I do not share in the capabilities. If this is the belief that I hold I still am confused on what specifically makes us different. Is it that he is all powerful, knowing, and pervading not clouded like the minds of humans?

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No need for your belief to fall. It is a free world. Hinduism had this 'Free World' idea right from the beginning thousands of years ago. Each person has his own views. As they said 'Vipra Bahudha vadanti' (Nice people may believe differently). For you, Shiva is Brahman. For others it could be Vishnu, Rama, Krishna, Murugan, Mother Goddess Durga / Amba, anyone. How does it affect us. We continue with our own belief. If Shiva is Brahman, if he is all that exists in the universe, then he is Vishnu, Rama, Krishna, Durga too.

You are right. What makes us different from Brahman is that we are under the spell of 'maya', ignorance. When we understand clearly, we realize that we are it only (Ayamatma Brahma - This self is Brahman). We are what constitutes all things in the universe. We are none other than the energy that constitutes all things in the universe. Hinduism thus understood 'Quantum Mechanics' thousands of years ago. Science has come to it only now.

(Note: If other Hindus have different views, my 'namaskar', 'namaste' to them. They are right in their own way. I have no conflict with them. It is not my requirement that they must all agree with me)

Harihara (Shiva + Vishnu), Ardhanarishwara (Shiva + Shakti)

Travis.

Because of the proliferation of pseudoscholars,fraud teachers and fraudulent teachings in Hinduism, Kabir had emphasized the need for critical examination to distinguish between the truth and falsehood in hinduism.

I would suggest you go through this thread so as to acquaint yourself with the technique of critical examination in Hinduism.This will enable you to learn and understand correctly.

Kabir on the need for critical examination to weed out the false and fraudulent...

ajay0 said:

I would suggest you go through this thread so as to acquaint yourself with the technique of critical examination in Hinduism.This will enable you to learn and understand correctly.

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Will definitely give it a read, thank you!

You may also go through this article: Nath - Wikipedia.
Nath Sampradaya (Sect) is very influential in North India and Nepal.

The Chief of this sampradaya today is the Chief Minister of the largest state in India, Uttar Pradesh (Population 220 million, with cities like Lucknow, Agra, Mathura, Kanpur, Allahabad - now known as Prayag Raj where the rivers Yamuna and Ganges meet, and Varanasi - Kashi)
Yogi Adityanath at DuckDuckGo

This sect does not recognize any division by birth (castes) or religion.
I think all Shaiva sects do not recognize any division by birth (castes) or religion. Perhaps @Vinayaka will enlighten us about his sect.

TravisJC said:

Hello fellow Hindu DIR,

As a Saivite Hindu my understanding of the different schools of thought, as well as philosophy of bheda-abheda and non-duality is rather poor. I am caucasian and I did not grow up in a Hindu family, thus my knowledge is very limited, but nonetheless I try to learn more and more. I do have a home shrine with Shiva, Parvati, Ganesh, etc as I pray everyday; however, I also do abhishekam to lingam everyday. I know that, I, as an individual must ultimately decide what I believe to be true or not true but I would love some advice, insight, and further discussion on this topic as I didn't find any in this section of the forums.

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The Prajapita Brahmakumaris is also a monotheistic Shaivite sect which worships God Shiva as an incorporeal point of light.

Jyotirlingam is also an another name for the Shivalingam, with 'Jyoti' meaning light. The Yajur Veda, Shiva Puranas, Swami Vivekananda,the ancient Kashi Vishwanath temple have also referred to the Shivalingam as representing God as a pillar of light.


I had created a thread discussing the correlation between God and light in various world religions....

Interesting correlation between God and light in major world religions...


The Prajapita Brahmakumaris is the world's only spiritual organization led, administered and taught by women. They have teaching centers in almost every country in the world where they teach seven day courses on religious philosophy and meditation free of cost.

The Brahma Kumaris in the USA

A major theme of the Brahmakumaris is the empowerment of women all over the world as religious leaders and teachers. They have won seven U.N. peace awards for their efforts in promoting global peace and harmony.

Association with UN - Brahma Kumaris News and Events

I would liké to post New message how IS it possible IAM new

Welcome to the forum, AL2020. Since you are a new member, I think you can post a new topic in the Seeker's Circle (Interfaith Forum). After 10 posts, you will be able to post topics in other forums too where you are eligible.
If I am not correct, other members can correct my post.

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I have quoted like IS it ok ?

AL2020 said:

DIR Forum Access:

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• New Religious Movements DIR
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I have quoted like IS it ok ?

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Hi AL2020, and welcome to the forum.

DIRs are for those that identify with a specific religion, and those who do not identify with that specific religion may only post respectful questions in DIRs. In this case, only those that identify as Hindu may participate in the Hinduism DIR beyond asking respectful questions.

If you wish to ask a religious group questions and engage in subsequent discussion, it is recommended that you post such threads in Religions Q&A and add "(RELEVANT RELIGION) ONLY" to the thread title.

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