Except for the State of Israel, the whole world rests on the day of the sun, Sunday. That is the day that the beast with two horns like a lamb, Constantine, wrote his 321 AD law honoring his sun god, Sol Invictus, on Sunday, and no one could buy of sell on that day. This to fulfill Revelation 13, for by honoring the "beast"/Constantine, one honors the dragon/devil/sun god, who has given his authority to the beast (Revelation 13:4).
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The Lord's Day, is it really Sunday?
- Thread starter 3rdAngel
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Except for the State of Israel, the whole world rests on the day of the sun, Sunday. That is the day that the beast with two horns like a lamb, Constantine, wrote his 321 AD law honoring his sun god, Sol Invictus, on Sunday, and no one could buy of sell on that day. This to fulfill Revelation 13, for by honoring the "beast"/Constantine, one honors the dragon/devil/sun god, who has given his authority to the beast (Revelation 13:4).
Muffled
Jesus in me
No that is not the Sabbath day. Go ask the JEWS when the Sabbath starts they are the ones who have been keeping it unbroken for 1000's of years already.
I believe they keep a tradition. I follow a living God.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I don't read anything that is too long.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I know what I am doing: what Jesus wants me to do and that is restful as opposed to those who think they have to figure out everything from a book.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
3rd Angel, you wrote 7 posts in succession, with what I counted as 144 Bible references, and you expect me to look through each one! I read each post but I have responded to those passages that I believe get to the heart of the differences between us.
If you would like to tell me what you think lies at the heart of the sabbath day obligation, then I am happy to reply. But, please, keep the references down to no more than ten for each post (and I will do the same), and give me the chance to respond!
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
To make sense of life, we each have to find our Rock. I know that I have found my Rock in Jesus Christ. Like a rock thrown in water, the ripples move out from the centre. Each ripple is for me a step of faith.
Jesus said that 'scripture cannot be broken', authoritatively telling us that all the Bible is inspired and intimately connected, much like a tapestry.
From what you say, you care little for faith in Christ. What, then, is your Rock?
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
If I may add my opinion, the heart of the matter is to remember the day God rested from six days of creating the universe. If anyone wants to remember the days Jesus rose from the grave, that is great. If anyone wants to remember his grandma's birthday, that is also great. But God wants people to remember the day He rested. And that was the seventh day.
Yeshua never said "all the Bible is inspired". He said the "scriptures" cannot be broken. He was referring to the OT, the law and the prophets. With regards to the NT, whose canon came about in 367 AD, he warned about the coming false prophets, and that you would know them by their fruits. About 2/3 of the NT is Pauline based, written well after 30 AD. As for "faith" in "Christ". Most "Christians" think they are saved by believing in the message of the false prophet Paul, which is the gospel of Grace, or the gospel of the cross. None of them are saved from death according to the OT (Jeremiah 31:30) and according to common observation. Yeshua said the one who is saved is the one who endures to the end, and that "saved" refers to being "saved" from dying during the great tribulation. For those who do not come out of "her", the daughters of Babylon, the "Christian" church, it is stated that they will "receive of 'her' plagues (Revelation 18:4). If you want to understand the "Word", the bread of life, you have to take out the leaven, which is the hypocrisy of the Pharisees. The bread of the last supper was bread without leaven. A little leaven will ruin the whole loaf. You might want to take off your colored glasses and find out what Yeshua actually said. While your foundation of sand may appear to be holding you up, sand will not hold up to rain and floods.
I think the Sabbath was a sign between God and his people. If the foreigner wants to worship on God's mountain, then they will have to keep the Sabbath (Isaiah 56:5-6). If they want to worship the dragon, then the day of the sun, would be a more appropriate time.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
I believe not doing what God's Word says is not following the living God.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Well those posts were a detailed response to your posts section by section and scripture by scripture. I took the time in responding to your post out of respect and love for you. The scriptures references provided are their as evidence to what has been shared with you and shows what lies at the heart of the Sabbath day obligation of our love to God. There was or is no hurry to read or to respond. I hope you can consider them as a faithful Barean.
May you receive God's Word and be blessed.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
The reason that the discussion had to broaden out from man's weekly sabbath to God's seventh day of rest is that the two are not the same!
It clearly states in scripture that a day with the Lord 'is as a thousand years' [2 Peter 3:8]. A day with man is 24 hours, or thereabouts.
The question is, therefore, not solely about man's weekly sabbath under the law, but what it means to rest on the Lord's sanctified day. For if Genesis 1-2:3 is a prologue to the whole Bible, which I understand it to be, then each day of Genesis is 'as a thousand years', giving an overall plan of scripture.
The law acts as a type, of which Christ is the fulfilment. The weekly sabbath is a picture of the rest that Christians find in Christ, now as they abide in Him, and eternally following His return.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
Since Paul was called by Jesus Christ, your criticism of Paul is unfounded.
What this again demonstrates is that without the Holy Spirit as the guiding force behind all scripture, there can be no assurance of truth. Those who have received Christ's Spirit through baptism understand these things. Christ came to give believers a baptism in His Spirit, and it was Christ's promise that the Spirit would lead born again believers into 'all truth' [John 16:13]
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Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
I did read the posts, and I have logged all the points that you made.
Here are a few of the points on which I disagree with your interpretation of scripture.
1. Genesis 2:3 is not a commandment for men to keep the seventh day of each week as a day of rest. It was God's rest, not man's.
2. The covenant of law, given to Moses and Israel, and including the Ten Commandments written by God's own finger, were not in force until Moses. Any commandments given before Moses were commandments for specific individuals. This is supported by Jewish tradition.
3. The absence of any record of obligatory weekly sabbath adherence between Adam and Moses, and now in the Gentile Church, confirm to me that faith and grace are not of law.
3. The distinction that you claim exists between the Ten Commandments, as written by God, and the law of Moses, is, to my understanding, a false distinction. Moses was a prophet, and the words given to Moses were as much from God as the words written on the stone tables. One reason that the stone tables are placed in the Ark of the Covenant is because they summarise and legitimise the covenant made by God with Israel. They form God's signature on the agreement, the marriage contract between the two.
4. Any claim to be keeping faith by keeping the Law is a failure to understand the new covenant which was bought by the blood of Christ. He paid the price for sin, and has given us a better covenant that the covenant made with Moses. His righteousness can become ours, if we will allow His SPIRIT OF LOVE to be our guide and walk in life.
Hope this helps!
May His grace become real to you, too.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
The scripture saying a day with the Lord is as a thousand years has nothing to do with God's 4th Commandments seventh day Sabbath. God's rest is in the SEVENTH DAY as shown in HEBREWS 4:1-5 and GENESIS 2:1-3 that God made for all mankind *MARK 2:27-28 and commands His people in the 4th commandment of the 10 commandments to keep as a Holy day of rest *EXODUS 20:8-11. The day that God sanctified as a day of rest for mankind according to the scriptures is the SEVENTH DAY *GENESIS 2:1-3; EXODUS 20:10.
It's origin is in creation before sin and before the fall of mankind when mankind was in perfect harmony with God and walked with God before any plan of salvation and it was a part of a finished work so it cannot be a shadow of salvation because when it was made there was no need of salvation so your claims in this post of a type is unfounded and is not biblical.
God’s 4th COMMANDMENT is one of the 10 commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOEUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. If we KNOWINGLY break any one of God’s 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. God’s 4th Commandment is the ONLY commandment that is a MEMORIAL of creation and a call to worship GOD as the creator of heaven and earth. Nearly all mankind has forgotten God’s 4th commandment.
There is not one scripture in all of God’s WORD that says God’s 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY day.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Your confused my dear friend. GENESIS 2:1-3 is when the SABBATH was made. It is the origin of the SABBATH that God made for all mankind that JESUS is the LORD of *MARK 2:27-28 and commands His people to keep as a holy day *EXODUS 20:8-11. God did not rest, set apart the seventh day and made it a holy day of rest for himself. The scriptures say that he made it for mankind MARK 2:27. Adam and Eve were created on the sixth day of creation *GENESIS 1:26-29 and the SABBATH was created for all mankind on the SEVENTH DAY of the creation week as a part of the finished work of creation.
This is an unfounded claim that is not biblical as shown in an earlier post through the scriptures that before the WRITTEN WORD of GOD there was the SPOKEN WORD of GOD * GENESIS 3:1-3; 9; 11-19 8:15; 9:8; 24:7; 31:11 etc).
God said of Abraham that ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE AND KEPT MY CHARGE, MAY COMMANDMENTS, MY STATUTES AND MY LAWS. The HEBREW word used for laws is TORAH. So, it is very clear that the SPOKEN WORD of GOD included God’s TORAH. The TORAH includes all God's LAWS of the OLD COVENANT from God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and the SHADOW laws for remission of sin (burn't offerings) if God's LAW was broken.
If they had no law BEFORE the written WORD of GOD then they would have no knowledge of what sin is. If they did not know what sin was there would have been no need of sin offerings. Yet here we also see in GENESIS 22:2-7 that it was a regular practice for Abraham and his family to offer burnt offerings for sin *LEVITICUS 1:4. So before Mt Sinai God’s people had the SPOKEN Word of God after slavery to the Egyptians at Mt Sinai they received the WRITTEN Word of God but even before this they knew about God's SABBATH as shown in EXODUS 16. All through time God’s people had a knowledge of what sin (breaking God's Law) was and what to do if sin was committed.
Some more examples...
The purpose of God's LAW (10 Commandments) is to give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 and if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. Sin therefore is the transgression of God's law *1 JOHN 3:4
Mankind was destroyed by a flood because of sin (Genesis 6:5-7; Matthew 15:19). Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of sin
Jacob knew about SIN (breaking God's LAW) BEFORE Mt Sinia when he complained to Laben when he left with his daughters (Genesis 31:36).
When Potiphar’s wife came to Joseph with the aim of committing adultery, Joseph knew it was sin and protested saying how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God? (Genesis 39:9).
There was many examples of sin (breaking God's Law) in the old testament scriptures before Mt Sinai...
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GENESIS 13:13, But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.
GENESIS 18:20, And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous
GENESIS 4:7 If you do well, shall you not be accepted? and if you do not well, sin lies at the door. And to you shall be his desire, and you shall rule over him.
GENESIS 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
GENESIS 20:9 Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said to him, What have you done to us? and what have I offended you, that you have brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? you have done deeds to me that ought not to be done.
GENESIS 31:36 And Jacob was wroth, and strived with Laban: and Jacob answered and said to Laban, What is my trespass? what is my sin, that you have so hotly pursued after me?
GENESIS 39:9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither has he kept back any thing from me but you, because you are his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?
GENESIS 42:22 And Reuben answered them, saying, Spoke I not to you, saying, Do not sin against the child; and you would not hear? therefore, behold, also his blood is required.
GENESIS 50:17 So shall you say to Joseph, Forgive, I pray you now, the trespass of your brothers, and their sin; for they did to you evil: and now, we pray you, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of your father. And Joseph wept when they spoke to him.
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to many more examples but we will stop here...
Addressed above already. You have Sabbath observance at creation which God created on the SEVENTH DAY for all mankind *GENESIS 2:1-3. The scriptures say that he made it for mankind MARK 2:27. Adam and Eve were created on the sixth day of creation *GENESIS 1:26-29 and the SABBATH was created for all mankind on the SEVENTH DAY of the creation week as a part of the finished work of creation.
Nonsense. No one show faith by not believing and following what Gods Word says. I asked you are question some time ago. Who has faith the one that believes and does what God's Word says or the one that hears God's Word but does not do what God's Word says? I suggest you read HEBREWS 11 and JAMES 2:18-20; 26. Let's get this straight. We are only saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith that works by LOVE. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the NEW COVENANT promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.
I am sorry my friend consider your actions, as I believe God's Word disagrees with you. In times of ignorance God does not hold us accountable to sin until we receieve a knowledge of the truth of God's Word *ACTS 17:30-31. Once we have been given a knowledge of the truth if God's Word and we reject God's Word to continue in sin I believe the scriptures teach there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgment to come *HEBREWS 10:26-39. The question is my friend I believe your at a crossroad. What will you do? I would pray and seek God through his Word and see if these things be true.
May you receive God's Word and be blessed ignoring it does not make it disappear.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
continued....
Sin is the transgression of God's Law *1 John 3:4 and through the law is the knowledge of sin *Romans 3:20. We do not know what sin is without the law *Romans 7:7 and if we break any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11.
For example, Genesis 13:13 tells us that “the men of Sodom were exceedingly wicked and sinful against the Lord.” Since sin is violating God’s law, the people of Sodom could not have been punished for being wicked and sinful if no law condemned what they were doing. We must conclude, therefore, that God had already made available the knowledge of what is sinful.
Here is a clear example. Genesis 20:3-9 and Genesis 39:7-9 describe adultery as “a great sin” and a “sin against God.” Adultery breaks the Seventh Commandment.
In Genesis 3:6-17, God punishes Adam and Eve for their coveting and stealing—breaking the Tenth and Eighth Commandments. They also dishonored Him as their parent, violating the Fifth Commandment.
In Genesis 4:9-12, God punishes Cain for murder and lying—violations of the Sixth and Ninth Commandments.
In Exodus 16:4, several days to several weeks before God established His covenant with the Israelites at Mt. Sinai, we find God giving them a test to see “whether they will walk in My law or not.” His test involved whether they would rest on the seventh-day Sabbath as He commanded in the Fourth Commandment of that law—with which they were at least partly familiar. The seventh day had been hallowed—set aside as holy by God—from the time of Adam and Eve (Genesis 2:1-3).
God’s reaction to their disobedience is revealing. He exclaims, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?” (Exodus 16:28). God clearly speaks of both His “commandments and … laws” as already existing and in force well before He listed the Ten Commandments verbally at Mt. Sinai, as described four chapters later! Therefore, the Ten Commandments were only codified—written in stone as part of a formal covenant—at Mt. Sinai. Scripture clearly shows that they existed and were in force well before then.
This is stated explicitly in Genesis 26:5, where God tells Isaac that He blessed his father Abraham “because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” This event took place centuries before the covenant at Mt. Sinai, centuries before Moses and two generations before Judah, head of the tribe that much later would become known as the Jews, was born!
There is not one scripture in all of God’s WORD that says God’s 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY day.
If we KNOWINGLY break any one of God’s 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. God’s 4th Commandment is the ONLY commandment that is a MEMORIAL of creation and a call to worship GOD as the creator of heaven and earth. Nearly all mankind has forgotten God’s 4th commandment.
The question we must all ask ourselves is who do we believe and follow; God or the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God? JESUS says all those who knowingly follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not following God *Matthew 15:2-9
Sin is the transgression of God's Law *1 John 3:4 and through the law is the knowledge of sin *Romans 3:20. We do not know what sin is without the law *Romans 7:7 and if we break any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11.
For example, Genesis 13:13 tells us that “the men of Sodom were exceedingly wicked and sinful against the Lord.” Since sin is violating God’s law, the people of Sodom could not have been punished for being wicked and sinful if no law condemned what they were doing. We must conclude, therefore, that God had already made available the knowledge of what is sinful.
Here is a clear example. Genesis 20:3-9 and Genesis 39:7-9 describe adultery as “a great sin” and a “sin against God.” Adultery breaks the Seventh Commandment.
In Genesis 3:6-17, God punishes Adam and Eve for their coveting and stealing—breaking the Tenth and Eighth Commandments. They also dishonored Him as their parent, violating the Fifth Commandment.
In Genesis 4:9-12, God punishes Cain for murder and lying—violations of the Sixth and Ninth Commandments.
In Exodus 16:4, several days to several weeks before God established His covenant with the Israelites at Mt. Sinai, we find God giving them a test to see “whether they will walk in My law or not.” His test involved whether they would rest on the seventh-day Sabbath as He commanded in the Fourth Commandment of that law—with which they were at least partly familiar. The seventh day had been hallowed—set aside as holy by God—from the time of Adam and Eve (Genesis 2:1-3).
God’s reaction to their disobedience is revealing. He exclaims, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?” (Exodus 16:28). God clearly speaks of both His “commandments and … laws” as already existing and in force well before He listed the Ten Commandments verbally at Mt. Sinai, as described four chapters later! Therefore, the Ten Commandments were only codified—written in stone as part of a formal covenant—at Mt. Sinai. Scripture clearly shows that they existed and were in force well before then.
This is stated explicitly in Genesis 26:5, where God tells Isaac that He blessed his father Abraham “because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” This event took place centuries before the covenant at Mt. Sinai, centuries before Moses and two generations before Judah, head of the tribe that much later would become known as the Jews, was born!
There is not one scripture in all of God’s WORD that says God’s 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY day.
If we KNOWINGLY break any one of God’s 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. God’s 4th Commandment is the ONLY commandment that is a MEMORIAL of creation and a call to worship GOD as the creator of heaven and earth. Nearly all mankind has forgotten God’s 4th commandment.
The question we must all ask ourselves is who do we believe and follow; God or the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God? JESUS says all those who knowingly follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not following God *Matthew 15:2-9
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Paul was called by "Jesus" according to Paul and Paul's associates. Self witnessing is "not true" (John 5:31). With respect to the prophets, king Saul was called by God, as was Judas Iscariot (Zechariah 11:12-13). King Saul apparently harbored a unclean spirit, and his desire was to kill king David. As for "believers" lead to the truth, keep in mind that the demons "believe", yet they have need to tremble. As for the truth, Yeshua was the truth/Word/Way made flesh, yet you have apparently contaminated the bread of life with the leaven of the Pharisee.
With the anointing of the Spirit, one does not need any teacher, including Paul, for the Spirit will bring to mind the testimony of Yeshua. (1 John 2:27).
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
2 Peter 3:8 has nothing to do with the weekly sabbath but it has everything to do with Genesis 2:3. God's 4th commandment is not applicable until after it is given by God at Mount Sinai. The Ten Commandments form the core of the COVENANT made with Israel.
Hebrews 4:1-5 is about God's rest, not the weekly sabbath.
Mark 2:27-28 IS about the weekly sabbath and states that Jesus Christ is Lord of the Sabbath. It is in HIM that we find our true rest.
James 2:10,11 is about those 'who keep the whole law'. Under grace we do not 'keep the whole law'. We keep the law of the Spirit, which is LOVE. That's why it says in James 2:13, 'mercy rejoiceth against judgment'.
It's true that no scripture tells us that God's law is abolished because Jesus said, 'Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.'
Galatians 5:14. 'For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.'
Romans 13:8-10.'Owe to no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.'
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.'
And, tell me, where do you find the scripture that the Ten Commandments gives us knowledge of good and evil? If this were the case, then God's original commandment, not to eat of the fruit of the tree (of the knowledge of good and evil), is strange indeed. Was it not Satan that encouraged the eating of this fruit? Yet, according to you, Satan was encouraging knowledge of the Ten Commandments. Is it the Ten Commandments that makes one wise? Is it the Ten Commandments that make us self-sufficient and not God-sufficient? If that's the case, then it's knowledge of the Ten Commandments that caused Adam and Eve to lose their fellowship. So, what you're saying is that knowledge of the Ten Commandments led to the original sin! I'd never thought of Eve's temptation like that before. Even more reason to walk by faith and not under law!
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