CG Didymus
Veteran Member
What do you think of the prophecies that Baha'is say their prophet, actually their two prophets have supposedly fulfilled? A major one is the prophecy from Daniel that William Miller used to get to the year 1844.
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Is God or Religious Truth Real?
- Thread starter Unity of Mankind
- Start date
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Indeed, I call them angels.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I was speaking very generally.... I meant that there is only one religion of God, even though there are various chapters of that religion.
Even though Baha'is speak of nine major religions, that does not mean we do not believe there were not other minor religions. Logically speaking, none of those religions need to FIT with what the Baha'i Faith teaches because they were revealed long before the Baha'i Faith was revealed.
Unity of Mankind
Member
One of the Hidden Words of Baha'u'llah points out an important principle regarding unconditional love as follows: "O SON OF BEING! Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant." So what I understand from this is that despite unconditional love from God without individual human love for God it is impossible for a connection to take place.
In regard to your question about "Are the messengers really teaching Unconditional Love when they teach people there are conditions that must be met or they fry?" I don't take that literally but understand it may have been a method or tool of reaching primitive man to warn of danger. Since humankind has evolved greatly since then toward adulthood messengers such as Baha'u'llah can now speak plainly and be understood. So I guess you could liken it to parenting?
So without applying the principle of justice how do you propose the innocent will be protected? Why would you misconstrue that as an excuse or payback? In civilized society if anyone understands they can commit murder, for example, and they're not be any consequences for it that I would call creating the law of the jungle. What would you call it? So I don't think it is an either or question of "Punishment or solving the problems" as you put it. Punishment in the context of justice is in fact a necessary requirement for problem solving.
However, I also believe an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. If people were brought up to respect others or have in them instilled a principled way of life that also would be part of problem solving. In Judaism there are Proverbs, in Christianity there are the Beatitudes, and in Baha'i there are the Hidden Words both in Arabic and Persian. So from my perspective, without the bountiful bestowals of religion humankind would be doomed to reap a bitter harvest indeed!
As for the rest of your post I see a lot of wandering and I am not going down that rabbit hole. When it comes to religion it appears to me that all you see are the mistakes people have made in the various great religions of the world insofar as straying from what was originally meant or intended. That is the rationale for the Baha'i principle of progressive revelations from God through Prophets which as long as humankind exists will continue forever.
Lastly, I consider it a straw man view of me from you that I only see bad things going on in the world today. In reality I see both good and bad things going on in the world today. My personal view is that what is good always inevitably triumph's over evil. Evil has no reality in and of itself but is rather a negation or absence of what is good and wholesome. In such a vacuum evil acts do indeed occur!
Where we have contrasting views, however, is that you consider individuals can discover God directly on their own without any help from God through His Mediators or Prophets. Metaphorically speaking your view would be like children not requiring any parenting and that is what I clearly see.
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PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
You are blessed. My mind isn't so still. I guess I have to get back to regular meditation early in the morning (the only time I can do that). There was a time when I more intensively felt connection to soul (or God's presence). My mind wasn't still then but I was immersed in a rapture that I would best describe as a brainstorm...
Most people in these days are very busy. Maybe there are still ways to connect with the center of being. If we open our heart we can sense every moment there are impulses/inspirations gently offering direction to love. I guess if one freely detaches from ego/self and lets be filled with this love in the present moment then a thought, move, word, act or duty, no matter how small and simple, is a connection with the center of soul.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
What I see is that most people are attached to the things of this world and everything that is associated with them, and they live for them, paying only lip service to God. Most people have no interest in spiritual things. That is what I see in the United States where I live. Maybe it is different in other countries. It is also true that most people are selfish, but that goes along with being worldly.
It is not as if everyone has not been told. I am sorry if I sound preachy but I take what Jesus said very seriously, and my religion has the same teachings. I believe that the reason Jesus came into the world and died on the cross was to reveal God and give us His teachings, not to remove original sin, which I do not even believe ever existed.
John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
The gospel message had reached everyone in the world by the mid-1800s. Most people just do not take it seriously. If they did the world would not have the problems we see which are getting worse at an ever-increasing rate.
I do not think the answer if for people to meditate and try to connect with God, I think the answer is for people to connect with each other and try to make this world a better place. That does not mean I am against prayer and meditation; I think that is very beneficial and necessary for the individual spiritual growth, but it won't solve the world's problems.
Unity of Mankind
Member
My argument to you about insane religions is that you fail to separate followers of past religions veering off the Original Message of the Founders of the various religions you brand as insane. An example? The Christian Church establishing a doctrine of Original Sin based on the Genesis story in the Old Testament which is not only unjust but nonsensical as well. That is why the One religion of God is renewed by future Prophets, Messengers, or as Baha'is have put it, Manifestations of God.
Do you really think reference to God made in the US Constitution occurred in a vacuum without religion? Its reference point is Judaism and Christianity which according to the Baha'i Faith originated from God. Additionally, essential principles recorded in the New Testament from Jesus are in perfect agreement with the very same principles enunciated by Baha'u'llah. The only difference between these religions and the Baha'i Faith is its special mission to bring about the unity and oneness of mankind as was predicted by Jesus in the New Testament of the Bible.
In playing devils advocate, if God exists do you really think all individual people need do to discover truth from God is to discover it directly for themselves? How could any society or civilization be based on such an absurd notion? Obviously, each claimed individual message would only create pandemonium and disunity, upon disunity, upon disunity! The fact that disunity occurred in established religions is no argument for invalidating them because human beings in their spiritual evolution make mistakes and are therefore corrected and further enlightened by future Prophets according to the new circumstances of the time.
So what precisely is your argument the world would be better off without any religion at all? Would you point to yourself as a guide for the world to be led out of the wilderness of disunity and strife?
I made the choice not to address each of your rambling smears and efforts in this post to discredit the validity of religion in general. As far as I can tell the only reason I have been responding to your posts at all is for other people to read as you are apparently not amenable to reason and common sense.
Where is your proof that God has communicated anything to you? Contrast that with the fact that there is plenty of evidence Baha'u'llah's life and teachings did not come from himself but from a real God. Even Baha'u'llah's banishment from fortified city to fortified city from Persia which ended to the dreaded prison city of Akka fulfilled prophecies in the Old Testament of the Bible. Also, both Baha'u'llah and His predecessor Prophet, the Bab, who announced the soon to be manifested Prophet greater than himself, fulfilled Islamic prophecies. There is also the fact that the Baha'i Faith has been established all over the world.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Well, I was taught that the word "angel" mean "messenger". Christians believe them to be spirit beings. How about Baha'is, who are "angels", are they sent from God, and are they spirit beings?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Micah 7 in the NIV says it differently.
(S)he who said to me, “Where is the LORD your God?” My eyes will see her downfall; even now she will be trampled underfoot like mire in the streets.
11 The day for building your walls will come, the day for extending your boundaries.
12 In that day people will come to you from Assyria and the cities of Egypt, even from Egypt to the Euphrates and from sea to sea and from mountain to mountain.
13 The earth will become desolate because of its inhabitants, as the result of their deeds.
So it is easy to find a translation that has verses that can be made into a prophecy. I don't know what Micah 7 is talking about or what it is saying in Hebrew. But I doubt greatly the Christians that made the KJV made a perfect translation. So is it "fortified cities" or "cities of Egypt"? If it is Egypt, then instead of proof... your prophecy goes poof.11 The day for building your walls will come, the day for extending your boundaries.
12 In that day people will come to you from Assyria and the cities of Egypt, even from Egypt to the Euphrates and from sea to sea and from mountain to mountain.
13 The earth will become desolate because of its inhabitants, as the result of their deeds.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
One of the Hidden Words of Baha'u'llah points out an important principle regarding unconditional love as follows: "O SON OF BEING! Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant." So what I understand from this is that despite unconditional love from God without individual human love for God it is impossible for a connection to take place.
In regard to your question about "Are the messengers really teaching Unconditional Love when they teach people there are conditions that must be met or they fry?" I don't take that literally but understand it may have been a method or tool of reaching primitive man to warn of danger. Since humankind has evolved greatly since then toward adulthood messengers such as Baha'u'llah can now speak plainly and be understood. So I guess you could liken it to parenting?
So without applying the principle of justice how do you propose the innocent will be protected? Why would you misconstrue that as an excuse or payback? In civilized society if anyone understands they can commit murder, for example, and they're not be any consequences for it that I would call creating the law of the jungle. What would you call it? So I don't think it is an either or question of "Punishment or solving the problems" as you put it. Punishment in the context of justice is in fact a necessary requirement for problem solving.
However, I also believe an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. If people were brought up to respect others or have in them instilled a principled way of life that also would be part of problem solving. In Judaism there are Proverbs, in Christianity there are the Beatitudes, and in Baha'i there are the Hidden Words both in Arabic and Persian. So from my perspective, without the bountiful bestowals of religion humankind would be doomed to reap a bitter harvest indeed!
As for the rest of your post I see a lot of wandering and I am not going down that rabbit hole. When it comes to religion it appears to me that all you see are the mistakes people have made in the various great religions of the world insofar as straying from what was originally meant or intended. That is the rationale for the Baha'i principle of progressive revelations from God through Prophets which as long as humankind exists will continue forever.
Lastly, I consider it a straw man view of me from you that I only see bad things going on in the world today. In reality I see both good and bad things going on in the world today. My personal view is that what is good always inevitably triumph's over evil. Evil has no reality in and of itself but is rather a negation or absence of what is good and wholesome. In such a vacuum evil acts do indeed occur!
Where we have contrasting views, however, is that you consider individuals can discover God directly on their own without any help from God through His Mediators or Prophets. Metaphorically speaking your view would be like children not requiring any parenting and that is what I clearly see.
So your messengers aren't teaching Unconditional Love. Sadly, few parents are either.
Society will protect people. On the other hand, if they would fix the problems rather than payback and threats, few would need any protection at all.
The threat of punishment along with the preaching from all those holy books has not solved the problem. Living the lessons will in time.
Sad that it takes so much adversity to open the eyes and lead people to take the effort needed to Discover all those answers. Until that day, payback to your hearts content. It will do you no good. It will return to teach you what you are doing.
Using pain in an attempt to alter the actions of others is not a necessity to solving problems. Think! What are you teaching with this method? Certainly not goodness. Control, intimidation, coercing, payback and such are the tools that create problems. One must let go of all those petty things so that one does not teach it to others.
Yes, holy books do teach some good things, on the other hand people claim they come from God which they do not. I attempt to point out those petty things holy books value in an attempt to show that holy book does not come from God.
God needs no middle men. So many people attempt to speak for God based on what they believe or on the beliefs of other people. If one really wanted to Discover God, one would not follow blindly accepting beliefs. With this in mind, what are all those religious people and so called prophets doing? It certainly isn't Discovering God.
I have found no religion that really understands God. Those prophets certainly don't. Religion is a catalyst that brings so many of mankind's problems to the surface so they can be dealt with. When one thinks they have God's blessing they can justify anything like blaming, judging, condemning, controlling, coercing, intimidating, hating,attempting to alter the actions of others by inflicting pain, payback, punishing, using guilt or shaming, putting conditions on love, and the list goes on and on.
People have been valuing those petty things so long they do not know they are doing them or they convinced themselves these petty things are right. How can one teach these things and claim to be speaking for God??
That's what I see. It's very clear!!
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It is my understanding that angels are holy souls who are consumed with the fire of the love of God, and angels can exist in the flesh on earth or in the spirit in heaven. I can send you more quotes from Gleanings that refer to angels and how God sends them, but the quote below is the best one that I know of that describes what angels actually are.
“And now, concerning His words: “And He shall send His angels….” By “angels” is meant those who, reinforced by the power of the spirit, have consumed, with the fire of the love of God, all human traits and limitations, and have clothed themselves with the attributes of the most exalted Beings and of the Cherubim. That holy man, Ṣádiq, 37 in his eulogy of the Cherubim, saith: “There stand a company of our fellow-Shí’ihs behind the Throne.” Divers and manifold are the interpretations of the words “behind the Throne.” In one sense, they indicate that no true Shí’ihs exist. Even as he hath said in another passage: “A true believer is likened unto the philosopher’s stone.” Addressing subsequently his listener, he saith: “Hast thou ever seen the philosopher’s stone?” Reflect, how this symbolic language, more eloquent than any speech, however direct, testifieth to the non-existence of a true believer. Such is the testimony of Ṣádiq. And now consider, how unfair and numerous are those who, although they themselves have failed to inhale the fragrance of belief, have condemned as infidels those by whose word belief itself is recognized and established.
And now, inasmuch as these holy beings have sanctified themselves from every human limitation, have become endowed with the attributes of the spiritual, and have been adorned with the noble traits of the blessed, they therefore have been designated as “angels.” Such is the meaning of these verses, every word of which hath been expounded by the aid of the most lucid texts, the most convincing arguments, and the best established evidences.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 78-80
And now, inasmuch as these holy beings have sanctified themselves from every human limitation, have become endowed with the attributes of the spiritual, and have been adorned with the noble traits of the blessed, they therefore have been designated as “angels.” Such is the meaning of these verses, every word of which hath been expounded by the aid of the most lucid texts, the most convincing arguments, and the best established evidences.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 78-80
The article below says that "The cherubim serve the purpose of magnifying the holiness and power of God. This is one of their main responsibilities throughout the Bible" So really, the Baha'is believe the same as the Christians about what angels are.
Question: "What are cherubim? Are cherubs angels?"
Answer: Cherubim/cherubs are angelic beings involved in the worship and praise of God. The cherubim are first mentioned in the Bible in Genesis 3:24, “After He drove the man out, He placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.” Prior to his rebellion, Satan was a cherub (Ezekiel 28:12-15). The tabernacle and temple along with their articles contained many representations of cherubim (Exodus 25:17-22; 26:1, 31; 36:8; 1 Kings 6:23-35; 7:29-36; 8:6-7; 1 Chronicles 28:18; 2 Chronicles 3:7-14; 2 Chronicles 3:10-13; 5:7-8; Hebrews 9:5).
Chapters 1 and 10 of the book of Ezekiel describe the “four living creatures” (Ezekiel 1:5) as the same beings as the cherubim (Ezekiel 10). Each had four faces—that of a man, a lion, an ox, and an eagle (Ezekiel 1:10; also 10:14)—and each had four wings. In their appearance, the cherubim “had the likeness of a man” (Ezekiel 1:5). These cherubim used two of their wings for flying and the other two for covering their bodies (Ezekiel 1:6, 11, 23). Under their wings the cherubim appeared to have the form, or likeness, of a man's hand (Ezekiel 1:8; 10:7-8, 21).
The imagery of Revelation 4:6-9 also seems to be describing cherubim. The cherubim serve the purpose of magnifying the holiness and power of God. This is one of their main responsibilities throughout the Bible. In addition to singing God's praises, they also serve as a visible reminder of the majesty and glory of God and His abiding presence with His people.
What are cherubim? Are cherubs angels? | GotQuestions.org
Answer: Cherubim/cherubs are angelic beings involved in the worship and praise of God. The cherubim are first mentioned in the Bible in Genesis 3:24, “After He drove the man out, He placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.” Prior to his rebellion, Satan was a cherub (Ezekiel 28:12-15). The tabernacle and temple along with their articles contained many representations of cherubim (Exodus 25:17-22; 26:1, 31; 36:8; 1 Kings 6:23-35; 7:29-36; 8:6-7; 1 Chronicles 28:18; 2 Chronicles 3:7-14; 2 Chronicles 3:10-13; 5:7-8; Hebrews 9:5).
Chapters 1 and 10 of the book of Ezekiel describe the “four living creatures” (Ezekiel 1:5) as the same beings as the cherubim (Ezekiel 10). Each had four faces—that of a man, a lion, an ox, and an eagle (Ezekiel 1:10; also 10:14)—and each had four wings. In their appearance, the cherubim “had the likeness of a man” (Ezekiel 1:5). These cherubim used two of their wings for flying and the other two for covering their bodies (Ezekiel 1:6, 11, 23). Under their wings the cherubim appeared to have the form, or likeness, of a man's hand (Ezekiel 1:8; 10:7-8, 21).
The imagery of Revelation 4:6-9 also seems to be describing cherubim. The cherubim serve the purpose of magnifying the holiness and power of God. This is one of their main responsibilities throughout the Bible. In addition to singing God's praises, they also serve as a visible reminder of the majesty and glory of God and His abiding presence with His people.
What are cherubim? Are cherubs angels? | GotQuestions.org
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Nothing goes “poof” but it does go “proof.”
Let’s look at those translations:
Micah 7:11-13 New International Version (NIV)
11 The day for building your walls will come, the day for extending your boundaries.
12 In that day people will come to you from Assyria and the cities of Egypt, even from Egypt to the Euphrates and from sea to sea and from mountain to mountain.
13 The earth will become desolate because of its inhabitants, as the result of their deeds.
Micah 7:11-13 King James Version (KJV)
11 In the day that thy walls are to be built, in that day shall the decree be far removed.
12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
Please note that the NIV translation says “In that day people will come to you” but in the KJV translation says “In that day also he shall come even to thee”; so that means the NIV is about people who will come to see Baha’u’llah but the KJV is about Baha’u’llah, where He will come from and where He will go to.
Whether the NIV translation is correct or the KJV translation is correct, Baha’u’llah has it covered because He went to Egypt and He went to the fortified cities, and people came to see Him in Egypt.
The Baháʼí Faith in Egypt has existed for over 100 years. The first Baháʼís arrived in 1863.[1] Baháʼu'lláh, founder of the religion, was himself briefly in Egypt in 1868 when on his way to imprisonment in ʻAkká.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahai_Faith_in_Egypt
Map of Baháʼu'lláh's banishments
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CG Didymus
Veteran Member
All we're really using is verse 12, though. What is verse 13 talking about, and what is the rest of the chapter talking about? Is it all a Messianic prophecy? If it's only verse 12, then it's hard for me to accept one verse taken out of context, so, hopefully, you can tie in the rest of the chapter.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Okay, I will try to tie it in…
Micah 7 King James Version (KJV)
7 Woe is me! for I am as when they have gathered the summer fruits, as the grapegleanings of the vintage: there is no cluster to eat: my soul desired the firstripe fruit.
2 The good man is perished out of the earth: and there is none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net.
3 That they may do evil with both hands earnestly, the prince asketh, and the judge asketh for a reward; and the great man, he uttereth his mischievous desire: so they wrap it up.
4 The best of them is as a brier: the most upright is sharper than a thorn hedge: the day of thy watchmen and thy visitation cometh; now shall be their perplexity.
5 Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom.
6 For the son dishonoureth the father, the daughter riseth up against her mother, the daughter in law against her mother in law; a man's enemies are the men of his own house.
I think that the gist of verses 1-6 is summarized in verse 2 -- The good man is perished out of the earth: and there is none upright among men – and verses 1-6 are a lead-in to the verses that come after that.
7 Therefore I will look unto the Lord; I will wait for the God of my salvation: my God will hear me.
8 Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy: when I fall, I shall arise; when I sit in darkness, the Lord shall be a light unto me.
9 I will bear the indignation of the Lord, because I have sinned against him, until he plead my cause, and execute judgment for me: he will bring me forth to the light, and I shall behold his righteousness.
10 Then she that is mine enemy shall see it, and shame shall cover her which said unto me, Where is the Lord thy God? mine eyes shall behold her: now shall she be trodden down as the mire of the streets.
Then, in verses 7-10, he says he will look to the Lord, because man has failed (which he described in verses 1-6).
7 Therefore I will look unto the Lord; I will wait for the God of my salvation: my God will hear me.
Verse 7 is a lead-in to verses 11-20, which are about the Lord, the Lord of Hosts who will come in the Person of the Messiah. Micah describes what will happen in that day. All these things happened in the days of Baha’u’llah.
11 In the day that thy walls are to be built, in that day shall the decree be far removed.
The decree was removed in 1844:
Edict of Toleration 1844
An edict of toleration is a declaration, made by a government or ruler and states, that members of a given religionwill not be persecuted for engaging in their religious practices and traditions. The edict implies tacit acceptance of the religion rather than its endorsement by the ruling power.
Edict of toleration - Wikipedia
Verse 12 describes where the Messiah will come from and go to:
12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
Verses 13-20 describe what the land would look like and what the Messiah would do.
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.
19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.
20 Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.
All of this can be tied in with what William Sears wrote in his book Thief in the Night.
Sears listed many things the Messiah would do but I am clipping out only the parts that pertain to Micah 7. In the book, Sears explained exactly how Baha’u’llah fulfilled these prophecies.
1. He would come from Assyria.
2. He would come from the fortified cities.
3. He would come from a fortress to a river.
4. He would come from sea to sea.
5. He would come from mountain to mountain.
6. The land to which he came would be desolate.
7. He would feed his flock in the midst of Mount Carmel.
8. He would work his wonders for a period equal to the days which the Jews spent coming out of Egypt.
Thief in the Night, p. 122
Now that I am discussing the prophecies of Micah, here are a few more that were fulfilled. Sears continues on…..
Frankly, I felt that a fulfillment of these prophecies would be sufficient by itself to establish the authenticity of the Messiah, for in addition to these eight prophesies, Bahá’u’lláh had also fulfilled Micah’s prophesies that the Messiah must:
1. Come as a Messenger of God and tread upon the high places of the earth.
2. Appear in the day when the children of Israel would be gathered into their own land.
3. Establish his house in the mountain.
4. Draw the people to it in a flow of love.
5. Send forth His love from that mountain.
6. Go to Babylon.
7. Withdraw from the city.
8. Dwell in the wilderness and the field.
9. Give birth in Babylon that would redeem the children of Israel.
Thief in the Night, pp. 122-123
Even if the Bible prophecies were the ONLY proof of who Baha’u’llah was, that would be enough for me, if I believed in the Bible. I do believe in the Bible so they are ample proof for me. As I said to a Christian on another thread yesterday:
I am not sure what you would consider trustworthy. I was never a Christian so my basis for belief in Baha’u’llah was the same as your basis for believing in Jesus -- His Person, His life and His mission, and the scriptures that He wrote. If I was a Christian, my basis for believing there was another Prophet/Messenger who would come after Jesus would be the promises Jesus made and what is in the OT about the Messiah to come. I would want to know if Baha’u’llah fulfilled Jesus’ promises and the OT prophecies.
The Bible prophecies and how they were fulfilled by Baha’u’llah are all outlined in this book that can be read online at your leisure: William Sears, Thief in the Night
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I think you are the first Baha'i who tied in a whole chapter. And you say you don't know much about the Bible. I can't wait to hear you do all of the Book of Revelation.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I worked hard on that one verse yesterday and I worked hard on that whole chapter today, but I learned something in the process and I saved my Word documents for recycling.
I do not really need to know the Bible to understand what and who the verses refer to, since I know how they were fulfilled by Baha'u'llah.
The Book of Revelation is another matter because it is so full of symbology. However, the principle is the same because I know who it is about. That helps a whole lot in unraveling the meaning.
ajay0
Well-Known Member
Here is an explanation on the essence of God from the Hindu perspective...
Prajnanam Brahma. (Aitareya Upanishad 3.1.3) -- "Brahman is pure consciousness."
Brahman is pure consciousness as the Vedas point out. Nirguna Brahman is pure consciousness of an impersonal nature, while God as Saguna Brahman and the jivatman or soul are pure consciousness of a personalised nature, with the Jivatman or soul in bondage due to karma. This bondage, when hacked off through spiritual exercises and meditation, results in the soul or jivatman being purified of karma and regaining its original state as pure consciousness. All the religious practices are designed to help the soul regain its original state as pure consciousness.
Paramahamsa Yogananda also states in this regard, "The word 'God' means the manifested, transcendental Being beyond creation, but existing in relation to creation. Spirit existed before God. God is the Creator of the universe, but Spirit is the Creator of God."
Here Spirit stands for Nirguna Brahman, while God stands for Saguna Brahman.
In the yogic philosophy, the Shivalinga as Saguna Brahman is considered the first form to arise when creation occurs, and also the last form before the dissolution of creation.
An oval shaped stone is worshipped as a symbol of God or Shivalingam in Shaivite temples. The Vedas and Shaivite scriptures consider the Shivalingam to a be a cosmic pillar or point of light. Another name for the Shivalingam is Jyotirlingam with Jyoti meaning light.
As per the monotheistic religious sect called the Prajapita Brahmakumaris, the form of the Shiva lingam denotes God as a point of light.
I have created a thread in this regard showing the correlation between God and light in various world religions.
Interesting correlation between God and light in major world religions...
The Prajapita Brahmakumaris associate the Shivalingam with Jehovah, Allah and Ahura Mazda of the other monotheistic religions.
The Prajapita Brahmakumaris is also the only spiritual organisation in the world run by women leaders, administrators and teachers. They have teaching centres in almost every country around the world where they teach 7 day courses on yogic philosophy and meditation free of charge.
This is also the theological stance of Dharmic monotheistic sects like Sikhism, Arya Samaj and the Prajapita Brahmakumaris.
Yes, fallible human interpretation is the reason for much of the differences between most religions at present leading to conflict and differences. Obviously truth is one, but opinions and interpretations are many.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe if Bahai's were true to the real meaning of Christianity, then everything else would fall into place as God wills.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I tried the numbers game but it didn't work. So maybe you can be more specific and I can tell you where they went wrong.
Unity of Mankind
Member
I believe that is pure vain imagination. If you believe God did not exist until being created by Spirit that would destroy any conception of the unity of God. No wonder there are atheists!
I have no knowledge of such sects. However, I consider certain sects within religions may or may not be closer to the truth. Such an example would be the Gnostic sect in Christianity being closer to the truth than the greater Orthodox Church.
Thus to my recollection, it is recorded in the New Testament Jesus testified God would send the Spirit of truth, the Holy Ghost, to bring to remembrance whatsoever He had taught. In other words, Christians would forget the real teachings of Jesus.
Also, synonymous to the Spirit of truth is that a Comforter would be sent from God in the absence of Jesus both of which pertain to the same thing. From my Baha'i perspective all Manifestations of God, or Prophets, are Comforters. So in that sense the existence of all divine religions constitute one divine process. That would include Krishna and Buddha!
Lastly, in the Baha'i Faith there is mention of the Oneness of God, the Oneness of religion, and the Oneness of humankind. I would think atheists base their conclusion there is no such thing as the existence of a real God because of justifiably seeing no practical outcome to the physical well being of humankind on earth due to the apparent conflicting remnant remains of the older religions. Were it not for the sensible explanations of religion found only in the Baha'i Faith I would completely agree with the atheists!
What atheists perhaps don't realize, however, is the connection between the process of divine religion to carry forward an ever advancing civilization in the human race. In other words, without its buttress progressive civilizations would never occur! The Baha'i Faith is merely the latest development in divine religion, a development which in like manner will continue as long as humankind exists.