Greta

shmogie said:

I am saying that sometimes science confidently predicts an outcome, and that predicted outcome never occurs.

Evidence is always subject to interpretation, the interpretation of charts and graphs and studies that lead to a failed prediction were either poorly interpreted, or were based in a wrong understanding of approaching what appeared to be the potential problem in the first place.

If you are measuring rocks when history shows you should have been measuring water, then the data from the rocks means nothing, and never did.

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shmogie said:

But, of course, it is a political issue. It is a political issue because those most committed to reversing mans alleged interference in the climate must, through politics, harness the power of the state, to enact draconian measure they believe are required.

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I have seen scientific prophecies utterly fail in the past. Always science spoke with authority on the issue, it produced charts and graphs, and studies, but nevertheless the prophecies were wrong. Is this another prophecy that is wrong?

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There are lots of reports and studies and charts and graphs.............................................

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Messianic Israelite said:

I was at work listening to the radio when I heard about Greta Thunberg's climate strike in Bristol which sparked a discussion among my colleagues. I however, was reminded a few weeks prior from a message I heard from my faith that included a quote from Dennis Prager. I figure that some people are sitting on the face with this whole issue of climate change but I feel Prager puts it exactly right and I'd like to quote what he said.

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He says:
"The difference between Right and Left addressed in this column concerns a fundamentally different method that each utilizes in order to improve society. Conservatives believe that the way to a better world is almost always through moral improvement of the individual — by each person doing battle with his own moral defects. The Left, on the other hand, believes that the way to a better world is almost always through doing battle with society’s moral defects (real and/or as perceived by the Left). Thus, in America, the Left defines the good person as the one who fights the sexism, racism, intolerance, xenophobia, homophobia, Islamophobia and other evils that the Left believes permeate American society.

That is one reason those on the left are more preoccupied with politics than those on the right. A simple example should make this point clear. Whenever the term “activist” or “social activist” or “organizer” is used, one infers that the term refers to someone on the Left.

One consequence of this difference is that conservatives believe that good is achieved far more gradually than liberals do. The process of making a better world is largely a one-by-one-by-one effort. And it must be redone in every single generation. The noblest generation ever born still has to teach its children how to battle their natures. If it doesn’t, even the best society will begin to rapidly devolve, which is exactly what conservatives believe has been happening to America since the end of World War II.

The Left does not focus on individual character development. Rather, it has always and everywhere focused on social revolution. The most revealing statement of then-presidential candidate Barack Obama, the most committed leftist ever elected president of the United States, was made just days before the 2008 election: “We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America,” he told a large rapturous audience....But the age-old wisdom embraced by conservatives remains as true as ever: Before you fix society, you must first fix yourself."

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I agree with this. I feel that these issues that people like Greta are concerned about are indeed issues that we should be concerned with, however, the Bible way is the correct way. People should be concerned about *moral improvement* and *character development*. Character education has all but disappeared from schools and this is creating a void or chasm in society which is in effect, being filled with the distraction of social issues like climate change. Children are not being taught to focus on their flaws but rather social issues. This is why I view people like Greta and her followers with skepticism. They don't seem to see the real problem of fixing ones own character. How many of these followers, who mainly comprise of children, are disobedient to their parents? How many of them pressured their parents to take them out of school during this time so they could attend that event in Bristol? We cannot make society better without making our character better first. And the root of society's problem is sin and sinful thoughts. Until we admit this, we cannot hope to rectify the real issues that are 'destroying the earth' (Revelation 11:18). Read that verse. Yahweh cares about the earth but He knows that sin is the problem, not driving one's car to work.

Feel free to discuss.

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oldbadger said:

The World's climate doesn't care about your politics. You'll either clean up your act or not.


Let's have a look at scientific prophesies that failed, and ones that were smack on.
Got any decent examples?


What, like how aeroplanes could actually fly? Like how jet engines work? Like how everything works and is fashioned all around you?

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shmogie said:

In the early seventies, science told us the oil supply was exhausted. We were told that by the 90's there would not be any oil left to be had, anywhere.

In America, tiny cars came into fashion, like the Japanese were building.

No longer was a car measured by horsepower, or handling, MPG was the only criteria.

50 years later, the world is awash in oil.

Americans are once again enjoying high performance cars, with huge V-8's.

The rolling tin cans of the 70's, designed to stave off the inevitable last barrel of oil, are a nightmare of the past.

Science missed the call on available oil on a huge scale.

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shmogie said:

I am saying that sometimes science confidently predicts an outcome, and that predicted outcome never occurs.

Evidence is always subject to interpretation, the interpretation of charts and graphs and studies that lead to a failed prediction were either poorly interpreted, or were based in a wrong understanding of approaching what appeared to be the potential problem in the first place.

If you are measuring rocks when history shows you should have been measuring water, then the data from the rocks means nothing, and never did.

Click to expand...

Messianic Israelite said:

I was at work listening to the radio when I heard about Greta Thunberg's climate strike in Bristol which sparked a discussion among my colleagues. I however, was reminded a few weeks prior from a message I heard from my faith that included a quote from Dennis Prager. I figure that some people are sitting on the face with this whole issue of climate change but I feel Prager puts it exactly right and I'd like to quote what he said.

-------------------------------------------------------​

He says:
"The difference between Right and Left addressed in this column concerns a fundamentally different method that each utilizes in order to improve society. Conservatives believe that the way to a better world is almost always through moral improvement of the individual — by each person doing battle with his own moral defects. The Left, on the other hand, believes that the way to a better world is almost always through doing battle with society’s moral defects (real and/or as perceived by the Left). Thus, in America, the Left defines the good person as the one who fights the sexism, racism, intolerance, xenophobia, homophobia, Islamophobia and other evils that the Left believes permeate American society.

That is one reason those on the left are more preoccupied with politics than those on the right. A simple example should make this point clear. Whenever the term “activist” or “social activist” or “organizer” is used, one infers that the term refers to someone on the Left.

One consequence of this difference is that conservatives believe that good is achieved far more gradually than liberals do. The process of making a better world is largely a one-by-one-by-one effort. And it must be redone in every single generation. The noblest generation ever born still has to teach its children how to battle their natures. If it doesn’t, even the best society will begin to rapidly devolve, which is exactly what conservatives believe has been happening to America since the end of World War II.

The Left does not focus on individual character development. Rather, it has always and everywhere focused on social revolution. The most revealing statement of then-presidential candidate Barack Obama, the most committed leftist ever elected president of the United States, was made just days before the 2008 election: “We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America,” he told a large rapturous audience....But the age-old wisdom embraced by conservatives remains as true as ever: Before you fix society, you must first fix yourself."

-------------------------------------------------------​

I agree with this. I feel that these issues that people like Greta are concerned about are indeed issues that we should be concerned with, however, the Bible way is the correct way. People should be concerned about *moral improvement* and *character development*. Character education has all but disappeared from schools and this is creating a void or chasm in society which is in effect, being filled with the distraction of social issues like climate change. Children are not being taught to focus on their flaws but rather social issues. This is why I view people like Greta and her followers with skepticism. They don't seem to see the real problem of fixing ones own character. How many of these followers, who mainly comprise of children, are disobedient to their parents? How many of them pressured their parents to take them out of school during this time so they could attend that event in Bristol? We cannot make society better without making our character better first. And the root of society's problem is sin and sinful thoughts. Until we admit this, we cannot hope to rectify the real issues that are 'destroying the earth' (Revelation 11:18). Read that verse. Yahweh cares about the earth but He knows that sin is the problem, not driving one's car to work.

In terms of global warming, evidence suggests the climate is changing but they are some things which are being ignored. What about the increase in earthquakes? Is that caused by the pollution our cars, planes and ships are expelling in to the air? **mod edit**

Feel free to discuss.

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shmogie said:

Science missed the call on available oil on a huge scale.

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Faithofchristian said:

The first mentioning of climate change came about in America was by Democrats back in 1971. As a scare tactic to get more votes by the younger generation..
But it didn't work out for the Democrats.

Even back then Democrats were saying the earth would end in 15 to 20 years but here we are 2020 and the earth is still here and doing just fine.
Now comes the democrats again saying the earth will end in 20 years.
It seems the only time people hear about Climate Change is every 4 years during the Presidential elections and no other time.

Back a during last summer Democrats were all keyed up about climate change.
But here we are in the middle of March and not one word from Democrats.
Now if climate change was that important. Would it not be logical to keep speaking about climate change or hearing about climate change.
Congress woman AOC back last summer came out with the most reasonable answer about climate change.
She said cow farts has the most effect on climate change.Lol
She also said cars and jet planes should be taken away..but yet she stills flying by jet planes.Lol
But now since AOC was confronted by her still flying on jet planes and driving a car..
she not saying anything any more about climate change..
What's up with all that What's that all about?

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shmogie said:

Citation please, to verify claim.

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Messianic Israelite said:

I was at work listening to the radio when I heard about Greta Thunberg's climate strike in Bristol which sparked a discussion among my colleagues. I however, was reminded a few weeks prior from a message I heard from my faith that included a quote from Dennis Prager. I figure that some people are sitting on the face with this whole issue of climate change but I feel Prager puts it exactly right and I'd like to quote what he said.

-------------------------------------------------------​

He says:
"The difference between Right and Left addressed in this column concerns a fundamentally different method that each utilizes in order to improve society. Conservatives believe that the way to a better world is almost always through moral improvement of the individual — by each person doing battle with his own moral defects. The Left, on the other hand, believes that the way to a better world is almost always through doing battle with society’s moral defects (real and/or as perceived by the Left). Thus, in America, the Left defines the good person as the one who fights the sexism, racism, intolerance, xenophobia, homophobia, Islamophobia and other evils that the Left believes permeate American society.

That is one reason those on the left are more preoccupied with politics than those on the right. A simple example should make this point clear. Whenever the term “activist” or “social activist” or “organizer” is used, one infers that the term refers to someone on the Left.

One consequence of this difference is that conservatives believe that good is achieved far more gradually than liberals do. The process of making a better world is largely a one-by-one-by-one effort. And it must be redone in every single generation. The noblest generation ever born still has to teach its children how to battle their natures. If it doesn’t, even the best society will begin to rapidly devolve, which is exactly what conservatives believe has been happening to America since the end of World War II.

The Left does not focus on individual character development. Rather, it has always and everywhere focused on social revolution. The most revealing statement of then-presidential candidate Barack Obama, the most committed leftist ever elected president of the United States, was made just days before the 2008 election: “We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America,” he told a large rapturous audience....But the age-old wisdom embraced by conservatives remains as true as ever: Before you fix society, you must first fix yourself."

-------------------------------------------------------​

I agree with this. I feel that these issues that people like Greta are concerned about are indeed issues that we should be concerned with, however, the Bible way is the correct way. People should be concerned about *moral improvement* and *character development*. Character education has all but disappeared from schools and this is creating a void or chasm in society which is in effect, being filled with the distraction of social issues like climate change. Children are not being taught to focus on their flaws but rather social issues. This is why I view people like Greta and her followers with skepticism. They don't seem to see the real problem of fixing ones own character. How many of these followers, who mainly comprise of children, are disobedient to their parents? How many of them pressured their parents to take them out of school during this time so they could attend that event in Bristol? We cannot make society better without making our character better first. And the root of society's problem is sin and sinful thoughts. Until we admit this, we cannot hope to rectify the real issues that are 'destroying the earth' (Revelation 11:18). Read that verse. Yahweh cares about the earth but He knows that sin is the problem, not driving one's car to work.

In terms of global warming, evidence suggests the climate is changing but they are some things which are being ignored. What about the increase in earthquakes? Is that caused by the pollution our cars, planes and ships are expelling in to the air? **mod edit**

Feel free to discuss.

Click to expand...

Faithofchristian said:

The first mentioning of climate change came about in America was by Democrats back in 1971. As a scare tactic to get more votes by the younger generation... I was 20-21 at that time.
When climate change was first heard about..but before this no one ever heard anything about a climate change and really didn't know what climate change was.
But even then it didn't work out so great for the Democrats.

Even back then Democrats were saying the earth would end in 15 to 20 years but here we are 2020 and the earth is still here and doing just fine.
Now comes the democrats again saying the earth will end in 20 years.
It seems the only time people hear about Climate Change here in America is every 4 years during the Presidential elections and no other time.
If climate change is to be that all important why every 4 years?

Back during last summer Democrats were all keyed up about climate change once again.
But here we are in the middle of March and not one word from Democrats about climate change.
Now if climate change is to be that all important. Would it not be logical to keep speaking about climate change or hearing about climate change. Week to week.month to month and year to year..but as it is only every 4 years and only during the Presidential elections here in America....
I always found this to be rather particular how climate change was only talk about only during the Presidential elections and no other time here in America and only during the Presidential elections here in America.
If climate change is to be all that far important.
As the democrats claim it to be..Why is that???

Congress woman AOC back last summer came out with the most unethical answer about climate change.
She said cow farts has the most effect on climate change.Lol
She also said cars,trucks, train's and jet planes all should be taken away..but yet she stills flying by jet planes.Lol
But now since AOC was confronted by her still flying on jet planes and driving a car..
Now she's not saying a word about anything more about climate change..
What's up with all that What's that all about?

Click to expand...

pcarl said:

There are many that except the possibility of a relationship and as many that deny any relation.
Is There a Connection between Fracking and Earthquakes?

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Messianic Israelite said:

I was at work listening to the radio when I heard about Greta Thunberg's climate strike in Bristol which sparked a discussion among my colleagues. I however, was reminded a few weeks prior from a message I heard from my faith that included a quote from Dennis Prager. I figure that some people are sitting on the face with this whole issue of climate change but I feel Prager puts it exactly right and I'd like to quote what he said.

-------------------------------------------------------​

He says:
"The difference between Right and Left addressed in this column concerns a fundamentally different method that each utilizes in order to improve society. Conservatives believe that the way to a better world is almost always through moral improvement of the individual — by each person doing battle with his own moral defects. The Left, on the other hand, believes that the way to a better world is almost always through doing battle with society’s moral defects (real and/or as perceived by the Left). Thus, in America, the Left defines the good person as the one who fights the sexism, racism, intolerance, xenophobia, homophobia, Islamophobia and other evils that the Left believes permeate American society.

That is one reason those on the left are more preoccupied with politics than those on the right. A simple example should make this point clear. Whenever the term “activist” or “social activist” or “organizer” is used, one infers that the term refers to someone on the Left.

One consequence of this difference is that conservatives believe that good is achieved far more gradually than liberals do. The process of making a better world is largely a one-by-one-by-one effort. And it must be redone in every single generation. The noblest generation ever born still has to teach its children how to battle their natures. If it doesn’t, even the best society will begin to rapidly devolve, which is exactly what conservatives believe has been happening to America since the end of World War II.

The Left does not focus on individual character development. Rather, it has always and everywhere focused on social revolution. The most revealing statement of then-presidential candidate Barack Obama, the most committed leftist ever elected president of the United States, was made just days before the 2008 election: “We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America,” he told a large rapturous audience....But the age-old wisdom embraced by conservatives remains as true as ever: Before you fix society, you must first fix yourself."

-------------------------------------------------------​

I agree with this. I feel that these issues that people like Greta are concerned about are indeed issues that we should be concerned with, however, the Bible way is the correct way. People should be concerned about *moral improvement* and *character development*. Character education has all but disappeared from schools and this is creating a void or chasm in society which is in effect, being filled with the distraction of social issues like climate change. Children are not being taught to focus on their flaws but rather social issues. This is why I view people like Greta and her followers with skepticism. They don't seem to see the real problem of fixing ones own character. How many of these followers, who mainly comprise of children, are disobedient to their parents? How many of them pressured their parents to take them out of school during this time so they could attend that event in Bristol? We cannot make society better without making our character better first. And the root of society's problem is sin and sinful thoughts. Until we admit this, we cannot hope to rectify the real issues that are 'destroying the earth' (Revelation 11:18). Read that verse. Yahweh cares about the earth but He knows that sin is the problem, not driving one's car to work.

In terms of global warming, evidence suggests the climate is changing but they are some things which are being ignored. What about the increase in earthquakes? Is that caused by the pollution our cars, planes and ships are expelling in to the air? **mod edit**

Feel free to discuss.

Click to expand...

oldbadger said:

This your one example of science failure?
This the reason why you pretend not to listen to science?
Because you wanted to burn yet more oil?

Your home and life is filled to the brink with scientific discovery. And yet, when you you don't like predictions that don't suit you you go in to denial?

Climate change is like a sickness virus. Neither of them give a hoot what you think. But thank goodness that the world is waking up....... you can rest easy...... sleep on.

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metis said:

It's truly a shame that you are grossly politicizing in a highly partisan manner that which is clearly happening, and this shouldn't be a left/right thingy. Maybe actually check out the real science sources versus those pushing political agendas. Even the Wiki articles on "climate change" and "global warming" are generally spot on, plus they include links to actual science sources.

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shmogie said:

Wow, the YOU statements just spew forth.

Once again, it isn't about the issue, it is about me, and your pitiful attempt to characterize what I think and believe.

Your response is childish.

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oldbadger said:

Says You.

Your only attempt to show science failure was in fact a good example of economic success. Folks didn't want cars that needed a gallon to go ten miles.

Now that was a childish attempt by you, but let's not talk down the kids, after all, little Greta has attracted more attention to her cause for the world's ecology in a day than you could gain, ,,,,, ever. True?

Not bad, for a child.

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exchemist said:

I find your views on Greta Thunberg badly misguided.

Working on individual character improvement will do nothing - at all - to solve what is a pressing physical problem for the human race. Thunberg may express herself in moral terms, but the issue she wants society to address is a matter of hard science, not morality. Arguing that we cannot do anything about climate change until we have fixed our individual moral faults is a complacent recipe for death, famine, war and pestilence.

I also find, not wholly to my surprise, that you have some wrong ideas when it comes to other aspects of earth science. There is no "increase in earthquakes". Earthquakes are the result of tectonic processes in the Earth that have gone on (according to the geological evidence) for millions of years. More here: Is Earthquake Activity Increasing?

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pcarl said:

There is a relation between earthquakes and fracking.

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